Australian Politics Forum - Can someone explain preferences to me?

woof woof Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1518 Gender:	Re: Can someone explain preferences to me? Reply #15 - Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 10:04am who ever gets the most number of primary votes wins, no preferences. You don't see board positions of companies going to preferences.
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cods

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Re: Can someone explain preferences to me?
Reply #16 - Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 10:07am

woof woof wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 10:04am:

who ever gets the most number of primary votes wins, no preferences.

You don't see board positions of companies going to preferences.

thats a fact but they have always done it this way....they claim this way every voter gets a say.. I dunno about that when I see independents only getting in because of preferences...

as you can see the Greens use it as a bargaining tool... Roll Eyes

not a good look I dont think

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 138017 Gender:	Re: Can someone explain preferences to me? Reply #17 - Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 10:09am .
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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Can someone explain preferences to me? Reply #18 - Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 10:11am Exhibit A why I voted NO in the UK referendum to move to this retarded election system.
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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96020 Gender:	Re: Can someone explain preferences to me? Reply #19 - Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 10:16am Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 10:11am: Exhibit A why I voted NO in the UK referendum to move to this retarded election system. Exhibit A why you don't get a vote in this country.
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greggerypeccary Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 138017 Gender:	Re: Can someone explain preferences to me? Reply #20 - Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 10:19am Karnal wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 10:16am: Andrei.Hicks wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 10:11am: Exhibit A why I voted NO in the UK referendum to move to this retarded election system. Exhibit A why you don't get a vote in this country. And that is my preference.
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True Colours

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Re: Can someone explain preferences to me?
Reply #21 - Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 10:28am

Preferences mean nobody has their vote is wasted. Your vote is distributed to one of the two most popular candidates. Of the two most popular candidates, your vote goes to the one that you placed highest - therefore everybody gets a say on which of the two most popular candidates win.

It means that nobody wins without at least 50% of the votes.

In the first past the post system, anyone who voted for a minor candidate has their vote wasted.

THe senate works in a similar fashion except that each electorate has six winners instead of one.

In a first past the post system, a person who is like by 30% of the people, but hated by 70% can win an election. Is that democratic?

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RightSadFred

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Re: Can someone explain preferences to me?
Reply #22 - Aug 23^rd, 2013 at 10:41am

True Colours

If you just went to second preferences a person on 30% primary would be unlikely to win.
As I said before I doubt people think of 3rd options, 80%+ seem to vote LIB/NAT/ALP.

Another approach could be to have election reruns for seats that have minority winners with only 1st and 2nd running.

The real test of our current system is that the vast majority seem to want to vote and the vast majority seem to vote correctly which to me seems to be a big tick of acceptance.

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freediver

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Re: Can someone explain preferences to me?
Reply #23 - Aug 24^th, 2013 at 9:36am

woof woof wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 10:48pm:

OK so if e is removed first and the preferences allocated, we then come to d

what happens to d preferences that had e as number 2????

e is out gone see ya, but what happenes to the votes of those who preferenced e 2nd but voted for d

In that situation they go to the third preference.

The Americans call it instant runoff voting, which I think is a much simpler way of understanding it. You have a series of runoff votes. After each round the lowest ranking candidate (or several of them in some circumstances) is eliminated. Everyone gets to vote again, and their vote goes to whoever they listed highest out of the remaining candidates. This continues until someone has 50% of the votes.

In some countries they use the same principle, except you actually have to turn up at the polls again and vote from a limited set of candidates.

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miketrees

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Re: Can someone explain preferences to me?
Reply #24 - Aug 24^th, 2013 at 9:40am

If you only ever have only two candidates first past the post is fine.

When you have more than two you have a problem.

lets say we have an election with three candidates.
1.The liberal
2. Labor
3. The sex with horses party

OK I can assume everywhere other than Tasmania the Libs and Labs will be totally opposed to the Sex with horses party.

If we split the vote three ways Libs 33% lab 33% and Sex with horses party 34%

The Sex with horses party would win with 66% of people totally opposed to them

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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49131 At my desk.	Re: Can someone explain preferences to me? Reply #25 - Aug 24^th, 2013 at 10:30pm The "spoiler effect" is just the beginning of the problems you get with first past the post. There are all sorts of nasty longer term effects caused by people voting insincerely in order to avoid the spoiler effect. http://www.ozpolitic.com/electoral-reform/electoral-reform.html#FPTP-problems
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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Can someone explain preferences to me?
Reply #26 - Aug 25^th, 2013 at 8:21am

miketrees wrote on Aug 24^th, 2013 at 9:40am:

If you only ever have only two candidates first past the post is fine.

When you have more than two you have a problem.

lets say we have an election with three candidates.
1.The liberal
2. Labor
3. The sex with horses party

OK I can assume everywhere other than Tasmania the Libs and Labs will be totally opposed to the Sex with horses party.

If we split the vote three ways Libs 33% lab 33% and Sex with horses party 34%

The Sex with horses party would win with 66% of people totally opposed to them

You just had to make that as offensive as you could huh

SOB

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Torpedo Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 867 Sydney Gender:	Re: Can someone explain preferences to me? Reply #27 - Aug 25^th, 2013 at 10:05am miketrees wrote on Aug 24^th, 2013 at 9:40am: When you have more than two you have a problem. The Sex with horses party would win with 66% of people totally opposed to them Excellent point!!!
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Torpedo Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 867 Sydney Gender:	Re: Can someone explain preferences to me? Reply #28 - Aug 25^th, 2013 at 10:10am In my opinion, since we have such silly voting system, then not the party itself should give preferences, and thus decide who gets to win, but those ppl voted for this party, by their second preferred party. Otherwise, we are seeing bunch of some assholes deciding for the whole country
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freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49131 At my desk.	Re: Can someone explain preferences to me? Reply #29 - Aug 25^th, 2013 at 10:23am That is how it works in our system Torpedo.In the senate you have a choice. In the lower house you have to mark your preferences. In states that do not require you to rank all preferences for state lower house elections, if you do not rank them all, you risk your vote being discarded.
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