Australian Politics Forum - Why would you NOT use notes??

RightSadFred

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Re: Why would you NOT use notes??
Reply #60 - Aug 13^th, 2013 at 8:45am

Armchair_Politician

Not sure what the issue is here, its a debate with rules to ensure its a test of the leaders abilities not their researchers or media managers / spin doctors ....... that is the whole point of a debate.

If its a press release sure use notes .... no idea why most press releases are usually 10-15 minutes unless someone like Oakshit is doing them. If they ask you a question about some specific detail you can answer I need to get back to you on that ...... so even for a press release you really don't need notes.

The thread started with the proposition that you really should use notes somehow trying to justify what Rudd did was kind of ok ....... by every measure it was a dumb thing to do like eating your own ear wax, it did not work and it showed another insight into his grubby character. In practice for a short presentation it makes you look very unprofessional, even for a long snore-presentation it will only add to the boredom by robotically referring to notes.

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RightSadFred

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Re: Why would you NOT use notes??
Reply #61 - Aug 13^th, 2013 at 8:52am

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 11:17pm:

RightSadFred wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 9:03pm:

longweekend58

So you think its ok for an MP to be bad at publicly explaining policy and issues ?

You must of thought Gillard was doing an OK job.

Sorry their job involves public speaking, if I get a job as a cycle courier then you also need to get really good at bike riding.

Its a skill they should learn, they all get coaching for such, not sure what the deal is with Rudd.

there is a difference between being able to make your case in public and brilliant oratory. you don't have to be an awesome orator - just a competent speaker in public. The vast majority of speakers use notes. the few that don't are either wafflers or truly brilliant speakers.

longweekend58

So now your back pedalling ?

To be an effective political leader you need far superior media skills Like a Howard or a Hawke or even Fraser ...... look at the duds ..... Beazley, Latham, Keating, Gillard, Downer, Crean...... they were all useless in front of the media.

Most public speakers I see just use cue-cards, some use notes but they are the boring ones. Most MP's don't use anything in front of the camera, but that its usually a 5-10 minute speech at most.

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Verge Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6329 Gender:	Re: Why would you NOT use notes?? Reply #62 - Aug 13^th, 2013 at 9:31am It's not so much whether you have notes or you don't have notes. It's whether you have anything worth saying.
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longweekend58

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Re: Why would you NOT use notes??
Reply #63 - Aug 13^th, 2013 at 9:39am

RightSadFred wrote on Aug 13^th, 2013 at 8:52am:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 11:17pm:

RightSadFred wrote on Aug 12^th, 2013 at 9:03pm:

longweekend58

So you think its ok for an MP to be bad at publicly explaining policy and issues ?

You must of thought Gillard was doing an OK job.

Sorry their job involves public speaking, if I get a job as a cycle courier then you also need to get really good at bike riding.

Its a skill they should learn, they all get coaching for such, not sure what the deal is with Rudd.

there is a difference between being able to make your case in public and brilliant oratory. you don't have to be an awesome orator - just a competent speaker in public. The vast majority of speakers use notes. the few that don't are either wafflers or truly brilliant speakers.

longweekend58

So now your back pedalling ?

To be an effective political leader you need far superior media skills Like a Howard or a Hawke or even Fraser ...... look at the duds ..... Beazley, Latham, Keating, Gillard, Downer, Crean...... they were all useless in front of the media.

Most public speakers I see just use cue-cards, some use notes but they are the boring ones. Most MP's don't use anything in front of the camera, but that its usually a 5-10 minute speech at most.

no, Im saying the exact same thing I've always been saying and that is that having notes as a speaker is not only common, it is a good idea. Some people need them more than others but that does not detract from the quality of their speaking. Having notes is essential if you are quoting a lot of facts or have 15 points to your presentation. Some people with exceptional skills don't and wont use notes but they are a rarity. I don't think pollies have to be great orators and most aren't. They do however need to be adept at public speaking and most use notes.

I really don't see what you are banging on about.

PS Howard was a poor speaker and had very average media skills. That didn't stop him from being a great PM or of making speeches. But a Whitlam, Keating or Costello,, he wasn't.

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longweekend58 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 45675 Gender:	Re: Why would you NOT use notes?? Reply #64 - Aug 13^th, 2013 at 9:40am Verge wrote on Aug 13^th, 2013 at 9:31am: It's not so much whether you have notes or you don't have notes. It's whether you have anything worth saying. well said. notes are immaterial and Ive heard some of the best.
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RightSadFred

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Re: Why would you NOT use notes??
Reply #65 - Aug 13^th, 2013 at 9:43am

Verge wrote on Aug 13^th, 2013 at 9:31am:

It's not so much whether you have notes or you don't have notes. It's whether you have anything worth saying.

That is all that Abbott has to say....... I merely go further to say that his debate at best was benign even by the left wing twit bag measure cheating and winning is one thing ..... cheating and loosing is another. This suggest both lacking character and judgement which has been the one of the attacks the Libs have been using on the ALP.

As I said before I use to cheat all the time in Rugby but I would do it with purpose and with the assessment of my chances of getting away with it. But rugby is a game .... politics is real life so if you want to cheat you really need to make sure you can get away with it and the risk was worth it. If Rudd had really done a job on Abbott in the debate copping this flack over cheating might be worth it.

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Verge

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Re: Why would you NOT use notes??
Reply #66 - Aug 13^th, 2013 at 9:56am

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 13^th, 2013 at 9:40am:

Verge wrote on Aug 13^th, 2013 at 9:31am:

It's not so much whether you have notes or you don't have notes. It's whether you have anything worth saying.

well said. notes are immaterial and Ive heard some of the best.

What do you mean they are immaterial and you've heard some of the best? I dont quite follow?

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And why not, if you will permit me; why shouldn’t I, if you will permit me; spend my first week as prime minister, should that happen, on this, on your, country - Abbott with the Garma People Aug 13

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Fit of Absent Mindeness

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Re: Why would you NOT use notes??
Reply #67 - Aug 13^th, 2013 at 10:24am

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/take-note-cheating-claims-against-kevin-rudd-dont-stack-up/story-fnbcok0h-1226695869546

As most polls scored Sunday night's election debate as a win for Kevin Rudd, some commentators and Coalition MPs were quick to brand Rudd as a cheat for using "notes".

But the debate rules agreed to by the major parties do not prohibit the use of notes. In fact, they make no mention of "notes".

Rule 12 was clear: "The leaders may have a pen and paper on the lectern and no other documentation or props." Rudd was entitled to have paper notes, either written or typed.

This is the exact same rule that governed the 2010 debate when Julia Gillard squared off against Tony Abbott. And guess who used notes then? Abbott did. So if Rudd cheated in 2013, Abbott cheated in 2010.

I think you should have a becks and a good lie down!

We now know where Tony gets his policies from!

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Putting the n in cuts

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longweekend58

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Re: Why would you NOT use notes??
Reply #68 - Aug 13^th, 2013 at 11:51am

Verge wrote on Aug 13^th, 2013 at 9:56am:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 13^th, 2013 at 9:40am:

Verge wrote on Aug 13^th, 2013 at 9:31am:

It's not so much whether you have notes or you don't have notes. It's whether you have anything worth saying.

well said. notes are immaterial and Ive heard some of the best.

What do you mean they are immaterial and you've heard some of the best? I dont quite follow?

Ive heard good speakers, great speakers and lousy speakers. the use or otherwise of notes seems to have no impact.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Why would you NOT use notes??
Reply #69 - Aug 13^th, 2013 at 11:53am

Fit of Absent Mindeness wrote on Aug 13^th, 2013 at 10:24am:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/take-note-cheating-claims-against-kevin-rudd-dont-stack-up/story-fnbcok0h-1226695869546

As most polls scored Sunday night's election debate as a win for Kevin Rudd, some commentators and Coalition MPs were quick to brand Rudd as a cheat for using "notes".

But the debate rules agreed to by the major parties do not prohibit the use of notes. In fact, they make no mention of "notes".

Rule 12 was clear: "The leaders may have a pen and paper on the lectern and no other documentation or props." Rudd was entitled to have paper notes, either written or typed.

This is the exact same rule that governed the 2010 debate when Julia Gillard squared off against Tony Abbott. And guess who used notes then? Abbott did. So if Rudd cheated in 2013, Abbott cheated in 2010.

I think you should have a becks and a good lie down!

http://images.thevine.com.au/resources/VAR/000/033/we-tried-not-to-make-fun-of-t...

We now know where Tony gets his policies from!

what exactly do you think 'no other documentation' means??? I can assure you that everyone with an even passing understanding of English would call speaking notes as 'documentation'.

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« Last Edit: Aug 13^th, 2013 at 1:06pm by longweekend58 »

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