Australian Politics Forum - Sea Levels fall! What happened to ACC?

rabbitoh07

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Re: Sea Levels fall! What happened to ACC?
Reply #75 - Aug 30^th, 2013 at 12:49pm

Ajax wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 12:41pm:

Sensational journalism at its best.

Sea levels are rising 10mm/year.......????

Quote:

The world's sea levels fell in 2011 and it's all Australia's fault.

New US research shows Australia's dry soil and mountainous coastline soaked up heavy rainfall in 2010 and 2011 and stopped it from flowing back into the ocean.

That effectively halted a longterm trend of rising sea levels which have been caused by higher temperatures and melting ice sheets.

"No other continent has this combination of atmospheric set-up and topography," scientist John Fasullo, who worked on the study, said in a statement.

"Only in Australia could the atmosphere carry such heavy tropical rains to such a large area, only to have those rains fail to make their way to the ocean."

The world's oceans have been rising in recent decades by around three millimetres every year.

This is partly because heat has caused water to expand, and partly because run-off from retreating glaciers and ice sheets has made its way into the oceans.

But for an 18-month period beginning in 2010, the oceans mysteriously dropped by about seven millimetres, more than offsetting the annual rise, the study says.

The US scientists say this was mainly caused by Australia's uniquely dry soil and land surface.

While some of the water evaporated in the desert sun, much of it sank into the dry, granular soil of the Western Plateau or filled the Lake Eyre basin in the east.

Since 2011, sea levels have been rising at a faster pace of about ten millimetres per year
.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2013/08/22/22/24/aust-sucks-up-ocean-s-water...

This guy wrote the laws on tides

http://www.cmar.csiro.au/sealevel/

Now - we are waiting for you to explain why you have lied 3 times about how much rain needed to be retained on land in 2010/11 to lower the worlds oceans by 7mm.

Why have you 3 times claimed that 100% would need to be retained, when you have been shown that the actual figure is less than 25% of that.

Why the continual lying?

Do you think we don't notice?

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Sea Levels fall! What happened to ACC? Reply #76 - Aug 30^th, 2013 at 1:22pm Ajax, what did you find when you googled "glacial isostasy" as I suggested ?
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Ajax

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Re: Sea Levels fall! What happened to ACC?
Reply #77 - Aug 30^th, 2013 at 1:24pm

rabbitoh07 wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 12:49pm:

Ajax wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 12:41pm:

Sensational journalism at its best.

Sea levels are rising 10mm/year.......????

Quote:

The world's sea levels fell in 2011 and it's all Australia's fault.

New US research shows Australia's dry soil and mountainous coastline soaked up heavy rainfall in 2010 and 2011 and stopped it from flowing back into the ocean.

That effectively halted a longterm trend of rising sea levels which have been caused by higher temperatures and melting ice sheets.

"No other continent has this combination of atmospheric set-up and topography," scientist John Fasullo, who worked on the study, said in a statement.

"Only in Australia could the atmosphere carry such heavy tropical rains to such a large area, only to have those rains fail to make their way to the ocean."

The world's oceans have been rising in recent decades by around three millimetres every year.

This is partly because heat has caused water to expand, and partly because run-off from retreating glaciers and ice sheets has made its way into the oceans.

But for an 18-month period beginning in 2010, the oceans mysteriously dropped by about seven millimetres, more than offsetting the annual rise, the study says.

The US scientists say this was mainly caused by Australia's uniquely dry soil and land surface.

While some of the water evaporated in the desert sun, much of it sank into the dry, granular soil of the Western Plateau or filled the Lake Eyre basin in the east.

Since 2011, sea levels have been rising at a faster pace of about ten millimetres per year
.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2013/08/22/22/24/aust-sucks-up-ocean-s-water...

This guy wrote the laws on tides

http://www.cmar.csiro.au/sealevel/images/CSIRO_GMSL_figure.jpg
http://www.cmar.csiro.au/sealevel/

Now - we are waiting for you to explain why you have lied 3 times about how much rain needed to be retained on land in 2010/11 to lower the worlds oceans by 7mm.

Why have you 3 times claimed that 100% would need to be retained, when you have been shown that the actual figure is less than 25% of that.

Why the continual lying?

Do you think we don't notice?

Hi rabbit

No i knew you would notice.

Dude all rainfall eventually finds its way to the ocean.

Now how much did actually evaporate how much did become run off and how much did go underground..???..is any bodies guess with respect to those percentage guide lines.

I know you're saying that 2500 cubic kilometres may have gone underground.

But that's "may"

You don't know for sure.

We assume that about 89% evaporates then your left with 1100km3.

The one thing i do know is all rainwater goes back into the ocean at some point in time.

And you have to remember the monsoons over Asia they too would have a bit of water in them.

What about rains over other continents and land masses.

Should we also start taking out the rain that fell on them out of the ocean....??????

I guess they had to cover it some way....?

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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muso

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Re: Sea Levels fall! What happened to ACC?
Reply #78 - Aug 30^th, 2013 at 2:29pm

Ajax wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 1:24pm:

I know you're saying that 2500 cubic kilometres may have gone underground.

You didn't even get that bit right. How many times do I have to produce this graph?

As for your dodgy Swedish water diviner mate, his malarkey has been exposed:

http://www.carbonbrief.org/blog/2011/12/rising-incredulity-at-the-spectator%E2%8...

Quote:

These are striking claims that jar with the generally accepted scientific view that sea levels are rising due to climate change, and that this will affect low lying countries.

As a result, Mörner's work has been subjected to close examination by other scientists working on sea level change in the Maldives, including papers from Professor Colin Woodroffe at the University of Wollongong, Professor Philip Woodworth of the Proudman Oceanographic Laboratory, and a group of Australia scientists led by Dr. John Church at the Centre for Australian Weather and Climate Research.

They all criticise Mörner's approach and conclusions - Woodworth examined Mörner's claims from "meteorological and oceanographic perspectives" and found them "implausible". Woodroffe described Mörner's claims as "questionable" pointing out his methodologies do not stand up to scrutiny, and that his conclusions lack supporting evidence. The group of Australian scientists found "no evidence for the fall in sea level at the Maldives as postulated by Mörner."

Futhermore, Mörner's claims about satellite altimetry are in error - the technique shows that sea levels rose by around 3 mm per year between 1993 and 2006.

This brings us to INQUA, the International Union for Quaternary Reseach, a professional association of scientists from over 50 countries who study long-term climate change. Mörner claims to be articulating INQUA's collective view, but based on our inquiries with the organisation this appears to be a very bare misrepresentation.

To the extent that INQUA have a collective view on this issue, it seems diametrically opposed to that of Mörner's. Professor Roland Gehrels of the University of Plymouth is the current president of the INQUA commission on Coastal and Marine Processes - the part of INQUA that now considers sea level change.

He described Mörner as a "very good field scientist" and an "entertaining speaker". But, he says, it is misleading for Mörner to describe 'INQUA's research' as showing that sea levels are not rising.

This guy wrote the laws on tides is a major nutjob

The graph again: (for the sixth time) Roll Eyes

Now a disclaimer: The data for this graph doesn't use the skeletons of buried women in the Maldives, water divining or anything like that, but it does represent the research of experts in the field.

Nerem, R. S., D. Chambers, C. Choe, and G. T. Mitchum. "Estimating Mean Sea Level Change from the TOPEX and Jason Altimeter Missions." Marine Geodesy 33, no. 1 supp 1 (2010): 435.

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« Last Edit: Aug 30^th, 2013 at 2:38pm by muso »

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longweekend58 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 45675 Gender:	Re: Sea Levels fall! What happened to ACC? Reply #79 - Aug 30^th, 2013 at 5:01pm you don't think that this 'explanation' is a tad convenient?
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rabbitoh07

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Re: Sea Levels fall! What happened to ACC?
Reply #80 - Aug 30^th, 2013 at 5:30pm

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 5:01pm:

you don't think that this 'explanation' is a tad convenient?

You mentioned that there has been 3mm of thermal expansion of the oceans.

What is causing this?

Aren't you one of those people that always repeats the silly claim by the Daily Mail columnist that global warming "stopped" in 1998?

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Sir lastnail Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 30088 Gender:	Re: Sea Levels fall! What happened to ACC? Reply #81 - Aug 30^th, 2013 at 6:53pm It's really quite simple. Human induced global warming must be false because there are so many with vested interests in polluting fossil fool companies.
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longweekend58

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Re: Sea Levels fall! What happened to ACC?
Reply #82 - Aug 30^th, 2013 at 7:38pm

rabbitoh07 wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 5:30pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 5:01pm:

you don't think that this 'explanation' is a tad convenient?

You mentioned that there has been 3mm of thermal expansion of the oceans.

What is causing this?

Aren't you one of those people that always repeats the silly claim by the Daily Mail columnist that global warming "stopped" in 1998?

so NOT able to answer the question how 10mm of reduction in sea levels can so conveniently be sheeted home to large rainfalls in Australia?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49015 At my desk.	Re: Sea Levels fall! What happened to ACC? Reply #83 - Aug 30^th, 2013 at 9:46pm longweekend58 wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 5:01pm: you don't think that this 'explanation' is a tad convenient? Is that the only criticism you have of it?
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rabbitoh07

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Re: Sea Levels fall! What happened to ACC?
Reply #84 - Aug 30^th, 2013 at 10:00pm

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 7:38pm:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 5:30pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 5:01pm:

you don't think that this 'explanation' is a tad convenient?

You mentioned that there has been 3mm of thermal expansion of the oceans.

What is causing this?

Aren't you one of those people that always repeats the silly claim by the Daily Mail columnist that global warming "stopped" in 1998?

so NOT able to answer the question how 10mm of reduction in sea levels can so conveniently be sheeted home to large rainfalls in Australia?

That has already ben answered multiple times in multiple threads. But I will answer it again for you because you seem a bit slow.

To reduce the global sea level by 7mm (not 10mm), would require about 2500km3 of precipitation to be retained on land rather than flowing straight back into the ocean.

Over 2010/11, some 10,000km3 rain fell on Australia - more than 4 times the amount required to reduce the global sea level by 7mm.

And this fell on Australia after a very severe period of drought over 2006-08 - much of it west of the Great Dividing rain, where the runoff flows to the interior and not the ocean.

You may find this "convenient" - but it is a pretty logical explanation for the 18 month period where sea levels dropped slightly.

Now - can you explain to us what is causing the 3mm of thermal expansion of the oceans you mentioned?

Aren't you one of those people that always repeats the silly claim by the Daily Mail columnist that global warming "stopped" in 1998?

If the earth "stopped warming 1998" - what is causing the thermal expansion.

Please answer the question.
You have run away from it 3 times now.
Why is that?

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Ajax Gold Member Offline CO2 has never controlled temperature on Earth Posts: 10975 Australia Gender:	Re: Sea Levels fall! What happened to ACC? Reply #85 - Aug 31^st, 2013 at 5:40pm muso wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 1:22pm: Ajax, what did you find when you googled "glacial isostasy" as I suggested ? And..........??? Your not going to blame CO2 for this are you.....???
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Ajax

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Re: Sea Levels fall! What happened to ACC?
Reply #86 - Aug 31^st, 2013 at 5:44pm

muso wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 2:29pm:

Ajax wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 1:24pm:

I know you're saying that 2500 cubic kilometres may have gone underground.

You didn't even get that bit right. How many times do I have to produce this graph?

As for your dodgy Swedish water diviner mate, his malarkey has been exposed:

http://www.carbonbrief.org/blog/2011/12/rising-incredulity-at-the-spectator%E2%8...

Quote:

These are striking claims that jar with the generally accepted scientific view that sea levels are rising due to climate change, and that this will affect low lying countries.

As a result, Mörner's work has been subjected to close examination by other scientists working on sea level change in the Maldives, including papers from Professor Colin Woodroffe at the University of Wollongong, Professor Philip Woodworth of the Proudman Oceanographic Laboratory, and a group of Australia scientists led by Dr. John Church at the Centre for Australian Weather and Climate Research.

They all criticise Mörner's approach and conclusions - Woodworth examined Mörner's claims from "meteorological and oceanographic perspectives" and found them "implausible". Woodroffe described Mörner's claims as "questionable" pointing out his methodologies do not stand up to scrutiny, and that his conclusions lack supporting evidence. The group of Australian scientists found "no evidence for the fall in sea level at the Maldives as postulated by Mörner."

Futhermore, Mörner's claims about satellite altimetry are in error - the technique shows that sea levels rose by around 3 mm per year between 1993 and 2006.

This brings us to INQUA, the International Union for Quaternary Reseach, a professional association of scientists from over 50 countries who study long-term climate change. Mörner claims to be articulating INQUA's collective view, but based on our inquiries with the organisation this appears to be a very bare misrepresentation.

To the extent that INQUA have a collective view on this issue, it seems diametrically opposed to that of Mörner's. Professor Roland Gehrels of the University of Plymouth is the current president of the INQUA commission on Coastal and Marine Processes - the part of INQUA that now considers sea level change.

He described Mörner as a "very good field scientist" and an "entertaining speaker". But, he says, it is misleading for Mörner to describe 'INQUA's research' as showing that sea levels are not rising.

This guy wrote the laws on tides is a major nutjob

The graph again: (for the sixth time) Roll Eyes

Now a disclaimer: The data for this graph doesn't use the skeletons of buried women in the Maldives, water divining or anything like that, but it does represent the research of experts in the field.

http://sealevel.colorado.edu/files/2013_rel5/sl_ns_global.png

Nerem, R. S., D. Chambers, C. Choe, and G. T. Mitchum. "Estimating Mean Sea Level Change from the TOPEX and Jason Altimeter Missions." Marine Geodesy 33, no. 1 supp 1 (2010): 435.

That graph is not worth the paper its printed on.

I told you satellites cannot measure sea levels down to that kind of accuracy.

see here.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1377845110

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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longweekend58

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Re: Sea Levels fall! What happened to ACC?
Reply #87 - Aug 31^st, 2013 at 7:49pm

rabbitoh07 wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 10:00pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 7:38pm:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 5:30pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 30^th, 2013 at 5:01pm:

you don't think that this 'explanation' is a tad convenient?

You mentioned that there has been 3mm of thermal expansion of the oceans.

What is causing this?

Aren't you one of those people that always repeats the silly claim by the Daily Mail columnist that global warming "stopped" in 1998?

so NOT able to answer the question how 10mm of reduction in sea levels can so conveniently be sheeted home to large rainfalls in Australia?

That has already ben answered multiple times in multiple threads. But I will answer it again for you because you seem a bit slow.

To reduce the global sea level by 7mm (not 10mm), would require about 2500km3 of precipitation to be retained on land rather than flowing straight back into the ocean.

Over 2010/11, some 10,000km3 rain fell on Australia - more than 4 times the amount required to reduce the global sea level by 7mm.

And this fell on Australia after a very severe period of drought over 2006-08 - much of it west of the Great Dividing rain, where the runoff flows to the interior and not the ocean.

You may find this "convenient" - but it is a pretty logical explanation for the 18 month period where sea levels dropped slightly.

Now - can you explain to us what is causing the 3mm of thermal expansion of the oceans you mentioned?

Aren't you one of those people that always repeats the silly claim by the Daily Mail columnist that global warming "stopped" in 1998?

If the earth "stopped warming 1998" - what is causing the thermal expansion.

Please answer the question.
You have run away from it 3 times now.
Why is that?

the argument remains terribly convenient given that this excuse has never before been used. Unless you want to postulate that Australias drought followed by heavy rain is a global first?

and it is 10mmm not 7. if the average rise is 3mm per year then a 7mm drop is a SHIFT in the average of 10mm.

basic maths,

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49015 At my desk.	Re: Sea Levels fall! What happened to ACC? Reply #88 - Aug 31^st, 2013 at 8:05pm Quote: given that this excuse has never before been used So because Longy only just stumbled across it, it never existed before?
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longweekend58

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Re: Sea Levels fall! What happened to ACC?
Reply #89 - Aug 31^st, 2013 at 11:23pm

freediver wrote on Aug 31^st, 2013 at 8:05pm:

Quote:

given that this excuse has never before been used

So because Longy only just stumbled across it, it never existed before?

then feel free to use that giant brain of yours and disprove me if you can. or if you would rather, find that evidence about the never-ending lifesycle of third parties.

or you could also do what you do increasingly more now and just ban members that ask you inconvenient questions.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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