Australian Politics Forum - Muhammed the warmonger

freediver

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Re: Muhammed the warmonger
Reply #90 - Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 7:24pm

Quote:

Oh thats right - the tiny skirmishes in which Muhammad was acting in self defense is Muhammad slaughtering pagans

You could always try reading them. Or is this you demonstrating the Islamic principle of "sucking it up and being objective"?

freediver wrote on Jul 31^st, 2013 at 8:20pm:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banu_Qurayza#Demise_of_the_Banu_Qurayza

627: Muhammed executes 700 prisoners of war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_expeditions_of_Muhammad

623: First raid (failed)
Muhammad's order and reason for expedition: Raid Quraysh caravan to relieve themselves from poverty

630:
Muhammad's order and reason for expedition: To attack the people of Hawazin and Thaqif for refusing to surrender to Muhammad and submit to Islam because "they thought that they were too mighty to admit or surrender" after the Conquest of Mecca
Outcome: Muslims: 5 killed[255] Non-Muslims: 70 killed,[254] 6000 women and children captured

632 (year Muhammed died):
2nd last raid:
Muhammad's order and reason for expedition: Demolish the Temple of Dhul Khalasa worshipped by the Bajila and Khatham tribes
Outcome: 300 killed by Muslim

632:
last raid
Muhammad's order and reason for expedition: Invade Palestine and attack Moab and Darum
Outcome: Local population "slaughtered" by Muslims, "destroying, burning and taking as many captives as they could"

Quote:

blah blah blah, your constant resort to reductio ad Hitlerum just makes you look hysterical

It is not reducto ad hitlerum. I am demonstrating how absurd your argument is by showing that it applies equally well to Hitler.

Quote:

Muhammad put the arab world on the map

With the sword.

Quote:

and ushered in a 500 year golden age of scientific flourishing

And slaughtering pagans.

Quote:

And I just love how you just mindlessly throw around terms like "meagre [sic] reforms" - as if you know all about them and the exact impact they had. We both know you don't have a damn clue about what he did on this front, and you especially don't have a damn clue about the impact it had on his society, and how influential it was in spreading islam.

I know that he killed anyone who disagreed about how wonderful his reforms were. If you keep that up long enough, everyone starts to say what a great guy you are.

Quote:

Time to reveal your emperors clothes FD - your entire case is based on nothing but a Walt Disney script of an evil monster slaughtering innocent pagans, combined with reductio ad Hitlerum.

Muhammed slaughtered pagans. He also slaughtered Jews. The comparison is entirely appropriate.

Quote:

Thats literally your entire argument. Its childish, its ignorant, its bigoted, and its pathetic.

My argument is spelled out in the opening post, with evidence. Muhammed was a classical warmonger. He was just better at it than most.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muhammed the warmonger
Reply #91 - Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 8:05pm

freediver wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 7:24pm:

I know that he killed anyone who disagreed about how wonderful his reforms were. If you keep that up long enough, everyone starts to say what a great guy you are.

Like I said - no clue about the actual history, a steadfast refusal to learn about the history, and a determination to stick to the goblins and fairies kindergarten version of events, along with some good ol' fashioned reducto ad Hitlerum, thinking that it makes your toddler-level argument sound clever.

Debating you is frankly beneath me, and a complete insult to proper intellectual discussion.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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wally1 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2055 Gender:	Re: Muhammed the warmonger Reply #92 - Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 8:17pm Mo seemed to get the heads up that the jews and Christians where going to attack him and his community. He took pre emptive strikes.The jews and Christians at that time got what they deserved. If they had left the muslims alone to practice their religion their heads wouldn't of been kicked in.Simple really.
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Adamant Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1892 Brisbane	Re: Muhammed the warmonger Reply #93 - Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 8:20pm wally1 wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 5:49pm: Pity he only beheaded 800 jews.Mo should of finished them all off The true face of an extreme fascist muslim showing the true love of islam. Don't you just love your Bro's opinion Gandalf?
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wally1

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Re: Muhammed the warmonger
Reply #94 - Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 8:24pm

Journalist Robert Haddad mentions,

In conclusion, I would like to emphasize that the treatment of the Christians and Jews by Muslim states, Arab or Ottoman, was far superior to the treatment Muslims and Jews received at the hands of Christian states, or Palestinians at the hands of the Jewish state of Israel. In his book, Syrian Christians in Muslim Society, professor Robert Haddad states that “Islamic tolerance served to insure Christian survival.”29 “No attempt was made by any Muslim government to exterminate the Christians, and only rare and isolated attempts were made forcibly to convert them.”

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Adamant

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Re: Muhammed the warmonger
Reply #95 - Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 8:49pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 8:05pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 7:24pm:

I know that he killed anyone who disagreed about how wonderful his reforms were. If you keep that up long enough, everyone starts to say what a great guy you are.

Like I said - no clue about the actual history, a steadfast refusal to learn about the history, and a determination to stick to the goblins and fairies kindergarten version of events, along with some good ol' fashioned reducto ad Hitlerum, thinking that it makes your toddler-level argument sound clever.

Debating you is frankly beneath me, and a complete insult to proper intellectual discussion.

Are you saying that the Mo man had just cause for all the killings instigated by him and for him whilst he was alive?

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Soren

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Re: Muhammed the warmonger
Reply #96 - Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 8:54pm

wally1 wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 8:24pm:

Journalist Robert Haddad mentions,

In conclusion, I would like to emphasize that the treatment of the Christians and Jews by Muslim states, Arab or Ottoman, was far superior to the treatment Muslims and Jews received at the hands of Christian states, or Palestinians at the hands of the Jewish state of Israel. In his book, Syrian Christians in Muslim Society, professor Robert Haddad states that “Islamic tolerance served to insure Christian survival.”29 “No attempt was made by any Muslim government to exterminate the Christians, and only rare and isolated attempts were made forcibly to convert them.”

Do'h! Conversion meant loss of revenue. It was better to keep them in dhimmitude.

Anyway, nowadays, with dhimmi tax gone and 'Arab Spring' in full swing, Christians are hunted down and killed by the liberated Muslim mob.

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freediver

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Re: Muhammed the warmonger
Reply #97 - Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 8:56pm

Quote:

Debating you is frankly beneath me, and a complete insult to proper intellectual discussion.

LOL Gandalf. I notice you still cannot bring yourself to address the evidence of Muhammed slaughtering pagans that is in the opening post. Perhaps you can tell us about Muhammed's wonderful tax reforms instead?

Quote:

No attempt was made by any Muslim government to exterminate the Christians, and only rare and isolated attempts were made forcibly to convert them.

Nice bit of obfuscation there. Muhammed openly campaigned against Jews and Pagans. He openly promoted their eradication from the Arabian peninsula. He slaughtered them. The early Muslims succeeded in ethnically cleansing large areas of pagans, and nearly achieved this with Jews. Over a millenia later, Arabs forced millions of Jews to flee to Israel, then tried to wipe Israel off the map, in their own special way of celebrating the holocaust. And Gandalf whines that the comparison with Hitler is unjustified.

That Muhammed did not do the same for Christians merely reflects his grasp of his sphere of influence, not some kind of benign intent. He did however create a nation, law, culture and society that openly discriminates against all non-Muslims, including Christians.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muhammed the warmonger
Reply #98 - Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 9:03pm

Adamant wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 8:49pm:

Are you saying that the Mo man had just cause for all the killings instigated by him and for him whilst he was alive?

Not a single one of the incidents that FD refers to was a result of aggression on the part of Muhammad, every one of them was self defence/response to attack on the muslims. But FD wouldn't know that, he won't even bother reading a single biography of the prophet, or even conduct the most rudimentary research of his own. He's too occupied with far more important stuff - like concocting ever-so-clever comparisons to Hitler.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Adamant

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Re: Muhammed the warmonger
Reply #99 - Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 9:12pm

wally1 wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 8:24pm:

Journalist Robert Haddad mentions,

In conclusion, I would like to emphasize that the treatment of the Christians and Jews by Muslim states, Arab or Ottoman, was far superior to the treatment Muslims and Jews received at the hands of Christian states, or Palestinians at the hands of the Jewish state of Israel. In his book, Syrian Christians in Muslim Society, professor Robert Haddad states that “Islamic tolerance served to insure Christian survival.”29 “No attempt was made by any Muslim government to exterminate the Christians, and only rare and isolated attempts were made forcibly to convert them.”

As I know muslims are lazy decided to help and post the link for you.

http://www.freemuslims.org/news.php?id=4076

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Adamant

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Re: Muhammed the warmonger
Reply #100 - Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 9:14pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 9:03pm:

Not a single one of the incidents that FD refers to was a result of aggression on the part of Muhammad, every one of them was self defence/response to attack on the muslims. But FD wouldn't know that, he won't even bother reading a single biography of the prophet, or even conduct the most rudimentary research of his own. He's too occupied with far more important stuff - like concocting ever-so-clever comparisons to Hitler

That is not what I asked.

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freediver

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Re: Muhammed the warmonger
Reply #101 - Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 9:14pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 9:03pm:

Adamant wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 8:49pm:

Are you saying that the Mo man had just cause for all the killings instigated by him and for him whilst he was alive?

Not a single one of the incidents that FD refers to was a result of aggression on the part of Muhammad, every one of them was self defence/response to attack on the muslims. But FD wouldn't know that, he won't even bother reading a single biography of the prophet, or even conduct the most rudimentary research of his own. He's too occupied with far more important stuff - like concocting ever-so-clever comparisons to Hitler.

I won't 'know' it because it is complete and utter BS. But please, continue demonstrating the Islamic concept of sucking it up and being objective for us all.

Adamant wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 9:14pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 9:03pm:

Not a single one of the incidents that FD refers to was a result of aggression on the part of Muhammad, every one of them was self defence/response to attack on the muslims. But FD wouldn't know that, he won't even bother reading a single biography of the prophet, or even conduct the most rudimentary research of his own. He's too occupied with far more important stuff - like concocting ever-so-clever comparisons to Hitler

That is not what I asked.

Muslims are always justified in slaughtering non-Muslims. That's how Islam defines justice. Otherwise they would have a lot of explaining to do.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Muhammed the warmonger
Reply #102 - Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 9:34pm

Adamant wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 9:14pm:

That is not what I asked.

Because I reject the premise of your question - obviously.

freediver wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 9:14pm:

I won't 'know' it because it is complete and utter BS.

FD: "I don't have to learn anything about Muhammad, because I already "know" (by not learning anything) its all complete and utter BS" Tongue

freediver wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 9:14pm:

BS. But please, continue demonstrating the Islamic concept of sucking it up and

being objective

for us all.

I looked up 'objective' and to my surprise, found out that this is the proper definition:

"ensure you don't learn anything about a given topic, because its all BS - instead come up with pre-conceived prejudicial positions based on nothing at all."

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« Last Edit: Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 9:39pm by polite_gandalf »

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48833 At my desk.	Re: Muhammed the warmonger Reply #103 - Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 9:52pm I notice Gandalf you are happy to discuss anything in this topic except Muhammed's warmongering. Why don't you explain to us why Muhammed had to "defend" himself from those pagan tribes that he slaughtered? Are we supposed to guess what your excuse is going to be?
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wally1

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Re: Muhammed the warmonger
Reply #104 - Dec 4^th, 2013 at 5:04am

Soren wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 8:54pm:

wally1 wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2013 at 8:24pm:

Journalist Robert Haddad mentions,

In conclusion, I would like to emphasize that the treatment of the Christians and Jews by Muslim states, Arab or Ottoman, was far superior to the treatment Muslims and Jews received at the hands of Christian states, or Palestinians at the hands of the Jewish state of Israel. In his book, Syrian Christians in Muslim Society, professor Robert Haddad states that “Islamic tolerance served to insure Christian survival.”29 “No attempt was made by any Muslim government to exterminate the Christians, and only rare and isolated attempts were made forcibly to convert them.”

Do'h! Conversion meant loss of revenue. It was better to keep them in dhimmitude.

Anyway, nowadays, with dhimmi tax gone and 'Arab Spring' in full swing, Christians are hunted down and killed by the liberated Muslim mob.

Yeah tell me about it, similar to how the muslims are hunted down by the west.

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Poll
Question: Is war ever justified?
No. Let them come rape and kill us 0 (0.0%) No. I am too scared to ever fight 0 (0.0%) Yes. But only if there are WMDs involved 0 (0.0%) Yes. Sometimes you have to fight. 7 (70.0%) No. Only warmongers ever fight. 3 (30.0%) Total votes: 10 « Created by: True Colours on: Aug 2^nd, 2013 at 4:14pm »