Australian Politics Forum - Why Labor is in deficit.

Karnal

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Re: Why Labor is in deficit.
Reply #15 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 2:07pm

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 1:31pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 1:14pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 1:01pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 12:33pm:

Tony's stuffed then

Quote:

The Coalition says it will forgo what the PEFO estimates as at least $9.6 billion of carbon revenue and $3.7 billion of mining tax revenue, as well as $1.8 billion of fringe benefits tax (FBT) on cars, while keeping $4 billion a year of personal tax cuts and welfare payments.

It is also now going to match Labor on school funding, having previously argued it would save $3.2 billion over four years by not doing so, and will fund a paid parental leave scheme it costed last election at $4.5 billion.

It says it will cut company tax at a cost of $5 billion a year. It has pledged infrastructure spending of $17 billion without saying how much is new money.

Quote:

By comparison, the Coalition’s proposed savings look anaemic: a $1 billion saving from “red tape”; $500 million a year from cutting the humanitarian migration intake. It says it will reap $1.8 billion from an extra efficiency dividend on a public service already facing big cuts under Labor.

It says it will save $1.1 billion from not continuing an income supplement and $1 billion a year from ending the low-income super contribution. It says it will save $1.1 billion from 2016-17 by delaying increased compulsory super.

Quote:

In short, its commitments add up to well in excess of $40 billion,

yet its

proposed savings, on the kindest of estimates, would be lucky to amount to $15 billion.

That is a big hole to fill.

http://www.afr.com/p/national/pefo_asks_the_question_no_one_wants_U4wrjntGIVyGFz...

when did you turn into a regurgitating labor apologist? you've throw away any semblance of being a credible critic since you ONLY attack Abbott. as if Rudd hasn't got 500 targets painted on him and you cant find any?

Why not complain about Labors election promises and policies or rather the fact that THERE ARENT ANY.

I could equally ask when you became a Lib apologist, but that's all in the past.

We all know THERE AREN'T ANY Liberal election promises or policies. Smithy's post exposes Abbott's position entirely: vote Coalition and the deficit will be in a worst state than it is today. It has to be - the numbers don't add up. They're billions out.

The Libs are stalling, pretending they have a team of accountants working around the clock to get us the numbers before election day.

They don't, and they won't. Abbott and Hockey have no experience managing a budget, and are in exactly the same position as Labor with falling revenues. They can only but run a deficit, and when they do they'll simply blame Labor.

The next election is entirely predictable - look at the mess Labor left the economy in: Pink batts, school halls. Only the Libs can be trusted to manage the tough economic times we find ourselves in thanks to Labor's mismanagement, etc, etc, etc.

This is why the Libs won't release their costings. They don't add up, they won't add up, and they'll simply blame Labor when they're inevitably in the red.

And this is GOOD economic management?

hey, you cant have it both ways. You are saying the coalitions numbers don't add up and then complain that they haven't released their numbers. You need to find a consistent theme there.

Their policies and tax cuts don't add up.

Would you like to avoid this topic in the interest of a poorer Australia with a higher deficit? You've been complaining about Labor spending for 6 years.

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True Colours Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2837 Gender:	Re: Why Labor is in deficit. Reply #16 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 2:07pm Many economists will tell you that there are times when governments should run deficits. In light of the GFC, and the subsequent end to the resources boom, the economy needs the government to run a surplus. Australia has done fairly well under Labor in a difficult global environment: OECD Public Debt 2012
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longweekend58

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Re: Why Labor is in deficit.
Reply #17 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 5:00pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 1:40pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 1:29pm:

and you want to give this vacuous hole your vote???

No I do not

I wanted to vote for Gillard

Someone who truly gave a sh!t about Australia, not just Corporate Australia.

Frankly if I'm honest my ballot will read bugger you, & I'll vote Pirate Party in the Senate just to niggle you Wink

On the assumption that you are male I question how you think Gillard cared about you? Towards the end she made it very clear that she hates men and will promote women above men at any opportunity. I think you are one of the very few with a penis that thinks Gillard was governing for them. Vote pirate party if you want. It will end up with Labor anyhow.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Why Labor is in deficit.
Reply #18 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 5:01pm

John Smith wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 2:03pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 1:09pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 1:05pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 12:18pm:

To quote Alan Kohler...

"Australian national government is currently running at a $30 billion loss because the average annual growth in revenue fell from 7.4 per cent in the decade to 2007 to 4 per cent over the following six years, while spending growth kicked up from an average of 6.2 to 8 per cent a year."

The drop in revenue excuse is false. The rate of increase in Revenue has slowed but only to the extent that it is lower than the time of the mining boom. Responsible govt would have factored in reduced revenue. Treasury were stupid enough to continue to predict pre-GFC revenues to continue but a clever Treasurer would have known to downgrade their estimates. But in an environment of reducing revenues what does Labor do? Increase the rate of spending growth by 20%.

the fundamental problem with Labors budget is simple: bad forecasting, too much spending.

What's tony going to cut?

dunno. but it will be more than Rudd cuts because Labor are incapable of doing that or did you not read the quote?

If you 'dunno'... how can you say it will be more than Rudds? Your really are an idiot ....

Still blowing smoke out of your arse I see Longy ....

that comprehension problem of yours really does mess you around. why can you not understand the implicit argument here? Why do you have to be so continually and so obviously DENSE.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Why Labor is in deficit.
Reply #19 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 7:31pm

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 1:34pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 1:20pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 1:09pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 1:05pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 12:18pm:

To quote Alan Kohler...

"Australian national government is currently running at a $30 billion loss because the average annual growth in revenue fell from 7.4 per cent in the decade to 2007 to 4 per cent over the following six years, while spending growth kicked up from an average of 6.2 to 8 per cent a year."

The drop in revenue excuse is false. The rate of increase in Revenue has slowed but only to the extent that it is lower than the time of the mining boom. Responsible govt would have factored in reduced revenue. Treasury were stupid enough to continue to predict pre-GFC revenues to continue but a clever Treasurer would have known to downgrade their estimates. But in an environment of reducing revenues what does Labor do? Increase the rate of spending growth by 20%.

the fundamental problem with Labors budget is simple: bad forecasting, too much spending.

What's tony going to cut?

dunno. but it will be more than Rudd cuts because Labor are incapable of doing that or did you not read the quote?

. So labor offers cuts. Liberals refuse to support. Offer nothing in return. And don't tell us anything. But you claim they will do more cuts and will have a better budget outcome. You really have become a complete fool whilst following the wankjob and his merrry band of morons. The tea party consists of people with more reality than you.

I think you could make a case that Abbott couldn't possibly manage things worse than Rudd. After all Rudd has presided over the biggest debt, the worst 6 deficits and the largest number of epic policy failures EVER. Abbott however has served in australias most successful govt.

I think without any other details - such as policy and costings - (which we don't have from either side), Abbott is clearly the better choice. Abbott might not have any runs on the board but Rudd is out for a duck as well as running out his partner. why do you want to give him another innings?

Delusion thy name is longie, Australia's tea party leader.

The government had had deficit and a current debt. Tony claims its too much and would cut and return to surplus. It's a simple question: what are the cut? He refuses to support any and announce any. Are we to believe a man without any idea will do a good job? Maybe it's a daddy moment?

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Winston Smith

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Re: Why Labor is in deficit.
Reply #20 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 7:53pm

Great to see our political debate constantly bogged down in the minutiae of economic management, gambling on predictions made in a fundamentally unpredictable world. The truth of the matter is, both parties are out of their depth and the Australian economy has been swept up in global events.

The tragedy of it is that many voters will actually believe the Liberals can balance the budget, when the whole thing is starting to snowball out of control. So it comes down to the sort of political ideology and tone you want to set for the future, when the sh!t really starts to hit the fan and we are having emergency powers delegated to the government of the day when austerity/crisis hits and the real belt tighening and soul searching begins.

As far as the average battler is concerned, Labor will be the lesser of the two evils in this scenario.

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longweekend58

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Re: Why Labor is in deficit.
Reply #21 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 8:30pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 7:31pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 1:34pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 1:20pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 1:09pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 1:05pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 12:18pm:

To quote Alan Kohler...

"Australian national government is currently running at a $30 billion loss because the average annual growth in revenue fell from 7.4 per cent in the decade to 2007 to 4 per cent over the following six years, while spending growth kicked up from an average of 6.2 to 8 per cent a year."

The drop in revenue excuse is false. The rate of increase in Revenue has slowed but only to the extent that it is lower than the time of the mining boom. Responsible govt would have factored in reduced revenue. Treasury were stupid enough to continue to predict pre-GFC revenues to continue but a clever Treasurer would have known to downgrade their estimates. But in an environment of reducing revenues what does Labor do? Increase the rate of spending growth by 20%.

the fundamental problem with Labors budget is simple: bad forecasting, too much spending.

What's tony going to cut?

dunno. but it will be more than Rudd cuts because Labor are incapable of doing that or did you not read the quote?

. So labor offers cuts. Liberals refuse to support. Offer nothing in return. And don't tell us anything. But you claim they will do more cuts and will have a better budget outcome. You really have become a complete fool whilst following the wankjob and his merrry band of morons. The tea party consists of people with more reality than you.

I think you could make a case that Abbott couldn't possibly manage things worse than Rudd. After all Rudd has presided over the biggest debt, the worst 6 deficits and the largest number of epic policy failures EVER. Abbott however has served in australias most successful govt.

I think without any other details - such as policy and costings - (which we don't have from either side), Abbott is clearly the better choice. Abbott might not have any runs on the board but Rudd is out for a duck as well as running out his partner. why do you want to give him another innings?

Delusion thy name is longie, Australia's tea party leader.

The government had had deficit and a current debt. Tony claims its too much and would cut and return to surplus. It's a simple question: what are the cut? He refuses to support any and announce any. Are we to believe a man without any idea will do a good job? Maybe it's a daddy moment?

Let's imagine for a moment that I am in the inner circle of the budget oommittee in liberal HQ....

nah... how about.. I DONT KNOW. which doesn't mean THEY don't know.

Tell you what. When Kev the Cheat gives us his costings for his policies then we ill argue bout this. until then, you are just being hypocritical in demanding of one side what you don't demand from the other.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Karnal

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Re: Why Labor is in deficit.
Reply #22 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 8:46pm

Imagine? Is that what you want us to.do?

My advice is to mistrust both of them. Don’t imagine anything. Longy just wants you to vote Liberal so they’ll shaft you, just like Labor. Only they’ll blame Labor for it.

And Longy will keep on pretending.

THEY don’t know? They only have the biggest accounting firm in Australia working for them.

Prepare for 3 years of being shafted, leftards.

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Why Labor is in deficit.
Reply #23 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 8:48pm

Karnal wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 8:46pm:

Imagine? Is that what you want us to.do?

My advice is to mistrust both of them. Don’t imagine anything. Longy just wants you to vote Liberal so they’ll shaft you, just like Labor. Only they’ll blame Labor for it.

And Longy will keep on pretending.

Prepare for 3 years of being shafted, leftards.

To be fair, imagining is how longie lives. A true tea party man.

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sir prince duke alevine

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Re: Why Labor is in deficit.
Reply #24 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 8:54pm

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 8:30pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 7:31pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 1:34pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 1:20pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 1:09pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 1:05pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 12:18pm:

To quote Alan Kohler...

"Australian national government is currently running at a $30 billion loss because the average annual growth in revenue fell from 7.4 per cent in the decade to 2007 to 4 per cent over the following six years, while spending growth kicked up from an average of 6.2 to 8 per cent a year."

The drop in revenue excuse is false. The rate of increase in Revenue has slowed but only to the extent that it is lower than the time of the mining boom. Responsible govt would have factored in reduced revenue. Treasury were stupid enough to continue to predict pre-GFC revenues to continue but a clever Treasurer would have known to downgrade their estimates. But in an environment of reducing revenues what does Labor do? Increase the rate of spending growth by 20%.

the fundamental problem with Labors budget is simple: bad forecasting, too much spending.

What's tony going to cut?

dunno. but it will be more than Rudd cuts because Labor are incapable of doing that or did you not read the quote?

. So labor offers cuts. Liberals refuse to support. Offer nothing in return. And don't tell us anything. But you claim they will do more cuts and will have a better budget outcome. You really have become a complete fool whilst following the wankjob and his merrry band of morons. The tea party consists of people with more reality than you.

I think you could make a case that Abbott couldn't possibly manage things worse than Rudd. After all Rudd has presided over the biggest debt, the worst 6 deficits and the largest number of epic policy failures EVER. Abbott however has served in australias most successful govt.

I think without any other details - such as policy and costings - (which we don't have from either side), Abbott is clearly the better choice. Abbott might not have any runs on the board but Rudd is out for a duck as well as running out his partner. why do you want to give him another innings?

Delusion thy name is longie, Australia's tea party leader.

The government had had deficit and a current debt. Tony claims its too much and would cut and return to surplus. It's a simple question: what are the cut? He refuses to support any and announce any. Are we to believe a man without any idea will do a good job? Maybe it's a daddy moment?

Let's imagine for a moment that I am in the inner circle of the budget oommittee in liberal HQ....

nah... how about.. I DONT KNOW. which doesn't mean THEY don't know.

Tell you what. When Kev the Cheat gives us his costings for his policies then we ill argue bout this. until then, you are just being hypocritical in demanding of one side what you don't demand from the other.

Labor costings? The budget is right there for you to look at

Now when will daddy moment release his costings for his ready plans? It's all ready! Why is he holding out?

Less imaging mr teaman

more reality. Your daddy moment wankjob has no idea. Just daddy moments.

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John Smith

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Re: Why Labor is in deficit.
Reply #25 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 8:59pm

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 5:01pm:

John Smith wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 2:03pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 1:09pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 1:05pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 12:18pm:

To quote Alan Kohler...

"Australian national government is currently running at a $30 billion loss because the average annual growth in revenue fell from 7.4 per cent in the decade to 2007 to 4 per cent over the following six years, while spending growth kicked up from an average of 6.2 to 8 per cent a year."

The drop in revenue excuse is false. The rate of increase in Revenue has slowed but only to the extent that it is lower than the time of the mining boom. Responsible govt would have factored in reduced revenue. Treasury were stupid enough to continue to predict pre-GFC revenues to continue but a clever Treasurer would have known to downgrade their estimates. But in an environment of reducing revenues what does Labor do? Increase the rate of spending growth by 20%.

the fundamental problem with Labors budget is simple: bad forecasting, too much spending.

What's tony going to cut?

dunno. but it will be more than Rudd cuts because Labor are incapable of doing that or did you not read the quote?

If you 'dunno'... how can you say it will be more than Rudds? Your really are an idiot ....

Still blowing smoke out of your arse I see Longy ....

that comprehension problem of yours really does mess you around. why can you not understand the implicit argument here? Why do you have to be so continually and so obviously DENSE.

you realise that claiming others don't understand, every time they call you on some dumb comment you've made, is not an argument don't you?

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Dnarever

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Re: Why Labor is in deficit.
Reply #26 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 9:36pm

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 1:01pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 12:33pm:

Tony's stuffed then

Quote:

The Coalition says it will forgo what the PEFO estimates as at least $9.6 billion of carbon revenue and $3.7 billion of mining tax revenue, as well as $1.8 billion of fringe benefits tax (FBT) on cars, while keeping $4 billion a year of personal tax cuts and welfare payments.

It is also now going to match Labor on school funding, having previously argued it would save $3.2 billion over four years by not doing so, and will fund a paid parental leave scheme it costed last election at $4.5 billion.

It says it will cut company tax at a cost of $5 billion a year. It has pledged infrastructure spending of $17 billion without saying how much is new money.

Quote:

By comparison, the Coalition’s proposed savings look anaemic: a $1 billion saving from “red tape”; $500 million a year from cutting the humanitarian migration intake. It says it will reap $1.8 billion from an extra efficiency dividend on a public service already facing big cuts under Labor.

It says it will save $1.1 billion from not continuing an income supplement and $1 billion a year from ending the low-income super contribution. It says it will save $1.1 billion from 2016-17 by delaying increased compulsory super.

Quote:

In short, its commitments add up to well in excess of $40 billion,

yet its

proposed savings, on the kindest of estimates, would be lucky to amount to $15 billion.

That is a big hole to fill.

http://www.afr.com/p/national/pefo_asks_the_question_no_one_wants_U4wrjntGIVyGFz...

when did you turn into a regurgitating labor apologist? you've throw away any semblance of being a credible critic since you ONLY attack Abbott. as if Rudd hasn't got 500 targets painted on him and you cant find any?

Why not complain about Labors election promises and policies or rather the fact that THERE ARENT ANY. Stop expecting Abbott to do something you don't expect Labor to do.

when did you turn into a regurgitating labor apologist? you've throw away any semblance of being a credible

You seem to say something similar to anyone who clearly shows something to be true that you don't like.

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perceptions_now

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Re: Why Labor is in deficit.
Reply #27 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 10:19pm

True Colours wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 2:07pm:

Many economists will tell you that there are times when governments should run deficits.

In light of the GFC, and the subsequent end to the resources boom, the economy needs the government to run a surplus.

Australia has done fairly well under Labor in a difficult global environment:

OECD Public Debt 2012

http://www.factsfightback.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/banner-750x380-debt-...

It says quite a bit about Longy's argument that he won't/can't answer the logic of such a simple & accurate statement, instead he does a Maqqa & avoids the real substantive discussions!

The fact is that in the Real world, Economics has had a time & a place for both Deficits, Stimilus & much more.

Normally, in modern Economics, it is a complicated world, it is certainly not as simple as "you must always run at a Budget Surplus".

But now, it is even more complicated than usual, because now there are 3 unique factors influencing events & even the Economic standards used by Austrian & Keynesian Economics are now likely to fail!

Not that Longy &/or Maqqa have idea about what is happening, but they are in good company, because neither does the Liberal or Labor party's!

When it comes to current Economics both Longy & Maqqa, truly have NFI!!!

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Grendel Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 28080 Gender:	Re: Why Labor is in deficit. Reply #28 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 10:35pm The answer is very simple the Labor government is spending more than it is raising. There is no revenue shortfall... in comparison to the Howard Government the Labor Government is pulling in more revenue. However it is spending much more than the revenue it is raising.
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De-registered User

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Re: Why Labor is in deficit.
Reply #29 - Aug 14^th, 2013 at 10:43pm

Grendel wrote on Aug 14^th, 2013 at 10:35pm:

The answer is very simple the Labor government is spending more than it is raising.
There is no revenue shortfall... in comparison to the Howard Government the Labor Government is pulling in more revenue.
However it is spending much more than the revenue it is raising.

http://barnabyisright.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/bq-q4decaaalegc.jpg

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
pointless, labor supporters simply do not understand the meaning of wreckless spending.

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