Australian Politics Forum - Where is this budget emergency

Karnal

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Re: Where is this budget emergency
Reply #75 - Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 2:22pm

aquascoot wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 1:29pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 1:15pm:

John S wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 10:31am:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 21^st, 2013 at 11:12pm:

road building was THE STIMULUS project used to end the great depression. you get dumber the more you post.

learn a bit of history longy it wasn't road building that was used to end the great depression it was the Second World War

Oh no no no. They would have laid all those roads and airfields anyway.

Bridge over the River Quai, the Kokoda Trail, the Birdsville Track - all a big stimulus measure to end the Great Depression. Successful, no?

And do you know? Rudd should have done it all again.

i think rudd did the kokoda trail with hockey. i bet they had porters. kevvy would have been great on the river kwai. would have talked so much the japs would have surrendered just to get away from him.

Right. It’s a pity we’re not at war.

We all remember Bush’s stimulus plan to get the US out of the 2000/1 recession. Tax cuts for the rich, two foreign wars, and a nice couple of contracts handed out to Blackwater Security and Haliburton.

Roads? Plenty. A nice little earner for Afghani warlords to secure them too.

Rudd should have learned from Bush - whatever you do, don’t put out a tendor.

And if you’re going to kill off the contractors, make sure it’s on someone else’s watch.

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longweekend58

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Re: Where is this budget emergency
Reply #76 - Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 2:33pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 1:14pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 12:26pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 12:10pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 11:45am:

well thank you for supporting my position about the road-building program. And yes it was more than just roads but it was the building of roads and the like infrastructure. and what parallel do you see between this successful and effective stimulus and the labor stimulus? little to no infrastructure building. no roads, definitely no dams, lots of $ giveaways.

labors stimulus was pitiful. overspent, woefully inefficient and misdirected. the only people who stand an applaud this are those that see that we emerged from the GFC as worlds-best economy yet somehow ignore the fact that we went INTO the GFC as worlds-best economy. Its that old delusion that we discussed earlier that somehow 20 years of reform and sacrifice were irrelevant.

The point is if Rudd had announced our very own New Deal building roads etc you would have bagged it.
No matter what Labor announced you would have bagged it, in fact you didn't even want stimulus & championed tax cuts as was the Liberals preferred action.

You could say through the ballot box we dodged a bullet.

Yet once again we are at the ballot box but it seems this time we will embrace the bullet through the stupid belief that Hockey's magic pudding of less tax, more welfare whilst paying down debt will actually come true.
And here you are arguing it will be so, which I just don't understand Undecided

well, we will never know, will we? because instead of a 'new deal' we got over-priced halls, insulation that people should have bought themselves long ago and cash thrown away - the majority of which wasn't spent. tax cuts ARE a stimulus and we used in other countries eg the USA.

Id appreciate it if you shown the intellectual honesty to bag what I actually said, not some imagination of what you think I might have said in some imaginary hypothetic situation. I don't expect much from most of the rudd-lover clowns but I do expect more from you.

Why would I bag a good idea?
Stimulus along the lines of the New Deal would have been even better than what we got.
What we got, school Halls & insulation were both good ideas(although you'll never admit that) for reasons rehashed here a million times so I'm not bothering again.
The cheques we could have done without, if more stimulus was required it could have been done better, but it was the cherry on top so to speak & not an essential to staving off recession & keeping the bulk of people employed.

I hardly think using the USA or the UK as examples of success at avoiding the GFC is wise, the UK heading for its triple dip & the US whilst improving is still well & truly buggered.
The tax cuts did not stimulate the economy & therefore keep people in their jobs, when your not working your not paying tax so therefore they are worthless.

the UK is really stuffed but it is probably worth remembering that the USA was looking down the barrel of a re-run of the Great Depression. Given that scenario, I would say their stimulus program has been rather successful including the tax cuts. Their economic situation is improving, their unemployment is coming down and growth is increasing. The USA had no chance of avoiding a long recession. their economy was rooted before the GFC even began. IN retrosopect the USA has done remarkably well considering the likely outcome under GWB.

No idea what to do with UK. They look like they are inextricably linked to the European disease of higher taxes, higher social welfare and everything else that is wrong with the socialist economic model.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Where is this budget emergency
Reply #77 - Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 2:35pm

Karnal wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 1:26pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 9:33am:

Karnal wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 12:17am:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 21^st, 2013 at 11:14pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 21^st, 2013 at 8:19pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 21^st, 2013 at 5:36pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 21^st, 2013 at 5:31pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 21^st, 2013 at 5:27pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 21^st, 2013 at 5:22pm:

I've never really understood how funding pink batts made the government responsible for the accidental deaths of independent contractors installing them.

Governments fund all sorts of things - wars, prisons, emergency services, pharmaceuticals. How many people have overdosed on drugs funded under the PBS?

Explain that one, leftards.

ive never understood why of all the industries in Australia rudd chose insulation. were there not 100 other industries that could have shared in the cash which would have stimulated the economy just as well, yet not overdone it so badly?

Perhaps. Who's to blame though - the government who funds it, or the people who clamoured to get them in their homes?

I believe Andrei had them put in his rental property. Nice pink ones. All gratis, of course.

Andrei hates the government for that one. Mind you, he votes in the UK.

again... few people say no to free stuff. That doesn't mean it was right. The stimulus - which apparently we needed long term - could have fixed the bruce highway. It could have built water infrastructure like Howard contracted, then Rudd cancelled and never visited again. all that money and we have so little to show for it. BER is fine for some but hear the stories of people trying to get their own homes built at normal prices while builders were off building school halls at huge profit.

other stimulus ideas:

Taking the GST off cars and other charges to stimulate sales
reducing company tax for a year
eliminate payroll tax for a year to save jobs
Build dams for struggling farming communities
Fix roads

but what did we get??? pink friggin batts and school halls. for $200B I expected a hell of a lot more.

Longy, if I remember rightly, you opposed each and every stimulus measure during the GFC. You would have opposed all those things you mention above, and God forbid anyone building a road or getting no payroll tax getting killed on the job.

You’d have blamed the government no matter what.

Mind you, if it was a Howard government...

what stimulus measures? a massive cash giveaway of which less than 20% made it into stimulatory spending or the BER which spent money with little regard for value or need or the pink batts which addressed just ONE industry out of hundreds and sent companies to the wall as a result.

nothing to criticse there, is there? I gave my suggestsion. Each one of them far worthier and far more effective than one-man-bands idea from the back of an envelope.

One-man band, eh? Guess who dreamed up the pink batts scheme.

Yes, the department of environment when Howard was in office.

Still, criticize away - knock yourself out. My suggestion is that blaming the government for the deaths of contractors is a great leap of faith.

Anyone blame the government for asbestos? Dodgy army catering? The old war wound?

How many Vietnam vets do you hear blaming Harold Holt for their tinitus and alcoholism the way Bolt et al blame Rudd personally for pink batt installation deaths on an almost daily basis?

care to support that with a fact or two?

Common knowledge, innit - like the road building that got us out of the Great Depression.

Can you imagine the Rudd dreaming up the Pink Batts Scheme all on his own? A year into office?

Even for a One-Man Band like Rudd - not possible.

The idea was originally pitched to Turnbull as part of Australia's CO2 emissions target under Howard. It was one of those "Direct Action" schemes Mr Abbott's taken so fondly to. When the GFC hit, Rudd scouted around for stimulus ideas, and this one fit the Rudd environment plan nicely.

My source is Peter Hartcher, SMH political editor.

there is a bit of a difference between a govt-sponsored insulation scheme that SUBSIDISED (rather than paid for) as part of a energy reduction program and the mad rush to spend money under Rudd.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Dsmithy70

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Re: Where is this budget emergency
Reply #78 - Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 2:46pm

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 2:33pm:

No idea what to do with UK. They look like they are inextricably linked to the European disease of higher taxes, higher social welfare and everything else that is wrong with the socialist economic model.

Yet we are staring down the barrel of
Lower taxes
Higher social spending

What the bugger is that?
At least in Europe they tax to cover their outgoings

Can you see the problem?
And what about those poor "self" funded retiree's you were so concerned about with Labors proposed changes to Super?
Under Tony they'll be losing franking credits to cover some strangers baby, at least under Labor they got to keep their 1st 100K.

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REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
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longweekend58

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Re: Where is this budget emergency
Reply #79 - Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 2:52pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 2:46pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 2:33pm:

No idea what to do with UK. They look like they are inextricably linked to the European disease of higher taxes, higher social welfare and everything else that is wrong with the socialist economic model.

Yet we are staring down the barrel of
Lower taxes
Higher social spending

What the bugger is that?
At least in Europe they tax to cover their outgoings

Can you see the problem?
And what about those poor "self" funded retiree's you were so concerned about with Labors proposed changes to Super?
Under Tony they'll be losing franking credits to cover some strangers baby, at least under Labor they got to keep their 1st 100K.

excuse me??? Europe has balanced budgets???? the entirety of Europe's problems are that they have had massive deficit budgeting for decades and apart from Germany, are now all terminally screwed.

It is a bit hard to take the rest of your post seriously with such an incredibly silly statement.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Where is this budget emergency
Reply #80 - Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 2:54pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 2:46pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 2:33pm:

No idea what to do with UK. They look like they are inextricably linked to the European disease of higher taxes, higher social welfare and everything else that is wrong with the socialist economic model.

Yet we are staring down the barrel of
Lower taxes
Higher social spending

What the bugger is that?
At least in Europe they tax to cover their outgoings

Can you see the problem?
And what about those poor "self" funded retiree's you were so concerned about with Labors proposed changes to Super?
Under Tony they'll be losing franking credits to cover some strangers baby, at least under Labor they got to keep their 1st 100K.

PS they are not losing franking credits. they are losing a SMALL POPTION of franking credits (1/20 to be precise) and only then if it is one of the 1/20 of businesses that are involved.

While I disagree with it, it is not at all what is being reported by Rudd etc. But then again he is basically making it up as he goes along anyhow.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Dsmithy70

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Re: Where is this budget emergency
Reply #81 - Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 3:17pm

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 2:52pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 2:46pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 2:33pm:

No idea what to do with UK. They look like they are inextricably linked to the European disease of higher taxes, higher social welfare and everything else that is wrong with the socialist economic model.

Yet we are staring down the barrel of
Lower taxes
Higher social spending

What the bugger is that?
At least in Europe they tax to cover their outgoings

Can you see the problem?
And what about those poor "self" funded retiree's you were so concerned about with Labors proposed changes to Super?
Under Tony they'll be losing franking credits to cover some strangers baby, at least under Labor they got to keep their 1st 100K.

excuse me??? Europe has balanced budgets???? the entirety of Europe's problems are that they have had massive deficit budgeting for decades and apart from Germany, are now all terminally screwed.

It is a bit hard to take the rest of your post seriously with such an incredibly silly statement.

Exactly where are the words balanced budget in my post?
I simply repeated your very own words
Higher taxes
Higher social spending
Taxes are used to cover that social spending or at least a portion of it.

But Tally Ho, keep ignoring the glaring hole in Tony's budget, I'm sure it will just disappear.

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 2:54pm:

PS they are not losing franking credits. they are losing a SMALL POPTION of franking credits (1/20 to be precise) and only then if it is one of the 1/20 of businesses that are involved.

Exactly where does this 1/20th come from?
No mention in this article
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/tony-abbott-admi...

Quote:

On Wednesday, Mr Abbott confirmed that the levy will not qualify for franking credits, meaning that shareholders would lose tax breaks on their dividends.

Shareholders not just retiree's mind you

Quote:

"Why should a retiree who has been saving and working all their life pay for Tony Abbott's paid parental leave scheme through a tax on their savings?"

Hang on that sounds a lot like your argument against the 15% tax over 100K

Quote:

Corporate Tax Association spokesman Frank Drenth has raised concerns about the franking credits issue.

"I really think the Coalition should think twice before compromising the dividend imputation system," he said. "It's not a well thought out policy."

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

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Karnal

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Re: Where is this budget emergency
Reply #82 - Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 3:42pm

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 2:35pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 1:26pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 9:33am:

Karnal wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 12:17am:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 21^st, 2013 at 11:14pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 21^st, 2013 at 8:19pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 21^st, 2013 at 5:36pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 21^st, 2013 at 5:31pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 21^st, 2013 at 5:27pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 21^st, 2013 at 5:22pm:

I've never really understood how funding pink batts made the government responsible for the accidental deaths of independent contractors installing them.

Governments fund all sorts of things - wars, prisons, emergency services, pharmaceuticals. How many people have overdosed on drugs funded under the PBS?

Explain that one, leftards.

ive never understood why of all the industries in Australia rudd chose insulation. were there not 100 other industries that could have shared in the cash which would have stimulated the economy just as well, yet not overdone it so badly?

Perhaps. Who's to blame though - the government who funds it, or the people who clamoured to get them in their homes?

I believe Andrei had them put in his rental property. Nice pink ones. All gratis, of course.

Andrei hates the government for that one. Mind you, he votes in the UK.

again... few people say no to free stuff. That doesn't mean it was right. The stimulus - which apparently we needed long term - could have fixed the bruce highway. It could have built water infrastructure like Howard contracted, then Rudd cancelled and never visited again. all that money and we have so little to show for it. BER is fine for some but hear the stories of people trying to get their own homes built at normal prices while builders were off building school halls at huge profit.

other stimulus ideas:

Taking the GST off cars and other charges to stimulate sales
reducing company tax for a year
eliminate payroll tax for a year to save jobs
Build dams for struggling farming communities
Fix roads

but what did we get??? pink friggin batts and school halls. for $200B I expected a hell of a lot more.

Longy, if I remember rightly, you opposed each and every stimulus measure during the GFC. You would have opposed all those things you mention above, and God forbid anyone building a road or getting no payroll tax getting killed on the job.

You’d have blamed the government no matter what.

Mind you, if it was a Howard government...

what stimulus measures? a massive cash giveaway of which less than 20% made it into stimulatory spending or the BER which spent money with little regard for value or need or the pink batts which addressed just ONE industry out of hundreds and sent companies to the wall as a result.

nothing to criticse there, is there? I gave my suggestsion. Each one of them far worthier and far more effective than one-man-bands idea from the back of an envelope.

One-man band, eh? Guess who dreamed up the pink batts scheme.

Yes, the department of environment when Howard was in office.

Still, criticize away - knock yourself out. My suggestion is that blaming the government for the deaths of contractors is a great leap of faith.

Anyone blame the government for asbestos? Dodgy army catering? The old war wound?

How many Vietnam vets do you hear blaming Harold Holt for their tinitus and alcoholism the way Bolt et al blame Rudd personally for pink batt installation deaths on an almost daily basis?

care to support that with a fact or two?

Common knowledge, innit - like the road building that got us out of the Great Depression.

Can you imagine the Rudd dreaming up the Pink Batts Scheme all on his own? A year into office?

Even for a One-Man Band like Rudd - not possible.

The idea was originally pitched to Turnbull as part of Australia's CO2 emissions target under Howard. It was one of those "Direct Action" schemes Mr Abbott's taken so fondly to. When the GFC hit, Rudd scouted around for stimulus ideas, and this one fit the Rudd environment plan nicely.

My source is Peter Hartcher, SMH political editor.

there is a bit of a difference between a govt-sponsored insulation scheme that SUBSIDISED (rather than paid for) as part of a energy reduction program and the mad rush to spend money under Rudd.

I see. But you're saying a mad rush to build roads would have been preferable.

Your plan is an excellent idea, Longy. We should subsidize (rather than pay for) people to build their own roads.

This is a bit like the Libs' broadband plan. Maybe Mr Abbott can build roads that stop a few meters from people's houses.

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longweekend58

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Re: Where is this budget emergency
Reply #83 - Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 4:15pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 3:17pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 2:52pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 2:46pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 2:33pm:

No idea what to do with UK. They look like they are inextricably linked to the European disease of higher taxes, higher social welfare and everything else that is wrong with the socialist economic model.

Yet we are staring down the barrel of
Lower taxes
Higher social spending

What the bugger is that?
At least in Europe they tax to cover their outgoings

Can you see the problem?
And what about those poor "self" funded retiree's you were so concerned about with Labors proposed changes to Super?
Under Tony they'll be losing franking credits to cover some strangers baby, at least under Labor they got to keep their 1st 100K.

excuse me??? Europe has balanced budgets???? the entirety of Europe's problems are that they have had massive deficit budgeting for decades and apart from Germany, are now all terminally screwed.

It is a bit hard to take the rest of your post seriously with such an incredibly silly statement.

Exactly where are the words balanced budget in my post?
I simply repeated your very own words
Higher taxes
Higher social spending
Taxes are used to cover that social spending or at least a portion of it.

But Tally Ho, keep ignoring the glaring hole in Tony's budget, I'm sure it will just disappear.

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 2:54pm:

PS they are not losing franking credits. they are losing a SMALL POPTION of franking credits (1/20 to be precise) and only then if it is one of the 1/20 of businesses that are involved.

Exactly where does this 1/20th come from?
No mention in this article
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/tony-abbott-admi...

Quote:

On Wednesday, Mr Abbott confirmed that the levy will not qualify for franking credits, meaning that shareholders would lose tax breaks on their dividends.

Shareholders not just retiree's mind you

Quote:

"Why should a retiree who has been saving and working all their life pay for Tony Abbott's paid parental leave scheme through a tax on their savings?"

Hang on that sounds a lot like your argument against the 15% tax over 100K

Quote:

Corporate Tax Association spokesman Frank Drenth has raised concerns about the franking credits issue.

"I really think the Coalition should think twice before compromising the dividend imputation system," he said. "It's not a well thought out policy."

How else is anyone supposed to interpret "At least in Europe they tax to cover their outgoings"

If it doesn't mean 'balanced budget' then it means they tax to contribute to their outgoings which is as pointless as comment as you could make.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Where is this budget emergency
Reply #84 - Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 4:17pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 3:17pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 2:52pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 2:46pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 2:33pm:

No idea what to do with UK. They look like they are inextricably linked to the European disease of higher taxes, higher social welfare and everything else that is wrong with the socialist economic model.

Yet we are staring down the barrel of
Lower taxes
Higher social spending

What the bugger is that?
At least in Europe they tax to cover their outgoings

Can you see the problem?
And what about those poor "self" funded retiree's you were so concerned about with Labors proposed changes to Super?
Under Tony they'll be losing franking credits to cover some strangers baby, at least under Labor they got to keep their 1st 100K.

excuse me??? Europe has balanced budgets???? the entirety of Europe's problems are that they have had massive deficit budgeting for decades and apart from Germany, are now all terminally screwed.

It is a bit hard to take the rest of your post seriously with such an incredibly silly statement.

Exactly where are the words balanced budget in my post?
I simply repeated your very own words
Higher taxes
Higher social spending
Taxes are used to cover that social spending or at least a portion of it.

But Tally Ho, keep ignoring the glaring hole in Tony's budget, I'm sure it will just disappear.

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 2:54pm:

PS they are not losing franking credits. they are losing a SMALL POPTION of franking credits (1/20 to be precise) and only then if it is one of the 1/20 of businesses that are involved.

Exactly where does this 1/20th come from?
No mention in this article
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/tony-abbott-admi...

Quote:

On Wednesday, Mr Abbott confirmed that the levy will not qualify for franking credits, meaning that shareholders would lose tax breaks on their dividends.

Shareholders not just retiree's mind you

Quote:

"Why should a retiree who has been saving and working all their life pay for Tony Abbott's paid parental leave scheme through a tax on their savings?"

Hang on that sounds a lot like your argument against the 15% tax over 100K

Quote:

Corporate Tax Association spokesman Frank Drenth has raised concerns about the franking credits issue.

"I really think the Coalition should think twice before compromising the dividend imputation system," he said. "It's not a well thought out policy."

the 1/20 comes from an actual understanding of franking credits which the pro-labor Age declined to report on. Franking credits are not being disbanded. THAT would be big news. Rather the 1.5% levy would not attract a franking credit which is consistent with the fact that levies of other kinds don't get franking credits either. that 1.5% is 1/20 of the current 30% franking credit and it wil apply to just 1/20 of companies

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Where is this budget emergency
Reply #85 - Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 4:19pm

Karnal wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 3:42pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 2:35pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 1:26pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 9:33am:

Karnal wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 12:17am:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 21^st, 2013 at 11:14pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 21^st, 2013 at 8:19pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 21^st, 2013 at 5:36pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 21^st, 2013 at 5:31pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 21^st, 2013 at 5:27pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 21^st, 2013 at 5:22pm:

I've never really understood how funding pink batts made the government responsible for the accidental deaths of independent contractors installing them.

Governments fund all sorts of things - wars, prisons, emergency services, pharmaceuticals. How many people have overdosed on drugs funded under the PBS?

Explain that one, leftards.

ive never understood why of all the industries in Australia rudd chose insulation. were there not 100 other industries that could have shared in the cash which would have stimulated the economy just as well, yet not overdone it so badly?

Perhaps. Who's to blame though - the government who funds it, or the people who clamoured to get them in their homes?

I believe Andrei had them put in his rental property. Nice pink ones. All gratis, of course.

Andrei hates the government for that one. Mind you, he votes in the UK.

again... few people say no to free stuff. That doesn't mean it was right. The stimulus - which apparently we needed long term - could have fixed the bruce highway. It could have built water infrastructure like Howard contracted, then Rudd cancelled and never visited again. all that money and we have so little to show for it. BER is fine for some but hear the stories of people trying to get their own homes built at normal prices while builders were off building school halls at huge profit.

other stimulus ideas:

Taking the GST off cars and other charges to stimulate sales
reducing company tax for a year
eliminate payroll tax for a year to save jobs
Build dams for struggling farming communities
Fix roads

but what did we get??? pink friggin batts and school halls. for $200B I expected a hell of a lot more.

Longy, if I remember rightly, you opposed each and every stimulus measure during the GFC. You would have opposed all those things you mention above, and God forbid anyone building a road or getting no payroll tax getting killed on the job.

You’d have blamed the government no matter what.

Mind you, if it was a Howard government...

what stimulus measures? a massive cash giveaway of which less than 20% made it into stimulatory spending or the BER which spent money with little regard for value or need or the pink batts which addressed just ONE industry out of hundreds and sent companies to the wall as a result.

nothing to criticse there, is there? I gave my suggestsion. Each one of them far worthier and far more effective than one-man-bands idea from the back of an envelope.

One-man band, eh? Guess who dreamed up the pink batts scheme.

Yes, the department of environment when Howard was in office.

Still, criticize away - knock yourself out. My suggestion is that blaming the government for the deaths of contractors is a great leap of faith.

Anyone blame the government for asbestos? Dodgy army catering? The old war wound?

How many Vietnam vets do you hear blaming Harold Holt for their tinitus and alcoholism the way Bolt et al blame Rudd personally for pink batt installation deaths on an almost daily basis?

care to support that with a fact or two?

Common knowledge, innit - like the road building that got us out of the Great Depression.

Can you imagine the Rudd dreaming up the Pink Batts Scheme all on his own? A year into office?

Even for a One-Man Band like Rudd - not possible.

The idea was originally pitched to Turnbull as part of Australia's CO2 emissions target under Howard. It was one of those "Direct Action" schemes Mr Abbott's taken so fondly to. When the GFC hit, Rudd scouted around for stimulus ideas, and this one fit the Rudd environment plan nicely.

My source is Peter Hartcher, SMH political editor.

there is a bit of a difference between a govt-sponsored insulation scheme that SUBSIDISED (rather than paid for) as part of a energy reduction program and the mad rush to spend money under Rudd.

I see. But you're saying a mad rush to build roads would have been preferable.

Your plan is an excellent idea, Longy. We should subsidize (rather than pay for) people to build their own roads.

This is a bit like the Libs' broadband plan. Maybe Mr Abbott can build roads that stop a few meters from people's houses.

the 'mad rush' was half the trouble. A competent govt would have had months to prepare a swathe of stimulus projects and implemented them rapidly but responsibly.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Dsmithy70

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Re: Where is this budget emergency
Reply #86 - Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 4:25pm

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 4:17pm:

the 1/20 comes from an actual understanding of franking credits which the pro-labor Age declined to report on. Franking credits are not being disbanded. THAT would be big news. Rather the 1.5% levy would not attract a franking credit which is consistent with the fact that levies of other kinds don't get franking credits either. that 1.5% is 1/20 of the current 30% franking credit and it wil apply to just 1/20 of companies

Fair enough, I thought as much & really should have left it alone without further checking.

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# Gold Member Offline A fool is certain: an ignorant fool, absolutely so Posts: 2603	Re: Where is this budget emergency Reply #87 - Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 4:30pm longweekend58 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 4:19pm: ... A competent govt would have had months to prepare a swathe of stimulus projects and implemented them rapidly but responsibly. Would any government have had months for preparation? If they'd waited months, would it have worked?
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longweekend58

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Re: Where is this budget emergency
Reply #88 - Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 4:35pm

# wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 4:30pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 4:19pm:

... A competent govt would have had months to prepare a swathe of stimulus projects and implemented them rapidly but responsibly.

Would any government have had months for preparation? If they'd waited months, would it have worked?

what makes you think the situation was so dire and so desperate that the economy would plunge into depression if 'something' wasn't done absolute immediately with big buckets of cash?

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Karnal

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Re: Where is this budget emergency
Reply #89 - Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 4:37pm

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 4:19pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 3:42pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 2:35pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 1:26pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 9:33am:

Karnal wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 12:17am:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 21^st, 2013 at 11:14pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 21^st, 2013 at 8:19pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 21^st, 2013 at 5:36pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 21^st, 2013 at 5:31pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 21^st, 2013 at 5:27pm:

Karnal wrote on Aug 21^st, 2013 at 5:22pm:

I've never really understood how funding pink batts made the government responsible for the accidental deaths of independent contractors installing them.

Governments fund all sorts of things - wars, prisons, emergency services, pharmaceuticals. How many people have overdosed on drugs funded under the PBS?

Explain that one, leftards.

ive never understood why of all the industries in Australia rudd chose insulation. were there not 100 other industries that could have shared in the cash which would have stimulated the economy just as well, yet not overdone it so badly?

Perhaps. Who's to blame though - the government who funds it, or the people who clamoured to get them in their homes?

I believe Andrei had them put in his rental property. Nice pink ones. All gratis, of course.

Andrei hates the government for that one. Mind you, he votes in the UK.

again... few people say no to free stuff. That doesn't mean it was right. The stimulus - which apparently we needed long term - could have fixed the bruce highway. It could have built water infrastructure like Howard contracted, then Rudd cancelled and never visited again. all that money and we have so little to show for it. BER is fine for some but hear the stories of people trying to get their own homes built at normal prices while builders were off building school halls at huge profit.

other stimulus ideas:

Taking the GST off cars and other charges to stimulate sales
reducing company tax for a year
eliminate payroll tax for a year to save jobs
Build dams for struggling farming communities
Fix roads

but what did we get??? pink friggin batts and school halls. for $200B I expected a hell of a lot more.

Longy, if I remember rightly, you opposed each and every stimulus measure during the GFC. You would have opposed all those things you mention above, and God forbid anyone building a road or getting no payroll tax getting killed on the job.

You’d have blamed the government no matter what.

Mind you, if it was a Howard government...

what stimulus measures? a massive cash giveaway of which less than 20% made it into stimulatory spending or the BER which spent money with little regard for value or need or the pink batts which addressed just ONE industry out of hundreds and sent companies to the wall as a result.

nothing to criticse there, is there? I gave my suggestsion. Each one of them far worthier and far more effective than one-man-bands idea from the back of an envelope.

One-man band, eh? Guess who dreamed up the pink batts scheme.

Yes, the department of environment when Howard was in office.

Still, criticize away - knock yourself out. My suggestion is that blaming the government for the deaths of contractors is a great leap of faith.

Anyone blame the government for asbestos? Dodgy army catering? The old war wound?

How many Vietnam vets do you hear blaming Harold Holt for their tinitus and alcoholism the way Bolt et al blame Rudd personally for pink batt installation deaths on an almost daily basis?

care to support that with a fact or two?

Common knowledge, innit - like the road building that got us out of the Great Depression.

Can you imagine the Rudd dreaming up the Pink Batts Scheme all on his own? A year into office?

Even for a One-Man Band like Rudd - not possible.

The idea was originally pitched to Turnbull as part of Australia's CO2 emissions target under Howard. It was one of those "Direct Action" schemes Mr Abbott's taken so fondly to. When the GFC hit, Rudd scouted around for stimulus ideas, and this one fit the Rudd environment plan nicely.

My source is Peter Hartcher, SMH political editor.

there is a bit of a difference between a govt-sponsored insulation scheme that SUBSIDISED (rather than paid for) as part of a energy reduction program and the mad rush to spend money under Rudd.

I see. But you're saying a mad rush to build roads would have been preferable.

Your plan is an excellent idea, Longy. We should subsidize (rather than pay for) people to build their own roads.

This is a bit like the Libs' broadband plan. Maybe Mr Abbott can build roads that stop a few meters from people's houses.

the 'mad rush' was half the trouble. A competent govt would have had months to prepare a swathe of stimulus projects and implemented them rapidly but responsibly.

Gee Longy, make up your mind. You said you didn't want a swathe of well-prepared stimulus projects. You wanted tax cuts and roads.

Mind you, the NBN hasn't been a mad rush, has it? Now that's competency.

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