Australian Politics Forum - Political SPIN & Reality

perceptions_now

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Political SPIN & Reality
Aug 26^th, 2013 at 11:43am

All will become apparent & transparent, IF THERE IS LESS SPIN & MORE REALITY.
Anyone, with other prime examples of SPIN (for any Political Party) &/or REALITY, PLEASE POST THEM HERE!

perceptions_now wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 7:15pm:

adelcrow wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 6:30pm:

Hockey has again been caught out using net debt figures when referring to the Coalitions past budgets and gross debt when referring to Labors budgets.

Yep ..just what we need... another mean and tricky Coalition govt Grin

Ah, that's what I was referring to here -

perceptions_now wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 4:04pm:

crocodile wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 2:03pm:

Armchair_Politician wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 9:00am:

# wrote on Aug 17^th, 2013 at 3:21pm:

Maqqa wrote on Aug 17^th, 2013 at 3:19pm:

Debt under LIBs = ZERO

Debt under ALP = $300B

GFC

You've made the rather common mistake of comparing gross debt to net debt. The coalition never had gross debt below zero. The lowest gross debt was end of 2006 at around 50 bil.

Net debt was negative as claimed. If you want to compare debts then you really should either compare net with net or gross with gross. As of today, government net debt is around 180 bil.

It ended years ago. Why not blame the Great Depression too??? Roll Eyes

Gross Debt is/was, as follows -
Date (30 June) Gross Debt ($ millions)
2007 58,284
2008 60,462
2009 101,147
2010 147,133
2011 191,291
2012 233,976
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_national_debt

The Net Debt situation, from 1970-now can be found at the following site -
http://www.budget.gov.au/2012-13/content/myefo/html/13_appendix_d.htm
As can be seen, the Libs picked up a Net Debt on taking office in 1996, which Peaked at some $96 Billion, they then converted that into a Net Credit of $45 Billion on leaving office in 2007 ,just as the GFC was getting under way.
The last figures, on this article, shows Labor going back to a Net Debt of around $144 Billion at the end of June 2012.
It is also worth noting that Net Debt rose initially when Hawke/Keating won office in 1983. It then fell back to more usual levels, before rising again, which co-incided with the Economic slowdown of the early to mid 1990's.

It should also be noted that Hockey actually went urther than Maqqa, by claiming Zero Debt when the Libs left office & that Labor would leave a $400 Billion Debt on leaving office. Given the above, it would seem both Maqqa & Joe have used the Libs Net Debt on leaving office AND both have used the Gross Labor Debt, with Maqqa maybe using an estimate for the end of June 2014 & Joe perhaps using a forward estimate guestimate for 2017???

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« Last Edit: Aug 26^th, 2013 at 11:57am by perceptions_now »

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perceptions_now

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Re: Political SPIN & Reality
Reply #1 - Aug 26^th, 2013 at 11:46am

perceptions_now wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 7:41pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 7:16pm:

adelcrow wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 6:54pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 6:48pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 6:42pm:

adelcrow wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 6:30pm:

Hockey has again been caught out using net debt figures when referring to the Coalitions past budgets and gross debt when referring to Labors budgets.
Yep ..just what we need... another mean and tricky Coalition govt Grin

and net debt makes it look better?? $200B net debt vs $0?

Yeah not the point.
Just tell the smacking truth.

Over 80 billion dollars of debt left by the Howard govt is closer to the truth..0 debt is a lie

the facts don't support that however.. but you never let that get in the way, do you? But ironically here you are doing EXACLTY what you deride Hockey for doing.

idiot.

In fact, the Howard Libs left a Gross Debt of about $60 Billion and their NET Debt was actually a Credit of about $45 Billion, when they left office.

The current Gross Debt is about $260 Billion & Net Debt is about $144 Billion.

And, before those on both sides start their SPIN, it should be noted that -
1) The Howard years (1996-2007) were Peak Global Economic years , due to the Baby Boomer Boom.

Whilst these were Peak Economic years, credit should go to the Libs, as they clearly out performed most other Politicians from around the world, who did little to nothing to take advantage of the Boom times.

That said, quite a bit of the Libs Debt pay-down of Debt did come from asset sales AND they sold a whole bundle of gold at around $250 a ton, which is now worth around $1,400 a ton.

2) The Labor years (2007-2013) have seen the GFC commence, which is 2nd only to the great Depression & it is certainly far from over.

Whilst Labor has had a torrid Global Economy, they haven't gone overboard with increasing Debt, as did many other countries, BUT they certainly did create a few sizable errors (cock-ups), along the way!

It is appropriate that, Politicians from both major party's should be forced to use factually correct information!

Perhaps, IF they fail to do so, THEN THEY COULD BE SENT TO THE "NAUGHTY CHAIR" FOR A WEEK AS PUNISHMENT?

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perceptions_now

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Re: Political SPIN & Reality
Reply #2 - Aug 26^th, 2013 at 11:48am

perceptions_now wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 8:04pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 7:53pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 7:41pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 7:16pm:

adelcrow wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 6:54pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 6:48pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 6:42pm:

adelcrow wrote on Aug 20^th, 2013 at 6:30pm:

Hockey has again been caught out using net debt figures when referring to the Coalitions past budgets and gross debt when referring to Labors budgets.
Yep ..just what we need... another mean and tricky Coalition govt Grin

and net debt makes it look better?? $200B net debt vs $0?

Yeah not the point.
Just tell the smacking truth.

Over 80 billion dollars of debt left by the Howard govt is closer to the truth..0 debt is a lie

the facts don't support that however.. but you never let that get in the way, do you? But ironically here you are doing EXACLTY what you deride Hockey for doing.

idiot.

In fact, the Howard Libs left a Gross Debt of about $60 Billion and their NET Debt was actually a Credit of about $45 Billion, when they left office.

The current Gross Debt is about $260 Billion & Net Debt is about $144 Billion.

And, before those on both sides start their SPIN, it should be noted that -
1) The Howard years (1996-2007) were Peak Global Economic years , due to the Baby Boomer Boom.

Whilst these were Peak Economic years, credit should go to the Libs, as they clearly out performed most other Politicians from around the world, who did little to nothing to take advantage of the Boom times.

That said, quite a bit of the Libs Debt pay-down of Debt did come from asset sales AND they sold a whole bundle of
gold at around $250 a ton
, which is now worth around $1,400 a ton.

2) The Labor years (2007-2013) have seen the GFC commence, which is 2nd only to the great Depression & it is certainly far from over.

Whilst Labor has had a torrid Global Economy, they haven't gone overboard with increasing Debt, as did many other countries, BUT they certainly did create a few sizable errors (cock-ups), along the way!

It is appropriate that, Politicians from both major party's should be forced to use factually correct information!

Perhaps, IF they fail to do so, THEN THEY COULD BE SENT TO THE "NAUGHTY CHAIR" FOR A WEEK AS PUNISHMENT? [/b]

it should be noted that he $144B net debt is a figure from a year ago and is likely top be notably higher. After all, those deficits don't fund themselves.

Anyhow, using these net figures the picture is an embarrassment of epic proportions. $45B in the bank in cash and a mere 6 years later we are $200B+ worse off. It is hard to look at that as anything other than an epic fail.

That is correct, the $144 Billion figure was the last official figure that I recall, from 30/06/2012.

That would be incorrect! When viewed with the relevant Economic times & the absolute disasters incurred by most other countries, Australia has held up reasonably well, thanks both to the Libs & Labor, although both could have & should have, done better!

Oh yes & as corrected by Phil, Gold was actually $250 per ounce, not per Ton!

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perceptions_now Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 11694 Perth WA Gender:	Re: Political SPIN & Reality Reply #3 - Aug 26^th, 2013 at 11:54am Maqqa wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 2:23pm: I note all the austerity talk from lefties as if it's a bad thing Facts are Austerity simply means spending less because the previous government had wasted sooooo much money
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Re: Political SPIN & Reality
Reply #4 - Aug 26^th, 2013 at 11:55am

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 3:02pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 2:23pm:

I note all the austerity talk from lefties as if it's a bad thing

Facts are Austerity simply means spending less because the previous government had wasted sooooo much money

"Normally", Austerity programs are simply part of the ups & downs of the "Normal" Economic cycle, which have been a "Normal" part of Economics, for much of the last 200 years or so, of the Modern Economic Era!

However, this is not a "Normal" Economic cycle, owing to the prolonged impacts of Demographics, Energy Shortages/Price increases & Climate Change!

Therefore the "Normal" across the board Austerity programs are (think Europe)/would be (think Australia, the USA & elsewhere) absolutely the wrong thing, at absolutely the wrong time! Indeed, many of the "Normal" Economic fixes applied via both the Austrian & Keynesian Economic schools of thought, which have previously been successfully used, will now prove to be largely ineffective

That said, targeted change, to reduce expenses & primary consideration going to improving Productivity, is absolutely the correct thing, as this once in history combination of Economic drivers will continue to impact on us Locally & Globally, for decades to come.

WE NEED NEW APPROACHES/SOLUTIONS TO THESE PROBLEMS, WHICH ARE FAR FROM "NORMAL"!

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1372809408/16#16

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Re: Political SPIN & Reality
Reply #5 - Aug 26^th, 2013 at 11:59am

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 4:17pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 4:05pm:

Must be why we just sacked the PM and Treasurer Buzz.

Because we are doing so well?

The AUD has tanked.
Unemployment is increasing across the economy, particularly manufacturing.
The resources boom is slowing.
Cost of living continues to place huge pressure on families.
Gross debt has increased by over 330%.

Australia is not looking that good lately.

Its not talking the economy down, its being honest.

So Andrei, why do you think that the OZ Economy is slipping & are we alone in that slip?

And, HOW DEEP & HOW LONG will the slip be?

Finally, what difference would a change of government make, if any & why?

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Re: Political SPIN & Reality
Reply #6 - Aug 26^th, 2013 at 12:00pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 4:36pm:

I'll give my views from the other side of the world here in England PN and if I knew the answer to some of those questions, I'd be in a lot more powerful position that my current one.

I just closed out the ANZ result for Q2.
Our revenue is being translated into the Corp result at 0.899.
I look back to Q1 close and I was translating it at 1.048. In Q4 I translated it at 1.086.

See a trend here?

By the way that's good for our OpEx which are lower but sh*thouse for gas sales from your region...

Why is it tanking?

Ok here is my view.

Australia has never been performing that well over the last couple of quarters.
There has been an excessive boom across China which has spurred the need for resources and natural mineral production refinement.

Chinas boom is slowing.
As a result that will see an end to more of the masking factors if you like.

Australia's manufacturing employment has not been good for a long time.
I sat with a high up guy at Holden recently who told me its near on impossible to produce cars in Australia now and that are not great outlooks for GMC in Australia the next few years.
Cost of living is high, competition is intense, salaries are too high in that sector.

The economy is small. You're only a little country. Here in Britain we're part of a much more powerful trading block in the EU to compete with the US and Asia.
Australia will find it hard to go it alone with such a small base.
So to keep your competitiveness, attract investment you need much higher interest rates than we have.
Thus increasing cost of living pressures with mortgages to your families etc.

How does Australia get out of this slide?
I don't know, I think debt increasing which you have done year on year since 2007 is not the answer.
No matter what your circumstance increasing debt is not really ever am answer.

What you're going to see now is essentially what's being going on for a while.
An economy in trouble but just this time the Chinese growth stalling is not going to mask it anymore.

There has been an intense amount of job losses in Australia lately across sectors.
I recruited for a $200k Fin Controller role lately down there. The amount of guys I had the cv who had recently been made redundant was huge. Strong candidates too. It was a sign of how tough it is out there now when you have skilled experienced guys looking for a paycut to get a job.

Australia has some rough days ahead I think.

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perceptions_now

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Re: Political SPIN & Reality
Reply #7 - Aug 26^th, 2013 at 12:03pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 7^th, 2013 at 9:58pm:

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 4:36pm:

Australia has never been performing that well over the last couple of quarters.
There has been an excessive boom across China which has spurred the need for resources and natural mineral production refinement.

Chinas boom is slowing.
As a result that will see an end to more of the masking factors if you like.

Australia's manufacturing employment has not been good for a long time.

You're only a little country. Here in Britain we're part of a much more powerful trading block in the EU to compete with the US and Asia.
Australia will find it hard to go it alone with such a small base.
So to keep your competitiveness, attract investment you need much higher interest rates than we have.

How does Australia get out of this slide?
I don't know, I think debt increasing which you have done year on year since 2007 is not the answer.
No matter what your circumstance increasing debt is not really ever am answer.

What you're going to see now is essentially what's being going on for a while.
An economy in trouble but just this time the Chinese growth stalling is not going to mask it anymore.

Australia has some rough days ahead I think.

Well Andrei, you are dwelling too much on Economic effects, when you should be looking at basic causes!

In order to get a good perspective on why the OZ Economy is slipping & it is, you/we/us first need to have a good look at the Global situation, because those are the major issues impacting the OZ Economy!

In order to get some proper perceptions of what & why, things are changing, I would suggest a quick look at the major drivers that have been impacting the Global Economy, for much of the modern era, since say around 1800.

The absolute standouts are -
Demographics
This has been the biggest & most consistent driver of Global Demand & therefore Economic Growth, certainly since 1800.
Global Fertility around 1800 was about 6 children for each women, in many western countries it dipped to a low around the early 1930's (which coincided with the Great Depression), then peaked again around 1956, before starting a relentless decline which now sees the Global rate around 2.
With 2.1 being regarded as the break even point, we are now bordering on actual Population reductions and indeed some countries are already much lower than break even, with Japan & a number of European countries being prime examples.

So, the Demand Growth is now slowing AND NO AMOUNT OF KEYNESIAN ECONOMICS WILL INCREASE DEMAND GROWTH BACK TO THE LEVELS OF THE LAST 40-50 YEARS!

Equally, THE USUAL AUSTERITY MEASURES, TO BRING HIGH DEBT LEVELS BACK TO NORMAL, KNOWING THAT THE USUAL POPULATION GROWTH WILL EVENTUALLY SPARK DEMAND GROWTH AGAIN & THEREFORE RESTART THE ECONOMY, WILL ALSO NOT WORK THIS TIME!

Energy
Fossil fuels such as Coal, Oil & Gas has been one of the great "energisers/Enablers" of Global Economic Growth, since around 1800. These fuels have been both Plentiful AND Cheap, for some 200 years, BUT since around 2000 the Oil & Coal gravy train has started to run down, with supply not keeping up with the usual Demand increases & Prices therefore rising, unless the Global Economy starts to slow.

Technology
The second of the great "energisers/Enablers" of Global Economic Growth, since around 1800, with Technological advances being a substantial basis of Productivity gains, which have translated into great advances in Economic Growth!

Now, it MAY be possible that Technology MAY again come to our rescue & it MAY produce answers that MAY solve the Energy problem/s, BUT that would be a huge gamble to take & I simply don't believe that good Public policy should run those sort of risks AND quite frankly I think it is highly unlikely that Technology will actually solve the Energy problem/s!

So, the likely outcome is that these major Economic drivers will continue their apparent new paths & the Global & local OZ Economies will continue to experience lower Growth, than the past 40-59 years AND that will translate into a long term Economic slowdown!

That slowdown will not be able to be corrected, like the usual Economic cycle and we will be obliged to look at new "solutions" against which we will measure success, although success is unlikely to have the same meaning as it once did?

Finally, I am fully aware that this news is hardly palatable, BUT at least forewarned is forearmed & those who have a better idea of what the future is really likely to bring, MAY be able to live better with the likely new realities?

Oh & the following MAY be of interest, for those looking for background -
http://kounfinance.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/global-economic-driver-world-populati...

http://www.econ.umn.edu/~guvenen/paper6.pdf
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1372809408/16#16

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Re: Political SPIN & Reality
Reply #8 - Aug 26^th, 2013 at 12:04pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 12:10am:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 3:02pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jul 6^th, 2013 at 2:23pm:

I note all the austerity talk from lefties as if it's a bad thing

Facts are Austerity simply means spending less because the previous government had wasted sooooo much money

"Normally", Austerity programs are simply part of the ups & downs of the "Normal" Economic cycle, which have been a "Normal" part of Economics, for much of the last 200 years or so, of the Modern Economic Era!

However, this is not a "Normal" Economic cycle, owing to the prolonged impacts of Demographics, Energy Shortages/Price increases & Climate Change!

Therefore the "Normal" across the board Austerity programs are (think Europe)/would be (think Australia, the USA & elsewhere) absolutely the wrong thing, at absolutely the wrong time! Indeed, many of the "Normal" Economic fixes applied via both the Austrian & Keynesian Economic schools of thought, which have previously been successfully used, will now prove to be largely ineffective

That said, targeted change, to reduce expenses & primary consideration going to improving Productivity, is absolutely the correct thing, as this once in history combination of Economic drivers will continue to impact on us Locally & Globally, for decades to come.

WE NEED NEW APPROACHES/SOLUTIONS TO THESE PROBLEMS, WHICH ARE FAR FROM "NORMAL"!

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1372809408/16#16

No response Maqqa!

Because, you know what I'm saying is correct?

Or because, as usual, you simply have NFI what is actually driving Economics and nor do the Liberals or Labor!
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1373084587/73#73

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Re: Political SPIN & Reality
Reply #9 - Aug 26^th, 2013 at 12:05pm

Swagman wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:51am:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 12:10am:

That said, targeted change, to reduce expenses & primary consideration going to improving Productivity, is absolutely the correct thing, as this once in history combination of Economic drivers will continue to impact on us Locally & Globally, for decades to come.

WE NEED NEW APPROACHES/SOLUTIONS TO THESE PROBLEMS, WHICH ARE FAR FROM "NORMAL"!

I agree with most of this statement.

Productivity improvement should be top of the list.

Tax reform.

Reforming out of date IR policies.

Concentrating on providing (affordable) incentives to industries that Australia has a competitive advantage and not cripple them with taxes .

Reforming Govt services to make them more self sustainable.

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Re: Political SPIN & Reality
Reply #10 - Aug 26^th, 2013 at 12:06pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 4:18pm:

Swagman wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 10:51am:

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 12:10am:

That said, targeted change, to reduce expenses & primary consideration going to improving Productivity, is absolutely the correct thing, as this once in history combination of Economic drivers will continue to impact on us Locally & Globally, for decades to come.

WE NEED NEW APPROACHES/SOLUTIONS TO THESE PROBLEMS, WHICH ARE FAR FROM "NORMAL"!

I agree with most of this statement.

Productivity improvement should be top of the list.

Tax reform.

Reforming out of date IR policies.

Concentrating on providing (affordable) incentives to industries that Australia has a competitive advantage and not cripple them with taxes .

Reforming Govt services to make them more self sustainable.

Well, there certainly is a lot to do!

However, I would make reducing government from 3 branches to 2, as the first cab of the rank.

In doing so, I would completely get rid of Local Councils, by making those services fall under the relevant State Government minister for Local government.

That would remove one whole tier of graft & corruption, although there would still be plenty to go around.

And, it would reduce expenses, additional red tape & unnecessary variations in local regulations.

That said, there is also a heck of a lot about both Commonwealth & State governments that also need a lot of changing!

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Re: Political SPIN & Reality
Reply #11 - Aug 26^th, 2013 at 12:08pm

Maqqa wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 11:21pm:

PN

Your posts in regards to this deserves no answer because you will demonise the LIBs for cuts but applaud the ALP for the very same cuts

So you are not interested in a discussion

Unless and until you admit there is a need for a cut because expenditure have skyrocketed under this Labor government - what is there to discuss

Your interest was never about economic or budgetary debate

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Re: Political SPIN & Reality
Reply #12 - Aug 26^th, 2013 at 12:09pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 11:41pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 11:21pm:

PN

Your posts in regards to this deserves no answer because you will demonise the LIBs for cuts but applaud the ALP for the very same cuts

So you are not interested in a discussion

Unless and until you admit there is a need for a cut because expenditure have skyrocketed under this Labor government - what is there to discuss

Your interest was never about economic or budgetary debate

More of your standard rubbish, Maqqa!

As I have already said -
Therefore the "Normal" across the board Austerity programs are (think Europe)/would be (think Australia, the USA & elsewhere) absolutely the wrong thing, at absolutely the wrong time! Indeed, many of the "Normal" Economic fixes applied via both the Austrian & Keynesian Economic schools of thought, which have previously been successfully used, will now prove to be largely ineffective

That said, targeted change, to reduce expenses & primary consideration going to improving Productivity, is absolutely the correct thing, as this once in history combination of Economic drivers will continue to impact on us Locally & Globally, for decades to come.

WE NEED NEW APPROACHES/SOLUTIONS TO THESE PROBLEMS, WHICH ARE FAR FROM "NORMAL"!

And, that applied to both major parties.

The problem is, when the Libs win the forthcoming election, they will implement their standard fix (across the board Austerity) and it is simply the worst option, for a bad time!

You can go ahead and bury your head in the sand & pretend it will all go away? The problem is YOUR SOLUTION IS WRONG AT THIS TIME & IT WILL MAKE A BAD SITUATION WORSE!

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Re: Political SPIN & Reality
Reply #13 - Aug 26^th, 2013 at 12:10pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 11:53am:

Dale Ftard wrote on Jul 9^th, 2013 at 1:10am:

Put that into millions or billions and you can see already investment would be threatened bu the greedy ALP. $100M or $100Bn revenue is nothing if the company and investors have spent years and $$$ in exploration and development an the greedy ALP want to tax them twice and think that a "super profit" is 6%??? WTF??

An interesting perception, Dale?

However, I would suggest that $100 Billion is a large figure, not matter which way it is viewed, as backed up by the following website, which shows the Largest Corporate Annual Earnings of All Time, with the top earner being ExxonMobil in 2008 at $45.22Bn!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_corporate_profits_and_losses

Oh& btw, it should come as no surprise to anyone how much those company's in the Oil & Gas sector figure in the above all time earners list!

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Re: Political SPIN & Reality
Reply #14 - Aug 26^th, 2013 at 12:13pm

perceptions_now wrote on Jul 26^th, 2013 at 11:27pm:

Maqqa wrote on Jul 26^th, 2013 at 10:51pm:

http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/latest/18164803/labor-razor-gang-faces-dilem...

The Federal Government is facing a budget dilemma,
with the ABC learning revenues are around $8 billion lower than the May budget predicted.

The Government's razor gang met this morning to debate whether to implement painful budget cuts before the election or delay the return to surplus, currently scheduled for 2016-17.

The budget is in a tough position with the mining tax underperforming and revenue from other taxes also lower than expected.

Treasurer Chris Bowen today said Australia was also facing "dramatic reductions" in its terms of trade, but reaffirmed the intention to return to surplus on schedule.

The Government has got decisions to make on any potential cuts, but insiders insist the easy cuts have all already been made.

One Labor source questioned whether the Government should cause budget pain for the public at a time when Labor is just starting to perform better in the polls.

The Government will release its fiscal update next week, and Treasury will release its own accounting, the pre-election fiscal outlook (PEFO), early in the election campaign.

Earlier Friday, Opposition treasury spokesman Joe Hockey questioned the motives for the release of the Government's fiscal update so close to the PEFO.

"Why is the Government releasing a comprehensive economic statement just a few days before the pre-election fiscal outlook? It is about trying to bully the Treasury into a fixed set of numbers," he said.

Mr Hockey questioned the independence of Treasury by saying the Coalition would not rely on its figures to frame its policy costings because they could not be trusted.

That was despite earlier in the year saying "the only numbers than we can rely on are the PEFO numbers released by the heads of department during the course of the election campaign".

Mr Hockey now says every time the Government publishes budget figures they are "dead-set wrong".

He says the Coalition will instead base its policy costings on figures from the Parliamentary Budget Office, state Coalition governments and independent advisers.

The Treasurer has rejected Mr Hockey's assertions about Treasury's independence.

"It is an insult not to me but to the Treasury and the Department of Finance, and I am sick and tired of the Opposition trashing the reputation of Australia's public servants," Mr Bowen said.

Opposition Leader Tony Abbott has backed his treasury spokesman.

"Joe was making the point that figures from this Government have never turned out to be true; never, never, never starting from their very first budget."

No sh!t Sherlock!

Pity is, that you, the Liberals & Labor, NONE OF YOU HAVE AY IDEA OF THE CAUSE, LET ALONE WHAT YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE OVER THE LAST 40-50 YEARS, NOR WHAT YOU SHOULD DO OVER THE NEXT 40-50 YEARS!!!

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Question: SPIN or REALITY
I am for SPIN I am into REALITY « Created by: perceptions_now on: Aug 26^th, 2013 at 4:54pm »