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Why satellites cannot measure sea level..?? (Read 9854 times)
Ajax
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Why satellites cannot measure sea level..??
Aug 30th, 2013 at 4:45pm
 
Professor Willie Soon discusses why satellites can't do the job



Tide gauges are a good check on satellite data.

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
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Ajax
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Re: Why satellites cannot measure sea level..??
Reply #1 - Aug 31st, 2013 at 10:01am
 
No response lads....??????
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Re: Why satellites cannot measure sea level..??
Reply #2 - Aug 31st, 2013 at 3:59pm
 
Ajax wrote on Aug 31st, 2013 at 10:01am:
No response lads....??????

The toddler persistently demands attention. After a while, the adults stop paying it.
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« Last Edit: Aug 31st, 2013 at 4:05pm by # »  
 
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Ajax
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Re: Why satellites cannot measure sea level..??
Reply #3 - Aug 31st, 2013 at 5:36pm
 
# wrote on Aug 31st, 2013 at 3:59pm:
Ajax wrote on Aug 31st, 2013 at 10:01am:
No response lads....??????

The toddler persistently demands attention. After a while, the adults stop paying it.


If you have nothing to say...best not say anything... Kiss
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muso
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Re: Why satellites cannot measure sea level..??
Reply #4 - Aug 31st, 2013 at 6:52pm
 
Willy Soon is an Astronomer (Astrophysicist). He comments on just about every discipline apart from his own, and that includes Polar Bear distributions and Sea Level.  He is well paid by the Heartland Institute, who in turn are paid by coal and oil companies. He has never actually published anything on Sea Level, and his little party piece doesn't come from a position of understanding the technology or performing some kind of statistical analysis. Nothing so technical, and no actual paper.

Willie Soon's own words on his methodology:

Quote:
Over Christmas I happen to ah, all the dots and everything fall into places



I've already given you the information on the Swedish chef, or retired Geology Associate professor.

He was even embarassing himself in the late 90s boasting about his magical powers.
http://www.mindspring.com/~anson/randi-hotline/1998/0012.html

Quote:
LOOKING IN ON SWEDEN

I've described here previously how a pompous-assed "dowsing expert" named Nils-Axel Morner, associate professor of geology from Stockholm University, has consistently refused to be tested for the Pigasus Prize. A helpful correspondent in Sweden referred me to
http://www.tdb.uu.se/~karl/dowsing/ where I found that Morner was tested -- amateurishly -- on a prominent Swedish TV show, "The Plain & Simple Truth," on TV2 on February 27th. Morner was first provided the opportunity to brag about anecdotal successes, then he was tested. A local celebrity -- a singer -- was involved, as is usual with these drearily predictable affairs. The singer chose one of ten cups under which to conceal a packet of sugar. He chose number seven; are we surprised? Morner had designed this test, saying that it was especially difficult for him to do. (???) He said that water or metal could be located "right away," but not sugar.
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« Last Edit: Aug 31st, 2013 at 7:36pm by muso »  

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#
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Re: Why satellites cannot measure sea level..??
Reply #5 - Aug 31st, 2013 at 9:31pm
 
Ajax wrote on Aug 31st, 2013 at 5:36pm:
...
If you have nothing to say...best not say anything... Kiss

OK, child. Of Willie Soon, Sourcewatch says Quote:
Dr. Willie Wei-Hock Soon (who is most commonly referred to as Willie Soon) is a global warming skeptic. He is a physicist at the Solar, Stellar, and Planetary Sciences Division of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics and, since 1992[1], has been an astronomer at the Mount Wilson Observatory,[2], where climate denier and Marshall Institute co-founder Robert Jastrow was Director[3] from 1992-2003.[4]

"U.S. oil and coal companies, including ExxonMobil, the American Petroleum Institute, Koch Industries, and the world’s largest coal-burning utility, Southern Company, have contributed more than $1 million over the past decade to his research. According to Greenpeace, every grant Dr. Soon has received since 2002 has been from oil or coal interests."[5]
...
Biographical notes

A biographical note formerly on the website of DCI Group-run Tech Central Station, where Soon was listed as "Science Director" between approximately September 2003[6] and May 2007, listed his "areas of Expertise" as "Global warming", "Mercury", "Solar Variability" and the "Arctic".[7] His bio note on TCS stated that "Dr. Willie Soon's views expressed are not necessarily those of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics."[7]

A biographical note from 2000 stated that he was "a contributing editor to World Climate Report and member of the American Astrophysical Society, American Geophysical Union, and International Astronomical Union."[8] Two years later, another biographical note stated that he was a former contributing editor to World Climate Report but added that he was then an "Adjunct Professor of the Faculty of Science and Environmental Studies of the University of Putra, Malaysia." It also stated that "for years, he has researched the topic of the orbital theory of climate change, the Milankovic theory for glacial and interglacial changes."[9]

Global Warming Skeptic ties

Soon has long been associated with various U.S. and Canadian think tanks disputing human-induced global warming. Many of the papers he has published on the topic have been co-authored with Sallie L. Baliunas and sometimes with her and other co-authors.

Between December 1998[10] and September 2001[11] he was listed as a "Scientific Adviser" to the Greening Earth Society, a group that was funded and controlled by the Western Fuels Association (WFA), an association of coal-burning utility companies. WFA founded the group in 1997, according to an archived version of its website, "as a vehicle for advocacy on climate change, the environmental impact of CO2, and fossil fuel use."[12] While Soon remains listed on the websites of various think tanks noted for disputing global warming -- such as the Fraser Institute in Canada and the George C. Marshall Institute in the U.S. -- Soon has not written for them for a long time. (For example, the last paper by Soon published on the website of the Fraser Institute dates back to January 2003[13] and for the Marshall Institute the last published paper was in May 2003[14]) (Baliunas was one of the other "scientific advisers").

As of early 2009, Soon's current biographical note states that he "is chief science adviser for the Science and Public Policy Institute".[15] Prior to Bob Ferguson founding SPPI in mid 2007, Soon worked with him from mid-2003 at the Center for Science and Public Policy, a project of Frontiers of Freedom (FOF)[16] funded, at least in part, by Exxon.[17]

The site's use of the term "skeptic" in relation to this character is overly generous.

According to DeSmogBlog Quote:
Soon is a prominent climate change skeptic who has received much of his research funding from the oil and gas industry.

According to David Suzuki:

Quote:
"U.S. oil and coal companies, including ExxonMobil, the American Petroleum Institute, Koch Industries, and the world’s largest coal-burning utility, Southern Company, have contributed more than $1 million over the past decade to his research. According to Greenpeace, every grant Dr. Soon has received since 2002 has been from oil or coal interests."

With so many ties to the rabid Right and fossil fuel industry, his credibility I would charitably put at nil.

Ajax, do you deliberately choose such risible sources?
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muso
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Re: Why satellites cannot measure sea level..??
Reply #6 - Aug 31st, 2013 at 9:44pm
 
By the way, Ajax,  that Soon and Baliunas (2003) paper that you quoted is the only paper that has ever led to the resignation of 6 editors in protest at the failure of peer-review that led to its publication. Google the "Soon and Baliunas controversy".

The paper was repudiated by the publisher.
Quote:
Why satellites cannot measure sea level..??


The experts in Sea Level - University of Colorado Sea Level Unit differ on that. Willie Soon has obviously taken some time off manipulating Polar Bear distribution data to "oh ah connect the dots" but just about every oceanographer adopts a more methodical approach.   It's an accepted standard methodology. If you look at the graph of Sea Level that I posted 6 times, you'll find the link.
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« Last Edit: Aug 31st, 2013 at 9:50pm by muso »  

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Ajax
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Re: Why satellites cannot measure sea level..??
Reply #7 - Sep 1st, 2013 at 10:35am
 
Typical AGW religious reactions, shoot the messenger.

You don't need to be a rocket scientist, if the frequency can only work within 100mm or so how can it be expected to be accurate to 3mm.....???????

Not to mention cloud cover and wind and water vapour and even solar radiation.

As usual pissing against the wind boys..................???
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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
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Re: Why satellites cannot measure sea level..??
Reply #8 - Sep 1st, 2013 at 9:03pm
 
Ajax wrote on Sep 1st, 2013 at 10:35am:
...
You don't need to be a rocket scientist, ...
But it helps to be literate, numerate and of at least average intelligence.
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Ajax
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Re: Why satellites cannot measure sea level..??
Reply #9 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 1:56pm
 
# wrote on Sep 1st, 2013 at 9:03pm:
Ajax wrote on Sep 1st, 2013 at 10:35am:
...
You don't need to be a rocket scientist, ...
But it helps to be literate, numerate and of at least average intelligence.


At least I don't follow a religion because they scream out "because I said so", dude I want to see proof.

And so far the computer circulation models have just shown us how unreliable they really are.

If this was 50 years ago, there is enough evidence now to throw the AGW hypothesis in the rubbish bin where it belongs.
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Re: Why satellites cannot measure sea level..??
Reply #10 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 8:25pm
 
Ajax wrote on Sep 1st, 2013 at 10:35am:
Typical AGW religious reactions, shoot the messenger.

You don't need to be a rocket scientist, if the frequency can only work within 100mm or so how can it be expected to be accurate to 3mm.....???????

Not to mention cloud cover and wind and water vapour and even solar radiation.

As usual pissing against the wind boys..................???


I have no idea what you're talking about. Can anybody interpret?

As for shooting the messenger,  here is Willie Soon's stated methodology again:
Quote:
Over Christmas I happen to ah, all the dots and everything fall into places 


It's worth watching Willie Soon's video just for that gem alone.
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Re: Why satellites cannot measure sea level..??
Reply #11 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 8:34pm
 
Ajax have you read this?

http://notrickszone.com/2013/08/30/university-of-colorado-admits-radar-altimetry-is-pretty-much-useless-for-measuring-sea-level/

Satellite Measured Sea Level Is Measuring Ocean Heat
By Ed Caryl

Sometime in the last year, someone commented in some article that sea level rise as observed by satellite radar altimetry was overstated due to the fact that as warm water expands, it gets lighter, gravity has less pull on it, and it bulges up. Since then, a couple of global maps have come to my attention.

see link for the rest....Muso and friends, no need to follow this link, it will only offend your religious zeal.
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Re: Why satellites cannot measure sea level..??
Reply #12 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 8:51pm
 
What about Tide gauges? Are they subject to the same issue?

Quote:
Since 1993, measurements from the TOPEX and Jason series of satellite radar altimeters have allowed estimates of global mean sea level. These measurements are continuously calibrated against a network of tide gauges.

University of Colorado

Rider:
Quote:
Sometime in the last year, someone commented in some article that sea level rise as observed by satellite radar altimetry was overstated due to the fact that as warm water expands, it gets lighter, gravity has less pull on it, and it bulges up.


So you agree that the oceans are  getting warmer? Can you explain that to Ajax please, because he keeps on saying that there has been no warming?

So let's see.. the water bulges up... the sea level rises but it's not really a rise, it's just heat.  So you can't drown in it because where the seawater bulges up is actually phantom water. 

So that graph is actually a graph of increasing vertical bulge as opposed to rising sea level?

Who is this  Ed Caryl anyway? English grammar doesn't seem to be his strong point. He's not very good with logical argument. How's his arithmetic? Just a hunch. He reminds me of someone.

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Re: Why satellites cannot measure sea level..??
Reply #13 - Sep 3rd, 2013 at 2:31pm
 
Rider wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 8:34pm:
Ajax have you read this?

http://notrickszone.com/2013/08/30/university-of-colorado-admits-radar-altimetry-is-pretty-much-useless-for-measuring-sea-level/

Satellite Measured Sea Level Is Measuring Ocean Heat
By Ed Caryl
...

The only reference I could find to Ed Caryl, outside the denyosphere is this one from Wott's Up With That? Quote:
... the analysis is by Pierre Gosselin’s ”guest author” Ed Caryl, whose credentials seem limited to being a balding white male who likes to parrot that Antarctic ice is expanding. But that’s better than most of Anthony’s esteemed sources.
So he's apparently well-regarded in the denyosphere, but totally unqualified. The article in question is on No Tricks Zone, which pretty much says it all.
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Re: Why satellites cannot measure sea level..??
Reply #14 - Sep 3rd, 2013 at 3:25pm
 
# wrote on Sep 3rd, 2013 at 2:31pm:
Rider wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 8:34pm:
Ajax have you read this?

http://notrickszone.com/2013/08/30/university-of-colorado-admits-radar-altimetry-is-pretty-much-useless-for-measuring-sea-level/

Satellite Measured Sea Level Is Measuring Ocean Heat
By Ed Caryl
...

The only reference I could find to Ed Caryl, outside the denyosphere is this one from Wott's Up With That? Quote:
... the analysis is by Pierre Gosselin’s ”guest author” Ed Caryl, whose credentials seem limited to being a balding white male who likes to parrot that Antarctic ice is expanding. But that’s better than most of Anthony’s esteemed sources.
So he's apparently well-regarded in the denyosphere, but totally unqualified. The article in question is on No Tricks Zone, which pretty much says it all.


Did you get a special prize for being a good student at the Saul Alinsky College for Deadsh1ts?

* RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)

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