Australian Politics Forum - US political correctness once again costing lives.

polite_gandalf

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Re: US political correctness once again costing lives.
Reply #45 - Sep 4^th, 2013 at 12:02pm

freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 10:32pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 7:05pm:

Soren, why is that when a Protestant kills a Catholic in Belfast, religion has nothing to do with it? When a Tibetan kills a Han Chinese in Tibet, religion has nothing to do with it? When a Buddhist in Japan kills a Christian in Korea, religion has nothing to do with it? Yet if a Muslim kills someone, it's always all about religion?

The reality is that people kill people for lots of reasons. More often than not they'll use religion as a convenient excuse. time you woke up to that. You use religion as a convenient excuse to pillory Muslims. You are a bigot. Roll Eyes

We recently had a few Australian Muslims on this forum telling us about all the things people should get stoned to death for. They did not hate atheists because an atheist stole their father's saddle while he was taking a dump. They held these barbaric beliefs because the Koran told them to. It is about religion.

Thats interesting - seeing as how stoning is not mentioned anywhere in the quran.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Soren

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Re: US political correctness once again costing lives.
Reply #46 - Sep 5^th, 2013 at 10:02pm

Karnal wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2013 at 4:12pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 10:32pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 7:05pm:

Soren, why is that when a Protestant kills a Catholic in Belfast, religion has nothing to do with it? When a Tibetan kills a Han Chinese in Tibet, religion has nothing to do with it? When a Buddhist in Japan kills a Christian in Korea, religion has nothing to do with it?

And who said any of this, Brain?

In any case, a Muslim shouting Allahu Akhbar when smiting - that's about religion, and the allahu akhbaring Muslim says so himself.

Or you don't believe him just because he is a brown man? Shame on you, Brain, shame. You treat Muslims as unreliable witnesses even to their own actions and motivations. You will not accept their testimony even when they are shouting it. Shame on you, you patronising, racist, bigoted person.

Allah uakbar, brother being. By your same reckoning, friend:

Palestine - not religious
Iraq (with exception of Allah uakbar Al Qaida) - not religious
Kashmir-Jammu - not religious
Afghanistan - not religious
Syria - not religious
Egypt - not religious
Various African civil wars - not religious
Arab Spring - not religious

You don't make sense, once again, PB.
Are you saying that there is no allau akhbaring going on as they kill each other in all the places you listed?

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Karnal

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Re: US political correctness once again costing lives.
Reply #47 - Sep 5^th, 2013 at 10:16pm

Soren wrote on Sep 5^th, 2013 at 10:02pm:

Karnal wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2013 at 4:12pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 10:32pm:

[quote author=Brian_Ross link=1377296416/38#38 date=1378112754]Soren, why is that when a Protestant kills a Catholic in Belfast, religion has nothing to do with it? When a Tibetan kills a Han Chinese in Tibet, religion has nothing to do with it? When a Buddhist in Japan kills a Christian in Korea, religion has nothing to do with it?

And who said any of this, Brain?

In any case, a Muslim shouting Allahu Akhbar when smiting - that's about religion, and the allahu akhbaring Muslim says so himself.

Or you don't believe him just because he is a brown man? Shame on you, Brain, shame. You treat Muslims as unreliable witnesses even to their own actions and motivations. You will not accept their testimony even when they are shouting it. Shame on you, you patronising, racist, bigoted person.

Allah uakbar, brother being. By your same reckoning, friend:

Palestine - not religious
Iraq (with exception of Allah uakbar Al Qaida) - not religious
Kashmir-Jammu - not religious
Afghanistan - not religious
Syria - not religious
Egypt - not religious
Various African civil wars - not religious
Arab Spring - not religious

People Allah Uakbared when Saddam’s statue was lowered in Bagdad. They Allah Uakbared when they hauled out Gaddafi’s body for the cameras in Sirte, when the Taliban were routed in Kabul, and Morsi was arrested in Cairo.

Which Allah do you mean, old chap? Gud the Father, Mother, or Uncle?

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Lord Herbert Gold Member Offline Posts: 34441 Gender:	Re: US political correctness once again costing lives. Reply #48 - Sep 6^th, 2013 at 7:36am polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 12:02pm: Thats interesting - seeing as how stoning is not mentioned anywhere in the quran. Being deceitful through omission does not add to your credibility in these discussions. A little more candor, please. Stoning
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freediver

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Re: US political correctness once again costing lives.
Reply #49 - Sep 6^th, 2013 at 8:33am

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 4^th, 2013 at 12:02pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 10:32pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 7:05pm:

Soren, why is that when a Protestant kills a Catholic in Belfast, religion has nothing to do with it? When a Tibetan kills a Han Chinese in Tibet, religion has nothing to do with it? When a Buddhist in Japan kills a Christian in Korea, religion has nothing to do with it? Yet if a Muslim kills someone, it's always all about religion?

The reality is that people kill people for lots of reasons. More often than not they'll use religion as a convenient excuse. time you woke up to that. You use religion as a convenient excuse to pillory Muslims. You are a bigot. Roll Eyes

We recently had a few Australian Muslims on this forum telling us about all the things people should get stoned to death for. They did not hate atheists because an atheist stole their father's saddle while he was taking a dump. They held these barbaric beliefs because the Koran told them to. It is about religion.

Thats interesting - seeing as how stoning is not mentioned anywhere in the quran.

Does the Koran tell people to follow Muhammed's example?

Didn't you just finish explaining the Islamic principle of interpreting any precedent set by Muhamed as broadly as possible?

From Herbert's link:

According to the Hanbali jurist Ibn Qudamah, "Muslim jurists are unanimous on the fact that stoning to death is a specified punishment for the married adulterer and adulteress. The punishment is recorded in number of traditions and the practice of Muhammad stands as an authentic source supporting it. This is the view held by all Companions, Successors and other Muslim scholars with the exception of Kharijites."[14]

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« Last Edit: Sep 6^th, 2013 at 8:39am by freediver »

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Soren

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Re: US political correctness once again costing lives.
Reply #50 - Sep 6^th, 2013 at 9:50am

Karnal wrote on Sep 5^th, 2013 at 10:16pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 5^th, 2013 at 10:02pm:

Karnal wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2013 at 4:12pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 10:32pm:

[quote author=Brian_Ross link=1377296416/38#38 date=1378112754]Soren, why is that when a Protestant kills a Catholic in Belfast, religion has nothing to do with it? When a Tibetan kills a Han Chinese in Tibet, religion has nothing to do with it? When a Buddhist in Japan kills a Christian in Korea, religion has nothing to do with it?

And who said any of this, Brain?

In any case, a Muslim shouting Allahu Akhbar when smiting - that's about religion, and the allahu akhbaring Muslim says so himself.

Or you don't believe him just because he is a brown man? Shame on you, Brain, shame. You treat Muslims as unreliable witnesses even to their own actions and motivations. You will not accept their testimony even when they are shouting it. Shame on you, you patronising, racist, bigoted person.

Allah uakbar, brother being. By your same reckoning, friend:

Palestine - not religious
Iraq (with exception of Allah uakbar Al Qaida) - not religious
Kashmir-Jammu - not religious
Afghanistan - not religious
Syria - not religious
Egypt - not religious
Various African civil wars - not religious
Arab Spring - not religious

People Allah Uakbared when Saddam’s statue was lowered in Bagdad. They Allah Uakbared when they hauled out Gaddafi’s body for the cameras in Sirte, when the Taliban were routed in Kabul, and Morsi was arrested in Cairo.

And Muslim sectarian violence duly ensued in every case.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: US political correctness once again costing lives.
Reply #51 - Sep 6^th, 2013 at 2:57pm

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2013 at 8:33am:

Does the Koran tell people to follow Muhammed's example?

Didn't you just finish explaining the Islamic principle of interpreting any precedent set by Muhamed as broadly as possible?

From Herbert's link:

According to the Hanbali jurist Ibn Qudamah, "Muslim jurists are unanimous on the fact that stoning to death is a specified punishment for the married adulterer and adulteress. The punishment is recorded in number of traditions and the practice of Muhammad stands as an authentic source supporting it. This is the view held by all Companions, Successors and other Muslim scholars with the exception of Kharijites."[14]

Nice attempt to wriggle out of your clearly stated claim that "A few Australian muslims" here support stoning "because the quran told them".

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: US political correctness once again costing lives.
Reply #52 - Sep 6^th, 2013 at 3:12pm

Quote:

author=gandalf li

Nice attempt to wriggle out of .....

The only one doing the ducking and weaving is you.

We're still waiting for a relevant answer from you in response to this :

Quote:

According to the Hanbali jurist Ibn Qudamah, "Muslim jurists are unanimous on the fact that stoning to death is a specified punishment for the married adulterer and adulteress. The punishment is recorded in number of traditions and the practice of Muhammad stands as an authentic source supporting it. This is the view held by all Companions, Successors and other Muslim scholars with the exception of Kharijites."[14]

Middle Easterners are historically famous for being tricky and devious.

Even the summary punishment of chopping off hands hasn't halted the tradition of stealing anything that isn't nailed down.

So! Here's a challenge for you. Just answer to the above without forked-tongue or prestidigitation. Cool

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: US political correctness once again costing lives. Reply #53 - Sep 6^th, 2013 at 4:00pm Herbert I'm well aware of what many muslims and muslim jurists believe from the hadeeth regarding stoning. Thats not the issue here. The issue is FD making up stories about what the quran tells muslims to believe.
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Karnal

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Re: US political correctness once again costing lives.
Reply #54 - Sep 6^th, 2013 at 4:12pm

Soren wrote on Sep 6^th, 2013 at 9:50am:

Karnal wrote on Sep 5^th, 2013 at 10:16pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 5^th, 2013 at 10:02pm:

Karnal wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2013 at 4:12pm:

Soren wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 10:32pm:

[quote author=Brian_Ross link=1377296416/38#38 date=1378112754]Soren, why is that when a Protestant kills a Catholic in Belfast, religion has nothing to do with it? When a Tibetan kills a Han Chinese in Tibet, religion has nothing to do with it? When a Buddhist in Japan kills a Christian in Korea, religion has nothing to do with it?

And who said any of this, Brain?

In any case, a Muslim shouting Allahu Akhbar when smiting - that's about religion, and the allahu akhbaring Muslim says so himself.

Or you don't believe him just because he is a brown man? Shame on you, Brain, shame. You treat Muslims as unreliable witnesses even to their own actions and motivations. You will not accept their testimony even when they are shouting it. Shame on you, you patronising, racist, bigoted person.

Allah uakbar, brother being. By your same reckoning, friend:

Palestine - not religious
Iraq (with exception of Allah uakbar Al Qaida) - not religious
Kashmir-Jammu - not religious
Afghanistan - not religious
Syria - not religious
Egypt - not religious
Various African civil wars - not religious
Arab Spring - not religious

People Allah Uakbared when Saddam’s statue was lowered in Bagdad. They Allah Uakbared when they hauled out Gaddafi’s body for the cameras in Sirte, when the Taliban were routed in Kabul, and Morsi was arrested in Cairo.

And Muslim sectarian violence duly ensued in every case.

Sectarian? I say, old chap, how can Allah Uakbar be sectarian? It is only one Gud, isn't it.

Always, absolutely, never ever.

Don't forget which side we're on, old boy.

We're on the side of Gud.

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Lord Herbert

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Re: US political correctness once again costing lives.
Reply #55 - Sep 6^th, 2013 at 5:10pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 6^th, 2013 at 4:00pm:

Herbert I'm well aware of what many muslims and muslim jurists believe from the hadeeth regarding stoning. Thats not the issue here. The issue is FD making up stories about what the quran tells muslims to believe.

You know very well that whether it is the Koran or the Hadiths, Islamic scholars and jurists throughout the world are in agreement that death-by-stoning is sanctioned in Islam.

Quote:

It is the Islamic consensus that Muslims use the hadith as a pattern to guide their lives and a model for their behaviour. They are an important source reference for understanding the context of many verses of the Qur'an and provide the explanation, interpretation, and the living example of Muhammad, required for teaching of the Qur'an.

The Hadiths are footnotes to the Koran, and therefore they carry just as much authority as the Koran itself.

Hadiths

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Soren

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Re: US political correctness once again costing lives.
Reply #56 - Sep 6^th, 2013 at 10:53pm

Karnal wrote on Sep 6^th, 2013 at 4:12pm:

Sectarian? I say, old chap, how can Allah Uakbar be sectarian? It is only one Gud, isn't it.

Always, absolutely, never ever.

Don't forget which side we're on, old boy.

We're on the side of Gud.

I have always know that you are a mindless, tendentious screamer. And you are staying in character very well. Have another banana, monkey.
Have three.

You are SOB with a slightly bigger vocabulary.

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Karnal

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Re: US political correctness once again costing lives.
Reply #57 - Sep 6^th, 2013 at 11:42pm

Soren wrote on Sep 6^th, 2013 at 10:53pm:

Karnal wrote on Sep 6^th, 2013 at 4:12pm:

Sectarian? I say, old chap, how can Allah Uakbar be sectarian? It is only one Gud, isn't it.

Always, absolutely, never ever.

Don't forget which side we're on, old boy.

We're on the side of Gud.

I have always know that you are a mindless, tendentious screamer. And you are staying in character very well. Have another banana, monkey.
Have three.

You are SOB with a slightly bigger vocabulary.

Come on, habibi, don’t be like that.

Have another sniff of amyl - have three. And make sure you use the anal deoderant I’ve given you.

You smell like pickled herring.

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freediver

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Re: US political correctness once again costing lives.
Reply #58 - Sep 8^th, 2013 at 9:50am

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 6^th, 2013 at 2:57pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 6^th, 2013 at 8:33am:

Does the Koran tell people to follow Muhammed's example?

Didn't you just finish explaining the Islamic principle of interpreting any precedent set by Muhamed as broadly as possible?

From Herbert's link:

According to the Hanbali jurist Ibn Qudamah, "Muslim jurists are unanimous on the fact that stoning to death is a specified punishment for the married adulterer and adulteress. The punishment is recorded in number of traditions and the practice of Muhammad stands as an authentic source supporting it. This is the view held by all Companions, Successors and other Muslim scholars with the exception of Kharijites."[14]

Nice attempt to wriggle out of your clearly stated claim that "A few Australian muslims" here support stoning "because the quran told them".

So what are you trying to say Gandalf? That you agree orthodox Islam proscribes stoning people to death, but you disagree on the source?

Where are these "opposite but non-contradictory" principles from that you use to interpret the precedents set by Muhammed? The Koran? Or did you just make them up?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: US political correctness once again costing lives. Reply #59 - Sep 8^th, 2013 at 5:44pm freediver wrote on Sep 8^th, 2013 at 9:50am: So what are you trying to say Gandalf? Still a little unclear FD? Let me spell out as simply as I can... You. make. sh!t. up. about. what. the. quran. tells. muslims. to. do. Suggest you read it real slow, to have the best chance of this sinking in.
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged