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Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi (Read 12814 times)

Yadda

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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #15 - Jul 27^th, 2013 at 7:18pm

shockresist wrote on Jul 27^th, 2013 at 3:19pm:

Jesus himself asked God's help and said. "I by my own myself can do nothing".. So I rather say the GOD that Jesus prayed to is with me than his slave..

Matthew 26:39 "Jesus fell on his face and prayed to HIS GOD"

...Hebrew 5:7 he prayed and cried for GOD to hear him and give him mercy by saving him from death.

John 8:28 Jesus said "I by my own myself can do nothing"

John 14:28 Jesus said "My Father (GOD) is greater than I"

Matthew 24:36 Jesus said "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, butonly the Father."

Matthew 26:39 "Jesus fell on his face and prayed to HIS GOD"

There's hundreds upon hundreds of these showcasing Jesus is not God and depended on God, prayed to God, cried to God, etc...

Jesus Christ was a man.

The essence that is God, took the form of a man.

Matthew 26:39
And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

+++

Scripture tells us that >> the God of creation << also appeared to Abraham, as a man.

shockresist,

If i worship a man [Jesus]...

Did Abraham worship a man too ?

Because the Bible records that the LORD God appeared as a man [with two companions], to [biblical] Abraham...

Genesis 18:1
And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door,

and bowed himself toward the ground

,
3 And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:
5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.
6 And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth.
7 And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.
8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.

shockresist,

I do not believe that God is a man.

God is not a man, but scripture says that God's feet were washed by Abraham's water, and that God ate Abraham's meat, and that God appeared as a man, to Abraham.

shockresist,

If God, is God [the creator], can he manifest himself [as he pleases], within his own creation ???

The Bible [OT] says that our creator has manifested himself, many times, and in many differing forms.

And further, God [the creator] in scripture says, that we [mankind], are his created 'children'.

Deuteronomy 32:19
And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.

Isaiah 1:2
Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me.

Jeremiah 4:22
For my people is foolish, they have not known me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

Acts 17:28
For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

But shockresist, YOUR religion, ISLAM, commands you [and every moslem] to murder me [i.e. a person like myself].

And YOUR religion, ISLAM, is murdering people like me, every day.

shockresist,

Clearly, you [and all moslems] do not fear God [do not fear God's righteousness].

That, is the only conclusion that i can draw.

On your own head be it.

shockresist,

This rebuke was directed to the Jews, but it could equally apply to all moslems....

Romans 10:2
For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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shockresist

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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #16 - Jul 27^th, 2013 at 9:15pm

Yadda wrote on Jul 27^th, 2013 at 12:46pm:

Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practising one

Lord Herbert wrote on Jul 26^th, 2013 at 9:06pm:

Yadda ~ I believe it's possible for new schisms to occur amongst the Islamic congregation just as happened with Sunni, Sh'ia, Wahhabi, etc.

Check this out ... Pro-Western Muslims.

These are good people. They are sick of being tarred with the same brush as the delinquents who do the bombings and the hate-speech.

These people genuinely want to become Muslims who subscribe only to the best instructions and teachings of their faith that are acceptable to Western values.

More strength to them I say.

These people are very bravely organising a protest against the Muslim hardliners who want Sharia Law to be legalised in the UK. It takes guts and sincerity to challenge the Muslim hardliners.

They deserve our respect and good wishes.

Sorry Herbert,

IMO, these people are either, deluded, or, they are a part of a covert moslem program to deflect popular criticism [in the broader community] of ISLAM, away from all moslems.

Herbert,

Western Democracy and ISLAM each have [conflicting] laws, and each system cannot, can never, co-exist with the other.
For any person to declare that they are a moslem, is to declare their support for ISLAM - AND SUPPORT FOR ITS TENETS AND ITS SYSTEM OF LAWS, SHARIA LAW.

Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.

I know that some moslems [resident in the West] have claimed that they oppose the introduction of Sharia law [in the nation where they reside].
If that is true, AND, if those people claim to be moslems, then i ask this question; In what sense are these people moslems ?

Is it because those people have decided, to >> call << themselves moslems ?

The truth is that it is ISLAM itself [and ISLAM alone], that has always reserved to itself, the right to define who is a moslem [and who is not a moslem!].

Those people, wayward moslems, who wish to hang onto the 'community' of being a moslem, [while portraying themselves as moslems] who oppose the tenets and laws of ISLAM, are persons who, imo, are still defending, and who are trying to defend, the 'nicer' ideals of ISLAM.
And in that, they >> are << defending the name of ISLAM in this world [and, and in that, they are giving comfort to REAL moslems].
They are persons who, in some perverse personal desire to hang on to 'community', are defending their 'imaginings' of what ISLAM could be [i.e. something 'nice'], if only their mainstream moslem brothers would listen, to them!
But ISLAM cannot reformed, or be nice, ever!
That is an impossible illusion.
Why so ?
Because ISLAM is ISLAM, and a moslem [ultimately], is a moslem [i.e. 'a follower of Islam'].

“There is no radical islam–there is only islam.”

Tayyip Erdogan

Those persons who wish to remain as members of their community, and to refer to themselves as 'moslems', persons who imagine that they can 'struggle' for a nicer ISLAM, need to grow a set, and they need to choose - TO CHOOSE TO ABANDON ISLAM, to separate themselves from ISLAM.

Q.
Do those 'nice' moslems imagine that they can make a silk purse out of a sows ear ?

It is not possible to redeem ISLAM - unless large sections of the Koran can be jettisoned.

Ask a moslem, about the sanctity and the integrity of the Koran!!

To a [devout] moslem, the Koran is inerrant, and in its entirety the Koran is regarded by all moslems as the uncorrupted word of Allah !!

MORE....

Your absolutely right again Yadda.

The Koran is the uncorrupted unchanged word of God.

If I got a lay person who had never heard about christianity or islam and presented them the bible and the Koran, and told them the Koran is unchanged or unaltered for 1400 years, or you got the bible which has been modified, changed, altered, different versions, contradictions and full of mistakes.

What book do you reckon someone would choose?

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shockresist

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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #17 - Jul 27^th, 2013 at 9:23pm

moses wrote on Jul 27^th, 2013 at 6:36pm:

I see the muslims are trying to claim the Holy Spirit of Judiasm and Christianity as somehow signifying a thief, liar, pedophile, rapist, torturer and mass murderer muhammad, as the intended meaning.

Well to me that is just another muslim lie.

The HOLY SPIRIT EXISTED AT CREATION
Quote:

Genesis1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

THE HOLY SPIRIT ENTERED CHRIST AT BAPTISM
Quote:

Matthew3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

GOD RAISED JESUS FROM THE DEAD,THE SPIRIT OF GOD IS AVAILABLE TO BELIEVERS
Quote:

Romans8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

THE HOLY SPIRIT ENABLES BELIEVERS IN CHRIST'S SALVATION TO RECEIVE GIFTS
Quote:

1 Corinthians12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

12:5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

12:6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

12:11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into oneSpirit.

12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.

SPIRIT IS SPIRIT / FLESH IS FLESH
Quote:

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the [b]Spirit is spirit.

THE SPIRIT WILL COMFORT CHRISTIANS
Quote:

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

GRACE OF CHRIST,LOVE OF GOD, FELLOWSHIP OF HOLY SPIRIT BONDS CHRISTIANITY
Quote:

2 Corinthians 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

CHRIST HAS SENT THE HOLY SPIRIT TO CHRISTIANS ON EARTH
Quote:

Acts2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

It seems very clear that the SPIRIT is a spiritual / mental state of being. The SPIRIT OF GOD gives mental / spectral comfort and counseling to believers in the absence of the physical God.

There is nothing to show that it refers to a physical man, who in any case was nothing more than human filth, in the light of, Judaeo Christian religious ethos.

Why are muslims liars all the time?

But again jesus didn't come for the Christians and didn't come for all of humanity.

Jesus didnt care about everybody.

Jesus only came to the jewish tribes, not the whole world to be followed,

Matthew 10:5-6

These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not,But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

And he didnt care about everybody, because again he came only to help the jews,

Matthew 15:22-26

And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.

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True Colours

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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #18 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 1:21am

This must be the verse that inspired the Christian massacres throughout history:

Quote:

[Jesus said]“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the way of the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the rabbis and priests, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:17-20

Quote:

‘You shall therefore keep all My statutes and all My judgments,
Leviticus 20:22

Quote:

whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
James 2:10

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death.
Deuteronomy 17:12

Quote:

[Jesus said:] "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me."
Matthew 10:34-8

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Yadda

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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #19 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 1:45am

shockresist wrote on Jul 27^th, 2013 at 9:15pm:

Your absolutely right again Yadda.

The Koran is the uncorrupted unchanged word of God.

If I got a lay person who had never heard about christianity or islam and presented them the bible and the Koran, and told them the Koran is unchanged or unaltered for 1400 years,

Well, that is a lie. [.......pssst! he is a, MOSLEM.]

shockresist,

It is easy to prove that that is a lie, ........errr, to any rational person.

The Koran is a fabricated, manufactured document.

The Sana'a mosque manuscripts prove that the Koran is a fabricated document.

That you, a moslem,

refuse to acknowledge the evidence that has been uncovered, proving that the Koran is a fabricated document, is not unusual, nor unexpected.

Google;

Quranic Manuscripts Sana

i

Quote:

.....or you got the bible which has been modified, changed, altered, different versions, contradictions and full of mistakes.

I will concede, that the Bible is 'man made'.

And God inspired!

But unfortunately for moslems, the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, go quite a way to proving the integrity of the O.T. Jewish Bible...

Google;

dead sea scrolls, biblical integrity

Dictionary;
integrity = =
1 the quality of having strong moral principles.
2 the state of being whole. the condition of being unified or sound in construction. internal consistency or lack of corruption in electronic data.i

Quote:

What book do you reckon someone would choose?

I have read the O.T & N.T. Bible [KJV] through cover to cover, and i have read much of the Koran.

IMO, it is a case of chalk and cheese.

And imo, the Koran is the chalk.

And believe me the Koran [by comparison], is mostly a lot of boastful, unstructured, largely violent, gibberish!

But the Koran makes perfect sense to moslem clerics [they claim!].

If you don't believe me [about the gibberish claim], i encourage anyone, to read the Koran for yourself and see [BEFORE YOU CONVERT] !

And, i wish that many more moslems would read the Koran for themselves, instead of allowing themselves to be 'instructed' by clerics!

The Koran is set out in an unstructured format, without any narrative structure, without any sequential structure, to present context.

The 'structure' of the Koran is totally unlike most of the books of the OT Bible.

In contrast, almost all of the books of the OT Bible have a sequential, narrative, structure.i
+++

Following ISLAM, causes mental illness and inspires criminal behaviour, imo.

Following ISLAM, causes a man to justify criminal behaviour, imo.

Studying Christianity, and studying Jesus message, causes mental health.

Seeking the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, causes mental health.

Psalms 19:7
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.

Psalms 40:8
I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.

Psalms 25:8
Good and upright is the LORD: therefore will he teach sinners in the way.
9 The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way.
10 All the paths of the LORD are mercy and truth unto such as keep his covenant and his testimonies.
11 For thy name's sake, O LORD, pardon mine iniquity; for it is great.
12 What man is he that feareth the LORD? him shall he teach in the way that he shall choose.
13 His soul shall dwell at ease; and his seed shall inherit the earth.
14 The secret of the LORD is with them that fear him; and he will shew them his covenant.

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #20 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 1:53am

Yadda wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 1:45am:

If you don't believe me [about the gibberish claim], i encourage anyone, to read the Koran for yourself and see [BEFORE YOU CONVERT] !

No excuse, it is available online.

And the Koran starts out on its 1st page, so, so, promising....

http://quran.com/1/1

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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shockresist

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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #21 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 8:48am

Yadda wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 1:53am:

Yadda wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 1:45am:

If you don't believe me [about the gibberish claim], i encourage anyone, to read the Koran for yourself and see [BEFORE YOU CONVERT] !

No excuse, it is available online.

And the Koran starts out on its 1st page, so, so, promising....

http://quran.com/1/1

Yep the Koran starts so Beautiful.The Koran is from God and we are just affirming the beauty of the God of creator.

How beautiful a statement to start a beautiful book.

And right from the start in the Christian bible on the very first page there is a contradiction.

Page one people, hear me out.

Genesis 1:5

God created light and morning and evening on the first day of creation.

Then genesis 1:14

God created the moon, sun and the stars of the fourth day.

How could there be light and morning and evening on the forst day when the sources of light were created three days later.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #22 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 9:21am

True Colours wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 1:21am:

This must be the verse that inspired the Christian massacres throughout history:

'History' ~ yes. Correct.

And then came the separation of church and state ~ and the secularisation of Western nations' affairs. It heralded the beginning of modern civilisation.

But alas, not so with the Muslim countries. They continue to this day to be semi-theocracies frozen in time like bugs in ancient aspic.

No industries. No inventions. No discoveries. No contribution to modern civilisation. Everything of any practical value has had to be imported from the West. But for the West they would still be living in conditions that can only be described as biblical.

And then, even to the present time, Islam inspires in some of its most loyal devotees a whole host of nasty little habits.

Mass murder of rival sects. Suicide bombings. 'Race-rape'. etc etc too numerous to list here.

And then, after they've migrated to Western societies as migrants and refugees ~ lo and behold! The nightly news carries at least one story of violence committed in the local area by The Usual Suspects who are members of an immigrant community no more than 2 to 3 % of the population.

Don't worry about citing Christian-inspired wars and battles from historic times... You should be worrying about how it can happen that in an Islam-saturated city like Cairo an incredible 91 women can be raped by mobs of mosque-attending young Muslim men on a rampage of such barbarity that it would make Genghis Khan blush.

True Colours... You need an attitude-adjustment.

The first step towards a cure that alcoholics have to make is to acknowledge they have a problem. Denial only perpetuates the problem.

"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference".

I've custom-tailored this to be more appropriate to your condition:

"Allah, grant me the serenity to accept the facts as they really are,
And to have the courage to admit there's a problem with the Muslim community,
And the wisdom to know the difference between historical Christianity and Modern Day Islam".

On behalf of Ozpolitic's Christian community may I wish you all the best in your recovery and rehabilitation towards being unafraid to admit there's a problem with Muslim communities around the world.

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Yadda

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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #23 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 11:19am

shockresist wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 8:48am:

Yadda wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 1:53am:

Yadda wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 1:45am:

If you don't believe me [about the gibberish claim], i encourage anyone, to read the Koran for yourself and see [BEFORE YOU CONVERT] !

No excuse, it is available online.

And the Koran starts out on its 1st page, so, so, promising....

http://quran.com/1/1

Yep the Koran starts so Beautiful.The Koran is from God and we are just affirming the beauty of the God of creator.

How beautiful a statement to start a beautiful book.

Not a beautiful book, imo.

After the opening verses the Koran just seems to settle into a constant uninspiring PRATTLE.

Dictionary;
prattle = = talk at length in a foolish or inconsequential way.

e.g.
The 1st chapter of the Koran is very short, 7 verses short

This is an excerpt from the beginning of the 2nd chapter of the Koran;
[the 2nd chapter is 286 verses in length]

Quote:

This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah;
Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;
And who believe in the Revelation sent to thee, and sent before thy time, and (in their hearts) have the assurance of the Hereafter.
They are on (true) guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will prosper.
As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.
Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).
Of the people there are some who say: "We believe in Allah and the Last Day;" but they do not (really) believe.
Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not!
In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves).
When it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth," they say: "Why, we only Want to make peace!"
Of a surety, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realise (it) not.
When it is said to them: "Believe as the others believe:" They say: "Shall we believe as the fools believe?" Nay, of a surety they are the fools, but they do not know.
When they meet those who believe, they say: "We believe;" but when they are alone with their evil ones, they say: "We are really with you: We (were) only jesting."

Heady stuff!

Right ?

Wrong.

Of course, the Koran is a much more inspiring holy manuscript, when it is read in the original Arabic [we are told]. Tongue

i

Quote:

And right from the start in the Christian bible on the very first page there is a contradiction.

Page one people, hear me out.

Genesis 1:5

God created light and morning and evening on the first day of creation.

Then genesis 1:14

God created the moon, sun and the stars of the fourth day.

How could there be light and morning and evening on the forst day when the sources of light were created three days later.

response...

Quote:

Old Testament authority John H. Sailhamer writes:

In v. 14 God does not say, Let there be lights . . . to separate, as if there were no lights before this command and afterward the lights were created. Rather the Hebrew text reads, And God said, 'Let the lights in the expanse of the sky separate.' In other words . . . God's command assumes the lights were already in the expanse and that in response to his command they were given a purpose, to separate the day from the night and to mark seasons and days and years.. . . It suggests that the author did not understand his account of the fourth day as the creation of lights; but, on the contrary, the narrative assumes that the heavenly lights had already been created in the beginning (John H. Sailhamer, Expositors Bible Commentary, Vol. 2, Frank E. Gaebelein General Editor, Grand Rapids Mi: Zondervan, 1990, p. 34).

Thus it is not necessary to assume the sun was not part of the heaven and the earth created on the first day.

6. No Sun In The Future

We must also note that the Bible says there will be light without the sun in the future New Jerusalem.

And there shall be no night there: They shall need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign for ever and ever (Revelation 22:5).

The sun shall no longer be your light by day, nor for brightness the moon shall give light to you; but the Lord will be your everlasting light (Isaiah 60:19).

Since there will be no need for the sun as a light source in the future, it is certainly possible that there was no need for the sun as a light source in the beginning.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/stewart.cfm?id=684

« Last Edit: Jul 28^th, 2013 at 11:42am by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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moses

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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #24 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 12:32pm

shockresist wrote: Quote:

Why the deceit?

Why did you not give the extra verses which show the reason for Christ's decison to go and preach to the faithful?

WHAT DOES MATTHEW 10 REALLY SAY?
Quote:

10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

10:9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,

10:10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

10:11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.

10:12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.

10:13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

10:17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

10:18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

It seems pretty clear that CHRIST was warning the apostles of the dangers that lay ahead of them.

Many people would not receive the message the apostles were were bringing.

Many people would be a real physical danger to the apostles, Christ told the apostles to stay clear of them.

Seems fairly logical to me.

shockresist wrote: Quote:

Matthew 15:22-26 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.

Why are you afraid of the truth shockresist?

Why did you leave most of the narration out?

WHAT DOES MATTHEW 15 REALLY SAY?
Quote:

Matthew15:22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.

15:23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

15:25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.

15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.

15:27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.

15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

For Christian people this recital is of the utmost importance, for this is the commencement in part of what Christianity is all about.

Consider the following verses:
Quote:

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

You see Christianity is founded on the belief that man is saved by faith in Christ.

Again it is very clear Matthew 15 is telling us that anyone with faith in Christ will receive of His blessings. As the **woman of Canaan** did.

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moses

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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #25 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 12:34pm

True Colours Wrote: Quote:

Jesus said]“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the way of the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the rabbis and priests, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:17-20

Yes Christ came to fullfil the law

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Fullfil verb means === Cause to happen; complete successfully.

So Christ's sacrifice on the cross completed the requirements of the Mosaic Law.

See the above verses (to shockresist) about man being justified by faith in Christ and not the works of the law.

True Colours Wrote: Quote:

[Jesus said:] "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me."
Matthew 10:34-8

The SWORD is a symbolic term

Sword = Word of God

Ephesians 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

So yes the WORD OF GOD causes division. Some people believe some don't.

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shockresist Full Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 151 sydney Gender:	Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi Reply #26 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 12:53pm Yadda, if you truly believe, do you mind if I give you a deadly poison and drink it for me? MK 16:17-18 Those who believe are able to handle snakes and drink any deadly poison without suffering harm.
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Yadda

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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #27 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 1:25pm

shockresist wrote on Jul 27^th, 2013 at 9:23pm:

But again jesus didn't come for the Christians and didn't come for all of humanity.

Jesus didnt care about everybody.

Jesus only came to the jewish tribes, not the whole world to be followed,

Matthew 10:5-6

These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not,But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. ***

And he didnt care about everybody, because again he came only to help the jews,

You are mistaken, shockresist.

***
When he spoke this, Jesus had not yet suffered, been killed, and then risen to his glory.

Luke 24:25
Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

The New Testament tells us that Christ's ministry, was intentionally and primarily directed to the Jewish people [nation].

Whereas [after Jesus had risen from death] the apostles ministry was directed to all mankind - at the direction of God/Jesus the risen Christ.

Acts 11:18
When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Acts 13:45
But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. 4444
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

Acts 26:13
At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me.
14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,

Matthew 26:13
Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.

Mark 16:14
Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

What gospel ?

Matthew 4:17
From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

4444

God's promise to Abraham [and through Abraham, to all mankind]...

Genesis 22:18
And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Genesis 26:4
And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

The man Jesus, is the seed of Abraham.

The redeemer of all of those who love God.

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #28 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 1:31pm

shockresist wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 12:53pm:

Yadda, if you truly believe, do you mind if I give you a deadly poison and drink it for me?

MK 16:17-18 Those who believe are able to handle snakes and drink any deadly poison without suffering harm.

Luke 4:12
And Jesus answering said unto him....Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

I do not have the power to perform 'miracles' for fools.

All power comes from God.

So you would like me to take some poison ?

« Last Edit: Jul 28^th, 2013 at 8:35pm by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: Either you are a practising Muslim or a non-practi
Reply #29 - Jul 28^th, 2013 at 1:43pm

Yadda wrote on Jul 28^th, 2013 at 1:25pm:

Acts 11:18
When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Acts 13:45
But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. 4444
48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.i4444

God's promise to Abraham [and through Abraham, to all mankind]...

Genesis 22:18
And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

Genesis 26:4
And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

The man Jesus, is the seed of Abraham.

The redeemer of all of those who love God.

4444

Also.....

Isaiah 42:1
Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.
5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

It is all unfolding before our eyes.

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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