Australian Politics Forum - Prince Charles: Follow the Islamic Way, Save World

freediver

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Re: Prince Charles: Follow the Islamic Way, Save World
Reply #90 - Aug 16^th, 2013 at 8:51am

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I kind of thought its common knowledge that Israel is greening the desert. Israel "makes the desert bloom" has been a common cliche for as long as Israel has been around. But what you are suggesting makes far less sense - since its all desert it would have to be a case of both sides greening the desert (again, why would Egypt bother?), and on the Egyptian side, they went too far, causing it to go (back) to desert. Since neither you or Yadda has provided any evidence of Egypt not just cultivating the Sinai - but cultivating it to the point of it becoming barren - I think we can dismiss this theory.

I never said they cultivated it. My first thought was goat herding.

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And? The article adament posted shows that the Egyptians have more than enough arable land along the Nile and Nile delta

No gandalf, they do not have enough. They are importing food that they cannot afford.

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They work 12 hours a day, 6 days a week in gruelling conditions, and are paid a pittance - most of which they send to their families back home.

That's an odd thing for a slave to do.

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There is no concept of workers rights, unions are banned, and striking is illegal. Can you tell me any meaningful difference between this and "real" slavery?

Choice. They can choose whether to enter the country. They can choose whether to send most of their earnings back home. It might be a tough choice, but it is not the same as slavery. Not having western standards of employee protection law does not equate to slavery.

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I'm not sure why you scoff at this - I mean you were not shy to point out the UAE's primitiveness - yet somehow you are not prepared to call a spade a spade in regards to modern day slavery.

Actually, many of them do have genuine slaves. But I think it is illegal.

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Is it because it sits uncomfortably with your rosy world view of western countries causing their client states to turn away from slavery?

It doesn't "sit uncomfortably" at all. I'm just calling it as I see it. I still think they are primitive and that their treatment of these people is evidence of that. However the Muslim leaders have for example pointed out that these people are not slaves and thus the employers do not have a "right" to have sex with them whenever they want.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Prince Charles: Follow the Islamic Way, Save World
Reply #91 - Aug 16^th, 2013 at 3:30pm

freediver wrote on Aug 16^th, 2013 at 8:51am:

I never said they cultivated it. My first thought was goat herding.

Its a desert FD. They don't hvae to overgraze it for it too look like a desert. Its been desert since time immemorial. The only difference between the Israeli side and the Egyptian side is that the Israelis have improved it, the Egyptians have just left it as its always been.

freediver wrote on Aug 16^th, 2013 at 8:51am:

No gandalf, they do not have enough. They are importing food that they cannot afford

They do have enough - the problem is inefficient use, and competition from cash crops and biofuels. Either way its a moot point - it doesn't prove that this is the reason for the sinai looking less green than the Israeli side of the border.

freediver wrote on Aug 16^th, 2013 at 8:51am:

That's an odd thing for a slave to do

I agree. Traditionally, slaves are treated much much better - particularly the slaves in Muhammad's time.

freediver wrote on Aug 16^th, 2013 at 8:51am:

It doesn't "sit uncomfortably" at all. I'm just calling it as I see it. I still think they are primitive and that their treatment of these people is evidence of that. However the Muslim leaders have for example pointed out that these people are not slaves and thus the employers do not have a "right" to have sex with them whenever they want.

No, they just beat and abuse them, and attempt to kill them - and when they defend themselves, get executed by the state
(see recent case of Indonesian maid in Saudi Arabia).

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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Adamant

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Re: Prince Charles: Follow the Islamic Way, Save World
Reply #92 - Aug 16^th, 2013 at 4:41pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 16^th, 2013 at 3:30pm:

Its been desert since time immemorial

No it has not Gandalf.

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 16^th, 2013 at 3:30pm:

the problem is inefficient use

No, it is the laziness of the muslim who thinks the world owes him a living.

In around 46bc the tribute to Rome from North Africa in grain was around 50,000 tonnes over a period of about one hundred years the tribute rose to 500,000 tonnes that is TRIBUTE not actual production. In those days North Africa fed itself and many others. Today North Africa and all the Arab states produce 42 million tonnes yet they require 120 million tonnes.

I wonder what went wrong with muslim utopia?

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In real life Gandalf is known as Mr 10%

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True Colours

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Re: Prince Charles: Follow the Islamic Way, Save World
Reply #93 - Aug 16^th, 2013 at 5:47pm

Adamant wrote on Aug 16^th, 2013 at 4:41pm:

In around 46bc the tribute to Rome from North Africa in grain was around 50,000 tonnes over a period of about one hundred years the tribute rose to 500,000 tonnes that is TRIBUTE not actual production. In those days North Africa fed itself and many others. Today North Africa and all the Arab states produce 42 million tonnes yet they require 120 million tonnes.

Muslims increased grain production from 0.5 million tonnes to 42 million and you are still complaining.

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: Prince Charles: Follow the Islamic Way, Save World Reply #94 - Aug 16^th, 2013 at 8:48pm Adamant wrote on Aug 16^th, 2013 at 4:41pm: I wonder what went wrong with muslim utopia? A case of being randy fvckers beyond their means. The hair fetish has something to do with that. And being innocent of maths.
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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: Prince Charles: Follow the Islamic Way, Save World Reply #95 - Aug 16^th, 2013 at 9:03pm Adamant wrote on Aug 16^th, 2013 at 4:41pm: No it has not Gandalf. Yes it has adamant. At least show me some evidence to back up your claim.
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Quantum

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Re: Prince Charles: Follow the Islamic Way, Save World
Reply #96 - Aug 16^th, 2013 at 9:09pm

True Colours wrote on Aug 16^th, 2013 at 5:47pm:

Adamant wrote on Aug 16^th, 2013 at 4:41pm:

In around 46bc the tribute to Rome from North Africa in grain was around 50,000 tonnes over a period of about one hundred years the tribute rose to 500,000 tonnes that is TRIBUTE not actual production. In those days North Africa fed itself and many others. Today North Africa and all the Arab states produce 42 million tonnes yet they require 120 million tonnes.

Muslims increased grain production from 0.5 million tonnes to 42 million and you are still complaining.

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/HATERS+GONNA+HATE.+CHECK+DAT_fb2482_3271490.jpg

There are so many levels of stupid in that reply it is hard to know where to start. Maybe looking at the 2000 years of technology and development that should have seen an even greater increase? Perhaps the smaller quantity of man power then compared to now. How about the need verses the supply which throttled potential production back then? Or maybe something more basic, like comparing a tribute then to outright production now? No, I really don't know where to start...

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Adamant

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Re: Prince Charles: Follow the Islamic Way, Save World
Reply #97 - Aug 16^th, 2013 at 11:08pm

True Colours wrote on Aug 16^th, 2013 at 5:47pm:

Muslims increased grain production from 0.5 million tonnes to 42 million and you are still complaining

Spoken like a true Islamic dunce. Read TRIBUTE.

Tax payed to Rome in that period was between 1 to 3 % of income by people who did not live in Rome. Rome was a tax free City State. If 500,000 tonnes were 3% of production what is the figure you come up with for TOTAL production? ( Another question I wont get an answer to)

If Islam, over its time in North Africa increased production of grain as much as Rome did over the 100 years that I mentioned today they should be producing?
Yes calculators wont go that high!

polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 16^th, 2013 at 9:03pm:

Yes it has adamant. At least show me some evidence to back up your claim.

No it was not and I have no intention of proving it to you, search for yourself you lazy muslim.

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freediver

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Re: Prince Charles: Follow the Islamic Way, Save World
Reply #98 - Aug 17^th, 2013 at 8:56am

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Its a desert FD. They don't hvae to overgraze it for it too look like a desert. Its been desert since time immemorial. The only difference between the Israeli side and the Egyptian side is that the Israelis have improved it, the Egyptians have just left it as its always been.

Do you have any evidence of this? I am aware of Israel "greening the desert" but I doubt this means spreading their resources uniformly over the entire desert and rocky/hilly areas, as well as the Palestinian areas. Their goal is presumably food production, not lines on maps you can see from space. And the argument is not about whether it looks like a desert.

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They do have enough - the problem is inefficient use, and competition from cash crops and biofuels. Either way its a moot point - it doesn't prove that this is the reason for the sinai looking less green than the Israeli side of the border.

FFS, I have just spent the last few pages trying to explain that to you. You are the one insisting that the Nile delta somehow proves the Egyptians have no "need" to do anything in the Sinai. You bring it up pretty much every single post. You harp on and on about a moot point, seem oblivious when people try to explain to you that it is a moot point, but when even that turns out to contradict your argument then you start complaining that it is a moot point. Cheesy

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Muslims increased grain production from 0.5 million tonnes to 42 million and you are still complaining.

TC, are you having trouble with your reading comprehension or something? Adam even predicted your confusion and explicitly stated that that is not what happened.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Prince Charles: Follow the Islamic Way, Save World
Reply #99 - Aug 17^th, 2013 at 9:43am

freediver wrote on Aug 17^th, 2013 at 8:56am:

Do you have any evidence of this? I am aware of Israel "greening the desert" but I doubt this means spreading their resources uniformly over the entire desert and rocky/hilly areas, as well as the Palestinian areas. Their goal is presumably food production, not lines on maps you can see from space. And the argument is not about whether it looks like a desert.

Right, I see you are still talking about the entire border. .I reject that. The area closest to the coast - about 25% of the border - is pretty obviously greener because of cultivation. You can read into whatever you want about the rocky remainder - as far as I'm concerned its equally barren on either side. The fact that the border is visible means there is a visible border - not that it is different terrain on either side.

freediver wrote on Aug 17^th, 2013 at 8:56am:

FFS, I have just spent the last few pages trying to explain that to you. You are the one insisting that the Nile delta somehow proves the Egyptians have no "need" to do anything in the Sinai. You bring it up pretty much every single post. You harp on and on about a moot point, seem oblivious when people try to explain to you that it is a moot point, but when even that turns out to contradict your argument then you start complaining that it is a moot point

What this is about, if you haven't worked it out already, is its dead easy to reject what I was rejecting - Yadda's absurd claim that its lighter on the Egyptian side because of the big bad muslim's over cultivating and "raping" of their side of the border. There is no history at all that I can find of Egypt ever cultivating that area, let alone raping it. Its smacking sand dunes for f*cks sake. The only cultivation that happens in the Sinai is on the southern tip - mostly off that map.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Prince Charles: Follow the Islamic Way, Save World
Reply #100 - Aug 17^th, 2013 at 4:34pm

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Right, I see you are still talking about the entire border. .I reject that.

You are blind. I have offered you a litmus test for this.

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The area closest to the coast - about 25% of the border - is pretty obviously greener because of cultivation.

It's obviously greener. I would not say the reasons are obvious.

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The fact that the border is visible means there is a visible border - not that it is different terrain on either side.

Why is the border visible, if not for the different vegetation? Are you suggesting we can see the fenceline from space? Perhaps the photo was taken in winter and the Jewish side is darker because of the shadow of the enourmous fence? Those Jews are pretty cunning eh?

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What this is about, if you haven't worked it out already, is its dead easy to reject what I was rejecting - Yadda's absurd claim that its lighter on the Egyptian side because of the big bad muslim's over cultivating and "raping" of their side of the border.

Of course it is easy to say yadda is wrong, but it is not so easy to convince anyone.

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There is no history at all that I can find of Egypt ever cultivating that area

Goats. Just in case you miss it yet again I will repeat myself. Goats. Goats goats goats goats goats goats goats goats goats goats goats goats goats goats goats goats goats. Got it? Can we for once skip the stage where I spend 5 pages trying to get you to acknowledge a simple point?

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Its smacking sand dunes for f*cks sake.

That's what happens Gandalf. Did I mention the goats? Perhaps you don't know what they are:

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Prince Charles: Follow the Islamic Way, Save World
Reply #101 - Aug 17^th, 2013 at 6:22pm

freediver wrote on Aug 17^th, 2013 at 4:34pm:

Why is the border visible, if not for the different vegetation?

Its visible because you can see a white line along it. I don't know what this line is, but that clearly the border. Its not visible because its different terrain either side of it.

freediver wrote on Aug 17^th, 2013 at 4:34pm:

Of course it is easy to say yadda is wrong, but it is not so easy to convince anyone

New concept for you FD - burden of proof. Look it up.

freediver wrote on Aug 17^th, 2013 at 4:34pm:

That's what happens Gandalf. Did I mention the goats? Perhaps you don't know what they are:

Goats are not herded on sand dunes. Are you trying to be funny?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: Prince Charles: Follow the Islamic Way, Save World
Reply #102 - Aug 17^th, 2013 at 7:48pm

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Its visible because you can see a white line along it. I don't know what this line is, but that clearly the border.

I think that is one of the many goat tracks on the Egyptian side. There are lots of them, with a few relatively straight bits along parts of the border.

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Its not visible because its different terrain either side of it.

So now it is not visible? You can only see the border because of the invisible white line along it that marks the dramatic change in vegetation?

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New concept for you FD - burden of proof. Look it up.

I'm still trying to get you to see what is right in front of you. If a photo is not enough proof, I'm not sure what else to offer. Perhaps if I found a passage in the Koran predicting it then you would believe what you see?

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Goats are not herded on sand dunes. Are you trying to be funny?

No, they herd them along the remaining tracts of vegetation. Are you completely unfamiliar with the contribution made by goat herding to desertification? Is the only thing you know about this topic what you read in the Koran about the glorious Muslim reclamation of the desert?

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polite_gandalf

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Re: Prince Charles: Follow the Islamic Way, Save World
Reply #103 - Aug 17^th, 2013 at 9:02pm

freediver wrote on Aug 17^th, 2013 at 7:48pm:

I'm still trying to get you to see what is right in front of you. If a photo is not enough proof, I'm not sure what else to offer. Perhaps if I found a passage in the Koran predicting it then you would believe what you see?

The photo (supposedly) only proves that there is a difference in terrain. You said yourself you don't know why it is. Yadda came in with a completely baseless claim that it was because of over-cultivation. Its his claim, he needs to prove it.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 48921 At my desk.	Re: Prince Charles: Follow the Islamic Way, Save World Reply #104 - Aug 17^th, 2013 at 10:17pm Do you believe that goat herding contributes to desertification?
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