Australian Politics Forum - Why would you NOT use notes??

Dnarever

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Re: Why would you NOT use notes??
Reply #30 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 1:53pm

Peter Freedman wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 12:33pm:

First, Wigley, welcome to the forum.

Second congrats for a very impressive first message.

As a union leader and, later, an advocate, I have done a lot of public speaking. I spoke largely off the cuff, but always had with me some cards detailing the main points in case I forgot anything.

It is the sensible way. Why there was an agreement not to use notes I have no idea.

Since he commented before the debate that he had a lot of notes I would think it was obvious that he didn't know about the stupid rule. In any debate there are no rules you take what you want.

Besides Abbott also had some notes they were clearly visible on the lectern.

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longweekend58

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Re: Why would you NOT use notes??
Reply #31 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 1:53pm

# wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 1:40pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 1:27pm:

...

[color=#ff0000]it was part of the AGREED RULES to the debate!

[/color]

If so, when Rudd arrived at the lectern with notes in hand, why didn't anyone say something? Whoever was in charge must have thought it OK as, evidently, did Rudd.

Are you alleging a conspiracy to embarrass Rudd?

that's your excuse??? no one was there to stop him like a naughty schoolboy?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Why would you NOT use notes??
Reply #32 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 1:54pm

# wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 1:52pm:

The one thing that's missing from this shouting match: http://images.theage.com.au/file/2013/08/12/4653668/debaterules.pdf?rand=1376255....
12. The Leaders may have a pen and paper on the lecturn and no other documentation or props.

I can see how Rudd might have missed the second-last bit, but why didn't anyone else notice?

They mistakenly believed that a PM campaigning on 'Trust Me' might be able to abide by the rules.

and now, THIS is the message from the debate: 'Rudd is a cheat'

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Karnal Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 96635	Re: Why would you NOT use notes?? Reply #33 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 2:00pm Only Mr Abbott can STOP THE BOATS.
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Verge Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6329 Gender:	Re: Why would you NOT use notes?? Reply #34 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 2:27pm I think to counter the unfair advantage at the first debate, in the second debate Rudd should be allowed to use his notes again, but Abbott should be allowed to use a powerpoint presentation.
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cods

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Re: Why would you NOT use notes??
Reply #35 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 2:34pm

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 1:54pm:

# wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 1:52pm:

The one thing that's missing from this shouting match: http://images.theage.com.au/file/2013/08/12/4653668/debaterules.pdf?rand=1376255....
12. The Leaders may have a pen and paper on the lecturn and no other documentation or props.

I can see how Rudd might have missed the second-last bit, but why didn't anyone else notice?

They mistakenly believed that a PM campaigning on 'Trust Me' might be able to abide by the rules.

and now, THIS is the message from the debate: 'Rudd is a cheat'

can anyone believe the excuses they come up with...

I think buzz made the wisest excuse..

it was the audiences fault..[go figure].. they should have booed or cheered which ever way is suitable for the PM...

how they knew he was cheating is something unexplained but I am sure the left would have a good one.....[explanation]...

we are going to be flat out remembering all these excuses when its the Libs turn... Grin

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cods

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Re: Why would you NOT use notes??
Reply #36 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 2:36pm

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 1:23pm:

RightSadFred wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 12:51pm:

longweekend58

Yes many speakers use notes ....... but the goods ones don't. You missed what I said, just because you speak publicly does not mean you are good at it ...... look at Gillard, she barks at people in a condescending manner.

The better speakers need very little, Rudd is claimed to be such a good speaker and Abbott they claim is not........ yet this debate showed Rudd has very little credibility.

FYI out of all the public events I have attended of many different styles ....... many of them are boring and very unprofessional, at a guess I think most people are uncomfortable at public speaking. This does not bother me much as these people often are not professional speakers but are highly credible people asked to have a say. A politician is a professional mouth piece and should have highly developed public speaking skills.

I disagree. we want our pollies to be good LEADERS not good speakers. We want good policy-makers, not after-dinner entertainment. A pollie should be able to acquit himself well in public speaking but by no means should he ben expected to be brilliant or even particularly good. Whiltam was a brilliant speaker and a poxy PM. Howard was an average public speaker but a great PM. The correlation simply isn't there.

gillard was a good speaker..and a poxy PM as well..LOL>>even her own side didnt like her. Roll Eyes

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Verge

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Re: Why would you NOT use notes??
Reply #37 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 2:41pm

cods wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 2:36pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 1:23pm:

RightSadFred wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 12:51pm:

longweekend58

Yes many speakers use notes ....... but the goods ones don't. You missed what I said, just because you speak publicly does not mean you are good at it ...... look at Gillard, she barks at people in a condescending manner.

The better speakers need very little, Rudd is claimed to be such a good speaker and Abbott they claim is not........ yet this debate showed Rudd has very little credibility.

FYI out of all the public events I have attended of many different styles ....... many of them are boring and very unprofessional, at a guess I think most people are uncomfortable at public speaking. This does not bother me much as these people often are not professional speakers but are highly credible people asked to have a say. A politician is a professional mouth piece and should have highly developed public speaking skills.

I disagree. we want our pollies to be good LEADERS not good speakers. We want good policy-makers, not after-dinner entertainment. A pollie should be able to acquit himself well in public speaking but by no means should he ben expected to be brilliant or even particularly good. Whiltam was a brilliant speaker and a poxy PM. Howard was an average public speaker but a great PM. The correlation simply isn't there.

gillard was a good speaker..and a poxy PM as well..LOL>>even her own side didnt like her. Roll Eyes

I thought the general critism of Gillard was she was a terrible public speaker and sounded and came across like a bogan?

My general feeling of the board was the right thought she was a terrible public speaker and the left just didnt say anything.

I do believe we have come to an important moment in your life Cods, you have just given Gillard a compliment, one many would say is an undeserving one. Hope you arent turning soft on us?

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And why not, if you will permit me; why shouldn’t I, if you will permit me; spend my first week as prime minister, should that happen, on this, on your, country - Abbott with the Garma People Aug 13

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cods

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Re: Why would you NOT use notes??
Reply #38 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 2:51pm

Verge wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 2:41pm:

cods wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 2:36pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 1:23pm:

[quote author=rtehve link=1376272068/19#19 date=1376275880]longweekend58

Yes many speakers use notes ....... but the goods ones don't. You missed what I said, just because you speak publicly does not mean you are good at it ...... look at Gillard, she barks at people in a condescending manner.

The better speakers need very little, Rudd is claimed to be such a good speaker and Abbott they claim is not........ yet this debate showed Rudd has very little credibility.

FYI out of all the public events I have attended of many different styles ....... many of them are boring and very unprofessional, at a guess I think most people are uncomfortable at public speaking. This does not bother me much as these people often are not professional speakers but are highly credible people asked to have a say. A politician is a professional mouth piece and should have highly developed public speaking skills.

I disagree. we want our pollies to be good LEADERS not good speakers. We want good policy-makers, not after-dinner entertainment. A pollie should be able to acquit himself well in public speaking but by no means should he ben expected to be brilliant or even particularly good. Whiltam was a brilliant speaker and a poxy PM. Howard was an average public speaker but a great PM. The correlation simply isn't there.

gillard was a good speaker..and a poxy PM as well..LOL>>even her own side didnt like her. Roll Eyes

I thought the general critism of Gillard was she was a terrible public speaker and sounded and came across like a bogan?

My general feeling of the board was the right thought she was a terrible public speaker and the left just didnt say anything.

I do believe we have come to an important moment in your life Cods, you have just given Gillard a compliment, one many would say is an undeserving one. Hope you arent turning soft on u

well there you go v erge we are on opposite sides thank god...

no she was good at talking look at the way she answered questions on the doorstep when she organised it.. [wilson]..not a blink not a breath did she take.. her voice was something else until you got used to it...but she could waffle on without a blush or a blink.. thats what I meant..of course most use those monitors now...so its hard to tell...

but when she was at her best she didnt draw breath look at her misogynist speech that is still talked about in the pubs..

btw I didnt say i liked what she said..LOL

I did say she was a poxy PM....and you agree well done.

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Verge Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6329 Gender:	Re: Why would you NOT use notes?? Reply #39 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 3:00pm I never said she was a good PM cods, I didnt even insinuate it. How did you get that out of me saying the general conscenious was she was terrible speaker and Im suprised you complimented her on it.
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buzzanddidj

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Re: Why would you NOT use notes??
Reply #40 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 3:35pm

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 1:27pm:

buzzanddidj wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 1:05pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 12:51pm:

Fit of Absent Mindeness wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 12:47pm:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q71/s720x720/1097982_4655...

What is Abbott using here?

That's it - his a cheat as well!

its like an exam. you are allowed to MAKE notes during it, but not allowed to bring them in with you.

RUBBISH !

( ... where did you pull THAT from)

it was part of the AGREED RULES to the debate!

NO
It WASN'T

Speech pointer notes are neither a "document" nor "other props"

( ... at least, this was the tacit ruling on both Rudd's AND Abbott's notes - by the adjudicator - from the beginning)

But BACK to my point - WHO declared debates between political leaders are run on
"like an exam"
RULES

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Lobo Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 7407 Sydney Gender:	Re: Why would you NOT use notes?? Reply #41 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 3:49pm cods wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 11:58am: maybe because HE SIGNED NOT TO USE NOTES THATS WHY Keep shouting like that, cods, and you'll have a heart attack.....
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red baron Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10204 Blue Mountains Gender:	Re: Why would you NOT use notes?? Reply #42 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 3:50pm If Rudd can't do it without notes as two times Prime Minister, then he should rack the cue.
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Verge

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Re: Why would you NOT use notes??
Reply #43 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 3:52pm

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 12:51pm:

Fit of Absent Mindeness wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 12:47pm:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q71/s720x720/1097982_4655...

What is Abbott using here?

That's it - his a cheat as well!

its like an exam. you are allowed to MAKE notes during it, but not allowed to bring them in with you.

You obviously never did a business degree, I had plenty of exams where we were allowed to take in textbooks with us. It was quite common. The reality was if you relied on the text book getting you through and not the preparation and study you wouldnt pass it any way as the use of the texts was merely for fact checking (eg as stated in the accounts there is a clear breach of AASB XXXX in the notes to accounts as they have elected to prepare their accounts net basis when they have included some items as a Gross. You had to know the relevant standard breach before you could look up the number.)

I guess the "notes contraversary" has prompted one thought bubble, that the pollies should only be allowed to refer to a 1 or 2 page sheet as prepared by someone like Treasury that has clear figures on things like debt, deficit, revenue, GDP, and a combination of the like. It should also include certain costings on things and cross checking.

If either man uses a figure different to the ones produced has their speech cut short.

For example if Abbott made a claim that debt is larger than Treasury has confirmed what it is. Mic cut off. If Rudd claims there is a 70 Billion black hole and Treasury has confirmed its half that. Cut off.

Make there be some punishment for speaking untruths.

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And why not, if you will permit me; why shouldn’t I, if you will permit me; spend my first week as prime minister, should that happen, on this, on your, country - Abbott with the Garma People Aug 13

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cods

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Re: Why would you NOT use notes??
Reply #44 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 3:59pm

Lobo wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 3:49pm:

cods wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 11:58am:

maybe because

HE SIGNED NOT TO USE NOTES THATS WHY

Keep shouting like that, cods, and you'll have a heart attack.....

well seeing such a stupid question is enough to make a saint swear...but take a look at the excuses they are getting longer and longer and brighter and brighter.. Cheesy

and the excuses are more bizarre...signing a document saying you would not take in notes is now not regarded as CHEATING..

v erge even claims its allowed.. my god I trust I never have brain surgery by someone who took all his text books into the finals.....

might as well get the old diploma on the web from America.. Grin

become a" brain surgeon in one week"..?? Sad

become a PM with no INTEGRITY..?? Angry

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