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Boycott halal - it's barbaric (Read 69368 times)
Quantum
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Re: Boycott halal - it's barbaric
Reply #105 - Aug 22nd, 2013 at 1:43am
 
True Colours wrote on Aug 22nd, 2013 at 1:27am:
Quantum wrote on Aug 22nd, 2013 at 12:43am:
True Colours wrote on Aug 22nd, 2013 at 12:30am:
Quantum wrote on Aug 22nd, 2013 at 12:20am:
True Colours wrote on Aug 22nd, 2013 at 12:04am:
freediver wrote on Aug 21st, 2013 at 7:03pm:
Didn't you previously insist that unless I can find a verse specifically permitting rape it must mean it is forbidden?


Islam forbids rape, and hands out a hefty punishment and deterrent:

Quote:
Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr: When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her. She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to me...the man who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: "Messenger of God, I am the man who did it to her. He (the Prophet) said..."Stone him to death..."

-Abu Dawood



Compare to the West where rapists get locked up in luxury for a couple of years and get fed gourmet food.

Or compare to the Judeo-Christian Bible:

"If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman"
- Deuteronomy 22:28-29
Shocked


Sick. Westerners are soft on rape. Shameful!

Justice for rape victims!


Considering how many women have been stoned to death because they have been raped your comments are laughable.

Again, if you hate the west so much, go back to your own people.


No Islamic court has ever ordered somebody to be stoned for being raped.

Do your lies bring you any shame Quantum?




http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/nov/02/somalia-gender


The story is discredited. The court said that the main points reported in the article were untrue. First of all, her age was officially not 13, witnesses including journalists said she appeared to be about 23. Secondly, her own testimony did not mention rape - she came to the court requesting to be punished for committing adultery. You can see the bias in the article with the description of the Shabab government as 'rebels' even though they controlled most of the country at the time.




Have any cases supported by hard evidence rather than this disputed and discredited article?


So the guardian article has been discredited and is disputed? How about these?

BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7708169.stm

Al-Jazeera
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa/2008/11/2008111201216476354.html

The Mail
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1081214/Somali-girl-pleaded-mercy-Islami...

NBC
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/27484976/ns/world_news-africa/t/militants-stone-death-...

Huffingtonpost
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/peter-daou/13-year-old-somali-rape-v_b_143452.html

ABC
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2008-11-02/13yo-adulterer-stoned-to-death-amnesty/190...

Fox
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,445962,00.html

NY Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/05/world/africa/05somalia.html?_r=0

CBS
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-202_162-4562850.html

Bloomberg
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a7cuz2auN8RE&refer=africa

The Independent
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/dont-kill-me-she-screamed-then-th...

None of them checked before running the story?

Some of them didn't run the story till more than a week after some of the others, so there was plenty of time to check. Many of those sources are even at times very apologetic to Muslims, so why would they run a "disputed" story as fact? There are media outlets listed there that are from the extreme left and right, as well as from several different countries. If there is evidence that this was all a lie, then you need to show it.
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True Colours
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Re: Boycott halal - it's barbaric
Reply #106 - Aug 22nd, 2013 at 10:02am
 
Quantum wrote on Aug 22nd, 2013 at 1:43am:



All the above articles use the same source - an Amnesty report that has been contradicted by eyewitnesses which included journalists.

Amnesty themselves acknowledge that eyewitnesses said that there story doesn't stack up:
Quote:
Amnesty said witnesses originally reported that Duhulow was 23-years-old based on appearance

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/nov/02/somalia-gender


the BBC says that many of the witnesses who dispute Amnesty's claims are journalists:

Quote:
print and radio journalists who were allowed to attend estimated that the woman, Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow, was 23 years old.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7708169.stm


The court says that the woman came to the court admitting to adultery and asked to be punished. She was asked by the court to review her confession three times. She did not recant and never said she was raped.

Quote:
Initial reports had said she was a 23-year-old woman who had confessed to adultery before a Sharia court...

...Court authorities have said the woman came to them admitting her guilt.
     
She was asked several times to review her confession but she stressed that she wanted Sharia law and the deserved punishment to apply, they said...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7708169.stm


Now why would you accept an amnesty report that has been discredited by eyewitnesses that included journalists rather than the official court records? You would only do so if you had an anti-Islam agenda.

Now seeing as all these reports are based on disputed Amnesty report, I would like to know whether you accept Amnesty accusations of war crimes against Israel - a simple yes or no will do.  Roll Eyes


Now do you have a clear-cut undisputed example of a real court ordering somebody to be stoned for being raped?

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« Last Edit: Aug 22nd, 2013 at 10:25am by True Colours »  
 
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Quantum
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Re: Boycott halal - it's barbaric
Reply #107 - Aug 22nd, 2013 at 11:36am
 
True Colours wrote on Aug 22nd, 2013 at 10:02am:
Quantum wrote on Aug 22nd, 2013 at 1:43am:



All the above articles use the same source - an Amnesty report that has been contradicted by eyewitnesses which included journalists.

Amnesty themselves acknowledge that eyewitnesses said that there story doesn't stack up:
Quote:
Amnesty said witnesses originally reported that Duhulow was 23-years-old based on appearance

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/nov/02/somalia-gender


the BBC says that many of the witnesses who dispute Amnesty's claims are journalists:

Quote:
print and radio journalists who were allowed to attend estimated that the woman, Aisha Ibrahim Duhulow, was 23 years old.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7708169.stm


The court says that the woman came to the court admitting to adultery and asked to be punished. She was asked by the court to review her confession three times. She did not recant and never said she was raped.

Quote:
Initial reports had said she was a 23-year-old woman who had confessed to adultery before a Sharia court...

...Court authorities have said the woman came to them admitting her guilt.
     
She was asked several times to review her confession but she stressed that she wanted Sharia law and the deserved punishment to apply, they said...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7708169.stm


Now why would you accept an amnesty report that has been discredited by eyewitnesses that included journalists rather than the official court records? You would only do so if you had an anti-Islam agenda.

Now seeing as all these reports are based on disputed Amnesty report, I would like to know whether you accept Amnesty accusations of war crimes against Israel - a simple yes or no will do.  Roll Eyes


Now do you have a clear-cut undisputed example of a real court ordering somebody to be stoned for being raped?



You are an idiot;

"Initial reports had said she was a 23-year-old woman who had confessed to adultery before a Sharia court..."

Do you understand what that means? The initial (as In; original, first, to start with, etc) reports were that she was 23 years old and had confessed to adultery and wanted to be stoned. It later turned out that she was 13, had been raped, and had begged for her life.  That means the 23 year old claim was the disputed and discredited one. You are getting your timeline mixed up.
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freediver
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Re: Boycott halal - it's barbaric
Reply #108 - Aug 22nd, 2013 at 12:19pm
 
True Colours wrote on Aug 22nd, 2013 at 12:04am:
freediver wrote on Aug 21st, 2013 at 7:03pm:
Didn't you previously insist that unless I can find a verse specifically permitting rape it must mean it is forbidden?


Islam forbids rape, and hands out a hefty punishment and deterrent:

Quote:
Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr: When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her. She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to me...the man who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: "Messenger of God, I am the man who did it to her. He (the Prophet) said..."Stone him to death..."

-Abu Dawood



Compare to the West where rapists get locked up in luxury for a couple of years and get fed gourmet food.

Or compare to the Judeo-Christian Bible:

"If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman"
- Deuteronomy 22:28-29
Shocked


Sick. Westerners are soft on rape. Shameful!

Justice for rape victims!


Islam has the same punishment for consensual sex. Where sex is forbidden, rape and consensual sex have the same punishment. Where sex is permitted, Islam does not even appear to recognise rape. The only time rape enters into Islamic law is as a way for victims of rape (in some contexts) to avoid being stoned to death for having sex without permission.

In any case you have completely missed the point. This concept of halal being default gets trotted out when it suits Muslims, but they will happily turn it on it's head when it suits them.
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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True Colours
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Re: Boycott halal - it's barbaric
Reply #109 - Aug 22nd, 2013 at 12:57pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 22nd, 2013 at 12:19pm:
True Colours wrote on Aug 22nd, 2013 at 12:04am:
freediver wrote on Aug 21st, 2013 at 7:03pm:
Didn't you previously insist that unless I can find a verse specifically permitting rape it must mean it is forbidden?


Islam forbids rape, and hands out a hefty punishment and deterrent:

Quote:
Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr: When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her. She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to me...the man who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: "Messenger of God, I am the man who did it to her. He (the Prophet) said..."Stone him to death..."

-Abu Dawood



Compare to the West where rapists get locked up in luxury for a couple of years and get fed gourmet food.

Or compare to the Judeo-Christian Bible:

"If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman"
- Deuteronomy 22:28-29
Shocked


Sick. Westerners are soft on rape. Shameful!

Justice for rape victims!


Islam has the same punishment for consensual sex. Where sex is forbidden, rape and consensual sex have the same punishment.

That is incorrect.

A single man convicted of fornication in Islam - which has never occurred except with self-confession - has the stipulated punishment of being lashed.

If the same man were to commit rape, then depending on the circumstances, there would be many more punishments available for the judge to hand out including, amputation of limbs, crucifixion, execution, imprisonment, and or banishment. On top of this, the offender can be ordered to pay compensation to the victim.

Depending on the circumstances, a rapist may be punished in a number of ways such as execution,


freediver wrote on Aug 22nd, 2013 at 12:19pm:
The only time rape enters into Islamic law is as a way for victims of rape (in some contexts) to avoid being stoned to death for having sex without permission.


That is complete load of bs. In the history of Islam, no court has ever convicted a man or woman of adultery except on the basis of self-confession. So how on Earth is it some kind way out when it has never even happened?

Do you ever feel ashamed of your lies Freediver? Do you feel that it helps to promote your Zionist agenda by telling lies? The more you lie, the worse the Zionists look.


freediver wrote on Aug 22nd, 2013 at 12:19pm:
This concept of halal being default gets trotted out when it suits Muslims, but they will happily turn it on it's head when it suits them.

Completely untrue. But once again, truth is not important to you is it?
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Soren
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Re: Boycott halal - it's barbaric
Reply #110 - Aug 22nd, 2013 at 1:14pm
 
True Colours wrote on Aug 22nd, 2013 at 12:57pm:
freediver wrote on Aug 22nd, 2013 at 12:19pm:
Islam has the same punishment for consensual sex. Where sex is forbidden, rape and consensual sex have the same punishment.

That is incorrect.

A single man convicted of fornication in Islam - which has never occurred except with self-confession - has the stipulated punishment of being lashed.



True Colours wrote on Aug 20th, 2013 at 8:21am:



Unmarried males fornicating is the natural default position in all species.

A bit like breathing air.

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Re: Boycott halal - it's barbaric
Reply #111 - Aug 22nd, 2013 at 3:48pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 21st, 2013 at 9:22pm:
Rape has been very clearly deemed as haram.


So where is the verse in the Quran that says rape is haram, please cite it for us.

The Quran says allah has perfected Islam in 5/3 so where is this verse prohibiting rape?
www.quran.com/5/3

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.
 
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Re: Boycott halal - it's barbaric
Reply #112 - Aug 22nd, 2013 at 5:28pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Aug 22nd, 2013 at 3:48pm:
So where is the verse in the Quran that says rape is haram, please cite it for us.


Islamic law comes from two sources - the quran and the hadith.

In the case of rape, the quran gives the generalised proscription for the respect and equality of women. The specific outlawing of rape is found in the hadith of Abu Dawud Book 38, Number 4366:

Quote:
    Narrated Wa'il ibn Hujr:

    When a woman went out in the time of the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) for prayer, a man attacked her and overpowered (raped) her.

    She shouted and he went off, and when a man came by, she said: That (man) did such and such to me. And when a company of the Emigrants came by, she said: That man did such and such to me. They went and seized the man whom they thought had had intercourse with her and brought him to her.

    She said: Yes, this is he. Then they brought him to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him).

    When he (the Prophet) was about to pass sentence, the man who (actually) had assaulted her stood up and said: Apostle of Allah, I am the man who did it to her.

    He (the Prophet) said to her: Go away, for Allah has forgiven you. But he told the man some good words (AbuDawud said: meaning the man who was seized), and of the man who had had intercourse with her, he said: Stone him to death.

    He also said: He has repented to such an extent that if the people of Medina had repented similarly, it would have been accepted from them.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Baronvonrort
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Re: Boycott halal - it's barbaric
Reply #113 - Aug 23rd, 2013 at 3:53pm
 
There is no verse in the Quran that states rape is haram, what you have done is give a verse that comes from a book that was written over 200 years after the Quran was made into a book.
Allah says Islam is perfected in 5/3 yet despite this perfection muslims have to wait over 200 years for another book to be written which contains this single verse that outlaws exactly what gandalf?
The shia do not follow this book that came 200 years after the Quran

The Quran also says wife beating is halal is that what muslims mean by respect and equality shown to women, why does your link leave this verse out?
Allah says wife beating is halal
www.quran.com/4/34

Quote:
The prophet said-
A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife
www.sunnah.com/abudawud/12/102


Quote:
The prophet said-
None of you should flog his wife as he flogs a slave and then have sexual intercourse with her in the last part of the day.
www.sunnah.com/bukhari/67/138

So is it ok to flog your wife like you flog your slave only if you dont have sex with her in the  last part of the day?
I guess with polygamy you could always bang your other wives.

Where does that hadith say rape is haram, there are many other hadeeth where someone admitting to sex outside of marriage are stoned to death.
If they do not admit to it do they get away with it?
www.sunnah.com/bukhari/86/44
www.sunnah.com/abudawud/40/75
www.sunnah.com/abudawud/40/89
Mo even stoned jews to death for adultery-
www.sunnah.com/muslim/29/41

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.
 
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polite_gandalf
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Re: Boycott halal - it's barbaric
Reply #114 - Aug 23rd, 2013 at 4:09pm
 
You are absolutely right Baron - the quran makes it clear that women are to be treated with respect and dignity, but at the same time implicitly condones rape.  Tongue
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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freediver
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Re: Boycott halal - it's barbaric
Reply #115 - Aug 23rd, 2013 at 7:36pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Aug 23rd, 2013 at 4:09pm:
You are absolutely right Baron - the quran makes it clear that women are to be treated with respect and dignity, but at the same time implicitly condones rape.  Tongue


...and explicitly condones wife beating, slavery, and plenty of other demeaning things for women.

Remembers, unless it is explicitly forbidden, it is permitted, right?
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Re: Boycott halal - it's barbaric
Reply #116 - Aug 23rd, 2013 at 9:28pm
 
freediver wrote on Aug 23rd, 2013 at 7:36pm:
Remembers, unless it is explicitly forbidden, it is permitted, right?


So if I convert to Islam I can do everything that is not forbidden by Mohammed?

Really? Everything?


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Quantum
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Re: Boycott halal - it's barbaric
Reply #117 - Aug 23rd, 2013 at 9:42pm
 
Yep! You can fly planes into buildings, gas entire suburbs, and even jack off to pictures of dead Christian babies. Everything is halal if it isn't explicitly forbidden.

Praise Allah!
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Soren
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Re: Boycott halal - it's barbaric
Reply #118 - Aug 23rd, 2013 at 9:54pm
 


OR



OR- Belphegor !!

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Re: Boycott halal - it's barbaric
Reply #119 - Aug 23rd, 2013 at 11:29pm
 
Soren wrote on Aug 23rd, 2013 at 9:54pm:





She's cute.



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