Australian Politics Forum - Enough is ENOUGH!!

Emma

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Re: Enough is ENOUGH!!
Reply #90 - Aug 19^th, 2013 at 11:47pm

I agree with #

There is no 'Golden Rule' that says governments are best to seek a surplus, in spite of anything else. That is just rubbish.

Why people in the street worry their heads about it is beyond me. They think they should get less.. from the govt THEY put into POWER, for THEIR benefit, so that these pollies can say they're in SURPLUS.??
Since when has being 'in surplus' been the primary goal of government?... government of the people by the people for the people. ! Roll Eyes

Government is NOT a BUSINESS ...whatever you are lead to believe.

Government is ABOVE business... or should be.
( NOT LATELY !) Angry

This shift in direction for Australian governmental ethos occurred during the Howard yrs.
Labor FAILED to retain it's integrity. ... and bought into the whole globalisation, laissez-faire approach..
They WENT along with workplace agreements, for example.
I told Gibson and Jenny George at the time... wrong path ...
but they thought Labor had to jump on board the new BUSINESS model Bandwagon....... Tongue

Hack Hack Puke

And here we are boys and girls.

It is interesting to have lived long enough to be able to look back , in some depth, and see the changes/non-changes that have led to NOW.

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longweekend58

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Re: Enough is ENOUGH!!
Reply #91 - Aug 19^th, 2013 at 11:50pm

Emma wrote on Aug 19^th, 2013 at 11:47pm:

I agree with #

There is no 'Golden Rule' that says governments are best to seek a surplus, in spite of anything else. That is just rubbish.

Why people in the street worry their heads about it is beyond me. They think they should get less.. from the govt THEY put into POWER, for THEIR benefit, so that these pollies can say they're in SURPLUS.??
Since when has being 'in surplus' been the primary goal of government?... government of the people by the people for the people. ! Roll Eyes

Government is NOT a BUSINESS ...whatever you are lead to believe.

Government is ABOVE business... or should be.
( NOT LATELY !) Angry

This shift in direction for Australian governmental ethos occurred during the Howard yrs.
Labor FAILED to retain it's integrity. ... and bought into the whole globalisation, laissez-faire approach..
They WENT along with workplace agreements, for example.
I told Gibson and Jenny George at the time... wrong path ...
but they thought Labor had to jump on board the new BUSINESS model Bandwagon....... Tongue

Hack Hack Puke

And here we are boys and girls.

It is interesting to have lived long enough to be able to look back , in some depth, and see the changes/non-changes that have led to NOW.

how do you think things get paid for??? Ever wondered about that? IM guessing no.

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Emma Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9853 OZ Gender:	Re: Enough is ENOUGH!! Reply #92 - Aug 20^th, 2013 at 12:12am err that'd be TAX.!!
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Quantum Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 3373	Re: Enough is ENOUGH!! Reply #93 - Aug 20^th, 2013 at 12:15am Emma wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 12:12am: err that'd be TAX.!! Why bother? Just keep going into the red forever. Apparently it doesn't matter if you spend more than you got.
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Emma

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Re: Enough is ENOUGH!!
Reply #94 - Aug 20^th, 2013 at 12:52am

Qube...
I think you'd find... IF you looked... that Governments in SURPLUS as a rule of the day.....are virtually NON-EXISTENT ..AROUND the WORLD, historically... AND presently.

This current touted philosophy of govt budget surplus is just a smacking furphy.. a red herring...

a pile of crap.. in other words..

Show me ONE country, where a government has run a surplus for decades.. YOU WONT FIND ONE... nor should you.

Government IS NOT about profit, surplus etc.. its about looking after, and caring for the people who voted them in.

Shiote on surplus,, when Australians live hungry on the streets, and the mentally ill are abandoned, along with the aged.,.and the young brain-damaged..not to mention un-supported returned vets....
a SURPLUS is more important to you ...

and you and your foul ilk blame other victims for it.
Bunch of feckless opinionated ignorant biased creeps.

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Emma

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Re: Enough is ENOUGH!!
Reply #95 - Aug 20^th, 2013 at 1:00am

how do you think things get paid for??? Ever wondered about that? IM guessing no. [/quote]

See ? Longgoneawaybush??

TAX ... tax pays.... ...
having a surplus means.... more tax is paid than spent. More Income is received than expenditure.
( Basically...)

NOW ... get real here OK??
IF...
IF we are in surplus... there should be NO OUTSTANDING national need for government assistance,... anywhere on the this land.
So... Surplus means more to our pollies, than the welfare (that means WELL-BEING Angry

) of the people.

Is that so hard to understand.??

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Quantum

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Re: Enough is ENOUGH!!
Reply #96 - Aug 20^th, 2013 at 1:07am

Emma wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 12:52am:

Qube...
I think you'd find... IF you looked... that Governments in SURPLUS as a rule of the day.....are virtually NON-EXISTENT ..AROUND the WORLD, historically... AND presently.

This current touted philosophy of govt budget surplus is just a smacking furphy.. a red herring...

a pile of crap.. in other words..

Show me ONE country, where a government has run a surplus for decades.. YOU WONT FIND ONE... nor should you.

Government IS NOT about profit, surplus etc.. its about looking after, and caring for the people who voted them in.

Shiote on surplus,, when Australians live hungry on the streets, and the mentally ill are abandoned, along with the aged.,.and the young brain-damaged..not to mention un-supported returned vets....
a SURPLUS is more important to you ...

Then I ask again, why bother with tax?

Why sell any infrastructure? For that matter, if the government owns something, why charge money for the use of it? Land rates, water, electricity, public transport, phone/internet etc. If it is still government owned, why charge for anything?

What is the point of collecting any money for anything if a government intends to just borrow/print whatever it needs without end? Think about it.

Quote:

and you and your foul ilk blame other victims for it.
Bunch of feckless opinionated ignorant biased creeps.

1:00am... still a judgemental total smacking bitch to anyone who dares make you think about something from another perspective.

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Emma

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Re: Enough is ENOUGH!!
Reply #97 - Aug 20^th, 2013 at 1:17am

Quantum wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 1:07am:

Emma wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 12:52am:

Qube...
I think you'd find... IF you looked... that Governments in SURPLUS as a rule of the day.....are virtually NON-EXISTENT ..AROUND the WORLD, historically... AND presently.

This current touted philosophy of govt budget surplus is just a smacking furphy.. a red herring...

a pile of crap.. in other words..

Show me ONE country, where a government has run a surplus for decades.. YOU WONT FIND ONE... nor should you.

Government IS NOT about profit, surplus etc.. its about looking after, and caring for the people who voted them in.

Shiote on surplus,, when Australians live hungry on the streets, and the mentally ill are abandoned, along with the aged.,.and the young brain-damaged..not to mention un-supported returned vets....
a SURPLUS is more important to you ...

Then I ask again, why bother with tax?

Why sell any infrastructure? For that matter, if the government owns something, why charge money for the use of it? Land rates, water, electricity, public transport, phone/internet etc. If it is still government owned, why charge for anything?

What is the point of collecting any money for anything if a government intends to just borrow/print whatever it needs without end? Think about it.

Quote:

and you and your foul ilk blame other victims for it.
Bunch of feckless opinionated ignorant biased creeps.

1:00am... still a judgemental total smacking bitch to anyone who dares make you think about something from another perspective

.

THINK ABOUT IT?? I have .. long time.. hey I worked for TREASURY.. Do you understand THAT.?

Perhaps YOU might explain , then... how the country runs...??

Your reply makes no sense ....
.. what would you suggest as an alternative.??

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Emma

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Re: Enough is ENOUGH!!
Reply #98 - Aug 20^th, 2013 at 1:22am

And ER... you talk selling infrastructure...??

that is irrelevant...
except where it relates to the ' business model ' of government... where making a profit is all that matters..
.. rather than the government providing the services which are its raison d'etre.
Why have a GOVERNMENT at all...according to you?? lets just pay business people for everything. What is your point...??

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Quantum

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Re: Enough is ENOUGH!!
Reply #99 - Aug 20^th, 2013 at 1:33am

Emma wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 1:17am:

Quantum wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 1:07am:

Emma wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 12:52am:

Qube...
I think you'd find... IF you looked... that Governments in SURPLUS as a rule of the day.....are virtually NON-EXISTENT ..AROUND the WORLD, historically... AND presently.

This current touted philosophy of govt budget surplus is just a smacking furphy.. a red herring...

a pile of crap.. in other words..

Show me ONE country, where a government has run a surplus for decades.. YOU WONT FIND ONE... nor should you.

Government IS NOT about profit, surplus etc.. its about looking after, and caring for the people who voted them in.

Shiote on surplus,, when Australians live hungry on the streets, and the mentally ill are abandoned, along with the aged.,.and the young brain-damaged..not to mention un-supported returned vets....
a SURPLUS is more important to you ...

Then I ask again, why bother with tax?

Why sell any infrastructure? For that matter, if the government owns something, why charge money for the use of it? Land rates, water, electricity, public transport, phone/internet etc. If it is still government owned, why charge for anything?

What is the point of collecting any money for anything if a government intends to just borrow/print whatever it needs without end? Think about it.

Quote:

and you and your foul ilk blame other victims for it.
Bunch of feckless opinionated ignorant biased creeps.

1:00am... still a judgemental total smacking bitch to anyone who dares make you think about something from another perspective

.

THINK ABOUT IT?? I have .. long time.. hey I worked for TREASURY.. Do you understand THAT.?

I don't believe that, but it would explain a lot about this country.

Quote:

Perhaps YOU might explain , then... how the country runs...??

Your reply makes no sense ....
.. what would you suggest as an alternative.??

Your argument is that surplus is not needed and is in fact a bad thing. Your argument is also that debt doesn't matter and that every government runs in debt. So why even have a budget if none of it matters? Why collect money for anything if the amount of debt doesn't matter?

Lets put it in simple terms;

Government collects $5 in tax
Government spends $10
Government spent $5 more than it has
Budget is now $5 over.
The country is now in $5 debt.

Following so far? good. So why collect the $5 tax is the first place. Just go $10 over budget. According to you the debt means sweet bugger all anyway, so why even bother having any income through taxes?

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Emma

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Re: Enough is ENOUGH!!
Reply #100 - Aug 20^th, 2013 at 2:09am

Quantum wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 1:33am:

Emma wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 1:17am:

Quantum wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 1:07am:

Emma wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 12:52am:

Qube...
I think you'd find... IF you looked... that Governments in SURPLUS as a rule of the day.....are virtually NON-EXISTENT ..AROUND the WORLD, historically... AND presently.

This current touted philosophy of govt budget surplus is just a smacking furphy.. a red herring...

a pile of crap.. in other words..

Show me ONE country, where a government has run a surplus for decades.. YOU WONT FIND ONE... nor should you.

Government IS NOT about profit, surplus etc.. its about looking after, and caring for the people who voted them in.

Shiote on surplus,, when Australians live hungry on the streets, and the mentally ill are abandoned, along with the aged.,.and the young brain-damaged..not to mention un-supported returned vets....
a SURPLUS is more important to you ...

Then I ask again, why bother with tax?

Why sell any infrastructure? For that matter, if the government owns something, why charge money for the use of it? Land rates, water, electricity, public transport, phone/internet etc. If it is still government owned, why charge for anything?

What is the point of collecting any money for anything if a government intends to just borrow/print whatever it needs without end? Think about it.

Quote:

and you and your foul ilk blame other victims for it.
Bunch of feckless opinionated ignorant biased creeps.

1:00am... still a judgemental total smacking bitch to anyone who dares make you think about something from another perspective

.

THINK ABOUT IT?? I have .. long time.. hey I worked for TREASURY.. Do you understand THAT.?

I don't believe that, but it would explain a lot about this country.

Quote:

Perhaps YOU might explain , then... how the country runs...??

Your reply makes no sense ....
.. what would you suggest as an alternative.??

Your argument is that surplus is not needed and is in fact a bad thing. Your argument is also that debt doesn't matter and that every government runs in debt. So why even have a budget if none of it matters? Why collect money for anything if the amount of debt doesn't matter?

Lets put it in simple terms;

Government collects $5 in tax
Government spends $10
Government spent $5 more than it has
Budget is now $5 over.
The country is now in $5 debt.

Following so far? good. So why collect the $5 tax is the first place. Just go $10 over budget. According to you the debt means sweet bugger all anyway, so why even bother having any income through taxes?

?? your logic eludes me.. in fact ..your lack of logic astounds me.
Your alternative...?? Nope ? don't have one..?

So the Country just trundles along, and somehow, magically things are done.. roads are paid for,, health care is funded,, from some OTHER source?
Perhaps you think Business donates all this?? Roll Eyes

I ask again... HOW would YOU fund necessary infrastructure ??
Donations from the public..??? Cheesy

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Emma

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Re: Enough is ENOUGH!!
Reply #101 - Aug 20^th, 2013 at 2:28am

lets try another analogue

Say ... you purchase a home under a contract with one of our world record profiteering Banks ...

..you don't actually have $450,000 dollars lying around... in fact.. you have never had that much cash on hand in your whole working life...
so..

you borrow money..from one of our world record banks, on the understanding that access to that money has a COST. That cost includes admin fees, stamp duty, legal expenses, interest.. etc.

With me so far..??

You now have responsibility for paying for that asset you have acquired..because it gives you and your loved ones shelter..and you have an expectation that over time, your expenditure and on-going upkeep expenses will result in your owning an asset worth far in excess of the original price you paid, and the on-going expenses.
This means you are a good consumer, who pays on time and who has positive assets.

SO .. this model is not representative of government process.. this is not analogous.
Nor is business profit .
WHY...??

Perhaps if you think about it.. you might get the answer.

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Quantum

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Re: Enough is ENOUGH!!
Reply #102 - Aug 20^th, 2013 at 8:17am

Emma wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 2:09am:

Quantum wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 1:33am:

Emma wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 1:17am:

Quantum wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 1:07am:

Emma wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 12:52am:

Qube...
I think you'd find... IF you looked... that Governments in SURPLUS as a rule of the day.....are virtually NON-EXISTENT ..AROUND the WORLD, historically... AND presently.

This current touted philosophy of govt budget surplus is just a smacking furphy.. a red herring...

a pile of crap.. in other words..

Show me ONE country, where a government has run a surplus for decades.. YOU WONT FIND ONE... nor should you.

Government IS NOT about profit, surplus etc.. its about looking after, and caring for the people who voted them in.

Shiote on surplus,, when Australians live hungry on the streets, and the mentally ill are abandoned, along with the aged.,.and the young brain-damaged..not to mention un-supported returned vets....
a SURPLUS is more important to you ...

Then I ask again, why bother with tax?

Why sell any infrastructure? For that matter, if the government owns something, why charge money for the use of it? Land rates, water, electricity, public transport, phone/internet etc. If it is still government owned, why charge for anything?

What is the point of collecting any money for anything if a government intends to just borrow/print whatever it needs without end? Think about it.

Quote:

and you and your foul ilk blame other victims for it.
Bunch of feckless opinionated ignorant biased creeps.

1:00am... still a judgemental total smacking bitch to anyone who dares make you think about something from another perspective

.

THINK ABOUT IT?? I have .. long time.. hey I worked for TREASURY.. Do you understand THAT.?

I don't believe that, but it would explain a lot about this country.

Quote:

Perhaps YOU might explain , then... how the country runs...??

Your reply makes no sense ....
.. what would you suggest as an alternative.??

Your argument is that surplus is not needed and is in fact a bad thing. Your argument is also that debt doesn't matter and that every government runs in debt. So why even have a budget if none of it matters? Why collect money for anything if the amount of debt doesn't matter?

Lets put it in simple terms;

Government collects $5 in tax
Government spends $10
Government spent $5 more than it has
Budget is now $5 over.
The country is now in $5 debt.

Following so far? good. So why collect the $5 tax is the first place. Just go $10 over budget. According to you the debt means sweet bugger all anyway, so why even bother having any income through taxes?

?? your logic eludes me.. in fact ..your lack of logic astounds me.
Your alternative...?? Nope ? don't have one..?

So the Country just trundles along, and somehow, magically things are done.. roads are paid for,, health care is funded,, from some OTHER source?
Perhaps you think Business donates all this?? Roll Eyes

I ask again... HOW would YOU fund necessary infrastructure ??
Donations from the public..??? Cheesy

FFS, how thick are you?

I am not advocating any change. I am not giving an alternative. I am not saying to stop tax. What I'm asking you is what is the point of taxes or charging anyone for services if debt doesn't matter? If a government can just keep spending more than what it has got, why bother getting any in the first place?

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Re: Enough is ENOUGH!!
Reply #103 - Aug 20^th, 2013 at 8:32am

Emma wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 2:09am:

Quantum wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 1:33am:

Emma wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 1:17am:

Quantum wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 1:07am:

Emma wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 12:52am:

Qube...
I think you'd find... IF you looked... that Governments in SURPLUS as a rule of the day.....are virtually NON-EXISTENT ..AROUND the WORLD, historically... AND presently.

This current touted philosophy of govt budget surplus is just a smacking furphy.. a red herring...

a pile of crap.. in other words..

Show me ONE country, where a government has run a surplus for decades.. YOU WONT FIND ONE... nor should you.

Government IS NOT about profit, surplus etc.. its about looking after, and caring for the people who voted them in.

Shiote on surplus,, when Australians live hungry on the streets, and the mentally ill are abandoned, along with the aged.,.and the young brain-damaged..not to mention un-supported returned vets....
a SURPLUS is more important to you ...

Then I ask again, why bother with tax?

Why sell any infrastructure? For that matter, if the government owns something, why charge money for the use of it? Land rates, water, electricity, public transport, phone/internet etc. If it is still government owned, why charge for anything?

What is the point of collecting any money for anything if a government intends to just borrow/print whatever it needs without end? Think about it.

Quote:

and you and your foul ilk blame other victims for it.
Bunch of feckless opinionated ignorant biased creeps.

1:00am... still a judgemental total smacking bitch to anyone who dares make you think about something from another perspective

.

THINK ABOUT IT?? I have .. long time.. hey I worked for TREASURY.. Do you understand THAT.?

I don't believe that, but it would explain a lot about this country.

Quote:

Perhaps YOU might explain , then... how the country runs...??

Your reply makes no sense ....
.. what would you suggest as an alternative.??

Your argument is that surplus is not needed and is in fact a bad thing. Your argument is also that debt doesn't matter and that every government runs in debt. So why even have a budget if none of it matters? Why collect money for anything if the amount of debt doesn't matter?

Lets put it in simple terms;

Government collects $5 in tax
Government spends $10
Government spent $5 more than it has
Budget is now $5 over.
The country is now in $5 debt.

Following so far? good. So why collect the $5 tax is the first place. Just go $10 over budget. According to you the debt means sweet bugger all anyway, so why even bother having any income through taxes?

?? your logic eludes me.. in fact ..your lack of logic astounds me.
Your alternative...?? Nope ? don't have one..?

So the Country just trundles along, and somehow, magically things are done.. roads are paid for,, health care is funded,, from some OTHER source?
Perhaps you think Business donates all this?? Roll Eyes

I ask again... HOW would YOU fund necessary infrastructure ??
Donations from the public..??? Cheesy

God help Australia if you still work for the Treasury, god help us if people like you work in government. You people have no idea.
With out business, how the hell do you think this country runs, how the hell do you think people get paid, how the hell do think taxes are paid.
Do you understand what recession is? Do you understand what high employment is, do you understand what a depression is.
This is my great country and I and many others don't care much for comparisons. As you like to compare our great country to other countries, I compare your poor economic ruling to a Communist ruled country and again have no idea.
People like you should be charged with treason and theft of public taxes and put to death!

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Re: Enough is ENOUGH!!
Reply #104 - Aug 20^th, 2013 at 8:40am

Emma wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 2:28am:

lets try another analogue

Say ... you purchase a home under a contract with one of our world record profiteering Banks ...

..you don't actually have $450,000 dollars lying around... in fact.. you have never had that much cash on hand in your whole working life...
so..

you borrow money..from one of our world record banks, on the understanding that access to that money has a COST. That cost includes admin fees, stamp duty, legal expenses, interest.. etc.

With me so far..??

You now have responsibility for paying for that asset you have acquired..because it gives you and your loved ones shelter..and you have an expectation that over time, your expenditure and on-going upkeep expenses will result in your owning an asset worth far in excess of the original price you paid, and the on-going expenses.
This means you are a good consumer, who pays on time and who has positive assets.

SO .. this model is not representative of government process.. this is not analogous.
Nor is business profit .
WHY...??

Perhaps if you think about it.. you might get the answer.

Under your stupid methodology, the bank would not give you a loan in the first place, because under your government the people have no need for business, therefore there are no employees, therefore one has no income, therefore no one pays taxes, therefore the country is in ruins, therefore there is no infrastructure, there is nothing.
Please stop your stupid posting you disgusting sod!

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