Australian Politics Forum - The Sealed Nectar-memoirs of the prophet

polite_gandalf

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male

Re: The Sealed Nectar-memoirs of the prophet
Reply #15 - Jul 30^th, 2013 at 7:27pm

freediver wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 6:49pm:

While Muslims often claim that Muhammed raised standards, he actually lowered them.

*sigh* No FD, you are so far from the truth. Muhammad raised standards on a revolutionary scale. He was the first to institute a legal code for the lawful conduct of warfare: no killing of women, children, monks and all other non-combatants, no mutilating bodies, and no wanton destruction of enemy property (infrastructure, trees, animals etc). Its hard to believe that he had to spell this out, because all these things were standard practice in war. The banishment of the two jewish tribes with safe passage and allowing them to keep their property was unheard of in the arab world till them - and Muhammad copped much flak from his followers.

freediver wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 6:49pm:

The execution of 700 POWs by Muhammed for example was a low point, even by the brutal standards of 7th century Arab tribal warfare.

So selective, that its just dishonest.

Here's where you got that from:

Quote:

Aiming at placing the events in their historical context, Watt points to the "harsh political circumstances of that era"[11] and argues that the treatment of Qurayza was regular Arab practice.[81] Similar statements are made by Stillman,[30] Paret,[78] Lewis[82] and Rodinson.[66] On the other hand, Michael Lecker and Irving Zeitlin consider the events "unprecedented in the Arab peninsula - a novelty" and state that "prior to Islam, the annihilation of an adversary was never an aim of war."[64][83] Similar statements are made by Hirschberg[84] and Baron.[85]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza#Demise_of_the_Banu_Qurayza

Note there is two opposing opinions on this. 5 historians are quoted as saying it was standard practice, 4 say it wasn't. Who is right? Who knows - the point is, you are being blatantly dishonest by claiming only one side of the debate exists.

Baronvonrort wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 7:10pm:

Was Abu Bakr a cavemate of Mo?

what?

Back to top

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Offline

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 48833
At my desk.

Re: The Sealed Nectar-memoirs of the prophet
Reply #16 - Jul 30^th, 2013 at 8:35pm

Quote:

Note there is two opposing opinions on this. 5 historians are quoted as saying it was standard practice, 4 say it wasn't. Who is right?

So this is how muhammed revolutionised standards of war? By leaving you arguing over whether he just a regular bloodthirsty maniac, or the most bloodthirsty of them all?

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

John Smith

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 74217
Gender: male

Re: The Sealed Nectar-memoirs of the prophet
Reply #17 - Jul 30^th, 2013 at 8:52pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 11:01am:

John Smith wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 10:50am:

I'm no expert on Prophets, Islamic or otherwise, but didn't he only gain that civil power after exercising and enforcing his military powers?

No - his first administrative rule was in Medina. At the time he was a fugitive after being expelled from Mecca. He was invited in to mediate over a conflict between two rival tribes, and became de-facto ruler of the oasis. He was hardly in a position to assert himself in Medina militarily - since his followers probably numbered less than 100 at the time. Here he instituted the covenant of Medina - granting full protections and rights to all citizens - muslim and non-muslim.

the fact that he was asked to mediate does not mean he was given civil powers .... did he have authority to enforce his decisions? If he didn't where were his civil powers?

I'm not trying to argue with you, I don't know the story of Mohammed enough to comment on it, I am simply trying to figure it out.

Back to top

Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

IP Logged

polite_gandalf

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male

Re: The Sealed Nectar-memoirs of the prophet
Reply #18 - Jul 30^th, 2013 at 9:56pm

freediver wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 8:35pm:

So this is how muhammed revolutionised standards of war?

He revolutionised standards by instituting the legal code for war I just described. What you are referring to is your ill-fated attempt to distort historical opinion on the matter.

John Smith wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 8:52pm:

the fact that he was asked to mediate does not mean he was given civil powers .... did he have authority to enforce his decisions? If he didn't where were his civil powers?

Muhammad was the administrative ruler of Medina - there's no doubt about that. The muslim calendar starts in the year of the migration to Medina - the "hijra" - thats how important it is. This was when islamic law was first put into practice in a real society, and Muhammad himself was the lawmaker

Back to top

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48833 At my desk.	Re: The Sealed Nectar-memoirs of the prophet Reply #19 - Jul 30^th, 2013 at 10:03pm Quote: He revolutionised standards by instituting the legal code for war I just described. So Islam permits the mass execution of POWs?
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: The Sealed Nectar-memoirs of the prophet Reply #20 - Jul 30^th, 2013 at 10:07pm You're trolling FD. I think its time for bed.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

True Colours Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2837 Gender:	Re: The Sealed Nectar-memoirs of the prophet Reply #21 - Jul 30^th, 2013 at 10:08pm Banu Qurayza were not POWs by any modern definition. They were criminal traitors. Aiding the enemy is punishable by death in US law.
Back to top	IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48833 At my desk.	Re: The Sealed Nectar-memoirs of the prophet Reply #22 - Jul 30^th, 2013 at 10:08pm Was it one legal code of war for Muslims and a different one for non-Muslims? Muhammed executed 700 POWs. That is not legal by any code of war. Quote: Banu Qurayza were not POWs by any modern definition. Yes they were. They are a textbook definition.
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

True Colours Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2837 Gender:	Re: The Sealed Nectar-memoirs of the prophet Reply #23 - Jul 30^th, 2013 at 10:13pm Executing traitors is legal in many jurisdictions including the US. Go find out what a POW actually is before you troll.
Back to top	IP Logged

polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: The Sealed Nectar-memoirs of the prophet Reply #24 - Jul 30^th, 2013 at 10:29pm According to FD, a country can't try and punish their citizens for treason that they had captured during conflict - because ... err.. they had been captured during conflict.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

True Colours

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 2837
Gender: male

Re: The Sealed Nectar-memoirs of the prophet
Reply #25 - Jul 31^st, 2013 at 2:29am

polite_gandalf wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 10:29pm:

According to FD, a country can't try and punish their citizens for treason that they had captured during conflict - because ... err.. they had been captured during conflict. Cheesy

Yeah bikie gangs should take note. They can start wars with police and be treated as POWs instead of criminals Cheesy

Back to top

IP Logged

Baronvonrort

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 18257
Gender: male

Re: The Sealed Nectar-memoirs of the prophet
Reply #26 - Dec 4^th, 2013 at 5:57pm

True Colours wrote on Jul 30^th, 2013 at 10:13pm:

Executing traitors is legal in many jurisdictions including the US.

So how long is it since the USA has executed a traitor?

The Sealed Nectar is evidence Mohammad was a warlord, his memoirs show he was a $$$Profit pretender.

I wonder if Karen Armstrong ever read the sealed nectar

Back to top

Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

IP Logged

Baronvonrort

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 18257
Gender: male

Re: The Sealed Nectar-memoirs of the prophet
Reply #27 - Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 1:04am

A few comments about the Sealed Nectar in an Islamic forum

Quote:

I am almost finished reading the book,The Sealed Nectar.
There are a lot of beheadings and violence,plots,and killing of non muslims just because they are non muslims..and i thought Islam was a religion of peace.
www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?87415-A-Question-about-the-Sealed-Nectar...

Back to top

Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

IP Logged

polite_gandalf

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male

Re: The Sealed Nectar-memoirs of the prophet
Reply #28 - Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 7:49am

Quote:

I just love reading Baronvonrort's posts - he writes so much bigoted and islamophobic crap. Then he pulls out a random quote by a forum user to incriminate islam. He has never read The Sealed Nectar, but he is convinced it builds a strong case against Islam - somehow. Because thats what some random guy on the internet says (even though he doesn't say it). Baron is so adorable.

~ another random internet guy.

Back to top

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

IP Logged

wally1

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 2055
Gender: male

Re: The Sealed Nectar-memoirs of the prophet
Reply #29 - Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 10:03am

polite_gandalf wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2014 at 7:49am:

Quote:

I just love reading Baronvonrort's posts - he writes so much bigoted and islamophobic crap. Then he pulls out a random quote by a forum user to incriminate islam. He has never read The Sealed Nectar, but he is convinced it builds a strong case against Islam - somehow. Because thats what some random guy on the internet says (even though he doesn't say it). Baron is so adorable.

~ another random internet guy.

They don't call him baronvon

rort

for nothing

Back to top

IP Logged