Australian Politics Forum - Catalyst: Taking Our Temperature

muso

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Re: Catalyst: Taking Our Temperature
Reply #30 - Aug 25^th, 2013 at 11:05am

I'll check Rabbitoh's figure. He said around 10,000km3 of rain fell over the two years.

The official figures say 1.409 metres over the two seasons.

So if we multiply 1.409/1000 by the surface area of Australia, we should get the result in cubic kilometres. Right?

So that's 7,692,024 square kilometres x 1.409/1000

That gives an answer of 10,838

Pretty close.

You are allowed to be wrong. You actually admitted you were wrong on another thread on another matter (and I was impressed by your honesty), so I hope you'll do the same thing here.

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Ajax

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Re: Catalyst: Taking Our Temperature
Reply #31 - Aug 25^th, 2013 at 11:12am

rabbitoh07 wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 10:54am:

Ajax wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 10:49am:

[

And given that the GAB has a capacity of 65,000km3, and the amount of rain that fell over in Australia in those 2 years was about 10,000km3 - the idea that some 2500km3 of that water may have not been returned to the oceans over that 2 years seems entirely plausible

.

Pull the other one dude....????

It is estimated that more than 65 million gigalitres (GL) of water are stored in the GAB
http://www.environment.gov.au/water/publications/watermatters/water-matters-may-...

Rainfall averaged over Australia during 2011 was 705 mm, very similar to 2010 (703 mm).
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/by%20Subject/1301.0~2012~Main%20F...

Ajax wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 10:49am:

Back to the drawing board for you my friend....????

Why?

Which values I have used to you consider to be incorrect?

Can you tell me?
Or are you just blindly denying every thing that does not fit your belief system?

There is more than 65000 kilometres cube of water stored in GAB.

Did this amount double during the floods before being sucked underground.....???????

Somehow I don't think so.

Like I said back to the drawing board for you my friend....!!!

It is estimated that more than 65 million gigalitres (GL) of water are stored in the GAB, at pressures of up to 1,300 kilopascals. The aquifers are recharged by infiltration of rainfall and leakage from streams into outcropping sandstone, mainly on the eastern margins of the Basin along the Great Dividing Range, and also along the western and south-western margins.

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muso

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Re: Catalyst: Taking Our Temperature
Reply #32 - Aug 25^th, 2013 at 11:21am

The exact volume of water in the Great Artesian Basin is irrelevant and it doesn't even form part of Rabbitoh's argument. It's not just the GAB that is concerned. There are plenty of aquifers perched above the GAB that have refilled since the floods.

This country was parched before the Wet Season of 2010, unlike the monsoon areas of Asia.

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rabbitoh07

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Re: Catalyst: Taking Our Temperature
Reply #33 - Aug 25^th, 2013 at 11:24am

Ajax wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 11:12am:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 10:54am:

Ajax wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 10:49am:

[

And given that the GAB has a capacity of 65,000km3, and the amount of rain that fell over in Australia in those 2 years was about 10,000km3 - the idea that some 2500km3 of that water may have not been returned to the oceans over that 2 years seems entirely plausible

.

Pull the other one dude....????

It is estimated that more than 65 million gigalitres (GL) of water are stored in the GAB
http://www.environment.gov.au/water/publications/watermatters/water-matters-may-...

Rainfall averaged over Australia during 2011 was 705 mm, very similar to 2010 (703 mm).
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/by%20Subject/1301.0~2012~Main%20F...

Ajax wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 10:49am:

Back to the drawing board for you my friend....????

Why?

Which values I have used to you consider to be incorrect?

Can you tell me?
Or are you just blindly denying every thing that does not fit your belief system?

There is more than 65000 kilometres cube of water stored in GAB.

Did this amount double during the floods before being sucked underground.....???????

Somehow I don't think so.

Like I said back to the drawing board for you my friend....!!!

It is estimated that more than 65 million gigalitres (GL) of water are stored in the GAB, at pressures of up to 1,300 kilopascals. The aquifers are recharged by infiltration of rainfall and leakage from streams into outcropping sandstone, mainly on the eastern margins of the Basin along the Great Dividing Range, and also along the western and south-western margins.

You are not making any sense.

We know that some 10,000km3 of rain fell on Aus over 2010-11

If only a quarter of this remained on land - it is enough to drop the ocean level by 7mm

And 2500km3 is not much when compared to the amount of groundwater storage available in Aus. As you have been shown - it equates to only 4% of the potential capacity of the GAB. And recall that in 2010-11, Aus groundwater reserves would have been very much depleted after the long El Nino drought of 2006-08

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Ajax

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Re: Catalyst: Taking Our Temperature
Reply #34 - Aug 25^th, 2013 at 12:02pm

muso wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 11:05am:

I'll check Rabbitoh's figure. He said around 10,000km3 of rain fell over the two years.

The official figures say 1.409 metres over the two seasons.

So if we multiply 1.409/1000 by the surface area of Australia, we should get the result in cubic kilometres. Right?

So that's 7,692,024 square kilometres x 1.409/1000

That gives an answer of 10,838

Pretty close.

You are allowed to be wrong. You actually admitted you were wrong on another thread on another matter (and I was impressed by your honesty), so I hope you'll do the same thing here.

That is bullsh!t you cannot use the whole area of Australia in your calculations.

The rainfall didn't fall over the whole of Australia at that rate, the rain fell within certain areas.

Otherwise we would have been flushed into the sea.

I will investigate and get back to you.

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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Chimp_Logic

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Re: Catalyst: Taking Our Temperature
Reply #35 - Aug 25^th, 2013 at 12:03pm

muso wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 10:41am:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 9:28am:

Excellent post muso!

I wonder if you can apply the same basic logic and intellectual rigour to the dangers of nuclear accident fallout and the health risks associated with internal exposure to radionuclidic particles?

It would be riveting reading to see how you insert the schism of applicability to both branches of science which are well supported by theory and observation/experiment.

Thanks Chimp. Let's keep this thread on topic. If you want to start a discussion on the effects of Fukushima, please start a new thread.

That's is true muso - I am being totally off topic in my remarks

But for a person to be consistent, when they claim to adhere to basic scientific principles and adopt the scientific method, they have to be just that - CONSISTENT, and not abandon these basic principles when it suits their personal bias or subjective views.

I am sure you would agree with that simple axiom.

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rabbitoh07

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Re: Catalyst: Taking Our Temperature
Reply #36 - Aug 25^th, 2013 at 12:26pm

Ajax wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 12:02pm:

muso wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 11:05am:

I'll check Rabbitoh's figure. He said around 10,000km3 of rain fell over the two years.

The official figures say 1.409 metres over the two seasons.

So if we multiply 1.409/1000 by the surface area of Australia, we should get the result in cubic kilometres. Right?

So that's 7,692,024 square kilometres x 1.409/1000

That gives an answer of 10,838

Pretty close.

You are allowed to be wrong. You actually admitted you were wrong on another thread on another matter (and I was impressed by your honesty), so I hope you'll do the same thing here.

That is bullsh!t you cannot use the whole area of Australia in your calculations.

The rainfall didn't fall over the whole of Australia at that rate, the rain fell within certain areas.

Otherwise we would have been flushed into the sea.

I will investigate and get back to you.

Average annual rainfall varies considerably across Australia. Large areas of the country have average annual rainfalls of 600–1,500 millimetres (mm), a range similar to most European and North American averages. However, about half of the continent experiences an average annual rainfall of less than 300 mm.

Rainfall averaged over Australia during 2011 was 705 mm, very similar to 2010 (703 mm).

http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/by%20Subject/1301.0~2012~Main%20F...

And where did the rain fall in 2010-11?

Pretty much everywhere execpt SW WA

http://www.environment.gov.au/soe/2011/report/atmosphere/2-1-current-state-clima...

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Ajax

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Re: Catalyst: Taking Our Temperature
Reply #37 - Aug 25^th, 2013 at 12:42pm

Typical scare mongers as all AGW zealots are.

Average rainfall 2010 = 703mm

Average rainfall 2011 = 708mm

Australia's land area = 7,692,024 km2

Amount of water that fell on Australia in 2010

5,497,490 m3 (cubic metres)

Amount of water that fell on Australia in 2011

5,445,950 m3 (cubic metres)

Total amount of water that fell on Australia in 2010 & 2011

10,943,440m3 (cubic metres)

That's 0.010943440 km3 (cubic kilometres)

Seriously folks how can we take these scare mongers seriously.

Just think about it guys a column with a base of 10,000 klm2 and of height 10,000klm would flush us of the continent of Australia.

Rabbit & muso its back to the drawing board for both of you...???!!!!!

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Catalyst: Taking Our Temperature Reply #38 - Aug 25^th, 2013 at 1:09pm Ajax wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 12:42pm: Amount of water that fell on Australia in 2010 5,497,490 m3 (cubic metres) I'm tempted to laugh at you, but I won't. 5500 Megalitres fell on Australia ? Check your calculations Ajax. You're out by a factor of 1 million.
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Ajax

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Re: Catalyst: Taking Our Temperature
Reply #39 - Aug 25^th, 2013 at 1:15pm

muso wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 1:09pm:

Ajax wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 12:42pm:

Amount of water that fell on Australia in 2010

5,497,490 m3 (cubic metres)

I'm tempted to laugh at you, but I won't. 5500 Megalitres fell on Australia ?

Check your calculations Ajax.

No sir, you check your ridiculous sums please...???

Here i'll give you a heads up.

Catchment area x average rainfall = total amount of water.

Don't get your units mixed up now...!!???... Roll Eyes

Quote:

Ajax wrote:

Amount of water that fell on Australia in 2010

5,497,490 m3 (cubic metres)

Amount of water that fell on Australia in 2011

5,445,950 m3 (cubic metres)

Total amount of water that fell on Australia in 2010 & 2011

10,943,440m3 (cubic metres)

That's 0.010943440 km3 (cubic kilometres)

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« Last Edit: Aug 25^th, 2013 at 1:24pm by Ajax »

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Catalyst: Taking Our Temperature Reply #40 - Aug 25^th, 2013 at 1:27pm Let's do a quick check. If an area of 1 square kilometres is 1 kilometre deep then it's 1 cubic kilometres. Agree? Australia's land area = 7,692,024 km2 Let's say it was 1 metre of rainfall to make it simple. 1 metre divided by 1000 =0.001 kilometres- right? What's 7,692,024 times 0.001 ?
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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Catalyst: Taking Our Temperature Reply #41 - Aug 25^th, 2013 at 2:11pm Look, to put it into perspective you're saying that in a year that broke all records, 5,500,000 cubic metres (5500 megalitres) was the total rainfall received over the whole of Australia. Check the data for Warragamba Dam, which should be familiar to you. Last week, its capacity dropped by about 5000 Megalitres.
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rabbitoh07

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Re: Catalyst: Taking Our Temperature
Reply #42 - Aug 25^th, 2013 at 7:05pm

Ajax wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 12:42pm:

Typical scare mongers as all AGW zealots are.

Average rainfall 2010 = 703mm

Average rainfall 2011 = 708mm

Australia's land area = 7,692,024 km2

Amount of water that fell on Australia in 2010

5,497,490 m3 (cubic metres)

Average rainfall 2010 = 703mm
divide by 1000 = 0.703 m
divide by 1000 again = 0.000703 km

0.000703 km x 7,692,024 km2
= 5407 km3

1km3 = 1,000,000,000 m3

so 5407km3
= 5,407,000,000,000 m3

Ajax wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 12:42pm:

Amount of water that fell on Australia in 2011

5,445,950 m3 (cubic metres)

You are out by a factor of a million

Remember - 1km3 DOES NOT = 1,000 m3

1km3 = 1,000,000,000 m3

This seems to be where you are going wrong

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Ajax

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Re: Catalyst: Taking Our Temperature
Reply #43 - Aug 25^th, 2013 at 10:30pm

Ok Ok I got egg on my face by 1000000.

You guys are correct in a way rabbit & muso.

Where once again you fail is that the 10000km2 of rainfall does not all get absorbed by the terrain.

If you look at estimates in the BOS they say that 90% of rainfall evaporates, 2% goes into the ground and the rest 8% is runoff.

So even though I was wrong by a million it still puts your arguement into fairy land thinking that the ground will absorb 10000km2 volume of water.

Sounds like a desperate attempt to save the IPCC embarrassment.

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rabbitoh07

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Re: Catalyst: Taking Our Temperature
Reply #44 - Aug 26^th, 2013 at 12:10am

Ajax wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 10:30pm:

Ok Ok I got egg on my face by 1000000.

You guys are correct in a way rabbit & muso.

Where once again you fail is that the 10000km2 of rainfall does not all get absorbed by the terrain.

If you look at estimates in the BOS they say that 90% of rainfall evaporates, 2% goes into the ground and the rest 8% is runoff.

So even though I was wrong by a million it still puts your arguement into fairy land thinking that the ground will absorb 10000km2 volume of water.

Sounds like a desperate attempt to save the IPCC embarrassment.

Nobody has said that the ground will absorb 10000km2 volume of water. Or even 10000km3 volume of water. (m2 is not volume)

Back to the drawing board sonny.

And would you like to show us a reference that says "90% of rainfall evaporates, 2% goes into the ground and the rest 8% is runoff."? Or did you just make that up?

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