Australian Politics Forum - Fact Check on Labor's NBN ad

bogarde73

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Fact Check on Labor's NBN ad
Aug 20^th, 2013 at 3:12pm

The Australian Labor Party has launched a political advertisement about its National Broadband Network (NBN) which makes claims on cost, speed and rollout.

Claim 1: The cost

It's free for your home or business to connect no matter if you live in the suburbs, on a farm, or in the city.

NBN Co is installing fibre optical cable to 93 per cent of premises around Australia.

The remaining seven per cent, in remote and rural areas, will be serviced via satellite and fixed wireless.

To access the NBN a home or business must sign up with an internet service provider (ISP).

Once the home has signed up to the NBN through an ISP, NBN Co will send a technician to install the NBN from the street to the home.

The network links to a small box (or dish or antennae for remote and rural customers) on the outside of the home. Then a cable is brought into the house and a Network Termination Device is installed.

This functions like a modem allowing a customer to plug in their phone and internet to the NBN.

NBN Co will not charge for installing the hardware to the home, but an ISP may charge fees to connect to the NBN.

NBN Co's website says "in NBN fibre areas, you could access internet and phone services over NBN fibre for around the same price as you're paying now".

It recommends consumers contact their ISP "to see if there are any other charges such as set up or activation fees".

ABC Fact Check looked at the NBN residential fibre plans offered by four ISPs.

Optus charges a $70 connection fee when a residential NBN customer signs up to its cheapest 24 month contract (with a minimum spend of $1,410).

Telstra also requires NBN customers to sign a 24 month contract. Telstra charges a $59 activation fee.

Internode has a $99 set-up charge to connect to the NBN if a customer signs up for anything less than a 24 month plan.

iiNet has no discrete connection charge for NBN residential plans. However, to access the NBN, customers have to sign up to a 24 month contract. iiNet's lowest NBN residential plan costs $1,198 over 24 months.

The verdict

The claim that it is "free for your home or business to connect" is not the full story.
NBN Co provides access to its hardware free of charge. But an internet service provider may charge for connection, and most ISPs require a customer to sign a 24 month contract.

NBN customers will pay similar monthly charges to ADSL broadband plans currently used across Australia.

Claim 2: The speed

It’s 40 times faster than the second rate network Tony Abbott wants to build, which relies on last century's copper technology.

It is true that Labor's NBN Co fibre-optic technology can deliver download speeds of 1,000 megabits.

In contrast, the Coalition says its plan will deliver download speeds of between 25 megabits and 100 megabits.

The 1,000 megabit speed offered by NBN Co is 40 times faster than the slowest speed of 25 megabits offered by the Coalition.

However, NBN Co's website contains qualifications about delivering high speeds to consumers.

"We're designing the NBN to provide these speeds to our wholesale customers, telephone and internet service providers," the website says.

"Your experience including the speeds actually achieved over the NBN depends on some factors outside our control like your equipment quality, software, broadband plans and how your service provider designs its network."

NBN Co also says the highest speeds will be offered "in the future".

The fastest speed currently offered in NBN residential plans from Telstra, Optus, iiNet and Internode is 100 megabits. That is the same as the best speed promised by the Coalition and only four times the slowest speed.

For rural and remote customers, there is no suggestion the satellite and fixed wired technology will deliver 1,000 megabit speeds.

The verdict

The "40 times faster" claim may be true one day but is not available to residential customers now and may never be available to all customers.
Claim 3: Thousands connected

Even as you watch this video it’s being built all around the country with thousands of homes and businesses already connected.

In July NBN Co reported that 70,000 homes and businesses were using NBN services.

The verdict

This claim is true.

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bogarde73 Gold Member Offline Anti-Global & Contra Mundum Posts: 18443 Gender:	Re: Fact Check on Labor's NBN ad Reply #1 - Aug 20^th, 2013 at 3:12pm Ask the ad agency for your money back Kev.
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RightSadFred Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2220 Gender:	Re: Fact Check on Labor's NBN ad Reply #2 - Aug 20^th, 2013 at 3:31pm bogarde73 Normally a programme like the NBN would be a political positive yet the best it gets is a small gap over the Liberals scheme with no real political blip, its been an economical and political white elephant.
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longweekend58

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Re: Fact Check on Labor's NBN ad
Reply #3 - Aug 20^th, 2013 at 5:32pm

RightSadFred wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 3:31pm:

bogarde73

Normally a programme like the NBN would be a political positive yet the best it gets is a small gap over the Liberals scheme with no real political blip, its been an economical and political white elephant.

the reason that the NBN is not a massive vote-winner is that for most it is a big yawn. the vast majority of people do web browsing, email and a bit of ebay and facebook. The NBN offers them what exactly? the same thing with POTENTIALLY faster speed? Perhaps. what is rarely discussed is that web site will not be faster on the NBN unless YOU are the holdup which in many cases isn't true.

so as far as most people see, they are getting a landline - which they hardly use - and an internet service which they already have.

it is no surprise that it is not a massive vote-winner.

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cods

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Re: Fact Check on Labor's NBN ad
Reply #4 - Aug 20^th, 2013 at 5:40pm

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 5:32pm:

RightSadFred wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 3:31pm:

bogarde73

Normally a programme like the NBN would be a political positive yet the best it gets is a small gap over the Liberals scheme with no real political blip, its been an economical and political white elephant.

the reason that the NBN is not a massive vote-winner is that for most it is a big yawn. the vast majority of people do web browsing, email and a bit of ebay and facebook. The NBN offers them what exactly? the same thing with POTENTIALLY faster speed? Perhaps. what is rarely discussed is that web site will not be faster on the NBN unless YOU are the holdup which in many cases isn't true.

so as far as most people see, they are getting a landline - which they hardly use - and an internet service which they already have.

it is no surprise that it is not a massive vote-winner.

it wont make that much difference to the average user....I am sure the IT wizards out there its a must have.. but I am happy with what I have now..and if its going to mean more money to have something that will be 25 seconds faster.. I think I will pass...

I agree its a big yawn.. and as we kn ow nothing turns out to be as they predict anyway.

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Bam

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Re: Fact Check on Labor's NBN ad
Reply #5 - Aug 20^th, 2013 at 7:33pm

bogarde73 wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 3:12pm:

The Australian Labor Party has launched a political advertisement about its National Broadband Network (NBN) which makes claims on cost, speed and rollout.

Claim 1: The cost

It's free for your home or business to connect no matter if you live in the suburbs, on a farm, or in the city.

(snip)

The claim that it is "free for your home or business to connect" is not the full story.
NBN Co provides access to its hardware free of charge. But an internet service provider may charge for connection, and most ISPs require a customer to sign a 24 month contract.

To be fair, ISPs generally charge connection fees regardless of the underlying network technology. As for the price and the contract, it is likely that these prices will decrease over time. Early adopters of technology tend to pay more. (How much did LCD TVs cost 10 years ago? How much do they cost now?)

This price claim was incomplete. The government imposes no connection charges, so this should have been stated more clearly.

Quote:

Claim 2: The speed
It’s 40 times faster than the second rate network Tony Abbott wants to build, which relies on last century's copper technology.

It is true that Labor's NBN Co fibre-optic technology can deliver download speeds of 1,000 megabits.

In contrast, the Coalition says its plan will deliver download speeds of between 25 megabits and 100 megabits.

The 1,000 megabit speed offered by NBN Co is 40 times faster than the slowest speed of 25 megabits offered by the Coalition.

(snip)

The "40 times faster" claim may be true one day but is not available to residential customers now and may never be available to all customers.

Copper cannot deliver 1000 megabits per second, ever. Wireless has its own limitations caused by the need for multiple users to share the same network. For some customers both parties only offer wireless connections.

Fibre can deliver 1000Mb/s (1Gb/s) once the terminal equipment is upgraded. Indeed, fibre can handle speeds over 10Gb/s with the right equipment. 1 Gb/s may not be the speed offered now, but it will certainly be possible within the next decade with only a modest upgrade cost. The chance of 1 GB/s speeds over a 50-year-old copper wire is nil.

The main limitation of future speeds is not the fibre from the premises to the ISP itself, but the need for ISPs to throttle speeds to ration the relatively limited capacity of their trunk lines.

I think this claim was also incomplete. It would have been more accurate to highlight the current speeds more and make it clearer that the 40 (or more) increase in speed was based on future upgrades using existing equipment.

Fact Check concurs, with an "Oversimplified" rating. It's not wrong, but leaves out a few important details.

However, this kind of spin is not unusual in election campaigns, and is not worse than Hockey's apples vs oranges debt comparison that got an "Exaggerated" rating on ABC Online's Fact Check yesterday.

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longweekend58

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Re: Fact Check on Labor's NBN ad
Reply #6 - Aug 20^th, 2013 at 7:40pm

Bam wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 7:33pm:

bogarde73 wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 3:12pm:

The Australian Labor Party has launched a political advertisement about its National Broadband Network (NBN) which makes claims on cost, speed and rollout.

Claim 1: The cost

It's free for your home or business to connect no matter if you live in the suburbs, on a farm, or in the city.

(snip)

The claim that it is "free for your home or business to connect" is not the full story.
NBN Co provides access to its hardware free of charge. But an internet service provider may charge for connection, and most ISPs require a customer to sign a 24 month contract.

To be fair, ISPs generally charge connection fees regardless of the underlying network technology. As for the price and the contract, it is likely that these prices will decrease over time. Early adopters of technology tend to pay more. (How much did LCD TVs cost 10 years ago? How much do they cost now?)

This price claim was incomplete. The government imposes no connection charges, so this should have been stated more clearly.

Quote:

Claim 2: The speed
It’s 40 times faster than the second rate network Tony Abbott wants to build, which relies on last century's copper technology.

It is true that Labor's NBN Co fibre-optic technology can deliver download speeds of 1,000 megabits.

In contrast, the Coalition says its plan will deliver download speeds of between 25 megabits and 100 megabits.

The 1,000 megabit speed offered by NBN Co is 40 times faster than the slowest speed of 25 megabits offered by the Coalition.

(snip)

The "40 times faster" claim may be true one day but is not available to residential customers now and may never be available to all customers.

Copper cannot deliver 1000 megabits per second, ever. Wireless has its own limitations caused by the need for multiple users to share the same network. For some customers both parties only offer wireless connections.

Fibre can deliver 1000Mb/s (1Gb/s) once the terminal equipment is upgraded. Indeed, fibre can handle speeds over 10Gb/s with the right equipment. 1 Gb/s may not be the speed offered now, but it will certainly be possible within the next decade with only a modest upgrade cost. The chance of 1 GB/s speeds over a 50-year-old copper wire is nil.

The main limitation of future speeds is not the fibre from the premises to the ISP itself, but the need for ISPs to throttle speeds to ration the relatively limited capacity of their trunk lines.

I think this claim was also incomplete. It would have been more accurate to highlight the current speeds more and make it clearer that the 40 (or more) increase in speed was based on future upgrades using existing equipment.

Fact Check concurs, with an "Oversimplified" rating. It's not wrong, but leaves out a few important details.

However, this kind of spin is not unusual in election campaigns, and is not worse than Hockey's apples vs oranges debt comparison that got an "Exaggerated" rating on ABC Online's Fact Check yesterday.

While not denying fibre's intrinsic technical superiority, that is only part of the equation and a small part at that. Copper twisted pair has been under-rated time and time again and the fact that it can now do 25-50Mbps was apparently 'impossible' as recently as a year ago. The same applies to wireless where the supposed limits of physics have been surpassed many times.

I find it amusing to read people who are so technically literate believing that fibre is the best and last improvement on information delivery. it is a virtual given that within ten years a new means of information delivery is developed that is cheaper and ten times faster. It is Moores law taken to another area. I am left with the only explanation that the support for the fiber NBN is little more than 'Labor good, liberal bad... oogah!'

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MOTR Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6646	Re: Fact Check on Labor's NBN ad Reply #7 - Aug 20^th, 2013 at 7:56pm RightSadFred wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 3:31pm: bogarde73 Normally a programme like the NBN would be a political positive yet the best it gets is a small gap over the Liberals scheme with no real political blip, its been an economical and political white elephant. Small gap, you've got to be joking.
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MOTR Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6646	Re: Fact Check on Labor's NBN ad Reply #8 - Aug 20^th, 2013 at 7:58pm If it wasnt such a threat to Abbott's sugar daddy the Libs would be on board as well.
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longweekend58 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 45675 Gender:	Re: Fact Check on Labor's NBN ad Reply #9 - Aug 20^th, 2013 at 8:05pm MOTR wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 7:58pm: If it wasnt such a threat to Abbott's sugar daddy the Libs would be on board as well. you can do better than to regurgitate such blatant and obvious nonsense. It makes you look like a sycophantic clown. FTTN is as bit a threat to foxtel as is FTTP.
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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Fact Check on Labor's NBN ad
Reply #10 - Aug 20^th, 2013 at 10:12pm

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 7:40pm:

Bam wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 7:33pm:

bogarde73 wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 3:12pm:

The Australian Labor Party has launched a political advertisement about its National Broadband Network (NBN) which makes claims on cost, speed and rollout.

Claim 1: The cost

It's free for your home or business to connect no matter if you live in the suburbs, on a farm, or in the city.

(snip)

The claim that it is "free for your home or business to connect" is not the full story.
NBN Co provides access to its hardware free of charge. But an internet service provider may charge for connection, and most ISPs require a customer to sign a 24 month contract.

To be fair, ISPs generally charge connection fees regardless of the underlying network technology. As for the price and the contract, it is likely that these prices will decrease over time. Early adopters of technology tend to pay more. (How much did LCD TVs cost 10 years ago? How much do they cost now?)

This price claim was incomplete. The government imposes no connection charges, so this should have been stated more clearly.

Quote:

Claim 2: The speed
It’s 40 times faster than the second rate network Tony Abbott wants to build, which relies on last century's copper technology.

It is true that Labor's NBN Co fibre-optic technology can deliver download speeds of 1,000 megabits.

In contrast, the Coalition says its plan will deliver download speeds of between 25 megabits and 100 megabits.

The 1,000 megabit speed offered by NBN Co is 40 times faster than the slowest speed of 25 megabits offered by the Coalition.

(snip)

The "40 times faster" claim may be true one day but is not available to residential customers now and may never be available to all customers.

Copper cannot deliver 1000 megabits per second, ever. Wireless has its own limitations caused by the need for multiple users to share the same network. For some customers both parties only offer wireless connections.

Fibre can deliver 1000Mb/s (1Gb/s) once the terminal equipment is upgraded. Indeed, fibre can handle speeds over 10Gb/s with the right equipment. 1 Gb/s may not be the speed offered now, but it will certainly be possible within the next decade with only a modest upgrade cost. The chance of 1 GB/s speeds over a 50-year-old copper wire is nil.

The main limitation of future speeds is not the fibre from the premises to the ISP itself, but the need for ISPs to throttle speeds to ration the relatively limited capacity of their trunk lines.

I think this claim was also incomplete. It would have been more accurate to highlight the current speeds more and make it clearer that the 40 (or more) increase in speed was based on future upgrades using existing equipment.

Fact Check concurs, with an "Oversimplified" rating. It's not wrong, but leaves out a few important details.

However, this kind of spin is not unusual in election campaigns, and is not worse than Hockey's apples vs oranges debt comparison that got an "Exaggerated" rating on ABC Online's Fact Check yesterday.

While not denying fibre's intrinsic technical superiority, that is only part of the equation and a small part at that. Copper twisted pair has been under-rated time and time again and the fact that it can now do 25-50Mbps was apparently 'impossible' as recently as a year ago. The same applies to wireless where the supposed limits of physics have been surpassed many times.

I find it amusing to read people who are so technically literate believing that fibre is the best and last improvement on information delivery. it is a virtual given that within ten years a new means of information delivery is developed that is cheaper and ten times faster. It is Moores law taken to another area. I am left with the only explanation that the support for the fiber NBN is little more than 'Labor good, liberal bad... oogah!'

Lets not forget that copper wire is far easier to maintain and repair when compared to optical fibre. That makes copper a far less expensive option. Most people won't need 1000mbps - they simply won't have any use for such fast speeds.

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scope

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Re: Fact Check on Labor's NBN ad
Reply #11 - Aug 21^st, 2013 at 2:22am

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 7:40pm:

Bam wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 7:33pm:

bogarde73 wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 3:12pm:

The Australian Labor Party has launched a political advertisement about its National Broadband Network (NBN) which makes claims on cost, speed and rollout.

Claim 1: The cost

It's free for your home or business to connect no matter if you live in the suburbs, on a farm, or in the city.

(snip)

The claim that it is "free for your home or business to connect" is not the full story.
NBN Co provides access to its hardware free of charge. But an internet service provider may charge for connection, and most ISPs require a customer to sign a 24 month contract.

To be fair, ISPs generally charge connection fees regardless of the underlying network technology. As for the price and the contract, it is likely that these prices will decrease over time. Early adopters of technology tend to pay more. (How much did LCD TVs cost 10 years ago? How much do they cost now?)

This price claim was incomplete. The government imposes no connection charges, so this should have been stated more clearly.

Quote:

Claim 2: The speed
It’s 40 times faster than the second rate network Tony Abbott wants to build, which relies on last century's copper technology.

It is true that Labor's NBN Co fibre-optic technology can deliver download speeds of 1,000 megabits.

In contrast, the Coalition says its plan will deliver download speeds of between 25 megabits and 100 megabits.

The 1,000 megabit speed offered by NBN Co is 40 times faster than the slowest speed of 25 megabits offered by the Coalition.

(snip)

The "40 times faster" claim may be true one day but is not available to residential customers now and may never be available to all customers.

Copper cannot deliver 1000 megabits per second, ever. Wireless has its own limitations caused by the need for multiple users to share the same network. For some customers both parties only offer wireless connections.

Fibre can deliver 1000Mb/s (1Gb/s) once the terminal equipment is upgraded. Indeed, fibre can handle speeds over 10Gb/s with the right equipment. 1 Gb/s may not be the speed offered now, but it will certainly be possible within the next decade with only a modest upgrade cost. The chance of 1 GB/s speeds over a 50-year-old copper wire is nil.

The main limitation of future speeds is not the fibre from the premises to the ISP itself, but the need for ISPs to throttle speeds to ration the relatively limited capacity of their trunk lines.

I think this claim was also incomplete. It would have been more accurate to highlight the current speeds more and make it clearer that the 40 (or more) increase in speed was based on future upgrades using existing equipment.

Fact Check concurs, with an "Oversimplified" rating. It's not wrong, but leaves out a few important details.

However, this kind of spin is not unusual in election campaigns, and is not worse than Hockey's apples vs oranges debt comparison that got an "Exaggerated" rating on ABC Online's Fact Check yesterday.

While not denying fibre's intrinsic technical superiority, that is only part of the equation and a small part at that. Copper twisted pair has been under-rated time and time again and the fact that it can now do 25-50Mbps was apparently 'impossible' as recently as a year ago. The same applies to wireless where the supposed limits of physics have been surpassed many times.

I find it amusing to read people who are so technically literate believing that fibre is the best and last improvement on information delivery. it is a virtual given that within ten years a new means of information delivery is developed that is cheaper and ten times faster. It is Moores law taken to another area. I am left with the only explanation that the support for the fiber NBN is little more than 'Labor good, liberal bad... oogah!'

Can't say I have seen anybody but you mention this, are you making stuff up again?

Lets see, LW claims that fiber will be superseded in ten years, Lets see how this stacks up.
Fiber has been around and in use since about 1840 up till now 2013 it has never been superseded , improved yes but nothing better has been invented so at the moment fiber is the king. Is it possible that something else will come along and leave fiber standing in it's own dust? yes of course it is possible but in ten years like LW has claimed? not a chance it's just more of LW's I make up my own facts fantasy.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Fact Check on Labor's NBN ad
Reply #12 - Aug 21^st, 2013 at 5:41am

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 7:40pm:

I find it amusing to read people who are so technically literate believing that fibre is the best and last improvement on information delivery. it is a virtual given that within ten years a new means of information delivery is developed that is cheaper and ten times faster. It is Moores law taken to another area. I am left with the only explanation that the support for the fiber NBN is little more than 'Labor good, liberal bad... oogah!'

Nobody ever said it was the last. Every 100 years or so we need to upgrade to a better technology to keep up with all our other advances. We no longer use analogue or tubes. Its infrastructure though that should last a while with the newer technology that uses it.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Fact Check on Labor's NBN ad
Reply #13 - Aug 21^st, 2013 at 5:45am

Armchair_Politician wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 10:12pm:

Lets not forget that copper wire is far easier to maintain and repair when compared to optical fibre. That makes copper a far less expensive option. Most people won't need 1000mbps - they simply won't have any use for such fast speeds.

Yeah. Its not as if just about everything we use is connected to the net now. And well - 64k is enough for anybody.

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longweekend58

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Re: Fact Check on Labor's NBN ad
Reply #14 - Aug 21^st, 2013 at 8:38am

scope wrote on Aug 21^st, 2013 at 2:22am:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 7:40pm:

Bam wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 7:33pm:

bogarde73 wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 3:12pm:

The Australian Labor Party has launched a political advertisement about its National Broadband Network (NBN) which makes claims on cost, speed and rollout.

Claim 1: The cost

It's free for your home or business to connect no matter if you live in the suburbs, on a farm, or in the city.

(snip)

The claim that it is "free for your home or business to connect" is not the full story.
NBN Co provides access to its hardware free of charge. But an internet service provider may charge for connection, and most ISPs require a customer to sign a 24 month contract.

To be fair, ISPs generally charge connection fees regardless of the underlying network technology. As for the price and the contract, it is likely that these prices will decrease over time. Early adopters of technology tend to pay more. (How much did LCD TVs cost 10 years ago? How much do they cost now?)

This price claim was incomplete. The government imposes no connection charges, so this should have been stated more clearly.

Quote:

Claim 2: The speed
It’s 40 times faster than the second rate network Tony Abbott wants to build, which relies on last century's copper technology.

It is true that Labor's NBN Co fibre-optic technology can deliver download speeds of 1,000 megabits.

In contrast, the Coalition says its plan will deliver download speeds of between 25 megabits and 100 megabits.

The 1,000 megabit speed offered by NBN Co is 40 times faster than the slowest speed of 25 megabits offered by the Coalition.

(snip)

The "40 times faster" claim may be true one day but is not available to residential customers now and may never be available to all customers.

Copper cannot deliver 1000 megabits per second, ever. Wireless has its own limitations caused by the need for multiple users to share the same network. For some customers both parties only offer wireless connections.

Fibre can deliver 1000Mb/s (1Gb/s) once the terminal equipment is upgraded. Indeed, fibre can handle speeds over 10Gb/s with the right equipment. 1 Gb/s may not be the speed offered now, but it will certainly be possible within the next decade with only a modest upgrade cost. The chance of 1 GB/s speeds over a 50-year-old copper wire is nil.

The main limitation of future speeds is not the fibre from the premises to the ISP itself, but the need for ISPs to throttle speeds to ration the relatively limited capacity of their trunk lines.

I think this claim was also incomplete. It would have been more accurate to highlight the current speeds more and make it clearer that the 40 (or more) increase in speed was based on future upgrades using existing equipment.

Fact Check concurs, with an "Oversimplified" rating. It's not wrong, but leaves out a few important details.

However, this kind of spin is not unusual in election campaigns, and is not worse than Hockey's apples vs oranges debt comparison that got an "Exaggerated" rating on ABC Online's Fact Check yesterday.

While not denying fibre's intrinsic technical superiority, that is only part of the equation and a small part at that. Copper twisted pair has been under-rated time and time again and the fact that it can now do 25-50Mbps was apparently 'impossible' as recently as a year ago. The same applies to wireless where the supposed limits of physics have been surpassed many times.

I find it amusing to read people who are so technically literate believing that fibre is the best and last improvement on information delivery. it is a virtual given that within ten years a new means of information delivery is developed that is cheaper and ten times faster. It is Moores law taken to another area. I am left with the only explanation that the support for the fiber NBN is little more than 'Labor good, liberal bad... oogah!'

Can't say I have seen anybody but you mention this, are you making stuff up again?

Lets see, LW claims that fiber will be superseded in ten years, Lets see how this stacks up.
Fiber has been around and in use since about 1840 up till now 2013 it has never been superseded , improved yes but nothing better has been invented so at the moment fiber is the king. Is it possible that something else will come along and leave fiber standing in it's own dust? yes of course it is possible but in ten years like LW has claimed? not a chance it's just more of LW's I make up my own facts fantasy.

actually, you've ALL been saying that. You claim that fibre is the ultimate, never-to-be-improved-upon technology. it is that claim that I find ludicours in todays society where yesterdays marvellous technology is todays landfill. fibre since 1840???? interesting since we didn't have any form of digital communications then. a fabrication perhaps?

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