Australian Politics Forum - Aussie baseball player killed.

Winston Smith

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Re: Aussie baseball player killed.
Reply #60 - Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 4:03pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 3:41pm:

Winston Smith wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 3:30pm:

But these types of rubbish need to be disposed of, if there is any crack at all in the resolve of civil society, a culture will form around exploiting it, that is just the nature of living things. So sad and cruel as it may seem, just as with the boat people, a line HAS to be drawn and allowed to sink in.

The use of premeditated state-sanctioned killing as a form of punishment (or a "line") is certainly not the sign of a civilised society.

Winston Smith wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 3:30pm:

So basically we have to suck it up and live in fear ..

I don't live in fear.

Most people don't.

You are trying to argue that no price is too high to preserve the semantics definition of 'civil' even if it compromises what you set out to protect. I think there are logical flaws there.

As far as fear goes, you probably haven't been bashed, raped or intimidated lately.

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Winston Smith Gold Member Offline Ministry of Truth Posts: 1549 Oceania Gender:	Re: Aussie baseball player killed. Reply #61 - Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 4:04pm Life_goes_on wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 3:47pm: Quote: So basically we have to suck it up and live in fear I don't live in fear. What are you scared of? The fear that you can be assaulted or intimidated on the whim of a thug and cannot meaningfully defend yourself.
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Life_goes_on Gold Member Offline Posts: 4772 400kms south of Yobsville, Qld Gender:	Re: Aussie baseball player killed. Reply #62 - Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 4:10pm Really? I don't go around thinking I'm about to be assaulted.
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Winston Smith

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Re: Aussie baseball player killed.
Reply #63 - Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 4:27pm

Life_goes_on wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 4:10pm:

Really?
I don't go around thinking I'm about to be assaulted.

How would you feel if you were?

What if you were out walking alone one evening, minding your own business, out of view and earshot of anyone and you were approached by a thug intent on beating, robbing or raping you? This happens quite frequently, you can see it in the crime statistics. He doesn't care about the law and there are no police men around to protect you. What is stopping any thug from preying upon you or anyone else smaller or weaker than them?

I have been randomly assaulted on many occasions, just by resisting thuggery or refusing to shut my mouth. The only thing that stopped me from being beaten to death or into a vegetative coma are the fact that I was young and fit, had a bit of martial arts training (not that it really helps), but more importantly I was usually carrying a mobile phone, a long razor sharp knife and pepper spray, which I am able to deploy when fleeing fails.

But if something happened and I was caught I'd probably go to jail. Luckily for me I got through my younger years without anything serious happening. But unless you want to be submissive to any random thug who decides to make you his bitch, you have to face prison for defending yourself in Australia.

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« Last Edit: Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 4:33pm by Winston Smith »

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 138026 Gender:	Re: Aussie baseball player killed. Reply #64 - Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 8:11am Winston Smith wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 4:03pm: As far as fear goes, you probably haven't been bashed, raped or intimidated lately. Nor do I know anyone who has been bashed or raped lately. Hence, I don't live my life in irrational fear. Fear won't prevent one from becoming a victim.
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 138026 Gender:	Re: Aussie baseball player killed. Reply #65 - Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 8:13am Winston Smith wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 4:27pm: ... you have to face prison for defending yourself in Australia. No. That's quite simply incorrect.
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Postmodern Trendoid Gold Member Offline International socialist Posts: 892 Gender:	Re: Aussie baseball player killed. Reply #66 - Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 11:02pm After the progressive revolution white people won't be allowed to intimidate people any more. Non-white people will be in charge and there'll be no more violence and we'll all live in harmony.
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...

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Re: Aussie baseball player killed.
Reply #67 - Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 11:06pm

Winston Smith wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 4:27pm:

Life_goes_on wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 4:10pm:

Really?
I don't go around thinking I'm about to be assaulted.

How would you feel if you were?

What if you were out walking alone one evening, minding your own business, out of view and earshot of anyone and you were approached by a thug intent on beating, robbing or raping you? This happens quite frequently, you can see it in the crime statistics. He doesn't care about the law and there are no police men around to protect you. What is stopping any thug from preying upon you or anyone else smaller or weaker than them?

I have been randomly assaulted on many occasions, just by resisting thuggery or refusing to shut my mouth. The only thing that stopped me from being beaten to death or into a vegetative coma are the fact that I was young and fit, had a bit of martial arts training (not that it really helps), but more importantly I was usually carrying a mobile phone, a long razor sharp knife and pepper spray, which I am able to deploy when fleeing fails.

But if something happened and I was caught I'd probably go to jail. Luckily for me I got through my younger years without anything serious happening. But unless you want to be submissive to any random thug who decides to make you his bitch, you have to face prison for defending yourself in Australia.

yeah uh...maybe you shouldn't carry knives and pepper spray then?

Where does this idea you can't defend yourself come from?

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gizmo_2655

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Re: Aussie baseball player killed.
Reply #68 - Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 11:42pm

... wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 11:06pm:

Winston Smith wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 4:27pm:

Life_goes_on wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 4:10pm:

Really?
I don't go around thinking I'm about to be assaulted.

How would you feel if you were?

What if you were out walking alone one evening, minding your own business, out of view and earshot of anyone and you were approached by a thug intent on beating, robbing or raping you? This happens quite frequently, you can see it in the crime statistics. He doesn't care about the law and there are no police men around to protect you. What is stopping any thug from preying upon you or anyone else smaller or weaker than them?

I have been randomly assaulted on many occasions, just by resisting thuggery or refusing to shut my mouth. The only thing that stopped me from being beaten to death or into a vegetative coma are the fact that I was young and fit, had a bit of martial arts training (not that it really helps), but more importantly I was usually carrying a mobile phone, a long razor sharp knife and pepper spray, which I am able to deploy when fleeing fails.

But if something happened and I was caught I'd probably go to jail. Luckily for me I got through my younger years without anything serious happening. But unless you want to be submissive to any random thug who decides to make you his bitch, you have to face prison for defending yourself in Australia.

yeah uh...maybe you shouldn't carry knives and pepper spray then?

Where does this idea you can't defend yourself come from?

You CAN defend yourself, just not with items that are more illegal than the crime the other person is committing..(unless you live in WA, carrying pepper spray in public is an offence).

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"I just get sick of people who place a label on someone else with their own definition.

It's similar to a strawman fallacy"
Bobbythebat

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 138026 Gender:	Re: Aussie baseball player killed. Reply #69 - Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 11:49pm gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 11:42pm: ..(unless you live in WA, carrying pepper spray in public is an offence). Yet charging $4.50 for a coffee and $7.50 for a sandwich isn't.
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Winston Smith

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Re: Aussie baseball player killed.
Reply #70 - Aug 24^th, 2013 at 1:29am

greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 8:11am:

Winston Smith wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 4:03pm:

As far as fear goes, you probably haven't been bashed, raped or intimidated lately.

Nor do I know anyone who has been bashed or raped lately.

Hence, I don't live my life in irrational fear.

Fear won't prevent one from becoming a victim.

No, being prepared to do whatever it takes will though. But this isn't about fear or statistics. It's about being able to meaningfully defend yourself against an assailant without breaking the law. Dismissing that assertion on the basis that you haven't personally been in that situation, is logically flawed. The only thing that might stop a thug is the consideration of the possibility they might die in the process.

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Winston Smith Gold Member Offline Ministry of Truth Posts: 1549 Oceania Gender:	Re: Aussie baseball player killed. Reply #71 - Aug 24^th, 2013 at 1:35am greggerypeccary wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 8:13am: Winston Smith wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 4:27pm: ... you have to face prison for defending yourself in Australia. No. That's quite simply incorrect. Not if you want to meaningfully defend yourself in a 'king hit', gangbashing, opportunistic violence culture.
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Winston Smith

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Re: Aussie baseball player killed.
Reply #72 - Aug 24^th, 2013 at 1:43am

... wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 11:06pm:

Winston Smith wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 4:27pm:

Life_goes_on wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 4:10pm:

Really?
I don't go around thinking I'm about to be assaulted.

How would you feel if you were?

What if you were out walking alone one evening, minding your own business, out of view and earshot of anyone and you were approached by a thug intent on beating, robbing or raping you? This happens quite frequently, you can see it in the crime statistics. He doesn't care about the law and there are no police men around to protect you. What is stopping any thug from preying upon you or anyone else smaller or weaker than them?

I have been randomly assaulted on many occasions, just by resisting thuggery or refusing to shut my mouth. The only thing that stopped me from being beaten to death or into a vegetative coma are the fact that I was young and fit, had a bit of martial arts training (not that it really helps), but more importantly I was usually carrying a mobile phone, a long razor sharp knife and pepper spray, which I am able to deploy when fleeing fails.

But if something happened and I was caught I'd probably go to jail. Luckily for me I got through my younger years without anything serious happening. But unless you want to be submissive to any random thug who decides to make you his bitch, you have to face prison for defending yourself in Australia.

yeah uh...maybe you shouldn't carry knives and pepper spray then?

Where does this idea you can't defend yourself come from?

In the real world, violence isn't a planned and agreed to thing. One must often act pre-emtively, with weapons of some sort to avoid the worst of it. Waiting to get punched in the face or pushed to the ground before you retaliate too late. Last time I checked, you could only carry a small pen-knife in Australia, which won't help when poo gets real.

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Winston Smith

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Re: Aussie baseball player killed.
Reply #73 - Aug 24^th, 2013 at 1:45am

gizmo_2655 wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 11:42pm:

... wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 11:06pm:

Winston Smith wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 4:27pm:

Life_goes_on wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 4:10pm:

Really?
I don't go around thinking I'm about to be assaulted.

How would you feel if you were?

What if you were out walking alone one evening, minding your own business, out of view and earshot of anyone and you were approached by a thug intent on beating, robbing or raping you? This happens quite frequently, you can see it in the crime statistics. He doesn't care about the law and there are no police men around to protect you. What is stopping any thug from preying upon you or anyone else smaller or weaker than them?

I have been randomly assaulted on many occasions, just by resisting thuggery or refusing to shut my mouth. The only thing that stopped me from being beaten to death or into a vegetative coma are the fact that I was young and fit, had a bit of martial arts training (not that it really helps), but more importantly I was usually carrying a mobile phone, a long razor sharp knife and pepper spray, which I am able to deploy when fleeing fails.

But if something happened and I was caught I'd probably go to jail. Luckily for me I got through my younger years without anything serious happening. But unless you want to be submissive to any random thug who decides to make you his bitch, you have to face prison for defending yourself in Australia.

yeah uh...maybe you shouldn't carry knives and pepper spray then?

Where does this idea you can't defend yourself come from?

You CAN defend yourself, just not with items that are more illegal than the crime the other person is committing..(unless you live in WA, carrying pepper spray in public is an offence).

Lucky I didn't let that stop me, it saved me from a bashing on at least 2 occasions. Oh look, now I'm a criminal.. Sad

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UnSubRocky

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Re: Aussie baseball player killed.
Reply #74 - Aug 24^th, 2013 at 4:33am

Judging by the tone of the phone call to emergency services, I can assume that Lane had about 2 minutes of emergency service help delayed by the caller. Not that I am condemning the caller at all. Just that she didn't seem to have a clue as to how serious the shooting was, and how you could bleed out in minutes. The 911 dispatcher didn't seem all that fussed either, but I'm assuming that she did efficiently dispatch an ambulance and police to the scene. But atleast the caller didn't do something like keep walking or assume that the guy was drunk, like some have. So, good on her for that.

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At this stage...

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