Australian Politics Forum - Why would you NOT use notes??

Neferti

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Re: Why would you NOT use notes??
Reply #15 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 12:42pm

RightSadFred wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 12:31pm:

Neferti

I would allow them cue cards you know about 10cm by 15cm with pullet points....... Rudd is holding a lot of paper for an event that was about an hr or so long.

I have run 3 day work shops off bullet points on a single sheet of A4 paper.

Its all about knowing your subject matter, Costello was the best MP at this I can recall on this, it appears Rudd's mind is very dull or disorganised (or both) for him to need that many notes for a short session.

Fred,
Yes, but the Rules stated no NOTES and Tony Abbott adhered to the Rules. Krudd did not and should have been pulled up by the Moderator. He had notes and so cheated and gave himself an unfair advantage.

Not that Tony needed notes, he did an excellent job without even dot-points.

Krudd is losing it, I think. He will throw a wobbly any day now. Grin

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Fit of Absent Mindeness Gold Member Offline We need more fits of absent mindedness Posts: 1622 Brisbane Gender:	Re: Why would you NOT use notes?? Reply #16 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 12:47pm What is Abbott using here? That's it - his a cheat as well!
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longweekend58 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 45675 Gender:	Re: Why would you NOT use notes?? Reply #17 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 12:50pm Fit of Absent Mindeness wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 12:47pm: https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q71/s720x720/1097982_4655... What is Abbott using here? That's it - his a cheat as well! g'day icey... what happened to Dailywire? I see it is gone?
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longweekend58 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 45675 Gender:	Re: Why would you NOT use notes?? Reply #18 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 12:51pm Fit of Absent Mindeness wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 12:47pm: https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q71/s720x720/1097982_4655... What is Abbott using here? That's it - his a cheat as well! its like an exam. you are allowed to MAKE notes during it, but not allowed to bring them in with you.
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RightSadFred

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Re: Why would you NOT use notes??
Reply #19 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 12:51pm

longweekend58

Yes many speakers use notes ....... but the goods ones don't. You missed what I said, just because you speak publicly does not mean you are good at it ...... look at Gillard, she barks at people in a condescending manner.

The better speakers need very little, Rudd is claimed to be such a good speaker and Abbott they claim is not........ yet this debate showed Rudd has very little credibility.

FYI out of all the public events I have attended of many different styles ....... many of them are boring and very unprofessional, at a guess I think most people are uncomfortable at public speaking. This does not bother me much as these people often are not professional speakers but are highly credible people asked to have a say. A politician is a professional mouth piece and should have highly developed public speaking skills.

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buzzanddidj

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Re: Why would you NOT use notes??
Reply #20 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 12:53pm

cods wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 11:58am:

maybe because

HE SIGNED NOT TO USE NOTES THATS WHY

NO
He DIDN'T

This "dispute" is just about point scoring and "playing politics" - from right-wing advocates

Speech pointer notes are NEITHER "a document" or an "other prop" when delivering an address

( ... obviously Tony is confused by definition, as WELL)

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matty

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Re: Why would you NOT use notes??
Reply #21 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 12:53pm

RightSadFred wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 12:09pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 11:56am:

It's probably about ratings, Wigley. Notes make people turn the channel.

Besides, a candidate for PM should have his arguments down pat by now. If Gillard was on the stand, she certainly would - as would Turnbull.

Rudd's a details man. Abbott's a big picture man. Rudd needs notes much more than Abbott,

I'd like to see the situation reversed. If Abbott had notes and Rudd talked off the cuff - that's the debate I'd like to see.

Whenever I go to any presentations I tend to get turned off people continuously referring to their notes, I even get the odd presenter reading out a script which suggests me they really don't agree or understand what they are saying.

If you truly believe something or are intimate with a subject matter you can speak without notes.

Rudd just bunches a bunch of lies together and is heavily scripted, telling the truth has a nice natural flow, when you start lying you need to keep thinking up new lies to fill in the gaps that lies create....... it like running on a treadmill with no controls.

I remember a few years ago, doing my HSC, we did a speech for English. It was supposed to be 7 minutes. One kid got up there with an essay written completely by his older brother. He stood there talking for 19 minutes without looking up from his transcript even once. Whenever you give a presentation of any kind, you mustn't refer to palm cards, except sporadically. It shows that you don't have confidence in what you are saying, and that you aren't even fully aware of the topic/s.

In Rudd's case, however, it was even worse, because the rules stated that notes were not allowed in the room. So why didn't David Speers or anyone else stop him. If you ask me, Speers has questions to answer.

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Neferti

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Re: Why would you NOT use notes??
Reply #22 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 12:57pm

RightSadFred wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 12:51pm:

longweekend58

Yes many speakers use notes ....... but the goods ones don't. You missed what I said, just because you speak publicly does not mean you are good at it ...... look at Gillard, she barks at people in a condescending manner.

The better speakers need very little, Rudd is claimed to be such a good speaker and Abbott they claim is not........ yet this debate showed Rudd has very little credibility.

FYI out of all the public events I have attended of many different styles ....... many of them are boring and very unprofessional, at a guess I think most people are uncomfortable at public speaking. This does not bother me much as these people often are not professional speakers but are highly credible people asked to have a say. A politician is a professional mouth piece and should have highly developed public speaking skills.

Fred,

Exactly. I believe that John Howard did not use notes Normally I avoid political speeches but watched this time as I really, truly want Tony Abbott to win and Krudd to be dispatched to the dustbin of Life!

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buzzanddidj

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Re: Why would you NOT use notes??
Reply #23 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 1:05pm

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 12:51pm:

Fit of Absent Mindeness wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 12:47pm:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q71/s720x720/1097982_4655...

What is Abbott using here?

That's it - his a cheat as well!

its like an exam. you are allowed to MAKE notes during it, but not allowed to bring them in with you.

RUBBISH !

( ... where did you pull THAT from)

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'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'

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longweekend58

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Re: Why would you NOT use notes??
Reply #24 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 1:23pm

RightSadFred wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 12:51pm:

longweekend58

Yes many speakers use notes ....... but the goods ones don't. You missed what I said, just because you speak publicly does not mean you are good at it ...... look at Gillard, she barks at people in a condescending manner.

The better speakers need very little, Rudd is claimed to be such a good speaker and Abbott they claim is not........ yet this debate showed Rudd has very little credibility.

FYI out of all the public events I have attended of many different styles ....... many of them are boring and very unprofessional, at a guess I think most people are uncomfortable at public speaking. This does not bother me much as these people often are not professional speakers but are highly credible people asked to have a say. A politician is a professional mouth piece and should have highly developed public speaking skills.

I disagree. we want our pollies to be good LEADERS not good speakers. We want good policy-makers, not after-dinner entertainment. A pollie should be able to acquit himself well in public speaking but by no means should he ben expected to be brilliant or even particularly good. Whiltam was a brilliant speaker and a poxy PM. Howard was an average public speaker but a great PM. The correlation simply isn't there.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Why would you NOT use notes??
Reply #25 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 1:27pm

buzzanddidj wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 1:05pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 12:51pm:

Fit of Absent Mindeness wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 12:47pm:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q71/s720x720/1097982_4655...

What is Abbott using here?

That's it - his a cheat as well!

its like an exam. you are allowed to MAKE notes during it, but not allowed to bring them in with you.

RUBBISH !

( ... where did you pull THAT from)

[color=#ff0000]it was part of the AGREED RULES to the debate!

[/color]

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Karnal

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Re: Why would you NOT use notes??
Reply #26 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 1:33pm

matty wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 12:53pm:

RightSadFred wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 12:09pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 11:56am:

It's probably about ratings, Wigley. Notes make people turn the channel.

Besides, a candidate for PM should have his arguments down pat by now. If Gillard was on the stand, she certainly would - as would Turnbull.

Rudd's a details man. Abbott's a big picture man. Rudd needs notes much more than Abbott,

I'd like to see the situation reversed. If Abbott had notes and Rudd talked off the cuff - that's the debate I'd like to see.

Whenever I go to any presentations I tend to get turned off people continuously referring to their notes, I even get the odd presenter reading out a script which suggests me they really don't agree or understand what they are saying.

If you truly believe something or are intimate with a subject matter you can speak without notes.

Rudd just bunches a bunch of lies together and is heavily scripted, telling the truth has a nice natural flow, when you start lying you need to keep thinking up new lies to fill in the gaps that lies create....... it like running on a treadmill with no controls.

I remember a few years ago, doing my HSC, we did a speech for English. It was supposed to be 7 minutes. One kid got up there with an essay written completely by his older brother. He stood there talking for 19 minutes without looking up from his transcript even once. Whenever you give a presentation of any kind, you mustn't refer to palm cards, except sporadically. It shows that you don't have confidence in what you are saying, and that you aren't even fully aware of the topic/s.

How did you go in your speech, Matty? Did you get good marks?

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Re: Why would you NOT use notes??
Reply #27 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 1:40pm

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 1:27pm:

...

[color=#ff0000]it was part of the AGREED RULES to the debate!

[/color]

If so, when Rudd arrived at the lectern with notes in hand, why didn't anyone say something? Whoever was in charge must have thought it OK as, evidently, did Rudd.

Are you alleging a conspiracy to embarrass Rudd?

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BlOoDy RiPpEr Gold Member Offline aussie-patriot.com Posts: 2475 Sydney Gender:	Re: Why would you NOT use notes?? Reply #28 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 1:49pm
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Re: Why would you NOT use notes??
Reply #29 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 1:52pm

The one thing that's missing from this shouting match: http://images.theage.com.au/file/2013/08/12/4653668/debaterules.pdf?rand=1376255....
12. The Leaders may have a pen and paper on the lecturn and no other documentation or props.

I can see how Rudd might have missed the second-last bit, but why didn't anyone else notice?

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