Australian Politics Forum - Rudd admits no mandate for Carbon Tax

rabbitoh07

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Re: Rudd admits no mandate for Carbon Tax
Reply #15 - Aug 25^th, 2013 at 7:35pm

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 7:31pm:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 7:29pm:

RightSadFred wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 6:38pm:

1) They lied about the carbon tax

We don't have a carbon tax. We have a price on carbon with a 3 year fixed price period.
And Gillard went to the last election saying it would provide a mandate for a price on carbon

In an election-eve interview with The Australian, the Prime Minister revealed she would view victory tomorrow as a mandate for a carbon price
http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/julia-gillard-my-carbon-price-p...

RightSadFred wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 6:38pm:

2) The lost control of the borders

Don't be silly.

We have some 4 million entries to this country every year. Of these - some 25,000 are unauthorised

0.7%.

THis means some 99.3% of all entries to this country are authorised.

And you call 99.3% - "lost control of the borders"!!!
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/youve-been-misled-on...

And don't forget - the vast majority of the 0.7% of unauthorised entries are completely legal, bonafide asylum seekers.

RightSadFred wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 6:38pm:

3) They proved they are economic idiots

How did they do this?

By giving Australia triple A ratings with all 3 major credit agencies, keeping Australia out of recession and giving Australia one of the lowest debts in the developed world!?!!?

You really are very gullible, aren't you.

So you are disagreeing with your messiah, Kev the Con?

how unsurprising.

Yes - I am disagreeing with, Kev the Con?

But when did he become my "messiah"?
I didn't vote for him or his party.

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longweekend58

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Re: Rudd admits no mandate for Carbon Tax
Reply #16 - Aug 25^th, 2013 at 7:37pm

rabbitoh07 wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 7:35pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 7:31pm:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 7:29pm:

RightSadFred wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 6:38pm:

1) They lied about the carbon tax

We don't have a carbon tax. We have a price on carbon with a 3 year fixed price period.
And Gillard went to the last election saying it would provide a mandate for a price on carbon

In an election-eve interview with The Australian, the Prime Minister revealed she would view victory tomorrow as a mandate for a carbon price
http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/julia-gillard-my-carbon-price-p...

RightSadFred wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 6:38pm:

2) The lost control of the borders

Don't be silly.

We have some 4 million entries to this country every year. Of these - some 25,000 are unauthorised

0.7%.

THis means some 99.3% of all entries to this country are authorised.

And you call 99.3% - "lost control of the borders"!!!
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/youve-been-misled-on...

And don't forget - the vast majority of the 0.7% of unauthorised entries are completely legal, bonafide asylum seekers.

RightSadFred wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 6:38pm:

3) They proved they are economic idiots

How did they do this?

By giving Australia triple A ratings with all 3 major credit agencies, keeping Australia out of recession and giving Australia one of the lowest debts in the developed world!?!!?

You really are very gullible, aren't you.

So you are disagreeing with your messiah, Kev the Con?

how unsurprising.

Yes - I am disagreeing with, Kev the Con?

But when did he become my "messiah"?
I didn't vote for him or his party.

well the carbon tax is toast along with the ALP.

tough luck!!!

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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# Gold Member Offline A fool is certain: an ignorant fool, absolutely so Posts: 2603	Re: Rudd admits no mandate for Carbon Tax Reply #17 - Aug 25^th, 2013 at 7:38pm longweekend58 wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 7:33pm: ... Gillard didn't need the Greens to form govt ... You've been disabused of that notion before. Repeating it now is a lie.
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Maqqa

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Re: Rudd admits no mandate for Carbon Tax
Reply #18 - Aug 25^th, 2013 at 7:44pm

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 7:33pm:

# wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 7:30pm:

Maqqa wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 6:39pm:

Most of his cabinet have said they have a mandate - so who do we believe

Didn't Labor form a coalition with another party that went to the election with a policy for a carbon tax? Wouldn't that give the party concerned some sort of mandate? That party being part of the government, wouldn't that give the government a mandate?

that's the best excuse Ive seen yet. Congrats. OF course the party that gets 39% of the vote gets excluded while the party that gets 11% gets the nod. Makes perfect sense.

Gillard didn't need the Greens to form govt as that was in the bag. And she didn't need them to pass legislation in the senate as they mostly voted against her bills anyhow.

and now the carbon tax is set to be repealed. Keve the Con has already admitted that there is no mandate for it!

After this election - there will be a mandate for abolishing the carbon tax

I do wish we would "un-ratify" Kyoto

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Bill 14% is not the alcohol content of that wine. It's your poll number

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rabbitoh07

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Re: Rudd admits no mandate for Carbon Tax
Reply #19 - Aug 25^th, 2013 at 7:45pm

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 7:37pm:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 7:35pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 7:31pm:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 7:29pm:

RightSadFred wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 6:38pm:

1) They lied about the carbon tax

We don't have a carbon tax. We have a price on carbon with a 3 year fixed price period.
And Gillard went to the last election saying it would provide a mandate for a price on carbon

In an election-eve interview with The Australian, the Prime Minister revealed she would view victory tomorrow as a mandate for a carbon price
http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/julia-gillard-my-carbon-price-p...

RightSadFred wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 6:38pm:

2) The lost control of the borders

Don't be silly.

We have some 4 million entries to this country every year. Of these - some 25,000 are unauthorised

0.7%.

THis means some 99.3% of all entries to this country are authorised.

And you call 99.3% - "lost control of the borders"!!!
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/youve-been-misled-on...

And don't forget - the vast majority of the 0.7% of unauthorised entries are completely legal, bonafide asylum seekers.

RightSadFred wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 6:38pm:

3) They proved they are economic idiots

How did they do this?

By giving Australia triple A ratings with all 3 major credit agencies, keeping Australia out of recession and giving Australia one of the lowest debts in the developed world!?!!?

You really are very gullible, aren't you.

So you are disagreeing with your messiah, Kev the Con?

how unsurprising.

Yes - I am disagreeing with, Kev the Con?

But when did he become my "messiah"?
I didn't vote for him or his party.

well the carbon tax is toast along with the ALP.

tough luck!!!

No - it isn't.

Even if he were to control the Senate - Tony will only replace carbon pricing with his own GREAT BIG CARBON TAX

If you really insist on call carbon pricing a tax - you would also have to concede that the Liberals Direct Action is also a "carbon tax". They will use tax money to pay to polluters. How is that not a "Carbon Tax"?

And as for his GREAT BIG BABY TAX - that is actually a tax. A 1.5% tax on 3,200 business.

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40708 Gender:	Re: Rudd admits no mandate for Carbon Tax Reply #20 - Aug 25^th, 2013 at 7:47pm .........the greatest moral challenge of our time............ aside from voting the alp off the planet
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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: Rudd admits no mandate for Carbon Tax Reply #21 - Aug 25^th, 2013 at 7:49pm I think this will backfire on Rudd
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Dnarever

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Re: Rudd admits no mandate for Carbon Tax
Reply #22 - Aug 25^th, 2013 at 9:16pm

RightSadFred wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 6:43pm:

Maqqa

So Howard went to an election saying he would introduce a GST and won with an improved majority, the ALP claimed he had no mandate.

Gillard lied about a Carbon tax, had an election draw ..... but they claim they had a mandate ?

I can see why Rudd is back pedalling for the ALP on that one.

Howard was lucky to sneak over the line in that election with 49% of the vote against almost no opposition.

I don't think that Labor said he had no mandate it was everyone else. Howard only ever became PM on the basis that he had committed to never ever introduce a GST.

Gillard broke her commitment to not introduce a tax, it wasn't a Lie.

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rabbitoh07

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Re: Rudd admits no mandate for Carbon Tax
Reply #23 - Aug 25^th, 2013 at 9:25pm

Maqqa wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 7:44pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 7:33pm:

# wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 7:30pm:

Maqqa wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 6:39pm:

Most of his cabinet have said they have a mandate - so who do we believe

Didn't Labor form a coalition with another party that went to the election with a policy for a carbon tax? Wouldn't that give the party concerned some sort of mandate? That party being part of the government, wouldn't that give the government a mandate?

that's the best excuse Ive seen yet. Congrats. OF course the party that gets 39% of the vote gets excluded while the party that gets 11% gets the nod. Makes perfect sense.

Gillard didn't need the Greens to form govt as that was in the bag. And she didn't need them to pass legislation in the senate as they mostly voted against her bills anyhow.

and now the carbon tax is set to be repealed. Keve the Con has already admitted that there is no mandate for it!

After this election - there will be a mandate for abolishing the carbon tax

I do wish we would "un-ratify" Kyoto

So, if Abbott gets in but does not abolish the ETS, because the Senate wont let him - will you be calling him a liar?

He says:
TONY Abbott started campaigning today by pledging that the first thing he will do when elected, would be to scrap the carbon tax legislation should he win the September 7 Australian election.

Will he be a liar when he doesn't do this?

And how about when he introduces his own GREAT BIG CARBON TAX - and uses tax money to pay polluters. Will you be calling him a liar then? Why is an ETS a "carbon tax", but using tax money to pay to polluters is not a "carbon tax"? Can you explain?

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Armchair_Politician

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Re: Rudd admits no mandate for Carbon Tax
Reply #24 - Aug 26^th, 2013 at 6:39am

rabbitoh07 wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 7:29pm:

RightSadFred wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 6:38pm:

1) They lied about the carbon tax

We don't have a carbon tax. We have a price on carbon with a 3 year fixed price period.
And Gillard went to the last election saying it would provide a mandate for a price on carbon

In an election-eve interview with The Australian, the Prime Minister revealed she would view victory tomorrow as a mandate for a carbon price
http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/julia-gillard-my-carbon-price-p...

It's a tax, live with it.

RightSadFred wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 6:38pm:

2) The lost control of the borders

Don't be silly.

We have some 4 million entries to this country every year. Of these - some 25,000 are unauthorised

0.7%.

THis means some 99.3% of all entries to this country are authorised.

And you call 99.3% - "lost control of the borders"!!!
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-opinion/youve-been-misled-on...

And don't forget - the vast majority of the 0.7% of unauthorised entries are completely legal, bonafide asylum seekers.

How many people were in detention when Rudd came to power? That's right - four. How many since then? That's right - more than 50,000. There's also been more than 1,500 deaths at sea. The cost of dealing with this issue has blown out from less than $100m per year to almost $2bn per year. Labor HAS lost control of the borders to people smugglers.

RightSadFred wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 6:38pm:

3) They proved they are economic idiots

How did they do this?

By giving Australia triple A ratings with all 3 major credit agencies, keeping Australia out of recession and giving Australia one of the lowest debts in the developed world!?!!?

You really are very gullible, aren't you.

They took a $22bn surplus and have turned it into a debt of nearly $300bn after raising the debt ceiling twice so they can continue with their reckless spending/borrowing , thanks to policies that run over budget and are rorted to no end. One deficit after the other, all forward estimated have been wrong by hundreds of millions of dollars. Lets not forget the mining tax. It raked in zero in the first six months, yet the government had already spent money it expected to get from that tax - borrowed money. Labor are economic vandals and Swan was far and away the worst Treasurer this country has ever seen. Time to take those beer goggles off your eyes!

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Scott Morrison DID wipe the floor with Bull Shitten!!!

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cods

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Re: Rudd admits no mandate for Carbon Tax
Reply #25 - Aug 26^th, 2013 at 6:57am

rabbitoh07 wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 9:25pm:

Maqqa wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 7:44pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 7:33pm:

# wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 7:30pm:

Maqqa wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 6:39pm:

Most of his cabinet have said they have a mandate - so who do we believe

Didn't Labor form a coalition with another party that went to the election with a policy for a carbon tax? Wouldn't that give the party concerned some sort of mandate? That party being part of the government, wouldn't that give the government a mandate?

that's the best excuse Ive seen yet. Congrats. OF course the party that gets 39% of the vote gets excluded while the party that gets 11% gets the nod. Makes perfect sense.

Gillard didn't need the Greens to form govt as that was in the bag. And she didn't need them to pass legislation in the senate as they mostly voted against her bills anyhow.

and now the carbon tax is set to be repealed. Keve the Con has already admitted that there is no mandate for it!

After this election - there will be a mandate for abolishing the carbon tax

I do wish we would "un-ratify" Kyoto

So, if Abbott gets in but does not abolish the ETS, because the Senate wont let him - will you be calling him a liar?

He says:
TONY Abbott started campaigning today by pledging that the first thing he will do when elected, would be to scrap the carbon tax legislation should he win the September 7 Australian election.

Will he be a liar when he doesn't do this?

And how about when he introduces his own GREAT BIG CARBON TAX - and uses tax money to pay polluters. Will you be calling him a liar then? Why is an ETS a "carbon tax", but using tax money to pay to polluters is not a "carbon tax"? Can you explain?

why would it be a LIE???.. can you explain.???

if he is stopped by the senate how is that HIS FAULT.. canyou explain?

WHAT GREAT BIG CARBON TAX IS TONY GOING TO INTRODUCE? can you explain that?

its almost impossible to answer questions that make no sense.

GILLARD BTW SAID.. THERE WILL BE NO CARBON TAX ETC.ETC.

AND THEN BY HER OWN FAIR HAND DID THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE.... JUST TO APPEASE THE GREENS......WHO CONTROLLED THE SENATE...........IS THAT REALLY WHAT PEOPLE VOTED FOR IN 2010?... can you explain?

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cods

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Re: Rudd admits no mandate for Carbon Tax
Reply #26 - Aug 26^th, 2013 at 6:59am

Dnarever wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 9:16pm:

RightSadFred wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 6:43pm:

Maqqa

So Howard went to an election saying he would introduce a GST and won with an improved majority, the ALP claimed he had no mandate.

Gillard lied about a Carbon tax, had an election draw ..... but they claim they had a mandate ?

I can see why Rudd is back pedalling for the ALP on that one.

Howard was lucky to sneak over the line in that election with 49% of the vote against almost no opposition.

I don't think that Labor said he had no mandate it was everyone else. Howard only ever became PM on the basis that he had committed to never ever introduce a GST.

Gillard broke her commitment to not introduce a tax, it wasn't a Lie.

now you are saying rudd didnt say it..LOL.. first gillard now rudd.. never ever sat what they say..... go figure.. Grin

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rabbitoh07

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Re: Rudd admits no mandate for Carbon Tax
Reply #27 - Aug 26^th, 2013 at 7:57am

cods wrote on Aug 26^th, 2013 at 6:57am:

rabbitoh07 wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 9:25pm:

Maqqa wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 7:44pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 7:33pm:

# wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 7:30pm:

Maqqa wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 6:39pm:

Most of his cabinet have said they have a mandate - so who do we believe

Didn't Labor form a coalition with another party that went to the election with a policy for a carbon tax? Wouldn't that give the party concerned some sort of mandate? That party being part of the government, wouldn't that give the government a mandate?

that's the best excuse Ive seen yet. Congrats. OF course the party that gets 39% of the vote gets excluded while the party that gets 11% gets the nod. Makes perfect sense.

Gillard didn't need the Greens to form govt as that was in the bag. And she didn't need them to pass legislation in the senate as they mostly voted against her bills anyhow.

and now the carbon tax is set to be repealed. Keve the Con has already admitted that there is no mandate for it!

After this election - there will be a mandate for abolishing the carbon tax

I do wish we would "un-ratify" Kyoto

So, if Abbott gets in but does not abolish the ETS, because the Senate wont let him - will you be calling him a liar?

He says:
TONY Abbott started campaigning today by pledging that the first thing he will do when elected, would be to scrap the carbon tax legislation should he win the September 7 Australian election.

Will he be a liar when he doesn't do this?

And how about when he introduces his own GREAT BIG CARBON TAX - and uses tax money to pay polluters. Will you be calling him a liar then? Why is an ETS a "carbon tax", but using tax money to pay to polluters is not a "carbon tax"? Can you explain?

why would it be a LIE???.. can you explain.???

if he is stopped by the senate how is that HIS FAULT.. canyou explain?

Exactly. Gillard was forced to add a 3 year fixed price period to the carbon pricing promise she took to the election out of necessity of gaining the Green support in a minority Government.

You seem to think this was a "lie".

Tony has promised to scrap the "tax". But he will not repeal the ETS. It will never happen He must be a liar.

cods wrote on Aug 26^th, 2013 at 6:57am:

WHAT GREAT BIG CARBON TAX IS TONY GOING TO INTRODUCE? can you explain that?

Direct Action.
$9 billion dollars of tax money to be paid to big polluters
How is that not a tax?
It is a new spending of tax receipts
It is a GREAT BIG TAX

But ignoring those problems, the SKM modelling conservatively estimated the ERF would pay an average of $24 a tonne for abatement up to 2020, by which time 370 million tonnes would need to be abated. That equates to almost $9 billion, or $4 billion more than what is to be allocated to the ERF.
http://www.politifact.com.au/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/aug/20/mark-butler/ho...

You want to keep calling an ETS a "tax". How is using $9billion of tax money not a "tax"?

cods wrote on Aug 26^th, 2013 at 6:57am:

GILLARD BTW SAID.. THERE WILL BE NO CARBON TAX ETC.ETC.

By "ETC ETC" - you mean Gillard said:
THere will be no carbon tax, but I am committed to putting a price on carbon

Which is exactly what she did. We have no carbon tax - but we have a market-based price on carbon, but with a 3 year fixed price period which was added out of necessity of gaining the Green support in a minority Government.

cods wrote on Aug 26^th, 2013 at 6:57am:

AND THEN BY HER OWN FAIR HAND DID THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE.... JUST TO APPEASE THE GREENS......WHO CONTROLLED THE SENATE...........IS THAT REALLY WHAT PEOPLE VOTED FOR IN 2010?... can you explain?

Yes - that is what people voted for in 2010

A majority of Australians voted for parties which went to the election with a commitment to put a price on carbon.
Labor was committed to putting a price on carbon
The Greens were committed to putting a price on carbon
Most of the independents supported putting a price on carbon

It was the commitment to put a price on carbon that the ALP took to the election that got them over the line to be able to form government.

However - in order to get legislation through the Senate - the ALP had to negotiate with the Greens, and a 3 year fixed price period was added to the ETS.

This is why I ask you - when Tony finds himself in EXACTLY the same position, and is forced to negotiate with The Greens to "scrap the tax" - will you call him a liar when he does not "scrap the tax".

Because he won't. Australia will continue to have an ETS. Tony's 3-word-slogan is just hot air.

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cods

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Re: Rudd admits no mandate for Carbon Tax
Reply #28 - Aug 26^th, 2013 at 8:12am

rabbitoh07 wrote on Aug 26^th, 2013 at 7:57am:

Yes - that is what people voted for in 2010

A majority of Australians voted for parties which went to the election with a commitment to put a price on carbon.
Labor was committed to putting a price on carbon
The Greens were committed to putting a price on carbon

how can you possibly claim that???.. that is such a BIG ASK>. since when does anyone vote for something that was all the go in the previous election???>.. it doesnt happen... and now even rudd claims they didnt have a mandate .

if people REALLY WANTED IT the GREENS VOTE WOULD HAVE GONE THROUGH THE ROOF>>>

AS IT IS THEY ONLY GOT ONE SEAT THANKS TO PREFERENCES ON THE LOWER HOUSE...

and they look like ,losing it this time round....

you really believe that tripe dont you?

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Dnarever

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Re: Rudd admits no mandate for Carbon Tax
Reply #29 - Aug 26^th, 2013 at 8:54am

cods wrote on Aug 26^th, 2013 at 6:59am:

Dnarever wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 9:16pm:

RightSadFred wrote on Aug 25^th, 2013 at 6:43pm:

Maqqa

So Howard went to an election saying he would introduce a GST and won with an improved majority, the ALP claimed he had no mandate.

Gillard lied about a Carbon tax, had an election draw ..... but they claim they had a mandate ?

I can see why Rudd is back pedalling for the ALP on that one.

Howard was lucky to sneak over the line in that election with 49% of the vote against almost no opposition.

I don't think that Labor said he had no mandate it was everyone else. Howard only ever became PM on the basis that he had committed to never ever introduce a GST.

Gillard broke her commitment to not introduce a tax, it wasn't a Lie.

now you are saying rudd didnt say it..LOL.. first gillard now rudd.. never ever sat what they say..... go figure..

Sorry Cods but I have no idea what you are talking about .

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