Australian Politics Forum - It's not the Sun

muso

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It's not the Sun
Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 2:36pm

This graph demonstrates quite effectively why the warming of the last 50 years or so is not due to solar activity. As I explained in another thread, we can measure solar activity. An independent solar laboratory in Switzerland called PMOD carry out routine measurements of total solar irradiance in Watts per square metre. Past solar irradiance has been reconstructed by the Max Planck Institute in Belgium (Director Sami Solanki).

As you can see from the graph, there was increasing solar activity from the mid 19th Century up to 1960, and from that point on, it started to decrease. At the same time, global temperatures continued to rise, due to the well established greenhouse gas properties of the increasing atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide. The actual increase in temperature is more than what would be expected from the CO2 alone. That's where other feedbacks come in. The AURA satellite has demonstrated a progressive decrease in longwave infrared radiation escaping to space and characteristic changes in the absorption spectra for carbon dioxide and water.

You can download the solar irradiance data from the Max Planck Website, here:

http://www.mps.mpg.de/projects/sun-climate/

The Global mean temperature is from the NASA GISS Land/Ocean data, which can be downloaded here:

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/tabledata_v3/GLB.Ts+dSST.txt

These are the facts. Now I'll guess that we'll get some disinformation and the usual heckling.

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« Last Edit: Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 3:49pm by muso »

solar_irradiance.jpg (23 KB | 57 )

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Chimp_Logic

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Re: It's not the Sun
Reply #1 - Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 5:04pm

muso wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 2:36pm:

This graph demonstrates quite effectively why the warming of the last 50 years or so is not due to solar activity. As I explained in another thread, we can measure solar activity. An independent solar laboratory in Switzerland called PMOD carry out routine measurements of total solar irradiance in Watts per square metre. Past solar irradiance has been reconstructed by the Max Planck Institute in Belgium (Director Sami Solanki).

As you can see from the graph, there was increasing solar activity from the mid 19th Century up to 1960, and from that point on, it started to decrease. At the same time, global temperatures continued to rise, due to the well established greenhouse gas properties of the increasing atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide. The actual increase in temperature is more than what would be expected from the CO2 alone. That's where other feedbacks come in. The AURA satellite has demonstrated a progressive decrease in longwave infrared radiation escaping to space and characteristic changes in the absorption spectra for carbon dioxide and water.

You can download the solar irradiance data from the Max Planck Website, here:

http://www.mps.mpg.de/projects/sun-climate/

The Global mean temperature is from the NASA GISS Land/Ocean data, which can be downloaded here:

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/tabledata_v3/GLB.Ts+dSST.txt

These are the facts. Now I'll guess that we'll get some disinformation and the usual heckling.

this graph of solar irradiance variation and global temperature rise has often been cited in AGW denialist church groups and cult temples, BUT mysteriously, the data is chopped off at about the year 1980. Funny that.

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Mini Ice Age (2014-2029)
Dr Sircus cures cancer with Baking Soda and Magnesium - Jethro the MENTAL GIANT & his flute madness

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# Gold Member Offline A fool is certain: an ignorant fool, absolutely so Posts: 2603	Re: It's not the Sun Reply #2 - Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 9:01pm Chimp_Logic wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 5:04pm: ... the data is chopped off at about the year 1980. ... That's because 1980 is when the conspiracy began. Those gravy-train riding scientists started interfering with the sun.
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rabbitoh07

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Re: It's not the Sun
Reply #3 - Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 10:05pm

Also - if the sun were causing the observed warming of recent decades - we would expect the whole of the atmosphere to warm.

the stratosphere however is cooling, due to the decrease in outgoing longwave radiation resulting from more energy being absorbed and re-emitted back to earth by anthropogenic greenhouse gasses

http://www.usgcrp.gov/usgcrp/Library/ocp2006/ocp2006-hi-clivar.htm

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progressiveslol Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17029	Re: It's not the Sun Reply #4 - Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 9:25am And you look at that graph and dont even realise that the 1930's heat has been wiped off the graph. That must be a Hansen graph. Bogus to the hilt.
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Chimp_Logic Gold Member Offline πολιτικός Posts: 4826 Mawson Base Gender:	Re: It's not the Sun Reply #5 - Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 10:43am progressiveslol wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 9:25am: And you look at that graph and dont even realise that the 1930's heat has been wiped off the graph. That must be a Hansen graph. Bogus to the hilt. ....yes one can only consult the data disseminated by EXXON and the Peabody Coal Company
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Chimp_Logic

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Re: It's not the Sun
Reply #6 - Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 10:50am

# wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 9:01pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 5:04pm:

... the data is chopped off at about the year 1980. ...

That's because 1980 is when the conspiracy began. Those gravy-train riding scientists started interfering with the sun. Wink

Yes the only people who are deceptive are the climatologists and scientists that are protecting their wages and continuing their grants.

Couldn't possibly be the multinational corprations who are swimming in trillions of dollars of fossil fuel profits. EXXON is the most profitable single corporation or company in human history. Nothing to lose there. They will sit back and shrink and disinvest into solar energy or shoe manufacture

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Mini Ice Age (2014-2029)
Dr Sircus cures cancer with Baking Soda and Magnesium - Jethro the MENTAL GIANT & his flute madness

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Ajax

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CO2 has never controlled
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Re: It's not the Sun
Reply #7 - Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 2:56pm

So where did you get that graph from......???

Let me guess sceptical science I bet......!!!!!!!

Solar irradiance chart

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2013/08jan_sunclimate/

The sun is responsible for climate change here on Earth always has been always will be otherwise we would still be a molten rock of lava.

The sun controls temperature here on Earth not man's tiny CO2 emissions until that fateful day when our sun turns into a red giant and swallows up the Earth it will always control the temperature here on Earth.

Most Australians know that mans miniscule CO2 emissions don't control climate change here on Earth.

Not even the natural CO2 from the ecosystems controls temperature here on Earth.

How do we know well look into our history.

Most Australians know that CO2 follows temperature by a lag of about 800 years.

http://s155.n46.n171.n68.static.myhostcenter.com/WVFossils/Reference_Docs/Geocar...

Now according to you lot we should have a steady rise in temperature because as the graph below shows nearly one third of ALL MANMADE CO2 emissions have been AFTER 1998, yet temperatures are dropping.

Therefore you don't need to be a rocket scientist to work out that CO2 is not the cause of the current temperature rise, it may contribute very slightly in accordance with its miniscule presence in the atmosphere.

But there is noway the warming of the last 50 years can be attributed to CO2 especially man's little contribution.

ipcc chart

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/04/11/does-co2-correlate-with-temperature-histor...

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« Last Edit: Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 3:19pm by Ajax »

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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#

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Re: It's not the Sun
Reply #8 - Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 3:09pm

Ajax wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 2:56pm:

...
The sun is responsible for climate change here on Earth always has been always will be otherwise we would still be a molten rock of lava.
...

So the sun cooled the planet?

Meanwhile, in the universe outside your head, the vast majority of real scientist warn of risk. What are your qualifications again?

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Ajax

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Re: It's not the Sun
Reply #9 - Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 3:17pm

# wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 3:09pm:

Ajax wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 2:56pm:

...
The sun is responsible for climate change here on Earth always has been always will be otherwise we would still be a molten rock of lava.
...

So the sun cooled the planet?

Meanwhile, in the universe outside your head, the vast majority of real scientist warn of risk. What are your qualifications again?

I tellya what if we do happen to go into a very cold spell for a few decades these global warming scientists better head for the hills.

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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muso

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Re: It's not the Sun
Reply #10 - Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 3:57pm

Ajax wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 2:56pm:

So where did you get that graph from......???

Let me guess sceptical science I bet......!!!!!!!

Didn't you read the post? I provided the source data.

Quote:

Solar irradiance chart
http://i41.tinypic.com/241pksk.jpg
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2013/08jan_sunclimate/

Now take that data and calculate 11 year running averages and you'll probably end up with the same result.

Quote:

The sun is responsible for climate change here on Earth always has been always will be otherwise we would still be a molten rock of lava.

The sun controls temperature here on Earth not man's tiny CO2 emissions until that fateful day when our sun turns into a red giant and swallows up the Earth it will always control the temperature here on Earth.

Sorry to upset your simplistic model, but many other factors such as the Earth's orbit, ocean currents, air circulation, aerosol pollution, volcanic emissions etc all affect the climate over geological time.

Quote:

Most Australians know that mans miniscule CO2 emissions don't control climate change here on Earth.

Not even the natural CO2 from the ecosystems controls temperature here on Earth.

Direct measurements contradict what you are saying. Direct measurements of transmitted longwave infrared emissions to space.

Quote:

How do we know well look into our history.

Most Australians know that CO2 follows temperature by a lag of about 800 years.

http://i43.tinypic.com/fk03et.jpg
http://s155.n46.n171.n68.static.myhostcenter.com/WVFossils/Reference_Docs/Geocar...

Wrong graph. So what you're saying is that during the ice ages, when there were no massive emissions of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, CO2 emissions did not drive global temperatures.

Yes... that er makes sense Roll Eyes

Of course in another post, you reiterated the account that most climatologists give. Maybe you made a mistake?

Quote:

Now according to you lot we should have a steady rise in temperature because as the graph below shows nearly one third of ALL MANMADE CO2 emissions have been AFTER 1998, yet temperatures are dropping.

According to who? Nobody is making this claim except you. Of course I already told you that, but you're obviously running out of strawmen to use.

Quote:

Therefore you don't need to be a rocket scientist to work out that CO2 is not the cause of the current temperature rise, it may contribute very slightly in accordance with its miniscule presence in the atmosphere.

2mg per kilogram of body weight (2ppm) is another miniscule amount. Now according to you, that should contribute very slightly to you health. Would you like some cyanide to prove your point about it being miniscule?

Quote:

But there is noway the warming of the last 50 years can be attributed to CO2 especially man's little contribution.

way.

Quote:

ipcc chart

No it's not. Would you like to apologise again for that recycled lie like you did the last time? You really have a short memory.

It's not really an IPCC Chart is it? Isn't it an Anthony Watts Chart?

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Ajax

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Re: It's not the Sun
Reply #11 - Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 6:46pm

No warming in the last 17 years.

Yet more than one third of ALL MANMADE CO2 emissions have gone up into our atmosphere since 1998.

How then can CO2 be the prime mover for climate change and temperature here on Earth.

Stop listening to politicized bodies (IPCC) giving you junk science.

AGW is a lie and a scam.

Lets hope we put an end to it before the United nations and the bankers that run it tax us for EVER on the air we breath.

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« Last Edit: Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 6:52pm by Ajax »

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: It's not the Sun
Reply #12 - Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 7:03pm

Ajax wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 3:17pm:

# wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 3:09pm:

Ajax wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 2:56pm:

...
The sun is responsible for climate change here on Earth always has been always will be otherwise we would still be a molten rock of lava.
...

So the sun cooled the planet?

Meanwhile, in the universe outside your head, the vast majority of real scientist warn of risk. What are your qualifications again?

I tellya what if we do happen to go into a very cold spell for a few decades these global warming scientists better head for the hills.

wait and see: of course- the old wait and move along there's nothing to see here approach from the fascists are what fascists do approach!!

status quo say the globalists: business certainty say the tryhard daddy lovers- some people just love daddy so so much it hurts when he tells them mining is selling rock for next to nothing to make rich people richer and has nothing to do with building infrastucture for the host country- in fact: you should build negative infrastructure to make you uncompetitive and more reliant on being a quarry!!

Cheesy

...they'll even put a copper noose around their friends kids kids necks to please good ol' daddykins: he must be oh so such a super good daddykins!

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: It's not the Sun
Reply #13 - Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 7:10pm

Ajax wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 6:46pm:

No warming in the last 17 years.

Yet more than one third of ALL MANMADE CO2 emissions have gone up into our atmosphere since 1998.

How then can CO2 be the prime mover for climate change and temperature here on Earth.

Stop listening to politicized bodies (IPCC) giving you junk science.

AGW is a lie and a scam.

Lets hope we put an end to it before the United nations and the bankers that run it tax us for EVER on the air we breath.

http://i43.tinypic.com/nejm91.png

Are you saying exxon et al aren't politicized?

Um, what science are they giving you again??

Ajax- don't run away: answer the question you try-hard pretender. I told you already that your nuclear weapons have been rendered impotent and you can no longer hide your greedy little know it all attitude behind them...(or was that someone else... nah, I must have told all you greedy bastards by now!!)

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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Ajax

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Re: It's not the Sun
Reply #14 - Aug 24^th, 2013 at 11:50am

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 7:10pm:

Ajax wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 6:46pm:

No warming in the last 17 years.

Yet more than one third of ALL MANMADE CO2 emissions have gone up into our atmosphere since 1998.

How then can CO2 be the prime mover for climate change and temperature here on Earth.

Stop listening to politicized bodies (IPCC) giving you junk science.

AGW is a lie and a scam.

Lets hope we put an end to it before the United nations and the bankers that run it tax us for EVER on the air we breath.

http://i43.tinypic.com/nejm91.png

Are you saying exxon et al aren't politicized?

Um, what science are they giving you again??

Ajax- don't run away: answer the question you try-hard pretender. I told you already that your nuclear weapons have been rendered impotent and you can no longer hide your greedy little know it all attitude behind them...(or was that someone else... nah, I must have told all you greedy bastards by now!!)

Hey dude you will find that those that are pushing for a tax on CO2 worldwide actually own the oil & Gas, Mining industry.

Those industries are at the forefront of pushing the AGW agenda.

I cant believe you AGW religious zealots have had the wool pulled that far over your eyes.

Wake up.......FFS.

Oil & Gas, Mining Corporations all over the world are all in favour of trading carbon credits.

And they are preparing themselves to trade carbon credits so they can make a profit.

What you think they wouldn't want a part of the $2 trillion dollar carbon credit market...???????

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« Last Edit: Aug 24^th, 2013 at 12:00pm by Ajax »

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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