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Catalyst: Taking Our Temperature (Read 12251 times)
Ajax
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Re: Catalyst: Taking Our Temperature
Reply #60 - Aug 30th, 2013 at 11:10am
 
muso wrote on Aug 29th, 2013 at 7:44pm:
Ajax wrote on Aug 29th, 2013 at 5:20pm:
Hey muso when you put your faith in computer models you always stand the chance that when real world data is viewd and compared to the models.


These are measurements Ajax. Measurements. The papers you quoted used models to determine the effects of changing continental mass on Global Sea Level.

Jason1 and 2 and Topex have satellite altimeters. If you have a boat,  you might be familiar with sonar instruments. Satellite altimeters use microwave pulses instead of sound. It's as close to an absolute measurement as you can get.


Quote:
Not only that but other satellites tell a different story...!!


OTHER satellites ?  Grin
What other satellites?  Do these satellites float in the ocean perchance? Grin

Do you have personal satellites that nobody else knows about?

This I've got to hear. 

You do know that you can drown if you wade too far into the ocean? (out of your depth)


Muso that's exactly what i have come to expect from your mob, they take one paper usually the one that presents the worst case and showcase it to the world.

A fair and balanced view...........sure take that paper and flash it around but also inform the audience that there are other papers that show different outcomes.

There are also other scientists that present quite a different picture than the one your presenting.

Its like Al Gore he said that the CO2 & temperature charts fit like a hand in a glove.

But he didn't tell the audience that CO2 lags temperature by about 800 years.

Or did he tell the audience that millions of years ago we have had 20 times the amount of CO2 we have today in our atmosphere.

Things like that.....you know why doesn't he give us the whole mural.....?????

Instead he gives us hand picked individual snippets while keeping the rest concealed.

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« Last Edit: Aug 30th, 2013 at 11:37am by Ajax »  

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
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Re: Catalyst: Taking Our Temperature
Reply #61 - Aug 30th, 2013 at 1:41pm
 
Ajax wrote on Aug 29th, 2013 at 6:04pm:
... when your projections don't match real world observations........................???
...

The vast majority of the best qualified disagree with you, or so it seems. Perhaps you're misinterpreting something.
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muso
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Re: Catalyst: Taking Our Temperature
Reply #62 - Aug 30th, 2013 at 2:25pm
 
Ajax wrote on Aug 29th, 2013 at 6:04pm:
Not only that but other satellites tell a different story...!!



Your reply:

Quote:
Muso that's exactly what i have come to expect from your mob, they take one paper usually the one that presents the worst case and showcase it to the world.

A fair and balanced view...........sure take that paper and flash it around but also inform the audience that there are other papers that show different outcomes.

There are also other scientists that present quite a different picture than the one your presenting.


Paraphrased, what Ajax meant to say: "Sorry I lied. There are no other satellites, just a Swedish ex Geologist turned water diviner who wrote a paper co-authored by a furniture salesman.  One lonesome crank. "

That's your mate in the video. He talks highly of INQUA, but they are not too keen on him.
Quote:
Dr. Mörner currently has no formal position in INQUA, and I am distressed that he continues to represent himself in his former capacity. Further, INQUA, which is an umbrella organization for hundreds of researchers knowledgeable about past climate, does not subscribe to Mörner's position on climate change. Nearly all of these researchers agree that humans are modifying Earth's climate, a position diametrically opposed to Dr. Mörner's point of view
(John J. Clague, the then President of INQUA)

Here is further information on Mörner's "paper":

http://www.carbonbrief.org/blog/2011/12/rising-incredulity-at-the-spectator%E2%8...

Quote:
striking claims that jar with the generally accepted scientific view that sea levels are rising due to climate change, and that this will affect low lying countries.

As a result, Mörner's work has been subjected to close examination by other scientists working on sea level change in the Maldives, including papers from Professor Colin Woodroffe at the University of Wollongong, Professor Philip Woodworth of the Proudman Oceanographic Laboratory, and a group of Australia scientists led by Dr. John Church at the Centre for Australian Weather and Climate Research.

They all criticise Mörner's approach and conclusions - Woodworth examined Mörner's claims from "meteorological and oceanographic perspectives" and found them "implausible". Woodroffe described Mörner's claims as "questionable" pointing out his methodologies do not stand up to scrutiny, and that his conclusions lack supporting evidence. The group of Australian scientists found "no evidence for the fall in sea level at the Maldives as postulated by Mörner."

Futhermore, Mörner's claims about satellite altimetry are in error - the technique shows that sea levels rose by around 3 mm per year between 1993 and 2006.
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Ajax
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Re: Catalyst: Taking Our Temperature
Reply #63 - Aug 30th, 2013 at 2:28pm
 
muso wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 2:25pm:
Ajax wrote on Aug 29th, 2013 at 6:04pm:
Not only that but other satellites tell a different story...!!



Your reply:

Quote:
Muso that's exactly what i have come to expect from your mob, they take one paper usually the one that presents the worst case and showcase it to the world.

A fair and balanced view...........sure take that paper and flash it around but also inform the audience that there are other papers that show different outcomes.

There are also other scientists that present quite a different picture than the one your presenting.


Paraphrased, what Ajax meant to say: "Sorry I lied. There are no other satellites, just a Swedish ex Geologist turned water diviner who wrote a paper co-authored by a furniture salesman.  One lonesome crank. "

That's your mate in the video. He talks highly of INQUA, but they are not too keen on him.
Quote:
Dr. Mörner currently has no formal position in INQUA, and I am distressed that he continues to represent himself in his former capacity. Further, INQUA, which is an umbrella organization for hundreds of researchers knowledgeable about past climate, does not subscribe to Mörner's position on climate change. Nearly all of these researchers agree that humans are modifying Earth's climate, a position diametrically opposed to Dr. Mörner's point of view
(John J. Clague, the then President of INQUA)

Here is further information on Mörner's "paper":

http://www.carbonbrief.org/blog/2011/12/rising-incredulity-at-the-spectator%E2%8...

Quote:
striking claims that jar with the generally accepted scientific view that sea levels are rising due to climate change, and that this will affect low lying countries.

As a result, Mörner's work has been subjected to close examination by other scientists working on sea level change in the Maldives, including papers from Professor Colin Woodroffe at the University of Wollongong, Professor Philip Woodworth of the Proudman Oceanographic Laboratory, and a group of Australia scientists led by Dr. John Church at the Centre for Australian Weather and Climate Research.

They all criticise Mörner's approach and conclusions - Woodworth examined Mörner's claims from "meteorological and oceanographic perspectives" and found them "implausible". Woodroffe described Mörner's claims as "questionable" pointing out his methodologies do not stand up to scrutiny, and that his conclusions lack supporting evidence. The group of Australian scientists found "no evidence for the fall in sea level at the Maldives as postulated by Mörner."

Futhermore, Mörner's claims about satellite altimetry are in error - the technique shows that sea levels rose by around 3 mm per year between 1993 and 2006.


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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
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Re: Catalyst: Taking Our Temperature
Reply #64 - Aug 30th, 2013 at 3:28pm
 
Yes, that video shows the Swedish water diviner who calculates sea level changes by examining buried women in the Maldives.

What's your point?
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Ajax
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Re: Catalyst: Taking Our Temperature
Reply #65 - Aug 30th, 2013 at 7:37pm
 
muso wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 3:28pm:
Yes, that video shows the Swedish water diviner who calculates sea level changes by examining buried women in the Maldives.

What's your point?


you should watch it.
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Re: Catalyst: Taking Our Temperature
Reply #66 - Aug 30th, 2013 at 9:56pm
 
I did. He has lost the plot. In another few years, I guess he'll lose other bodily functions. Quite sad really.
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Ajax
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Re: Catalyst: Taking Our Temperature
Reply #67 - Aug 31st, 2013 at 9:28am
 
muso wrote on Aug 30th, 2013 at 9:56pm:
I did. He has lost the plot. In another few years, I guess he'll lose other bodily functions. Quite sad really.


Why don't you criticize his work rather than character assassination.......??????/

You're a really sad lot...... Sad Sad Sad
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Re: Catalyst: Taking Our Temperature
Reply #68 - Aug 31st, 2013 at 9:25pm
 
I did previously. You didn't read it obviously.
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Ajax
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Re: Catalyst: Taking Our Temperature
Reply #69 - Sep 1st, 2013 at 10:41am
 
muso wrote on Aug 31st, 2013 at 9:25pm:
I did previously. You didn't read it obviously.


muso Dr. Nils Axel Morner is a scientist who has spent the better part of his life measuring tides through tide gauges all around the world.

I think he actually wrote some laws on tides.

The raw satellite data used to measure sea levels is taken and adjusted for accuracy or whatever else they do, in other words the data is tampered with

Dr. Nils Axel Morner is on the ground taking measurements that's real world measurements.

How can you try to discredit him is beyond me but there you go.
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Re: Catalyst: Taking Our Temperature
Reply #70 - Sep 1st, 2013 at 9:18pm
 
Ajax wrote on Sep 1st, 2013 at 10:41am:
...
Dr. Nils Axel Morner is on the ground taking measurements that's real world measurements.
...
The bloke's barely a blip anywhere but the denyosphere. I found this on DeSmogBlog Quote:
Nils-Axel Mörner
Credentials

    Ph.D., Geology, (1969). [1], [2]

Background

Mörner is a retired professor from the University of Stockholm where he was the head of the Paleogeophysics and Geodynamics department from 1991 to 2005. [1], [3]

Mörner claims to be an expert in "dowsing," the practice of finding water, metals, gemstones etc. through the use of a Y-shaped twig.

Mörner's attempt to prove his dowsing abilities is chronicled by James Randi, [4] the well-known myth buster, who has offered the longstanding One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge.
So, retired (not taking measurements, "real world" or whatever other world he inhabits). More than a bit of a kook, by the sound of it. Seems to be a favourite of the Heartland Institute.
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Re: Catalyst: Taking Our Temperature
Reply #71 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 11:03am
 
For a start, he talks about glacial isostasy and eustasy as if this was somehow important for Global sea level changes. These are effects that are localised to the Northern and Southern regions and those areas that were laden with ice during the last glaciation.

...

So those regions with isostatic uplift will experience little or no relative sea level rise.

The other problem is that he has a lot of rhetoric, but  no data. Even his paper on the Maldives was based on anecdotal evidence.  Every other oceanographer, and even INQUA of whom he said "They are the real experts" on the video, they all say otherwise.

The question is, do you trust a retired associate Geology professor 
with no data, or would you trust the researchers who are active in the field and have data?

Maybe you should follow Morner's advice and ask the real experts in the field, that is INQUA, not the University of Colorado Sea Level Unit (what would they know?).

Did you read in a previous post what INQUA said about him?
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« Last Edit: Sep 4th, 2013 at 8:27am by muso »  

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Ajax
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Re: Catalyst: Taking Our Temperature
Reply #72 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 1:45pm
 
He has studied sea levels all his life taking measurements all over the world.

No matter how you try to discredit him, unless you come up with something concrete your still p!ssing against the wind.

Al least he's not like Michael Mann leaving out data that doesn't suit him.

Care to tell me why Mann left out the medieval warm period in his hockey shhhtick.......???

Or why he manipulated the day or used a program that gives you a hockey stick no matter what.

And what about climategate FFS.

I would have thought after that scandal you boys would have lost your enthusiasm over all those lies.
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Re: Catalyst: Taking Our Temperature
Reply #73 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 8:35pm
 
Ajax wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 1:45pm:
He has studied sea levels all his life taking measurements all over the world.


Give me a link to some of his actual data.
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Ajax
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Re: Catalyst: Taking Our Temperature
Reply #74 - Sep 3rd, 2013 at 5:50pm
 
muso wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 8:35pm:
Ajax wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 1:45pm:
He has studied sea levels all his life taking measurements all over the world.


Give me a link to some of his actual data. 



Sea level is not rising
Professor Nils-Axel Mörner
http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/blog_watch/sea_level_is_not_rising.html

http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/images/stories/papers/reprint/sea_level_not_ri...
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