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Prince Charles: Follow the Islamic Way, Save World (Read 21133 times)
freediver
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Re: Prince Charles: Follow the Islamic Way, Save World
Reply #45 - Aug 14th, 2013 at 3:46pm
 
That fenceline provides a perfect comparison Gandalf. Comparing the Nile delta with the Israeli desert is utterly meaningless, though it is no surprise that you attempt to deflect to that. On the other hand comparing either side of the fenceline does tell you something. I'm not sure what the answer is yet, but I know for certain it is not "hey, look over there".

You might as well tell your neighbour who complains about the dust blowing out of your backyard that the important point is how green it is in the Amazon.

I'm not sure what your point is. Perhaps you think Muslims are responsible for building the Nile river and reclaiming the delta from the sea, but that fenceline is just an accident of geography.
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Re: Prince Charles: Follow the Islamic Way, Save World
Reply #46 - Aug 14th, 2013 at 4:13pm
 
Quantum wrote on Aug 14th, 2013 at 1:30pm:
And your entire argument is that if someone pisses in the desert it is no longer a desert. You are trying to find the smallest exception to disqualify the norm.


Smallest exceptions are all I need to debunk the stupid claims you were making. Do I need to requote to you exactly what you said?


Quote:
But plant a few trees in an area of hundreds of thousands of square km and the place is a shinning example of environment transformation.


The fact that there are a few trees being planted is enough to debunk your original claim, and expose it as nothing but stereotyping and prejudism. Remember what you said? "Nothing" growing except trash by the side of the road?

But really, whats this argument all about? Aggressive reforestation/environmental transformation by Israel - compared to the muslim states is proof of their superiority over the muslims - right? Thats the point you are trying to make. Its a kindergarten level argument that ignores the fact that most muslim countries already have a bountiful revenue source in natural resources - especially oil. Never mind that Israel has very little of this, and therefore is forced to engage in a more rigorous "greening" program to make up for their lack of resources. Gulf states have an extremely high standard of living, and do not pay any income taxes. So I'd say their comparitive lack of environmental transformation is due to the fact that they are doing fine without it.

Quote:
1300 years and this is the only evidence presented. You will have to do a lot better than that before you can claim BS on anything I've said.


If I showed you only one tree being planted by the Saudis, then that already makes your argument BS.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Karnal
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Re: Prince Charles: Follow the Islamic Way, Save World
Reply #47 - Aug 14th, 2013 at 4:24pm
 
True Colours wrote on Aug 14th, 2013 at 2:15pm:
Yadda wrote on Aug 13th, 2013 at 12:53pm:
Mark Twain visited Israel in 1867, and published his impressions in Innocents Abroad.  He described a desolate country – devoid of both vegetation and human population:


LOL

I am tempted to post this in the retarded islamophobes thread.

Yadda, you do realise that there was no Israel until 1948?  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin



Well, Israel means a struggle with G_d. Perhaps Y was referring to that.
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Re: Prince Charles: Follow the Islamic Way, Save World
Reply #48 - Aug 14th, 2013 at 4:40pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2013 at 3:46pm:
On the other hand comparing either side of the fenceline does tell you something. I'm not sure what the answer is yet, but I know for certain it is not "hey, look over there".


I'll tell you what it means FD - over half of the border is as the same darkness on both sides - as it is rocky, barren mountainous land. Of the remaining, about half of that is the Gaza strip - which as you lot are always at great pains to point out, is administered by the muslim Hamas. Perhaps you or Yadda can offer some profound analysis as to how the impoverished, penned up Gazans are so much more advanced than the Egyptians? And what of the remaining about 25% of the border in question? Perhaps that one side of the fence represents a critical part of one country's economy, while the other side represents an inconsequential extremity of another country?

Can you just think this through please FD? How many times the size of Israel is Egypt? The majority of Egypt is wasteland desert - including their eastern extremity where the Sinai Desert is. Yet the small strip of arable land they rely on is probably bigger than the entire state of Israel - I'm guessing. That is more than enough to support the Egyptian state - even with its significantly larger population. Compare this to Israel - no natural resources, and already contending with close to half of their country being the barren, non-arable expanse of the Negev desert. The great "mystery" of this contrasting borders, if you ask me, is quite simply the fact that one country have been forced through necessity to develop their side, while the other country on the other side simply don't need to worry too much about it - since their richness lies well west of that region.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Yadda
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Re: Prince Charles: Follow the Islamic Way, Save World
Reply #49 - Aug 14th, 2013 at 5:38pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2013 at 2:46pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 14th, 2013 at 11:53am:
Yadda wrote on Aug 14th, 2013 at 11:38am:
The borderline between Egypt and Israel, going from the Mediterranean sea to Elat, is visible from space.

The land is darker, more vegetated, on the Israel side.


Why so ?


Um.. because the image stops at the Sinai Desert? Extend the image just a bit more to the west and you will no doubt see the extemsive "darkness" of the Nile Delta. Also there is a pretty large expanse of "dark" to the east of Israel in Syria, and also to the north in Lebanon.


Good question Yadda. My first thought would be goats.





FD,

No argument.

Clearly the land along that border area, in Egypt, is being more heavily grazed.

But the contrast along that border, also is indicative of the contrast between how the Jewish people manage a resource, and how moslems manage the same resource.

i.e.
ISLAMIC culture would tend to allow 'righteous' ['can do no wrong'] moslems to always over exploit and 'rape' resources which fall under their control.

And the example along the Egypt/Israel border just highlights and is indicative of the difference between how Jewish culture and how ISLAMIC culture treats a natural resource like land - imo.i

Quote:
Gandalf, you have completely missed the point. Have another look at the picture and the question Yadda asked. The answer has nothing to do with where the image ends.


No FD, there is clearly a Zionist river under the land on the Israeli side of the border.

MY THEORY IS THAT those Zionists
are prolly siphoning off the water for their secret underground Zionist river, from the Egyptian Nile!!!

Those Zionists are stealing Egyptian water, for their secret Zionist river using a secret Zionist pipeline from Egypt!!

Honest!






ALSO,

Dontyaknow, that those Zionists have been training poisonous snakes to attack Palestinians.

We should more properly refer to these serpents as 'ZIONIST snakes'!


Israel Incites Snake Attacks

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/09/israel-incites-snake-attacks.html
Quote:

Arabs in Samaria have complained that attack snakes are being sent into the area from the Israeli city of Ariel, one woman has been bitten by one such snake. The local Palestinians base this accusation on the fact that a woman nearby to Ariel was bitten by a snake which witnesses say then fled back towards the city. The Palestinians interpreted the snake's heading as a clear indication that the reptile was a trained assassin working for Mossad.






Those ingenious, sneaky, dastardly Zionists!!!!!

Those Zionists are just too clever for us slaves of Allah!



Or, maybe the Zionists have cast spells on the snakes, with the aid of SATAN ?

Yes! That is it!!!!

SATAN is working with the Zionists, to attack the innocent moslems!

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Re: Prince Charles: Follow the Islamic Way, Save World
Reply #50 - Aug 14th, 2013 at 6:02pm
 
Yadda wrote on Aug 14th, 2013 at 5:38pm:
Clearly the land along that border area, in Egypt, is being more heavily grazed.


Or... it could be just untouched, unimproved desert... maybe?

Yadda wrote on Aug 14th, 2013 at 5:38pm:
SLAMIC culture would tend to allow 'righteous' ['can do no wrong'] moslems to always over exploit and 'rape' resources which fall under their control.


So the Sinai was once a flourishing garden of Eden was it? Until the muslims came along... Tongue

Y, do you have any evidence that the Sinai was EVER productive land, that has since been over exploited and "raped" into barrenness by the big bad muslims?

Yadda wrote on Aug 14th, 2013 at 5:38pm:
No FD, there is clearly a Zionist river under the land on the Israeli side of the border.


No, the Israelis have obviously worked very hard to "make the desert bloom" in that area - and they have evidently done a very good job, and should be commended. However what the Israelis do through necessity isn't in any way indicative of how productive or otherwise the muslims are on the other side of the fence - just because they choose not to develop one particular area of their country - because, unlike the Israelis, they have other more productive areas that are already developed and provide adequately for the people.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Quantum
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Re: Prince Charles: Follow the Islamic Way, Save World
Reply #51 - Aug 14th, 2013 at 6:04pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 14th, 2013 at 4:13pm:
Quantum wrote on Aug 14th, 2013 at 1:30pm:
And your entire argument is that if someone pisses in the desert it is no longer a desert. You are trying to find the smallest exception to disqualify the norm.


Smallest exceptions are all I need to debunk the stupid claims you were making. Do I need to requote to you exactly what you said?


Quote:
But plant a few trees in an area of hundreds of thousands of square km and the place is a shinning example of environment transformation.


The fact that there are a few trees being planted is enough to debunk your original claim, and expose it as nothing but stereotyping and prejudism. Remember what you said? "Nothing" growing except trash by the side of the road?

But really, whats this argument all about? Aggressive reforestation/environmental transformation by Israel - compared to the muslim states is proof of their superiority over the muslims - right? Thats the point you are trying to make. Its a kindergarten level argument that ignores the fact that most muslim countries already have a bountiful revenue source in natural resources - especially oil. Never mind that Israel has very little of this, and therefore is forced to engage in a more rigorous "greening" program to make up for their lack of resources. Gulf states have an extremely high standard of living, and do not pay any income taxes. So I'd say their comparitive lack of environmental transformation is due to the fact that they are doing fine without it.

Quote:
1300 years and this is the only evidence presented. You will have to do a lot better than that before you can claim BS on anything I've said.


If I showed you only one tree being planted by the Saudis, then that already makes your argument BS.


You are a particularly special breed of stupid aren't you. You complain about kindergarten stuff, read what you have above.

"Smallest exceptions are all I need to debunk the stupid claims you were making."

Really?

* Can someone say Australia is hot? Not when you're around. It snows in Australia.
* Can someone say Australia is dry? Not when you're around. It rains in Australia.
* Can someone say Russia is cold? Not when you're around. They get hot days in Russia.
* Can someone say Siberia is full of trees? Not when you're around. There are some areas where there are no trees.
* Can we say that the Arctic is made of Ice? Not when you're around. There are some rocks up there as well.

Any more stupid examples needed? Your idea that you need just one tiny example to disqualify the norm is beyond retarded. More retarded is when you are changing the subject!

"The fact that there are a few trees being planted is enough to debunk your original claim,"

"I'd say their comparitive lack of environmental transformation is due to the fact that they are doing fine without it"

"If I showed you only one tree being planted by the Saudis, then that already makes your argument BS."


Forgetting what this is about so quickly? The tree planting was supposed to be for religious reasons to be environmental. Did you forget the opening post? The original claim was that Islam says to plant trees, hence Islam is good for the environment.

* 1 Tree would not be proof of that being put into practice!
* A small park would not be proof of this being put into practice!
* Economical reasons would not excuse neglecting this command!
* The fact that there are areas that have had trees there for thousands of years does not show this being put into practice!

Do I need to make it clearer?

* True colours argument is that Islam is environmentally friendly because it plants tress.
* My argument is that you can go all over the Middle east and you won't see this tree planting happening (except in Israel)
* Your argument is that if the Saudis plant just one smacking tree then that proves True Colours claim.

You are so desperate to argue in the favour of Islam you don't even know what the bugger it is you are arguing about.



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Re: Prince Charles: Follow the Islamic Way, Save World
Reply #52 - Aug 14th, 2013 at 6:07pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 14th, 2013 at 4:40pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2013 at 3:46pm:
On the other hand comparing either side of the fenceline does tell you something. I'm not sure what the answer is yet, but I know for certain it is not "hey, look over there".


I'll tell you what it means FD - over half of the border is as the same darkness on both sides - as it is rocky, barren mountainous land. Of the remaining, about half of that is the Gaza strip - which as you lot are always at great pains to point out, is administered by the muslim Hamas. Perhaps you or Yadda can offer some profound analysis as to how the impoverished, penned up Gazans are so much more advanced than the Egyptians? And what of the remaining about 25% of the border in question? Perhaps that one side of the fence represents a critical part of one country's economy, while the other side represents an inconsequential extremity of another country?

Can you just think this through please FD? How many times the size of Israel is Egypt? The majority of Egypt is wasteland desert - including their eastern extremity where the Sinai Desert is. Yet the small strip of arable land they rely on is probably bigger than the entire state of Israel - I'm guessing. That is more than enough to support the Egyptian state - even with its significantly larger population. Compare this to Israel - no natural resources, and already contending with close to half of their country being the barren, non-arable expanse of the Negev desert. The great "mystery" of this contrasting borders, if you ask me, is quite simply the fact that one country have been forced through necessity to develop their side, while the other country on the other side simply don't need to worry too much about it - since their richness lies well west of that region.


You can see the difference along the entire fenceline Gandalf. Not just part of it. Are you suggesting that Israel is putting all of that desert to some sort of use in a way that makes it greener, whereas Egypt's side is more arid because they ignore it?

Your concepts of "forcing" sound good until you scratch the surface. The fact is, the Egyptians are dirt poor. If anyone is feeling a need to exploit every inch of what they can, it would be them. Having 50 million people crammed into another part of the country that gets a bit more water doesn't really change that. There is no "richness" drawing everyone away so no-one pays attention to it, just shared poverty in greater and lesser human concentrations.
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Re: Prince Charles: Follow the Islamic Way, Save World
Reply #53 - Aug 14th, 2013 at 6:48pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2013 at 6:07pm:
You can see the difference along the entire fenceline Gandalf. Not just part of it.


Really? I must be having problems with my sight then. Here it is again:

...

I reckon about 75% of that border is identical on both sides - ie where all the rocks and mountains are. I'm pretty sure no agricultural improvements have been going on there - either side of the border.

freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2013 at 6:07pm:
Are you suggesting that Israel is putting all of that desert to some sort of use in a way that makes it greener, whereas Egypt's side is more arid because they ignore it?


Thats exactly what I'm saying - in the small part that you can actually see a difference. Funnily enough, the Gazans seem to be doing the same. Maybe something to do with both the Gazans and Israelis not having much choice about what land they need to use?

freediver wrote on Aug 14th, 2013 at 6:07pm:
Your concepts of "forcing" sound good until you scratch the surface. The fact is, the Egyptians are dirt poor. If anyone is feeling a need to exploit every inch of what they can, it would be them. Having 50 million people crammed into another part of the country that gets a bit more water doesn't really change that. There is no "richness" drawing everyone away so no-one pays attention to it, just shared poverty in greater and lesser human concentrations.


I have no idea what point you are trying to make. Does anyone actually live in the Sinai? What evidence is there that the region has been over-exploited - or exploited at all? The vast majority of Egyptians live along the Nile Delta - I've never heard of that area being so overused that they need to start exploiting the Sinai (a tiny part of the country) to ease the burden on the Nile. Have you? Yadda seems to think its been "raped" to the point of being unusable. Is there any evidence that they have exploited that area at all - let alone "raped"??
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Prince Charles: Follow the Islamic Way, Save World
Reply #54 - Aug 14th, 2013 at 6:56pm
 
Quote:
I reckon about 75% of that border is identical on both sides - ie where all the rocks and mountains are.


Take a closer look. Start by asking yourself how you know so easily where the border is.

Quote:
I have no idea what point you are trying to make. Does anyone actually live in the Sinai?


There must be someone out there doing something to make a difference you can see from space.

Quote:
What evidence is there that the region has been over-exploited - or exploited at all?


Like I said, I don't have the answer to that. We're still arguing over whether there is a difference and whether it really matters.

Quote:
The vast majority of Egyptians live along the Nile Delta - I've never heard of that area being so overused that they need to start exploiting the Sinai


It's not an all or nothing thing Gandalf. It's not like they'll one day realise the delta is overcrowded and that all 80 million of them should move into the desert. It's like you are arguing that there is no farming in Tasmania because the nightlife is better in Sydney.

Quote:
Is there any evidence that they have exploited that area at all - let alone "raped"??


Yes Gandalf, the photo.
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Re: Prince Charles: Follow the Islamic Way, Save World
Reply #55 - Aug 14th, 2013 at 7:11pm
 
Quantum wrote on Aug 14th, 2013 at 6:04pm:
You are a particularly special breed of stupid aren't you. You complain about kindergarten stuff, read what you have above.

"Smallest exceptions are all I need to debunk the stupid claims you were making."

Really?

* Can someone say Australia is hot? Not when you're around. It snows in Australia.
* Can someone say Australia is dry? Not when you're around. It rains in Australia.
* Can someone say Russia is cold? Not when you're around. They get hot days in Russia.
* Can someone say Siberia is full of trees? Not when you're around. There are some areas where there are no trees.
* Can we say that the Arctic is made of Ice? Not when you're around. There are some rocks up there as well.


No, comparable statements would be:

- Australia is entirely hot
- Australia is entirely dry
- There are no areas in Sibera where there are no trees

etc etc...

Again, what you said:

Quote:
There is no tree planting going on
anywhere
.


Quote:
The only thing growing
in the land of Islam is a collection of plastic bottles and rubbish along the side of the roads.


No tree planting going on anywhere in the muslim world - none, nada, zilch. I therefore have to show you just one tree being planted to disprove this statement.

Nothing growing in the land of islam except plastic bottles and rubbish - no plant life growing - none, nada, zilch. I therefore have to show you just one plant growin in the land of islam to disprove this statement.

Am I getting through yet?

You have of course accepted the absurdity of your claim by talking now about such plant life being an insignificant exception to the rule - though you refuse to acknowledge this openly.

But who cares right? Your point is clearly that planting and revegetation is not the islamic world's strong point. Fair enough. But your original BS claim betrays classic prejudism that is expressed through outrageous stereotypes ("all black people are stupid", "all jews are crooks" - and "all muslims are unclean and don't give a hoot about the environment"). Once your stereotypes are blown out of the water, the prejudices that those stereotypes are based on, are called into some serious questioning.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Prince Charles: Follow the Islamic Way, Save World
Reply #56 - Aug 14th, 2013 at 7:41pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 14th, 2013 at 7:11pm:
Quantum wrote on Aug 14th, 2013 at 6:04pm:
You are a particularly special breed of stupid aren't you. You complain about kindergarten stuff, read what you have above.

"Smallest exceptions are all I need to debunk the stupid claims you were making."

Really?

* Can someone say Australia is hot? Not when you're around. It snows in Australia.
* Can someone say Australia is dry? Not when you're around. It rains in Australia.
* Can someone say Russia is cold? Not when you're around. They get hot days in Russia.
* Can someone say Siberia is full of trees? Not when you're around. There are some areas where there are no trees.
* Can we say that the Arctic is made of Ice? Not when you're around. There are some rocks up there as well.


No, comparable statements would be:

- Australia is entirely hot
- Australia is entirely dry
- There are no areas in Sibera where there are no trees

etc etc...

Again, what you said:

Quote:
There is no tree planting going on
anywhere
.


Quote:
The only thing growing
in the land of Islam is a collection of plastic bottles and rubbish along the side of the roads.


No tree planting going on anywhere in the muslim world - none, nada, zilch. I therefore have to show you just one tree being planted to disprove this statement.

Nothing growing in the land of islam except plastic bottles and rubbish - no plant life growing - none, nada, zilch. I therefore have to show you just one plant growin in the land of islam to disprove this statement.

Am I getting through yet?

You have of course accepted the absurdity of your claim by talking now about such plant life being an insignificant exception to the rule - though you refuse to acknowledge this openly.

But who cares right? Your point is clearly that planting and revegetation is not the islamic world's strong point. Fair enough. But your original BS claim betrays classic prejudism that is expressed through outrageous stereotypes ("all black people are stupid", "all jews are crooks" - and "all muslims are unclean and don't give a hoot about the environment"). Once your stereotypes are blown out of the water, the prejudices that those stereotypes are based on, are called into some serious questioning.


Is there a particular reason why discussing anything with Muslims on this forum is impossible? Even here we needed 2 pages to get down to the heart of the issue. Your ridiculous reading of the word "anywhere" and "the only thing" to be taken as absolutes.

Do you enjoy making an idiot of yourself? Do you think that proving a smart arse comment as being literally wrong is some kind of victory? The fact that you took my "The only thing growing.... rubbish along the side of the road" comment as something that need to be disproved by showing one tree growing is laughable. It was a provoking comment that is not supposed to be taken literally to that extreme. A normal English speaking Australian would know that of course, so I'm not surprised you didn't get it.

At the end of two pages, it seems all this was just looking for an argument to deflect pressure off your brother TC's BS comments. There is no mass tree planting effort in the name of Islam. Islam therefore is in no way helping the environment through tree planting. That doesn't mean that it is necessary damaging the environment (yet if you actually do go there you will see the streets and rivers are indeed full of rubbish), but it certainly is not helping the environment with trees as TC claims.      
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Re: Prince Charles: Follow the Islamic Way, Save World
Reply #57 - Aug 14th, 2013 at 8:11pm
 
Quantum wrote on Aug 14th, 2013 at 7:41pm:
Even here we needed 2 pages to get down to the heart of the issue. Your ridiculous reading of the word "anywhere" and "the only thing" to be taken as absolutes.


Prejudice is born from these absolutes. Its not a trivial matter. Debunking these stereotypes is critical to exposing prejudice for what it is - ignorant bigotry that has little basis in fact.

Quantum wrote on Aug 14th, 2013 at 7:41pm:
There is no mass tree planting effort in the name of Islam


Isn't there? Depends on your definition of "mass". TC posted quite a few pictures of what looked liked fairly substantial tree planting projects. I have also found other projects in the UAE and Syria. Google tree planting in the arab world, and its fairly clear that there is quite a bit of awareness amongst arabs, and quite a few projects are both being implemented and in the pipeline. The evidence suggests that your portrayal of a trash-infested barren arab world, where there is no interest in environmental issues, is dubious at best.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: Prince Charles: Follow the Islamic Way, Save World
Reply #58 - Aug 14th, 2013 at 9:08pm
 
Have you figured out where the border is yet gandalf?
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Re: Prince Charles: Follow the Islamic Way, Save World
Reply #59 - Aug 14th, 2013 at 9:57pm
 
Yes I have FD - it is clearly visible.

Here you go, perhaps this will help. I have added an arrow where I think the light/dark contrast becomes visible on the border. South of that arrow is just as dark on either side of the border as far as I'm concerned. I also added another marker to point out another area of greenery - this is in Syria. Does this mean that Syria is awesome like Israel?

...

Also this might be useful:

...

Map of all of Egypt. Notice the great big patch of green along the Nile, especially at the top? Thats the heart and soul of Egypt - not the Sinai. I have also added a marker to show the same Israeli-Egypt border position from the original image.

Again, do you have any evidence that the Sinai on the Egyptian side of the border was ever over-exploited or "raped" by muslims to make it unfarmable? No. The Sinai was never farmed - cultivated or grazed. It has a population of less than a million, and tourism is almost its sole industry.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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