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Who Are The Real Bludgers. (Read 13977 times)

Mnemonic

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Re: Who Are The Real Bludgers.
Reply #90 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 5:43pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 4:29pm:

I think you might be a 'revisionist' too, Mn.

I'm not a revisionist, just a realist.

The world is changing. Economic systems that have worked for 100 or so years won't necessarily continue working. I'm not looking back, but forwards to the future.

Capitalism is great for competition and a competitive system works only where there's plenty of energy and resources to go around. It takes effort to outdo your opponents. If they fight back, you have to fight harder. You will end up using more resources than if there weren't any competitors. If everyone is competing, then it's like hundreds of "big bad wolves" huffing and puffing and trying to blow each other's house down. It must be exhausting. Cool

Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 4:29pm:

Since we found out your political hankering for a society that doesn't tolerate class differences

This is Australia. We're not supposed to have class differences. Grin

This is about keeping the status quo. As a dumping ground for convicts and immigrants, there's little room for arrogance. Classism is un-Australian. Australia was a class-free paradise before we even knew Marxism existed. We never needed a class-struggle or class war.

Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 4:29pm:

and that frowns upon individual capital enterprises,

Where did I say that? I said I was in favour of businesses getting rich.

Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 4:29pm:

or the private schooling of society's moneyed elite

People can send their kids to private school if they want. I am against the classism associated with private schooling. Just don't make it a class thing, because this is Australia and we don't have classes.

Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 4:29pm:

Jesus Christ had the same lack of understanding of how wealth is generated as you do.

He threw the money-lenders out of the temple. Big mistake. Okay, so he was only a humble carpenter and didn't know any better ~ but today we DO know better.

Jesus was a Jew. It had a lot to do with his religion. While Jesus did have things to say about money, I don't think he was trying to be an economist. He was a mystic and if he had something to say about money, it wasn't all about planet earth. Well, you're agnostic anyway so why does it matter? Cheesy

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Who Are The Real Bludgers.
Reply #91 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 6:01pm

Mnemonic wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 5:43pm:

I'm not a revisionist, just a realist.

Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 4:29pm:

Since we found out your political hankering for a society that doesn't tolerate class differences

Mnemonic wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 5:43pm:

This is Australia. We're not supposed to have class differences. Grin

There's more class-snobbery in Australia than there is in the UK. That might surprise you ~ just as it might surprise you that Sydney gets more rainfall each year than does London.

Mnemonic wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 5:43pm:

Classism is un-Australian. Australia was a class-free paradise ...

Your Landed Gentry has been the aristocracy here since Captain Cook was a boy.

The 'Pitt Street Farmers' ~ just like Malcolm Fraser and Anthony Peacock ~ have been lording it here since the days of Botany Bay.

(To be continued ... )

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Who Are The Real Bludgers.
Reply #92 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 6:06pm

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"You get to the point where you post something that you believe is thoughtful and then some inadequate little twerp decides to make a totally irrelevant and personal attack on you." A Wise Lady

Methinks herbie has to harden up a little!!

Um, crack strips you of your vitamins don't ya know!! Shocked

*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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Mnemonic

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Re: Who Are The Real Bludgers.
Reply #93 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 6:14pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 4:40pm:

Can I tell you, Mnemonic ~ the worst bosses I ever met during my working life were not those at the top ~ but those at the bottom.

The ones at the top had too much class to behave towards the rank and file like bastards.

The arseholes were the lance corporals and the corporals amongst us.

Something like the 'capo' in Hitler's extermination camps.

Give your own kind a tiny weeny bit of authority over their former peers ~ and they go feral with savagery. Seen it many times.

Your 'egalitarian' Workers Paradise was always a myth, and will always be a myth.

I must have created the wrong impression. I find that I keep having to say, "no, I didn't mean that." Roll Eyes

I'm not against inequality, like I have said a number of times and nor am I saying there aren't any benefits of being "more educated." However, inequality isn't the same as class. We have inequality, but we don't have class. Class is something that exists in Britain and the USA, but not so much here.

I remember reading somewhere that when British and Australian soldiers started working together, one of the differences they discovered was the social hierarchy that existed in British society. There were different ways of speaking to people in British society, depending on their rank or status. For example, some of the British officers were part of the nobility. No such hierarchy existed in Australian society.

I hope I'm not being presumptuous in saying you must be British due to the fact that you have a union jack in your avatar. I'm assuming Andrei Hicks is British too. I remember him saying something about studying at a university in UK and how he found that "London" today is nothing like the home he remembered.

It makes me wonder if someone says, "I must be better than you because I went to private school," that it has to do with there being a social hierarchy in British society.

When it comes to the benefits of being "more educated," I can give Andrei credit for being more "polite" than most members of this board, but sometimes he does come across as patronising. I just would have thought it was beneath him to even be patronising. There are plenty of high-achievers in Australia who don't patronise. I managed to get to the 98th percentile in my state, but do I go around patronising people about it?

My conclusion: it must be something to do with being British.

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Mnemonic Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1530 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Who Are The Real Bludgers. Reply #94 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 6:30pm Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 6:01pm: There's more class-snobbery in Australia than there is in the UK. That might surprise you ~ just as it might surprise you that Sydney gets more rainfall each year than does London. I'd be interested in hearing a few stories about that.
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Torpedo

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Re: Who Are The Real Bludgers.
Reply #95 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 6:42pm

Mnemonic wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 3:48pm:

It is getting more and more counter-productive these days to get rich because of the emerging economic reality: globalisation and too many people on this planet.

And? the point you trying to make is that we should encourage more dumb breeding? By distributing the wealth and letting the poor to sit on the dole and having access to public services at no cost at all will do what exactly, in support of your suggestion regarding overpopulation? Will it stop or increase the population?
Don't you think we would benefit more from having those who strive for knowledge, work hard, keep their yards clean, discovering and inventing (perhaps even solving this problem with dying Earth), than those who prefer to sit on the couch from 9-3 with a pack of VB, grieving about how miserable those rich bastards are... till it's time to pick up their kiddy (who is also desitned to sit on the couch, unfortunately!)? Or perhaps you think it's better to help those multi-family immigrants, who breed and breed and breed, and hate everyone around them for their "infidelity" instead of actually contributing in some way? Is this what's supposed to be called SHARING? What for? for the sake of being dominated by them? are we masochists?
When the ship is sinking you save the bees not the cockroaches.

If GST rises by 5%, then your income must also rise by 5%. Which means you will either become unemployed or underpaid. Choose wisely

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Mnemonic

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Re: Who Are The Real Bludgers.
Reply #96 - Aug 15^th, 2013 at 3:13am

Torpedo wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 6:42pm:

And? the point you trying to make is that we should encourage more dumb breeding?

I had to go back several pages to remember what it was that I said . . . . .

Torpedo wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 6:42pm:

By distributing the wealth and letting the poor to sit on the dole and having access to public services at no cost at all will do what exactly, in support of your suggestion regarding overpopulation? Will it stop or increase the population?

If there are too many people, there won't be enough energy and resources and therefore "wealth" to go around. It's got nothing to do with whether there's someone actively distributing "wealth." Supply will not be able to keep up with demand. If suppliers and manufacturers of goods sell things to the highest bidder, that means that things you used to be able to buy really cheap are going to be really expensive. The whole world's population may reach a limit, but not before people start feeling some economic pain. Living costs may be so high, kids may not be able to afford textbooks anymore.

Torpedo wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 6:42pm:

Don't you think we would benefit more from having those who strive for knowledge, work hard, keep their yards clean, discovering and inventing (perhaps even solving this problem with dying Earth), than those who prefer to sit on the couch from 9-3 with a pack of VB,

Again, I didn't say anything about not working hard. Can we find a "scientific" and "technological" solution? If we can find one, that's great. I just doubt we'll find one. The only solution is probably a "cultural" one.

This is the generation that gets married later, has fewer kids or doesn't have them at all because they're more self-centred and self-indulgent. It's the reason for our lower birth rates. They want more out of life than earlier generations. This sets a pattern. If people get used to living comfortable, happy and fun lives, they will find it hard to adjust to tough times.

It doesn't matter if they work hard. Their lifestyle is expensive. They're working hard for an expensive lifestyle. There are people on the other side of the world who are too poor to have that kind of lifestyle, yet they can still survive.

Why does it bother me? It's because people here won't be able to live like that forever. The happiness won't last and that's just sad. They worked hard, but they spent their earnings on themselves and on something they didn't really need. People in the future won't be so lucky.

Torpedo wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 6:42pm:

grieving about how miserable those rich bastards are... till it's time to pick up their kiddy (who is also desitned to sit on the couch, unfortunately!)?

Firstly, I'd like to clarify my views on the rich guys. Knowing that there are low-income families like your's that are doing it tough, when a high-income family complains that they're "doing it tough," I just don't have sympathy for them -- nothing to do with jealousy.

As for those couch-sitting guys, if they're still there it's because they don't know what they're missing. Have you ever looked at the people around you and felt you were missing something? Do you see people around you that have something you don't? A normal person would get up and do something about it. If they see something they want, they'll go after it. If they need money, they'll get a job.

If they're not doing that, there must be some deeper, personal issue that you wouldn't know about. Maybe they're suffering from depression or mental illness. They've lost their drive, lack motivation and every morning when they wake up they feel like the undead. They need to see a psychologist and get counselling. Whatever the problem is, CentreLink probably knows about it ........... Cool

Torpedo wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 6:42pm:

Or perhaps you think it's better to help those multi-family immigrants, who breed and breed and breed, and hate everyone around them for their "infidelity" instead of actually contributing in some way?

People who call the men and women in our society philanderers and whores really put me off, but the Immigration Department let them in, so there's not much I can do. Cool

Torpedo wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 6:42pm:

Is this what's supposed to be called SHARING? What for? for the sake of being dominated by them? are we masochists? When the ship is sinking you save the bees not the cockroaches.

I didn't say you had to share your stuff with "sexist" and "holier than thou" immigrants. Surely you've got family and friends? Cool

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Who Are The Real Bludgers.
Reply #97 - Aug 15^th, 2013 at 8:49am

Mnemonic wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 6:14pm:

Class is something that exists in Britain and the USA, but not so much here.

It's true that you people like to pretend there is no landed gentry here, and no North Shore golfing clubs, tennis clubs, or yachting clubs deliberately priced to keep out the riff-raff.

You like to pretend there isn't the silver-tailed, bejeweled opera crowd, or the High Fashion crowd, or those special marquees at the Flemington racecourse on Melbourne Cup Day that are filled with the sons and daughters of Australia's Social Elite.

As a sop to the Aussie myth of 'mateship' ~ your aristocrats are occasionally heard to utter the words ... "Good onya, mate" ... "Righto, mate" ...

It's all a pose.

The legal and political class in Australia are aggressively class-conscious and class-aspiring. They'll shop at Sydney's most expensive seaside suburbs rather than pay half price at K-Marts in the city where no one will recognise them.

And from your very own lips you have contradicted yourself, Mnemo :~

To wit: (paraphrasing) ~ "Private schooling is all about 'class'". You don't like the 'classism' that private schools represent.

But then: "Class is something that exists in Britain and the USA, but not so much here".

So isn't it a manifestation of 'classism' that so many parents send their children to private school here in Australia?

No 'class' in Australia? There's every bit as much social-climbing in Australia as there is in the UK - maybe more.

Every major city has its leafy suburbs where the 'aristocrats' segregate themselves from the Great Unwashed.

Most of these people loathe the Australian accent for it being nasal, whiny, and low-class. They hate being addressed as 'mate' for this being over-familiar and lacking in 'proper' respect for their social status.

etc.

The snobbery, the classism, the social climbing, and the looking-down-the-nose amongst You Australians is on display everywhere you go.

Mnemonic wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 6:14pm:

I remember reading somewhere that when British and Australian soldiers started working together, one of the differences they discovered was the social hierarchy that existed in British society. There were different ways of speaking to people in British society, depending on their rank or status. For example, some of the British officers were part of the nobility. No such hierarchy existed in Australian society.

One can boil that all down to one word: ~ Good manners, discipline, and respecting another's rank.

No petulance, no sulking, no little boy tantrums.

You People have been notoriously ill-disciplined during the Wars. Books have been written on it. Willful, delinquent, unruly, ADHD.

Mnemonic wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 6:14pm:

I hope I'm not being presumptuous in saying you must be British due to the fact that you have a union jack in your avatar.

Don't be so polite, you're making me feel guilty. Tongue

The Union Jack doesn't identify anyone these days. Through mass and indiscriminate immigration over the past 40 years into the UK, the Union Jack represents absolutely no one ~ and everyone.

If you want to be British ~ just buy a little Union Jack flag on a popsicle stick from a Chinese 2 Dollar store ~ 'Made in China' ~ and wave it at certain events.

It's been rendered meaningless. It's a relic from a time when the Brits were not black, or turbaned, or Muslim... and they weren't born in the UK to set off suicide bombs in the London Underground.

I spent 7 years of my childhood in China. When I arrived in the UK it was foreign to me except for the language.

Mnemonic wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 6:14pm:

It makes me wonder if someone says, "I must be better than you because I went to private school," that it has to do with there being a social hierarchy in British society.

Get over your complex and you'll feel a lot better. Snobs are sad little people with no talent and too much money. Pity them, because they are actually miserable individuals who will one day die alone and unloved.

Mnemonic wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 6:14pm:

When it comes to the benefits of being "more educated," I can give Andrei credit for being more "polite" than most members of this board, but sometimes he does come across as patronising.

Are you Indian or Chinese by any chance? I'm channeling someone from an ethnic background where politeness and respect is ALWAYS at a premium.

Mnemonic wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 6:14pm:

I managed to get to the 98th percentile in my state,

My sincere congratulations. Your parents must be very proud of you. Are you going into medicine (if I may presume to ask Cool

)

Mnemonic wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 6:14pm:

My conclusion: it must be something to do with being British.

Ah! This is a clear case of stereotyping, profiling, racial prejudice, xenophobia, bigotry ... and maybe even the dreaded 'homophobia'!

Andrei and I demand an apology!

« Last Edit: Aug 15^th, 2013 at 11:07am by Lord Herbert »

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warrigal

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Re: Who Are The Real Bludgers.
Reply #98 - Aug 15^th, 2013 at 9:15am

Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 15^th, 2013 at 8:49am:

Mnemonic wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 6:14pm:

Class is something that exists in Britain and the USA, but not so much here.

It's true that you people like to pretend there is no landed gentry here, and no North Shore golfing clubs, tennis clubs, or yachting clubs deliberately priced to keep out the riff-raff.

and your forgetting business owners with the attitude I will sell to my kind but not others.

this attitude also relates to some retail employees out their that decide who they will serve and who they won't serve.

If you can create a big enough lie about someone IGNORANT people will bellieve it.

The bigger the Arshole you are on this forum, the more right you have to stay.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: Who Are The Real Bludgers.
Reply #99 - Aug 15^th, 2013 at 11:15am

warrigal wrote on Aug 15^th, 2013 at 9:15am:

this attitude also relates to some retail employees out their that decide who they will serve and who they won't serve.

Well let's be fair about this, Warrigal. If you enter a shop to make a purchase while wearing a long nicotine-stained beard ... dirty thongs ... broken and missing teeth ... long, filthy fingernails ... a ragged and torn army trench coat ... blood-shot eyes from drinking methylated spirits from Bunnings ... and bad breath fit to stop a charging buffalo ...

... then what do you expect?

I want to see you clean up your act before you visit Centrelink again.

Post a photo.

Meanwhile, Have a Nice Day! Cool

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Torpedo

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Re: Who Are The Real Bludgers.
Reply #100 - Aug 15^th, 2013 at 1:52pm

Mnemonic wrote on Aug 15^th, 2013 at 3:13am:

that's right, instead of taking away the rights from those who control their lifestyle, and instead of overpopulating, they work and save (whether they do it for their own sake, or the earth, or the humanity), and educate their kids, so there are much higher chances that these people will bring about a more positive outcome, and higher chances that these kind of people will actually contribute to healthier impact on earth, as a result: the humanity as a whole. So we would definitely benefit more by helping them to keep going at this pace, and continue contributing, than from those who prefer to suck up on our taxes, overbreed, advocate hatred, teaching their brood nonsense, bereave females from human rights, confining them in a sack and depriving them from an essential Vitamin D, burn churches, etc.
So may as well help those who are not as destructive and are not those brainless breeders.

If GST rises by 5%, then your income must also rise by 5%. Which means you will either become unemployed or underpaid. Choose wisely

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Torpedo

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Re: Who Are The Real Bludgers.
Reply #101 - Aug 15^th, 2013 at 2:06pm

Mnemonic wrote on Aug 15^th, 2013 at 3:13am:

Can we find a "scientific" and "technological" solution? If we can find one, that's great. I just doubt we'll find one. The only solution is probably a "cultural" one.

oh no, the cultural one will actually make it worse, we've seen enough of this cultural one.
If we can find the solution (and I have a feeling we can), then we really need to work towards it, and instead of becoming dejected and give up, we need to persevere. But if in the end we find that there is no solution, then at least we can say we tried. But living like animals in caves till the end of humanity isn't going to help us either

If GST rises by 5%, then your income must also rise by 5%. Which means you will either become unemployed or underpaid. Choose wisely

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Torpedo

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Re: Who Are The Real Bludgers.
Reply #102 - Aug 15^th, 2013 at 2:22pm

Mnemonic wrote on Aug 15^th, 2013 at 3:13am:

As for those couch-sitting guys, if they're still there it's because they don't know what they're missing. Have you ever looked at the people around you and felt you were missing something? Do you see people around you that have something you don't? A normal person would get up and do something about it. If they see something they want, they'll go after it.

If they need money, they'll get a job

I had to live in a severe circumstances, and I lost my father when I was 18, I had nobody to give me neither money, nor shelter, so I know how these people feel, but sitting down isn't going to improve their lives.
I used to cry myself to sleep, and the next morning I would go to work and put up with difficult customers, arrogant boss, and often without a break or lunch
The light will not come to you, you need to find a way to the light

P.S. There was not a person in the past to wipe my tears and give me some dole money. On the other hand I saw those who had it all: moms and dads, comfy place to live, a car to drive around, and yet they lived on the dole which I, and many other people like me, supported for them.
And guess what, these are the people who won't help anyone, not then, not now, when they are successfull and wealthy.
These people are not rich. These are just rodents in our society. And there is plenty of them, it's just our genius governments aren't looking deep enough.

If GST rises by 5%, then your income must also rise by 5%. Which means you will either become unemployed or underpaid. Choose wisely

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warrigal

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Re: Who Are The Real Bludgers.
Reply #103 - Aug 15^th, 2013 at 3:20pm

Lord Herbert wrote on Aug 15^th, 2013 at 11:15am:

warrigal wrote on Aug 15^th, 2013 at 9:15am:

this attitude also relates to some retail employees out their that decide who they will serve and who they won't serve.

by the way arshole I haven't gone to centrelink dressed the way you perceive or assume.

your still a ignorant bastard korri

how does this korri get away with this, that's right it would be racist to say something against him.

If you can create a big enough lie about someone IGNORANT people will bellieve it.

The bigger the Arshole you are on this forum, the more right you have to stay.

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FriYAY Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7395	Re: Who Are The Real Bludgers. Reply #104 - Aug 15^th, 2013 at 3:28pm Found a job yet Wazza?
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