Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print
Fairfax nails a long-time Labor lie (Read 2031 times)
bogarde73
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Anti-Global & Contra Mundum

Posts: 18443
Gender: male
Fairfax nails a long-time Labor lie
Aug 15th, 2013 at 12:28pm
 

Federal PoliticsFact CheckerArticle

Did Abbott rip $1b out of hospitals?

Date August 15, 2013 - 12:14PM




Peter Martin and Flynn Murphy

Kevin Rudd's claim is false.
The claim

In arguing that Tony Abbott will cut "to the bone" spending on health and education, Kevin Rudd has no more serious charge than the one he wheeled out again in the debate on Sunday night.

"That's what Mr Abbott did when he was health minister, when he took $1 billion out of hospital funding for the states at a time when he had responsibility to oversee that expenditure," Rudd said.

It's a charge with an impressive lineage. Wayne Swan, Lindsay Tanner, Penny Wong, Nicola Roxon, Tanya Plibersek and Julia Gillard have all repeated it. It was even printed on a 2010 Labor campaign leaflet. It read: "Tony Abbott cut $1 billion from health and hospitals. Don't let Abbott cut health funding again."

Supporting evidence

It goes back to the 2003 budget. It delivered not a cut in hospital funding (as Rudd says) or a cut in health and hospital funding (as Labor says) but an increase in hospital funding for the next five-year intergovernmental agreement. The increase was around $1 billion less than foreshadowed a year earlier, but it was an increase nonetheless.

The 2003 budget papers explained the increase in funding for public hospitals was less than had been foreshadowed partly because "more services are being provided in private hospitals following the introduction of the government's 30 per cent private health insurance rebate".

Does it stack up?

It was an increase, not a cut. Under the new agreement, states were offered “up to an additional $10 billion to help run public hospitals,” but instead of receiving up to $43 billion as had been foreshadowed over the five years they were offered up to $42 billion.

It was a "cut" only in the sense that someone who is led to believe they will get a pay rise and then doesn't get all of it believes they have had a pay cut.

And Abbott wasn't the health minister at the time. He was the minister for employment and workplace relations.

Abbott became health and ageing minister on October 7 2003, five months after the 2003 budget and one month after the last of the disgruntled state and territory health ministers signed up to the new agreement.

Kay Patterson was the health minister who stared down the states in the bitter and protracted dispute, a fact Rudd tacitly acknowledged on Sunday night when he used convoluted language to say Abbott took "$1 billion out of hospital funding for the states at a time when he had responsibility to oversee that expenditure".

Abbott didn't set up the agreement that was worth $1 billion less than expected. He merely presided over it.

Statistics compiled by the Australian Institute of Health and Welfare show that under Abbott, commonwealth funding of public hospitals climbed 4 per cent in 2003-4, 7 per cent in 2004-5, 4 per cent in 2005-6 and 6 per cent in 2006-7.
Finding

Tony Abbott neither “took $1 billion out of hospital funding for the states” nor presided over a cut.

The charge is serious and personal.

A Politifact rating of "false" applies where a statement is not accurate.

PolitiFact rates kevin Rudd's claim that Tony Abbott took $1 billion out of hospital funding for the states "false".
Details at www.politifact.com.au


Back to top
 

Know the enemies of a civil society by their public behaviour, by their fraudulent claim to be liberal-progressive, by their propensity to lie and, above all, by their attachment to authoritarianism.
 
IP Logged
 
cods
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 88048
Re: Fairfax nails a long-time Labor lie
Reply #1 - Aug 15th, 2013 at 12:50pm
 
I do think its time we had a lie meter to tell us just what is the REAL TRUTH...I dont know about you but I am over all the rubbish they feed us..

lets have it out there....as the lies take over dont they??...

you know what they say treat us like mushrooms.. keep us in the dark and feed us bullsh!t...

well enough is enough.. its time the lies were all out there for all to see..

we have watched the labor party tell lies over and over that it is now the norm for them to do it without so much as a blush...

at that rate I will refuse to believe anything they say thats for sure..they can cry wolf all they like... once a liar always a liar..
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
longweekend58
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male
Re: Fairfax nails a long-time Labor lie
Reply #2 - Aug 15th, 2013 at 12:58pm
 
Another Labor lie bites the dust.

and this is a REAL lie, not the kind of lies some idiots on here sprout
Back to top
 

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
IP Logged
 
PZ547
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 9282
Gender: male
Re: Fairfax nails a long-time Labor lie
Reply #3 - Aug 15th, 2013 at 1:52pm
 
'
'
Let's face it -- we'll find any amount of lies we want -- if we look for them


If Fairfax is finding Labor lies ---- that's because they're only looking for Labor lies

If they wanted to, Fairfax could find an equal number of Liberal lies


We're not short of lies


It's TRUTH and TRANSPARENCY we need


If Fairfax are bagging Labor, it's because they favour Libs and/or it means the Liberals have made more promises to Fairfax than has Labor


It's a dirty game

The media is dirtiest of all

But they ALL want to take money from YOU -- Libs, Labor, and their controllers the filthy whore media


Boycott the whore media

Don't let their dirty fingers into your mind


Send the media back to where it belongs --- in pieces hanging from a nail in the outdoor dunny
Back to top
 

All my comments, posts & opinions are to be regarded as satire & humour
 
IP Logged
 
Dsmithy70
Gold Member
*****
Offline


ire futuis vobismetipsis

Posts: 13147
Newy
Gender: male
Re: Fairfax nails a long-time Labor lie
Reply #4 - Aug 15th, 2013 at 2:04pm
 
longweekend58 wrote on Aug 15th, 2013 at 12:58pm:
and this is a REAL lie, not the kind of lies some idiots on here sprout



Yes it is, & glad to see you acknowledge your faults re CT/BER Smiley
Back to top
 

REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento
 
IP Logged
 
chicken_lipsforme
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 7090
Townsville NQ
Gender: male
Re: Fairfax nails a long-time Labor lie
Reply #5 - Aug 15th, 2013 at 2:17pm
 
The Labor party couldn't lie straight in bed.
All of KRudd's chickens are coming home to roost.
Back to top
 

"Another boat, another policy failure from the Howard government"

Julia Gillard
Shadow Health Minister
2003.
 
IP Logged
 
bogarde73
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Anti-Global & Contra Mundum

Posts: 18443
Gender: male
Re: Fairfax nails a long-time Labor lie
Reply #6 - Aug 15th, 2013 at 3:10pm
 
When your own long term supporters start calling you a liar, you're in big trouble.
Rudd is running out of friends, but we know that . . .Combet & & & &
Never mind, he's still King of the Kids, even if they have to be trained by the teachers to chant his name.
Back to top
 

Know the enemies of a civil society by their public behaviour, by their fraudulent claim to be liberal-progressive, by their propensity to lie and, above all, by their attachment to authoritarianism.
 
IP Logged
 
RightSadFred
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 2220
Gender: male
Re: Fairfax nails a long-time Labor lie
Reply #7 - Aug 15th, 2013 at 3:12pm
 
PZ547

So your theory is that Fairfax is a fan club of the liberals ?

Is that with your tun hat on or off ?

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
bogarde73
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Anti-Global & Contra Mundum

Posts: 18443
Gender: male
Re: Fairfax nails a long-time Labor lie
Reply #8 - Aug 15th, 2013 at 3:59pm
 
It's worth repeating for the benefit of those Labor supporters who are slow to digest the truth . . .and let's face it, most of them are:

Tony Abbott neither “took $1 billion out of hospital funding for the states” nor presided over a cut.
PolitiFact rates kevin Rudd's claim that Tony Abbott took $1 billion out of hospital funding for the states "false".
Back to top
 

Know the enemies of a civil society by their public behaviour, by their fraudulent claim to be liberal-progressive, by their propensity to lie and, above all, by their attachment to authoritarianism.
 
IP Logged
 
cods
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 88048
Re: Fairfax nails a long-time Labor lie
Reply #9 - Aug 15th, 2013 at 4:06pm
 
PZ547 wrote on Aug 15th, 2013 at 1:52pm:
'
'
Let's face it -- we'll find any amount of lies we want -- if we look for them


If Fairfax is finding Labor lies ---- that's because they're only looking for Labor lies

If they wanted to, Fairfax could find an equal number of Liberal lies


We're not short of lies


It's TRUTH and TRANSPARENCY we need


If Fairfax are bagging Labor, it's because they favour Libs and/or it means the Liberals have made more promises to Fairfax than has Labor


It's a dirty game

The media is dirtiest of all

But they ALL want to take money from YOU -- Libs, Labor, and their controllers the filthy whore media


Boycott the whore media

Don't let their dirty fingers into your mind


Send the media back to where it belongs --- in pieces hanging from a nail in the outdoor dunny




what rubbish... and let those you complain about get away with more and worse....you might not like the media???.. why that is I wouldnt know.. but without them the likes of OBEID and Co would never answer to anything..and would probably still be in POWER doing god only knows what... Angry

we dont always want our heros exposed.. but if they are doing nothing wrong... then they have nothing to worry about do they???.. Roll Eyes

in the mean time.. if they are doing something wrong then I want to know about it.. Angry
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Dsmithy70
Gold Member
*****
Offline


ire futuis vobismetipsis

Posts: 13147
Newy
Gender: male
Re: Fairfax nails a long-time Labor lie
Reply #10 - Aug 15th, 2013 at 4:10pm
 
bogarde73 wrote on Aug 15th, 2013 at 3:59pm:
It's worth repeating for the benefit of those Labor supporters who are slow to digest the truth . . .and let's face it, most of them are:

Tony Abbott neither “took $1 billion out of hospital funding for the states” nor presided over a cut.
PolitiFact rates kevin Rudd's claim that Tony Abbott took $1 billion out of hospital funding for the states "false".



Yes but no worse than the Carbon Tax lie.

But apparently I should feel shame & embarrassment for Rudd bullsh!t, & in a way I do.
Pathetic semantics are what is killing our democracy.
Back to top
 

REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento
 
IP Logged
 
cods
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 88048
Re: Fairfax nails a long-time Labor lie
Reply #11 - Aug 15th, 2013 at 4:16pm
 
Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 15th, 2013 at 4:10pm:
bogarde73 wrote on Aug 15th, 2013 at 3:59pm:
It's worth repeating for the benefit of those Labor supporters who are slow to digest the truth . . .and let's face it, most of them are:

Tony Abbott neither “took $1 billion out of hospital funding for the states” nor presided over a cut.
PolitiFact rates kevin Rudd's claim that Tony Abbott took $1 billion out of hospital funding for the states "false".



Yes but no worse than the Carbon Tax lie.

But apparently I should feel shame & embarrassment for Rudd bullsh!t, & in a way I do.
Pathetic semantics are what is killing our democracy.




its the barefaced lies that bugger me to be honest... no shame at all..might as well be Zimbabwe..

where if they did tell the truth they would be struck dead.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
longweekend58
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male
Re: Fairfax nails a long-time Labor lie
Reply #12 - Aug 15th, 2013 at 5:00pm
 
Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 15th, 2013 at 4:10pm:
bogarde73 wrote on Aug 15th, 2013 at 3:59pm:
It's worth repeating for the benefit of those Labor supporters who are slow to digest the truth . . .and let's face it, most of them are:

Tony Abbott neither “took $1 billion out of hospital funding for the states” nor presided over a cut.
PolitiFact rates kevin Rudd's claim that Tony Abbott took $1 billion out of hospital funding for the states "false".



Yes but no worse than the Carbon Tax lie.

But apparently I should feel shame & embarrassment for Rudd bullsh!t, & in a way I do.
Pathetic semantics are what is killing our democracy.


its not even close to the carbon tax 'lie'.  this abbott claim firstly was about an action that Abbott had nothing to do with and wasn't a cut anyhow but rather a $10B increase instead of an $11B one.  it is a fundamental and inexcusable lie.

You can make a credible argument that the carbon tax promise was a bald-faced lie.  You may not be able to prove it but nor can you disprove it.  The abbot lie that labor tells is demonstrably and provably false.
Back to top
 

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
IP Logged
 
buzzanddidj
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 14213
Eganstown, via Daylesford, VIC
Gender: male
Re: Fairfax nails a long-time Labor lie
Reply #13 - Aug 15th, 2013 at 5:02pm
 
It's STILL a matter of debate and viewpoint

YES - it WAS an increase in dollar value
But was this series of increases in line with previous years ( ... I'd like to see THOSE figures - if someone out there has more time than I) ?
Was it a change in FORMULA - that gave a smaller than usual increase than previous years' budgets ?
Was the increase less than pledged the previous election campaign ?

Compare THIS ...
Quote:
VICTORIA has been singled out for an unprecedented cut of $2.5 billion in GST funding under the new carve-up of the tax revenue recommended by the Commonwealth Grants Commission, according to Premier Ted Baillieu.

Mr Baillieu attacked the proposed cut over four years as unjustified, warning that Victorians will ''feel the consequences''.

''This is a massive cut, this is an unprecedented cut,'' he said.


http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/state-faces-25bn-gst-cut-baillieu-20110225-1b8...



There WAS no "cut"
There was an INCREASE
- but not near the one anticipated - under the old formula

( ... the Gillard Government made up the difference, in direct grants to the hospitals)

There is ONE documented FACT in all of this


Under Federal Health Minister, Tony Abbott, the 50/50 Federal/State hospital funding arrangement fell to 49 on the Feds part
The states contributing 51%




Back to top
 

'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.'


- Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
 
IP Logged
 
longweekend58
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 45675
Gender: male
Re: Fairfax nails a long-time Labor lie
Reply #14 - Aug 15th, 2013 at 5:05pm
 
buzzanddidj wrote on Aug 15th, 2013 at 5:02pm:
It's STILL a matter of debate and viewpoint

YES - it WAS an increase in dollar value
But was this series of increases in line with previous years ( ... I'd like to see THOSE figures - if someone out there has more time than I) ?
Was it a change in FORMULA - that gave a smaller than usual increase than previous years' budgets ?
Was the increase less than pledged the previous election campaign ?

Compare THIS ...
Quote:
VICTORIA has been singled out for an unprecedented cut of $2.5 billion in GST funding under the new carve-up of the tax revenue recommended by the Commonwealth Grants Commission, according to Premier Ted Baillieu.

Mr Baillieu attacked the proposed cut over four years as unjustified, warning that Victorians will ''feel the consequences''.

''This is a massive cut, this is an unprecedented cut,'' he said.


http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/state-faces-25bn-gst-cut-baillieu-20110225-1b8...



There WAS no "cut"
There was an INCREASE
- but not near the one anticipated - under the old formula

( ... the Gillard Government made up the difference, in direct grants to the hospitals)

There is ONE documented FACT in all of this


Under Federal Health Minister, Tony Abbott, the 50/50 Federal/State hospital funding arrangement fell to 49 on the Feds part
The states contributing 51%






The point is that Abbott has been FALSELY ACCUSED by labor of cutting $1B from a budget when he wasn't even health minister at the time and nor was it a cut in the first place.

This speaks volumes of Labors integrity but also of its (in)ability to get anything right.  Google could have told you the facts but Labor with the resources of govt still cant get it right.
Back to top
 

AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print