Australian Politics Forum - Who Are The Real Bludgers.

BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Who Are The Real Bludgers.
Reply #75 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 3:56pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 2:26pm:

Mnemonic wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 12:42pm:

Wealth accumulation makes an economy inefficient. That's what I did say.

Unfortunately you did say that.

The 'wealth accumulation' of private individuals and privately owned industries has allowed the West to leave all the others far behind.

Rich people develop new industries which employ thousands of people who don't risk their savings on risky investments such as the rich are willing to do.

The rich are constantly risking their fortunes on property development, niche opportunity investments, venture capital investments, etc etc.

How many times have I heard a boss say "I wish I could work the same hours as you blokes do".

Without these risk-takers this would be a Third World Country.

By removing the motivation and the means for creating personal wealth ~ you soon reduce a nation's economy to a subsistence level.

My friend did a tour of Russia while it was still communist. At around 11.30am the group was shown through a huge factory where it was noticed that the workers were all smoking or eating while sitting next to their machines.

To cut to the chase ~ it wasn't a meal break of any sort. They had finished their Moscow-planned quota for the day.

Mnemonic wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 12:42pm:

I don't support the classism often associated with private education.

Your mask has slipped again.

Here again we see you in the role of petulant leftwinger who is aggrieved that others might be stealing a march on the working classes because they've made personal sacrifices and efforts to rise above the mob.

Leftwingers such as yourself become peeved when others pull ahead of the hoi polloi through sheer hard work, self-discipline, and personal sacrifice.

A private education offers a much more broad and wide-ranging learning experience for the student. It's the extras and the add-ons that hone young intellects and characters to a fine edge that public schools have neither the funds nor the teaching talent to offer.

Get rid of that chip on your shoulder, Mn!

Stop the 'Tall Poppy' whinging!

If people appear to be of a better class than you ~ then SUCK IT UP, dude! At least you'll never be out of a job for as long as you can polish their boots and chauffeur them around town.

Sheesh. Some people.

I'm hoping Lady Mantra here will eventually give me a chauffeuring job as in 'Driving Miss Daisy'. Cool

(Yes, I'll wear 'black-face' if that's what she insists upon... )

In red I agree with: but then you go on to forget that mnemeonic was talking about inefficiency of economy.

Wealth accumulation implies lack of re-investment in the economy- i.e. net loss of efficiency resulting in paper tigers/bubbles/false wealth/the american dream-time brudda!!

The only true value comes from work- the problem is stock market speculation whereby inherited wealth supports people via insider trading knowledge from the ever dwindling upper crust ==> read:
it's unsustainable
!

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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BatteriesNotIncluded Gold Member Offline MediocrityNET: because people died for this! Posts: 26966	Re: Who Are The Real Bludgers. Reply #76 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 3:58pm nothing grows exponentially!! The rate of change of an exponential curve is itself exponential- stop smoking crack herbert: change is the only constant!
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warrigal

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Re: Who Are The Real Bludgers.
Reply #77 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 4:17pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 2:26pm:

Mnemonic wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 12:42pm:

Wealth accumulation makes an economy inefficient. That's what I did say.

Unfortunately you did say that.

The 'wealth accumulation' of private individuals and privately owned industries has allowed the West to leave all the others far behind.

Rich people develop new industries which employ thousands of people who don't risk their savings on risky investments such as the rich are willing to do.

The rich are constantly risking their fortunes on property development, niche opportunity investments, venture capital investments, etc etc.

How many times have I heard a boss say "I wish I could work the same hours as you blokes do".

Without these risk-takers this would be a Third World Country.

By removing the motivation and the means for creating personal wealth ~ you soon reduce a nation's economy to a subsistence level.

My friend did a tour of Russia while it was still communist. At around 11.30am the group was shown through a huge factory where it was noticed that the workers were all smoking or eating while sitting next to their machines.

To cut to the chase ~ it wasn't a meal break of any sort. They had finished their Moscow-planned quota for the day.

Mnemonic wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 12:42pm:

I don't support the classism often associated with private education.

Your mask has slipped again.

Here again we see you in the role of petulant leftwinger who is aggrieved that others might be stealing a march on the working classes because they've made personal sacrifices and efforts to rise above the mob.

Leftwingers such as yourself become peeved when others pull ahead of the hoi polloi through sheer hard work, self-discipline, and personal sacrifice.

A private education offers a much more broad and wide-ranging learning experience for the student. It's the extras and the add-ons that hone young intellects and characters to a fine edge that public schools have neither the funds nor the teaching talent to offer.

Get rid of that chip on your shoulder, Mn!

Stop the 'Tall Poppy' whinging!

If people appear to be of a better class than you ~ then SUCK IT UP, dude! At least you'll never be out of a job for as long as you can polish their boots and chauffeur them around town.

Sheesh. Some people.

I'm hoping Lady Mantra here will eventually give me a chauffeuring job as in 'Driving Miss Daisy'. Cool

(Yes, I'll wear 'black-face' if that's what she insists upon... )

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If you can create a big enough lie about someone IGNORANT people will bellieve it.

The bigger the Arshole you are on this forum, the more right you have to stay.

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warrigal

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Re: Who Are The Real Bludgers.
Reply #78 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 4:19pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 13^th, 2013 at 9:08pm:

Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 13^th, 2013 at 3:28pm:

Wrong.

The rich are never in need of social security for the very good reason their wealth is enough to finance their lifestyle through various investments and leasing of property, etc, etc.

Mnemonic wrote on Aug 13^th, 2013 at 6:47pm:

It's not about need, but about keeping an advantage.

Nope. It's all about maintaining a basic living standard despite not receiving an income from a job. Period.

Mnemonic wrote on Aug 13^th, 2013 at 6:47pm:

Their wealth isn't being redistributed.

Wrong. The higher taxes for the rich (49% in some cases) are redistributed by the government through Centrelink to finance welfare payments for the lower socio-economic groups.

Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 13^th, 2013 at 3:28pm:

50 businesses go bankrupt in NSW each WEEK because of rental costs for business premises, business taxes and insurance, penalty rates and compensation for 'Mediterranean Back' sending them to the wall.

Mnemonic wrote on Aug 13^th, 2013 at 6:47pm:

In that case they should cut taxes on businesses and do something about inflated property prices. Allowing people to become rich doesn't actually help the economy anyway. What does help the economy is allowing businesses to become rich.

Wow. You're a full-blown communist aren't you? What you're advocating here is exactly, and precisely, and ideologically what communism was saying when it first started in Russia.

And it was precisely because no private person was allowed to get rich, that the entire country lived in dire poverty until communism was finally ditched.

Mnemonic wrote on Aug 13^th, 2013 at 6:47pm:

Surely, a good, loyal employee would love to pay "taxes" to a business rather than a government?

Now I KNOW you're joking.

During the entire Industrial revolution in the UK, the poor buggers who worked in the factories and in the mines had to buy all of their needs from shops run by the companies they worked for.

Result: Their wages were ripped right back off the employees at the company shops ~ leaving them with little more than slave wages for a beer or two on a night off.

Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 13^th, 2013 at 3:28pm:

How many times have we seen stories of early retirees investing all their life savings in a franchise at the local shopping mall, only for this to go bust within a few weeks because the advertising didn't match the reality?

Mnemonic wrote on Aug 13^th, 2013 at 6:47pm:

I think they simply made some bad investments there.

Not quite. Many are given false statistics as to the expected income of certain businesses in the local shopping areas.

Mnemonic wrote on Aug 13^th, 2013 at 6:47pm:

If they had put their life savings in a bank, this would have been less likely to happen.

um ... yes. Well spotted.

It amazes me how many otherwise sensible and hard-working people will put all their financial eggs in the one basket, close to or in their retirement years, buying up a franchise to sell ice cream, or cut keys, or sell bric-a-brac ... and then soon to be seen weeping on ACA or This Day Tonight because there weren't enough customers to sustain the business. And they're forced to live in a caravan park.

Stupidity carries its own punishment.

Mnemonic wrote on Aug 13^th, 2013 at 6:47pm:

My view is more like "socialism for the people, capitalism for businesses." That's the way I think it should be. Allowing people to become rich doesn't help the economy

.

That's Economic Marxism. State-controlled businesses allowed to generate capital for the State coffers ... while the peasants remain on subsistence wages.

My Russian aunt who I lived with for 4 years as a boy, escaped across Siberia to get away from the horrors of Stalin's dictatorship.

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If you can create a big enough lie about someone IGNORANT people will bellieve it.

The bigger the Arshole you are on this forum, the more right you have to stay.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Who Are The Real Bludgers.
Reply #79 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 4:29pm

I think you might be a 'revisionist' too, Mn.

Since we found out your political hankering for a society that doesn't tolerate class differences, and that frowns upon individual capital enterprises, or the private schooling of society's moneyed elite ~ we can only surmise that you've been reading WAY too many books on economic theory from a socialist perspective.

Jesus Christ had the same lack of understanding of how wealth is generated as you do.

He threw the money-lenders out of the temple. Big mistake. Okay, so he was only a humble carpenter and didn't know any better ~ but today we DO know better.

It's the same in the Muslim countries today ~ bank loans without interest. Result: The Middle Eastern countries remain charity cases to Western Foreign Aid ~ DESPITE them floating on oil.

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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: Who Are The Real Bludgers. Reply #80 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 4:33pm They've finally arrived, Lady Mantra. A little late, but they're here now. The Invasion of the Dreaded One-Liners ~ (coming to a cinema near you shortly).
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Lord Herbert

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Re: Who Are The Real Bludgers.
Reply #81 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 4:40pm

Can I tell you, Mnemonic ~ the worst bosses I ever met during my working life were not those at the top ~ but those at the bottom.

The ones at the top had too much class to behave towards the rank and file like bastards.

The arseholes were the lance corporals and the corporals amongst us.

Something like the 'capo' in Hitler's extermination camps.

Give your own kind a tiny weeny bit of authority over their former peers ~ and they go feral with savagery. Seen it many times.

Your 'egalitarian' Workers Paradise was always a myth, and will always be a myth.

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Who Are The Real Bludgers.
Reply #82 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 4:53pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 4:29pm:

I think you might be a 'revisionist' too, Mn.

Since we found out your political hankering for a society that doesn't tolerate class differences, and that frowns upon individual capital enterprises, or the private schooling of society's moneyed elite ~ we can only surmise that you've been reading WAY too many books on economic theory from a socialist perspective.

Jesus Christ had the same lack of understanding of how wealth is generated as you do.

He threw the money-lenders out of the temple. Big mistake. Okay, so he was only a humble carpenter and didn't know any better ~ but today we DO know better.

It's the same in the Muslim countries today ~ bank loans without interest. Result: The Middle Eastern countries remain charity cases to Western Foreign Aid ~ DESPITE them floating on oil.

Dear Herbert: government is a social construction==> free-markets are an idea that exist in ones head!

The idea(repeat FOR THE CRACK SMOKERS, 'IDEA') of free-markets can only be implemented through regulation otherwise you have cowboys killing all their customers,.. but actually those cowboys wouldn't even have quality tools to work(read MATERIALS SCIENCE) with in the first so Shocked

you're tripping dood trying to tell us free-markets rule the world!

Economc theory is flawed simply because it can't entertain externalities as they become too expensive- hence the import of the tax-payer!

NICE TRY THOUGH Shocked

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Who Are The Real Bludgers.
Reply #83 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 4:59pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 4:40pm:

Can I tell you, Mnemonic ~ the worst bosses I ever met during my working life were not those at the top ~ but those at the bottom.

The ones at the top had too much class to behave towards the rank and file like bastards.

The arseholes were the lance corporals and the corporals amongst us.

Something like the 'capo' in Hitler's extermination camps.

Give your own kind a tiny weeny bit of authority over their former peers ~ and they go feral with savagery. Seen it many times.

Your 'egalitarian' Workers Paradise was always a myth, and will always be a myth.

The ones at the top were taught aloofness from the farm: the large families and the boarding schools and all that there brudda!

You're not going over anyones head mate!

Embarrassed

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: Who Are The Real Bludgers. Reply #84 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 5:01pm High Class is here to stay. WE ain't goin' away anytime soon, buddy!
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BatteriesNotIncluded Gold Member Offline MediocrityNET: because people died for this! Posts: 26966	Re: Who Are The Real Bludgers. Reply #85 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 5:03pm Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 5:01pm: http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e150/ruffdiamond/January%202013/vintage-closed... Black and White : the good old 1950s is it?? Oh yeh, they were the golden years ay bro!
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Mnemonic

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Re: Who Are The Real Bludgers.
Reply #86 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 5:04pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 2:26pm:

By removing the motivation and the means for creating personal wealth ~ you soon reduce a nation's economy to a subsistence level.

I never said anything about removing the motivation for accumulating wealth. If people want wealth, they can go after it. In fact, if you cut someone's pay, they'll work harder for longer. Carrot and stick.

We buy cheap products from China. What can I say? The Chinese just keeping working, working and working because they expect to make it in the end. The West has lost its stamina. It lost it way back in the 19th century when the Chinese built the Transcontinental Railway in the USA.

The problem is when wealth accumulation is all people do. That's despite the fact that most Australians are above the poverty line. Ever heard of the contrast between "live to work" and "work to live?" That's what I'm talking about. Getting rich doesn't have to be the reason why you go to work each day. Can't you just do it because you love your job?

Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 2:26pm:

A private education offers a much more broad and wide-ranging learning experience for the student. It's the extras and the add-ons .......

A private education doesn't automatically make you "smart." It is not a silver bullet or magic wand for success. The student still needs to have the "innate ability" to learn and perform. A person isn't "smart" because they had a private education. It's a combination of their innate ability and the experience they get from a private school.

If someone says they're better than someone else because they went to private school, they're suggesting they're better than everyone who didn't go to private school. That's classism. It's wrong, not because someone is jealous, but because it isn't actually true. It's a person's innate ability that is the primary driver of success, not their just experience. Getting a "good education" is great, but you still need the "innate ability" to perform.

Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 2:26pm:

........... that hone young intellects and characters to a fine edge that public schools have neither the funds nor the teaching talent to offer.

If you think there was no character building in my public school, you are gravely mistaken. We had plenty of that, to the point where it became patronising.

Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 2:26pm:

Your mask has slipped again.

Here again we see you in the role of petulant leftwinger who is aggrieved that others might be stealing a march on the working classes because they've made personal sacrifices and efforts to rise above the mob.

Leftwingers such as yourself become peeved when others pull ahead of the hoi polloi through sheer hard work, self-discipline, and personal sacrifice.

There you go again with the straw man argument!

All I said was "classism," and now you start talking about people getting ahead in life? Where did that come from? You are definitely arguing against a straw man here!

You then talked about fictitious fears of people getting ahead through hard work. That's despite the fact that in the paragraph you were responding to, I was talking about the same thing: hard work. The difference was that I said that if a person was smart and worked hard, they wouldn't need to go to private school. Their own innate ability would ensure their success.

If you could know in advance that you had a smart kid, paying for a more expensive education is an unnecessary sacrifice. If you were a smart kid looking back and you went to a public school, you'd know that. Of course, you can't know that, so parents send them to private school anyway.

.............. and as if public school students don't work hard and have no self-discipline. Another straw man argument there! FYI, I worked hard and got to 98th percentile in my state, so I'm "sticking it" to those people who have their minds infected with private school classism.

The trouble is when sending kids to private school is a family tradition and becomes ingrained in people's minds. It's when it has nothing to do with personal choice, but something people think they're expected to do. Having said that, I respect Torpedo's personal choice to send her kids to private school because it is something she has thought deeply about.

Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 2:26pm:

Get rid of that chip on your shoulder, Mn!

If there's someone with a chip on their shoulder, it ain't me.

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Mnemonic

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Re: Who Are The Real Bludgers.
Reply #87 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 5:08pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 3:39pm:

Torpedo wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 1:29pm:

I thought a bit better of you, actually

Me too.

I was building this great big statue in my mind of Mnemonic, when it all started to crumble and break up as I began to realise he wants us all to wear a one-size-fits-all gray shapeless smock, not too unlike a burqa.

This way there's NO evidence of classism on display, and the Filthy Rich look just as impoverished as the ... er ... impoverishd.

He's SUCH a disappointment to us, Torpedo. Perhaps even to his parents? His dog? Cat? Cool

First impressions? Secondary impressions? Cool

I thought I was just having a conversation. I didn't know someone was trying to put me on a scale.

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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: Who Are The Real Bludgers. Reply #88 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 5:08pm Oh God NO! You're not back AGAIN are you Mnemonic?! I've created a monster!!
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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Who Are The Real Bludgers.
Reply #89 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 5:17pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 5:08pm:

Oh God NO! You're not back AGAIN are you Mnemonic?!

I've created a monster!!

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e150/ruffdiamond/January%202013/holiday-sign_z...

Roll Eyes

Herbert is a fascist,... he never got told he has two ears and one mouth for a reason!

Or did he and just conveniently forgets?!!?

Cheesy

Yeh, go me and my wit! Yehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh: got 'im again! Kiss

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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