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Politics, Economics & New Realities! (Read 32172 times)
perceptions_now
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Politics, Economics & New Realities!
Aug 24th, 2013 at 9:11pm
 
Notwithstanding the inevitable, usual SPIN, put up by Politicians of all sorts, we are now facing a once in history set of Economic Drivers, which are combining to slowly strangle Local & Global Economics.

That said, our local Politicians, from both major Party's, are pretending that all is "normal" and that they can & will fix all our Economic ills, by using their "normal" Economic fixes.

Well, as is a well known fact, POLITICIANS (ALL OF THEM) TELL PORKIES! The fact is that none of the Politicians can or will "fix what is afflicting the Economy"!

I hear the usual SPIN statements -
1) We can/will fix the Economy, by getting the Budget back into Surplus (Austrian Economics).
2)  We can/will fix the Economy, by Stimulating Economic Growth (Keynesian Economics).

These "fixes", in general terms, are tried & tested standard Economics basics AND AT THE APPROPRIATE TIME IN THE ECONOMIC CYCLE THEY HAVE BEEN USED & THEY HAVE USUALLY BEEN SUCCESSFUL.

However, on this occasion, as I have suggested, we have NEW ECONOMIC REALITIES, in that the Economic Drivers that have backed Economic Growth for over 200 years is now leveling off, before going into actual Decline.

Without the Economic back-ups, neither the Austrian, nor the Keynesian basics Economics will restore our Local or the Global Economics to the past Status Quo's, as GROWTH IN DEMAND IS NOW LEVELING AND THEN IT WILL ACTUALLY SHRINK!!!

Why would I say such a thing?
Is it possible?
Well, regrettably YES & here's why -

During the historically recent period of global industrialization, the level of human population has been closely related to the amount of energy we have used.
...

This means Economic Growth has been underpinned be Population Growth, which in turn was underpinned by Growth in Energy Supply at good Prices.

However, putting the Energy Sources in Perspective, we are now faced with a Decline in Energy sources & a rising Cost of Energy, which means that Population Growth would start to level off, then Decline, even if there was no other negative factors driving Population levels down, which there is!

... 


As is well known, the Great Depression was finally ended by 2 major factors -
1) The massive Economic stimulus, commonly called WW2.
2) The massive Economic stimulus, commonly called the Baby Boomers generation.

These 2 massive stimuli's combined, not only to end the Great Depression, but they provided a boost that would back up Consumer Demand & therefore the Global Economy, for some 60 years!

The exceptional period that became the Baby Boomer BOOM is now ending and the combined effects of the Decline of Energy Supply & Rising Energy Prices would normally have spelled a massive problem for the Global Economy, all by itself, BUT when combined with the effects from the Retirement, then death of the largest generation in human history (the Baby Boomers), in a steadily growing demise over the next 20-30 years, the Economic effects will be truly massive!

In concert with the Decline of Energy & the Demise of the Baby Boomers, it is likely that the world population may still rise slightly to about 7.5 billion, before starting an inexorable decline to around 2 billion by 2100.
...

Whether this scenario plays out in full or only partially, IT IS STILL OBVIOUS THAT THE GOOD OLD DAYS OF DEMAND GROWTH IS NOW ABSOLUTELY DEAD!

Like it or not, this is our likely NEW ECONOMIC REALITY, which means that THE INCREASING DEMAND ECONOMY IS NOW SLOWLY DYING, AS IS THE GROWTH ECONOMY!

So, we either start looking at things Economic thru something other than rose colored glasses & we start to deal in Reality or we will disappear up our own ass, as will humanity as a whole!

The only logical conclusion is that no matter what any Politician may tell you, the "good old days" will not be returned & we either everyone starts living with these new realities OR the final result will be even worse than these scenario's may appear!

Some of this post is attributable to -
http://www.paulchefurka.ca/WEAP/WEAP.html
   
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perceptions_now
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Re: Politics, Economics & New Realities!
Reply #1 - Aug 25th, 2013 at 11:06am
 
As usual, those who purport to be Experts (yes - Maqqa & Longy) on Economics, are shown by their silence, to simply be people who formerly thought they were an Economics Exspurts, but who now understand that they are just a drips under pressure!

     
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cods
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Re: Politics, Economics & New Realities!
Reply #2 - Aug 25th, 2013 at 11:16am
 
and havent we all been waiting for you to tell us all that? Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

I am sure you know exactly what we poor peasants can do about it?
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cods
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Re: Politics, Economics & New Realities!
Reply #3 - Aug 25th, 2013 at 11:21am
 
perceptions_now wrote on Aug 25th, 2013 at 11:06am:
As usual, those who purport to be Experts (yes - Maqqa & Longy) on Economics, are shown by their silence, to simply be people who formerly thought they were an Economics Exspurts, but who now understand that they are just a drips under pressure!

     




I take it you are the only expurt on economics on here then?????and nobody else is allowed an opinion..

bit of a ticket you have on yourself percy

why are you not working in treasury?? instead of just leaving the few on here to be amazed at your accuracy you are wasted surely?
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Maqqa
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Re: Politics, Economics & New Realities!
Reply #4 - Aug 25th, 2013 at 11:30am
 
cods wrote on Aug 25th, 2013 at 11:21am:
perceptions_now wrote on Aug 25th, 2013 at 11:06am:
As usual, those who purport to be Experts (yes - Maqqa & Longy) on Economics, are shown by their silence, to simply be people who formerly thought they were an Economics Exspurts, but who now understand that they are just a drips under pressure!

     




I take it you are the only expurt on economics on here then?????and nobody else is allowed an opinion..

bit of a ticket you have on yourself percy

why are you not working in treasury?? instead of just leaving the few on here to be amazed at your accuracy you are wasted surely?


you see cods.....

PN cuts and copy from Google searches and claims to be the expert

A truly knowledgeable person presents a discussion of concepts, it's application to reality and sprinkles facts into the discussion to back their assertions

PN can't do that

When PN tries - PN gets all muddled up between theory and reality. Muddle up between idealist textbook written decades in the past and the modern reality

The difference here between what longie and I present is far more better than what PN tries to present

This difference is comparable to the difference between a cook and a chef

PN can't even boil water

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number
 
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cods
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Re: Politics, Economics & New Realities!
Reply #5 - Aug 25th, 2013 at 11:42am
 
Maqqa wrote on Aug 25th, 2013 at 11:30am:
cods wrote on Aug 25th, 2013 at 11:21am:
perceptions_now wrote on Aug 25th, 2013 at 11:06am:
As usual, those who purport to be Experts (yes - Maqqa & Longy) on Economics, are shown by their silence, to simply be people who formerly thought they were an Economics Exspurts, but who now understand that they are just a drips under pressure!

     




I take it you are the only expurt on economics on here then?????and nobody else is allowed an opinion..

bit of a ticket you have on yourself percy

why are you not working in treasury?? instead of just leaving the few on here to be amazed at your accuracy you are wasted surely?


you see cods.....

PN cuts and copy from Google searches and claims to be the expert

A truly knowledgeable person presents a discussion of concepts, it's application to reality and sprinkles facts into the discussion to back their assertions

PN can't do that

When PN tries - PN gets all muddled up between theory and reality. Muddle up between idealist textbook written decades in the past and the modern reality

The difference here between what longie and I present is far more better than what PN tries to present

This difference is comparable to the difference between a cook and a chef

PN can't even boil water






well I wouldnt know or understand any of it.. to be honest with you but to talk as if you have inside knowledge of what goes on in Govts is a bit of a stretch...

to each his own.. when it comes to finance I look at what I have to do and plan for which is the same as most responsible people   and then look at what the govt does and all I can do is shake my head... its wrong what they do...I dont expect all budgets to balance but I dont want to see massive blow outs either.. that tells me someone has got it all wrong....

put up all that stuff perc does and its blinding me with science... but dont tell me I am an idiot because I see things differently....I know he didnt name me.. because I am a dope with economics... but he does seem to dare anyone to disagree with him....maybe he should offer his services to Greece see where they are up for another bail out...the 3rd.. Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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RightSadFred
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Re: Politics, Economics & New Realities!
Reply #6 - Aug 25th, 2013 at 11:45am
 
Maqqa

At work I call those types Power Point Engineers, I meet up with many sales people and that is mostly what you get. The smarter ones seem to show up with nothing, not even a notebook. They take you out to lunch and don't pretend to understand what they are selling. They write down all the logistics required and all the questions I ask then get back to me.

Last year I was negotiating about $200k of work required and one guy did precisely such.

I described what I wanted, he just took notes. In slow time he sent me a draft SOW which I reviewed myself then sent to the commercial people who thought it looked OK.

Another vendor showed up with a full dog and pony show and tried answering the questions on the spot.

They seemed less interested in the problem I was trying to solve.



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perceptions_now
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Re: Politics, Economics & New Realities!
Reply #7 - Aug 25th, 2013 at 11:47am
 
cods wrote on Aug 25th, 2013 at 11:21am:
perceptions_now wrote on Aug 25th, 2013 at 11:06am:
As usual, those who purport to be Experts (yes - Maqqa & Longy) on Economics, are shown by their silence, to simply be people who formerly thought they were an Economics Exspurts, but who now understand that they are just a drips under pressure!

     




I take it you are the only expurt on economics on here then?????and nobody else is allowed an opinion..

bit of a ticket you have on yourself percy

why are you not working in treasury?? instead of just leaving the few on here to be amazed at your accuracy you are wasted surely?


Unlike some others, I actually recognize that I don't have all the answers!

However, I suppose due to my financial sector background, much of which was in insurance, I developed a habit of asking LOTS OF QUESTIONS & DUE TO THAT I MAY TEND TO LOOK A LITTLE DEEPER AT THE WHAT, WHERE, HOW & WHY, of some issues, particularly on Economics?

As for "allowing others their opinion", isn't that what is happening, by me posting here & therefore raising the alternative/s for discussion. Of course, that doesn't mean, I will simply allow others to get away with posting things which I understand to be incorrect, particularly on Economic issues & particularly if these other individuals hold themselves out as being ExSpurts", when clearly they are not!


As for working for Treasury, why would I want to be constrained within that regime AND in any event, I AM RETIRED & ENJOYING BEING SO!

Oh & finally, this thread is meant to be a discussion on the New Realities of Politics & Economics, so
I look forward to any comments relating to those actual issues
from yourself, Maqqa, Longy & anyone else.



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Maqqa
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Re: Politics, Economics & New Realities!
Reply #8 - Aug 25th, 2013 at 11:48am
 
RightSadFred wrote on Aug 25th, 2013 at 11:45am:
Maqqa

At work I call those types Power Point Engineers, I meet up with many sales people and that is mostly what you get. The smarter ones seem to show up with nothing, not even a notebook. They take you out to lunch and don't pretend to understand what they are selling. They write down all the logistics required and all the questions I ask then get back to me.

Last year I was negotiating about $200k of work required and one guy did precisely such.

I described what I wanted, he just took notes. In slow time he sent me a draft SOW which I reviewed myself then sent to the commercial people who thought it looked OK.

Another vendor showed up with a full dog and pony show and tried answering the questions on the spot.

They seemed less interested in the problem I was trying to solve.






SOW - Statement of Work  Grin Grin

A project manager are you?

I agree with the engineer comment - they sit in glass bubble and purports to know reality
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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number
 
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perceptions_now
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Re: Politics, Economics & New Realities!
Reply #9 - Aug 25th, 2013 at 11:51am
 
Maqqa wrote on Aug 25th, 2013 at 11:30am:
cods wrote on Aug 25th, 2013 at 11:21am:
perceptions_now wrote on Aug 25th, 2013 at 11:06am:
As usual, those who purport to be Experts (yes - Maqqa & Longy) on Economics, are shown by their silence, to simply be people who formerly thought they were an Economics Exspurts, but who now understand that they are just a drips under pressure!

     




I take it you are the only expurt on economics on here then?????and nobody else is allowed an opinion..

bit of a ticket you have on yourself percy

why are you not working in treasury?? instead of just leaving the few on here to be amazed at your accuracy you are wasted surely?


you see cods.....

PN cuts and copy from Google searches and claims to be the expert

A truly knowledgeable person presents a discussion of concepts, it's application to reality and sprinkles facts into the discussion to back their assertions

PN can't do that

When PN tries - PN gets all muddled up between theory and reality. Muddle up between idealist textbook written decades in the past and the modern reality

The difference here between what longie and I present is far more better than what PN tries to present

This difference is comparable to the difference between a cook and a chef

PN can't even boil water



As I said Maqqa, I look forward to any comments relating to those actual issues
from yourself, Maqqa, Longy & anyone else.

As usual, your SPIN personal comments won't cut the mustard.

Of course, you could try to comment on the actual issues, although from your past tries, you won't get too far, as you have an apparent dose of NFI, when it comes to Economic issues!
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perceptions_now
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Re: Politics, Economics & New Realities!
Reply #10 - Aug 25th, 2013 at 11:09pm
 
Mr Abbott said within a decade - after another three elections - the Budget surplus will be 1 per cent of GDP,
defence spending increased to 2 per cent of GDP, the private health insurance rebate fully restored but the Government would be a smaller percentage of the economy.

Link -
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/special-features/voters-urged-to-take-a-chance-...

That is very unlikely, for 2 major reasons -
1) The Economy is very unlikely to recover, given the Global collapse of Economic Drivers and it will most likely deteriorate faster due to the Liberals AUS-terity programs and therefore a Surplus would only occur, IF the OZ Economy was migrating to a much worse place than it is now!
2) Given the likely Economic deterioration, it is extremely unlikely that the Libs would win 2 elections in a row, let alone 3!   
 
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perceptions_now
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Re: Politics, Economics & New Realities!
Reply #11 - Feb 22nd, 2014 at 11:12am
 
I re-post the following, as it is relevant to the current "discussion" on Pensions & Health Care costs.

And, as I have said previously, these issues & others have been  well known for quite some times (decades) and IF Labor & Liberal Pollies had taken appropriate actions, over the last 30-40 years, then the current "urgent discussions & Budget Emergencies", would not be taking place! 

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 19th, 2010 at 10:18pm:
freediver wrote on Jun 19th, 2010 at 9:39pm:
You are leaving out the cost of raising and educating children. That gets a lot cheaper when the population shrinks, and it is not an insiginficant chunk of government revenue.

Plus, not all old people are useless, even if they don't know how to use a mouse.


Oh, I am sure the cost of education is significant, just no where near the Pension & additional Health costs of the largest generation in history, the Baby Boomers.

At least in OZ we have some advantages that other countries lack, for example we have a partial retirement fund for the Boomers under the "Super Guarantee" and the Dent level has started out low, whereas in the US most of their Boomers will retire pretty much with nothing and go straight onto the government pension and most other countries already have massive Debt.

The estimates I have seen suggest somewhere around $50-60 Trillion in unfunded liabilities for aged Pensions & Health.

By way of example, in days gone by, there were around 8 workers to fund the retirement of ONE retiree. Getting toward the end of the Boomer retirements, that ratio is estimated to decline to around 2/1!

The strain on government Revenue Vs Outlays, on a Global basis, is set to do what happened in economic growth, Debt is going Exponential, at least for the short to medium term!

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perceptions_now
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Re: Politics, Economics & New Realities!
Reply #12 - Feb 22nd, 2014 at 12:19pm
 
I re-post the following, as it provides "food for thought", as we now enter 2014, which is 50 years on from the "official" end of the Baby Boomer years.

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 25th, 2010 at 2:07pm:
If my assumptions prove to be correct, then I would see the following graph of New Housing in the USA continue its overall downwards trend, for some time to come.

http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2010/6/23/saupload_new_home_sales_lt.png
The above graph comes from the following Seeking Alpha article -
http://seekingalpha.com/article/211524-housing-numbers-show-worst-data-ever-reco...

I would also suggest the following correlations, as food for thought -
1933 - 1983 (Birth rate starts to increase - Economy & Share markets start to rise)
1945 - 1995 (Birth rate goes into high gear - Economy takes off)
1956 - 2006 (Birth rate Peaks - Economy Peaks)
1964 - 2014 (End of Boomer Gen - ???)

Good luck, watch the Debt & hope for Innovations, because Energy has Peaked!

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perceptions_now
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Re: Politics, Economics & New Realities!
Reply #13 - Feb 22nd, 2014 at 8:51pm
 
Another flashback follows, highlighting the dilemma's now being faced -

perceptions_now wrote on Jun 26th, 2010 at 11:36am:
Demographic boom getting ready to bust


That ticking generational time bomb that politicians have been warning and arguing about for 30 years is about to explode on Jan. 1.

That’s the day when the first of roughly 80 million baby boomers turn 65. The boomer generation was the largest in American history until the Millennial Generation, those under 30, came along.

Whether you are a boomer or not, demographic trends will affect everything from taxes to immigration.

In the midst of one of the most transformative demographic shifts ever, the United States is rapidly becoming grayer and browner.

Eighty percent of those over 65 are white, compared to 56 percent of those under 15 — with Hispanics accounting for almost all the minority growth among children. By 2030, according to the Brookings Institution’s chief demographer, William Frey, 71 percent of the over-65 population and 46 percent of children under 15 will be white. Over the next decade, he predicts the working-age population will include 5 million fewer whites and 15 million more minorities, with 90 percent of the latter growth coming from Hispanics.


In coming decades, the working-age population’s growth will be among demographic groups with the least education and work skills. The high school dropout rate for Hispanics, for instance, is about twice the national average, Frey said.

At the same time, the huge generation of boomers is about to cash in on unsustainable entitlement promises.

“You have an older, whiter generation that is really going to be sucking up all the money in the future (through) Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and interest on the debt that they have run up during their tenure of running things, versus a poorer, more minority generation that is not getting the money,” Davis said.

What does this mean for you?

If you are a senior or approaching retirement with adequate savings and a pension, not much beyond a generational urge to make your grandchildren’s’ country as strong and as prosperous as it has been for you.

But some seniors may work longer, due to a lack of savings or because they work in professions like the sciences, where a dearth of qualified young workers may result in incentives to boomers to postpone retirement.

But if you are younger, higher taxes — or serious adjustments to expectations — appear inevitable. It is very difficult to see how the United States solves its long-term debt and entitlement promises without higher taxes for the middle class and the rich, or by cutting retirement-focused entitlement programs.
Tax-and-spend tensions are already emerging, with House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer saying this week that a serious discussion needs to take place before Congress permanently extends middle-class tax cuts passed in the early months of Obama’s administration.

These are the hard truths that Americans say they want to hear from their politicians, but rarely do. Such positions often turn into political death sentences at the next election.
Link -
http://rocnow.com/article/opinion-syndicated-columns/20106240348
====
What will the Boomer Bust mean for OZ?

For a starter, higher taxes on those who can most afford it!

Lower Benefits & Services, for some!

An absolute efficiency drive, by governments at all levels and probably one less arm of government!

A complete simplification of Services, Outlays & Revenues, particularly the Tax system!
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Re: Politics, Economics & New Realities!
Reply #14 - Feb 22nd, 2014 at 9:27pm
 
Not surprising - If we continue as we have, by 2030 we will need 2 Earth's to continue using the same amount of resources.

It's time to look at other more technologically advanced ways to power our homes and cars, even stop our reliance on vehicles.

We could of course wait until it's too late - if we haven't already.
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Putting the n in cuts
 
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