Australian Politics Forum - Abbott is wrong to rule out GST changes

bogarde73

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Abbott is wrong to rule out GST changes
Aug 13^th, 2013 at 9:47am

I was absolutely opposed to the GST coming in, being indoctrinated with economic theory on regressive taxation. But at the same time I was aware of the need for the states to have a large growth tax instead of the motley collection of taxes they previously relied on.
However it's here now and it's not going away.
The fact is whatever govt comes to power is faced with massive budgetary problems. Contrary to the opinions of the financially-challenged, debt has to paid down while at the same time financing growing demands on govts for infrastructure, health, education etc.
The only practical way to manage this problem is by a mixture of spending restraint and moderate taxation increase.
I can understand why neither federal party wants to go near GST. For a start the money goes to the states, so they would get all the aggro and none of the benefit of having the money to spend. But having the states spend the monye is not a sin and anyway the GST agreement is capable of amendment so that some portion could come to the Commonwealth.
It's not rocket science. If you want govt to do things they have to have the money.
What's important is they don't waste it when they've got it.

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Dnarever

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Re: Abbott is wrong to rule out GST changes
Reply #1 - Aug 13^th, 2013 at 10:04am

Abbott is wrong to rule out GST changes

Who knows if he really did, he was talking off the cuff with no notes ? In a debate under pressure he has told us to not believe what he is saying unless it is in writing.

The fact is that the Liberals are going to do a full tax assessment and have specifically included the GST. So what Tony said under pressure is not documented and in fact the opposite is the case, the evidence is saying that they will look at the GST with a view to change.

I personally do not think they will raise the GST but changes to it are an almost certainty which means that Abbott has told a lie when that becomes the case.

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bogarde73 Gold Member Offline Anti-Global & Contra Mundum Posts: 18443 Gender:	Re: Abbott is wrong to rule out GST changes Reply #2 - Aug 13^th, 2013 at 10:08am Well I would say it's a good thing if he gets tax on the table as opposed to Rudd who only wants to put more & more spending on the table, although I think he has been digging deep in his pocket and finding there's nothing left.
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RightSadFred

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Re: Abbott is wrong to rule out GST changes
Reply #3 - Aug 13^th, 2013 at 10:14am

bogarde73

Correct me if I am wrong, Abbott stated there are no plans to change the GST, all they stated was they were looking at a raft of taxes to be reviewed with possible changes (which might be the GST) targeted in a possible second term agenda.

So in that context its a a whole bunch of if, might's, maybes. Given Rudd morally opposed the GST in the first place, its been well over a decade and he has not done anything about it ...... I can't see what his argument is.

So once you introduce a tax it should never be removed or changed ???? I mean according to the ALP.

Its a very odd political argument, so why make changes to the carbon tax ?

I prefer that just change the GST rate as opposed to introducing new taxes ...... that is the plus side of broad-based taxes.

The GST also needs to be broader which in theory it could be made less.

This is all contextual against taxes that can be removed like stamp duty on cars / houses and others.

To never change something suggests you think it was perfectly designed in the first place.

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Swagman

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Re: Abbott is wrong to rule out GST changes
Reply #4 - Aug 13^th, 2013 at 10:49am

Quote:

Abbott is wrong to rule out GST changes

I agree.

Labor use the GST as a scare tactic but if it's so bad why haven't they rolled it back? They've had 2 terms to do so the hypocrites.

The GST can be increased as an alternative to increasing interest rates IMO.

With lots of baby boomers set to retire the proportion of tax payers to welfare free loaders is going to decline. The GST will have to go up eventually to pay for them.

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skippy. Gold Member Offline Posts: 20882 Gender:	Re: Abbott is wrong to rule out GST changes Reply #5 - Aug 13^th, 2013 at 10:56am The GST should be Increased to around 15% ,but only on the proviso that the tax free threshold is at least doubled.
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RightSadFred

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Re: Abbott is wrong to rule out GST changes
Reply #6 - Aug 13^th, 2013 at 11:19am

skippy. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2013 at 10:56am:

The GST should be Increased to around 15% ,but only on the proviso that the tax free threshold is at least doubled.

I think they should increase it to 20% and eliminate personal tax completely ...... why tax productivity ?

Clearly Rudd is on another Dudd with this GST attack if even someone as vacant as you thinks its a politically dumb idea.

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perceptions_now

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Re: Abbott is wrong to rule out GST changes
Reply #7 - Aug 13^th, 2013 at 11:30am

I would suggest that the GST should be part of a very wide ranging review of Taxes & indeed the wider whole of government system!

My view is, the GST should be increased increased, whilst other taxes are reduced or done away with altogether, with the prime aim being to stabilize the system, as much as will be possible over the next several decades & make the whole system more Productive!

A good place to START this SYSTEM WIDE REVIEW would be the Henry Tax Review BUT the review must not be purely on the Tax system, IT MUST BE A WHOLE OF GOVERNMENT REVIEW, WITH NOTHING BEING OFF LIMITS & ALL POLLIES MUST BEAR IN MIND AT ALL TIMES THAT THE BASIC AIM IS THE BEST, LONG TERM INTERESTS OF ALL AUSTRALIANS, not their own short term interests & those of their supporters!

In terms of whether anything has been ruled in or out, by the Libs or by Labor, I would suggest only time will tell, as history suggests REALITY HAS A WAY OF OVERTAKING THE BEST/WORST LAID PLANS of mice & men/women?

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perceptions_now

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Re: Abbott is wrong to rule out GST changes
Reply #8 - Aug 13^th, 2013 at 11:47am

RightSadFred wrote on Aug 13^th, 2013 at 11:19am:

skippy. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2013 at 10:56am:

The GST should be Increased to around 15% ,but only on the proviso that the tax free threshold is at least doubled.

I think they should increase it to 20% and eliminate personal tax completely ...... why tax productivity ?

Clearly Rudd is on another Dudd with this GST attack if even someone as vacant as you thinks its a politically dumb idea.

Fred,
That may need "a little" refining, as there are some 5-6 million Baby Boomers, some of which have already retired & many more to start over the next 10-15 years and their capacity to generate extra income is very limited (read zero - negative).

Even IF the Local & Global Economy doesn't turn "completely pear shaped", which is very likely, these boomers are very likely to have a much reduced income than they would have expected, due to the decline in "share earnings" since 2007 & the much lower interest rates that are now on offer & which seem unlikely to rise much, if any at all, for many years!

Current & future circumstances will require a very carefully designed balancing act, with very specific targets & the Boomers must certainly be a large of any considerations, as they are such a large part of what drives the Local & Global Economy & great care will be needed to ensure the Boomers are not sent crashing, as that would send the whole Economy crashing!

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buzzanddidj

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Re: Abbott is wrong to rule out GST changes
Reply #9 - Aug 13^th, 2013 at 12:27pm

RightSadFred wrote on Aug 13^th, 2013 at 10:14am:

Correct me if I am wrong, Abbott stated there are no plans to change the GST

Tony Abbott
ALSO pledged there would be "no new taxes under a government I lead"
- and within weeks announced plans for a

GREAT BIG NEW TAX

( ... hitting FAR more businesses than carbon permits) to pay for his $3000 a week parental leave for the rich scheme

RightSadFred wrote on Aug 13^th, 2013 at 10:14am:

Given Rudd morally opposed the GST in the first place, its been well over a decade and he has not done anything about it ...... I can't see what his argument is.

So once you introduce a tax it should never be removed or changed ???? I mean according to the ALP.

If you worked in a retail environment ( ... which I DID, at the time) you would appreciate the ENORMOUS cost of introducing, altering or removing a retail tax - in new POS hardware, software and repricing EVERY ITEM of stock

( ... One of MY best pay weeks, was as part of a 12 hour night shift team doing this part - and TRUST ME - NOTHING came down by 30% sales tax before GST was added)

PLUS - in the case of larger chains - the creation of a new GST Management department

Do you think those costs were ABSORBED ?

The one off increase in retail prices - in that quarter - was SO GREAT, special legislation had it left off the CPI

To now REMOVE it - would be JUST as INFLATIONARY

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« Last Edit: Aug 13^th, 2013 at 12:33pm by buzzanddidj »

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De-registered User Gold Member Offline Posts: 1029	Re: Abbott is wrong to rule out GST changes Reply #10 - Aug 13^th, 2013 at 5:01pm So what!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It has openly been announced that there will be no change to the GST under a Abbott government! Are you people thick or what? It's not the bullshitting labor government we are talking about here!
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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Abbott is wrong to rule out GST changes Reply #11 - Aug 13^th, 2013 at 5:02pm skippy. wrote on Aug 13^th, 2013 at 10:56am: The GST should be Increased to around 15% ,but only on the proviso that the tax free threshold is at least doubled. I agree.
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