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The right ditching the mining tax (Read 2283 times)
Andrei.Hicks
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Re: The right ditching the mining tax
Reply #15 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 2:16pm  
Karnal wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 1:01pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 12:29pm:
the miners don't want more taxes.  NO ONE wants to pay more tax.  and the idiocy of this tax was the royaties being deductions.  so all the states had to do was increase the royalties and effectively take the money off the feds.  it was DUMB and incredibly OBVIOUS.

now if you wanted to discuss a sliding scale of company tax that applies to ALL companies then you might have an argument.  But simply taxing one industry above all others is intrinsically unfair.


It's not unfair - it's how taxation works. If you don't tax mining companies, the burden of paying for government services falls on income earners. In a two-speed economy, this source of revenue is not enough. The high dollar pushes manufacturing offshore. Where are the mining projects going to get all their skilled workers from?

Mining requires infrastructure and skilled workers - these things cost money. If the rest of the economy is sluggish, the tax revenue is not always there to pay for them.

And this is exactly the problem Australia finds itself it no matter what party gets in next week.

Just think, if you can't get a hundred FIFO electricians for your new project, you need to look elsewhere. If the government can't afford the track maintenance on the railway line, you need to pay for it yourself. Rail, ports, roads, skilled workers - these are all things mining companies rely on governments for.

They therefore need to be taxed accordingly. This is what tax is for.



Your dollar is trading at 89c now.

Your problem is workplace relations laws and costs, not the dollar.

How can a Ford AU worker cost double that of a Ford UK and Ford USA worker - it isnt currency.
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Dsmithy70
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Re: The right ditching the mining tax
Reply #16 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 2:42pm  
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 2:16pm:
Your dollar is trading at 89c now.

Your problem is workplace relations laws and costs, not the dollar.

How can a Ford AU worker cost double that of a Ford UK and Ford USA worker - it isnt currency.



And yet Ford charge 35K in Aus for the same car they charge 18K in EU & US.

But its always the cost of labour, are exec salaries considered Labour?
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: The right ditching the mining tax
Reply #17 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 2:56pm  
Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 2:42pm:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 2:16pm:
Your dollar is trading at 89c now.

Your problem is workplace relations laws and costs, not the dollar.

How can a Ford AU worker cost double that of a Ford UK and Ford USA worker - it isnt currency.



And yet Ford charge 35K in Aus for the same car they charge 18K in EU & US.

But its always the cost of labour, are exec salaries considered Labour?


Exec salaries are SG&A smithy.

Labour costs go into the COGS and impact Gross Margin.

Very different beasts.
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Dsmithy70
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Re: The right ditching the mining tax
Reply #18 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 3:09pm  
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 2:56pm:
Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 2:42pm:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 2:16pm:
Your dollar is trading at 89c now.

Your problem is workplace relations laws and costs, not the dollar.

How can a Ford AU worker cost double that of a Ford UK and Ford USA worker - it isnt currency.



And yet Ford charge 35K in Aus for the same car they charge 18K in EU & US.

But its always the cost of labour, are exec salaries considered Labour?


Exec salaries are SG&A smithy.

Labour costs go into the COGS and impact Gross Margin.

Very different beasts.


Of course they are, its always the guys earning 35K fault rather than the guy who earns 1.3 mill & makes the strategic business decisions.

If only we could get those greedy bastards on 6K, we might be OK for a few years.
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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
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longweekend58
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Re: The right ditching the mining tax
Reply #19 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 3:20pm  
Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 12:58pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 12:32pm:
but you think the rudd alternative - increased borrowings - is better?



No but lets just drop the bullsh!t that under the coalition COL will decrease, you'll get more services for less money & life will be wonderful.

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 12:32pm:
so will there be tax rises and spending cuts?  of course.  and it was always going to be thus.



And yet this is fine but Gillard is a liar FFS


get over yourself...  Abbott has already announced spending cuts while Gillard categorically promised something she reneged on mere days later.

When Abbott raises the GST next week you can complain.  Until then, Gillard is way, way out in front of the Lying PM stakes.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: The right ditching the mining tax
Reply #20 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 3:21pm  
Karnal wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 1:01pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 12:29pm:
the miners don't want more taxes.  NO ONE wants to pay more tax.  and the idiocy of this tax was the royaties being deductions.  so all the states had to do was increase the royalties and effectively take the money off the feds.  it was DUMB and incredibly OBVIOUS.

now if you wanted to discuss a sliding scale of company tax that applies to ALL companies then you might have an argument.  But simply taxing one industry above all others is intrinsically unfair.


It's not unfair - it's how taxation works. If you don't tax mining companies, the burden of paying for government services falls on income earners. In a two-speed economy, this source of revenue is not enough. The high dollar pushes manufacturing offshore. Where are the mining projects going to get all their skilled workers from?

Mining requires infrastructure and skilled workers - these things cost money. If the rest of the economy is sluggish, the tax revenue is not always there to pay for them.

And this is exactly the problem Australia finds itself it no matter what party gets in next week.

Just think, if you can't get a hundred FIFO electricians for your new project, you need to look elsewhere. If the government can't afford the track maintenance on the railway line, you need to pay for it yourself. Rail, ports, roads, skilled workers - these are all things mining companies rely on governments for.

They therefore need to be taxed accordingly. This is what tax is for.


Garbage.  all that amounts to is 'super tax the successful'

pitiful...
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Life_goes_on
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Re: The right ditching the mining tax
Reply #21 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 3:22pm  
The price difference isn't just down to wages. I doubt that they make up as much as 20% of the difference.
Removing wages altogether and comparing the cost between something that's imported into both Australia and the USA, the cost is still twice or more here. You can't blame wages on that.
It's more down to there being a relatively small market here when compared with the US (and just about anywhere else).

...and throw in our location, GST, import taxes etc....
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Karnal
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Re: The right ditching the mining tax
Reply #22 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 3:27pm  
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 2:16pm:
Karnal wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 1:01pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 12:29pm:
the miners don't want more taxes.  NO ONE wants to pay more tax.  and the idiocy of this tax was the royaties being deductions.  so all the states had to do was increase the royalties and effectively take the money off the feds.  it was DUMB and incredibly OBVIOUS.

now if you wanted to discuss a sliding scale of company tax that applies to ALL companies then you might have an argument.  But simply taxing one industry above all others is intrinsically unfair.


It's not unfair - it's how taxation works. If you don't tax mining companies, the burden of paying for government services falls on income earners. In a two-speed economy, this source of revenue is not enough. The high dollar pushes manufacturing offshore. Where are the mining projects going to get all their skilled workers from?

Mining requires infrastructure and skilled workers - these things cost money. If the rest of the economy is sluggish, the tax revenue is not always there to pay for them.

And this is exactly the problem Australia finds itself it no matter what party gets in next week.

Just think, if you can't get a hundred FIFO electricians for your new project, you need to look elsewhere. If the government can't afford the track maintenance on the railway line, you need to pay for it yourself. Rail, ports, roads, skilled workers - these are all things mining companies rely on governments for.

They therefore need to be taxed accordingly. This is what tax is for.



Your dollar is trading at 89c now.

Your problem is workplace relations laws and costs, not the dollar.

How can a Ford AU worker cost double that of a Ford UK and Ford USA worker - it isnt currency.


Then why does Japan have comparable wages and produce most of the cars in the region?

Your dollar? We like to call it our dollar, Andrei. Manufacturing has been in decline for years - due to a range of factors, including the high dollar, reduced tariffs and productivity rises in China.

There is no way Australia can compete with China for wages. I'd argue that there's no way to bring back manufacturing either.  If Australia is a mining and service economy, so be it.

But we need to tax the the miners and (who knows?) financial services accordingly.

From each according to his means, to each according to his needs. Scientific socialism, innit.

I hear Mr Abbott's a big fan.
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ImSpartacus2
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Re: The right ditching the mining tax
Reply #23 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 3:32pm  
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 2:56pm:
Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 2:42pm:
Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 2:16pm:
Your dollar is trading at 89c now.

Your problem is workplace relations laws and costs, not the dollar.

How can a Ford AU worker cost double that of a Ford UK and Ford USA worker - it isnt currency.



And yet Ford charge 35K in Aus for the same car they charge 18K in EU & US.

But its always the cost of labour, are exec salaries considered Labour?


Exec salaries are SG&A smithy.

Labour costs go into the COGS and impact Gross Margin.

Very different beasts.


What hypocrisy. Everyone else has to pay but not MEEE. Of course that's what this a grade A hole says and the large miners say as they're raking in the $$$ (and at the same time they tell us in ADs that the resources belong to all Australians). You think just because of some artificial distinction invented by accountants to serve their boss masters and cheat shareholders you should escape the same unconscionable labour laws you advocate for everyone else. No matter what inflated opinion you have of yourself your a bludger of the worst kind. 
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Karnal
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Re: The right ditching the mining tax
Reply #24 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 3:34pm  
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 3:21pm:
Karnal wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 1:01pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 12:29pm:
the miners don't want more taxes.  NO ONE wants to pay more tax.  and the idiocy of this tax was the royaties being deductions.  so all the states had to do was increase the royalties and effectively take the money off the feds.  it was DUMB and incredibly OBVIOUS.

now if you wanted to discuss a sliding scale of company tax that applies to ALL companies then you might have an argument.  But simply taxing one industry above all others is intrinsically unfair.


It's not unfair - it's how taxation works. If you don't tax mining companies, the burden of paying for government services falls on income earners. In a two-speed economy, this source of revenue is not enough. The high dollar pushes manufacturing offshore. Where are the mining projects going to get all their skilled workers from?

Mining requires infrastructure and skilled workers - these things cost money. If the rest of the economy is sluggish, the tax revenue is not always there to pay for them.

And this is exactly the problem Australia finds itself it no matter what party gets in next week.

Just think, if you can't get a hundred FIFO electricians for your new project, you need to look elsewhere. If the government can't afford the track maintenance on the railway line, you need to pay for it yourself. Rail, ports, roads, skilled workers - these are all things mining companies rely on governments for.

They therefore need to be taxed accordingly. This is what tax is for.


Garbage.  all that amounts to is 'super tax the successful'

pitiful...


The "successful" are foreign companies who take our resources with them. By the same token, would you tax foreign companies who came here, bought or leased all our land, farmed it, and sent the produce overseas?

Of course not - you wouldn't let them do this in the first place. We're not a cash-crop economy. Why should mining be any different?

Mind you, if you had a valid criticism, you'd post it. "Pitiful" is just an utterance. It's just the sort of thing Chris Pyne would say.
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Dsmithy70
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Re: The right ditching the mining tax
Reply #25 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 3:44pm  
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 3:20pm:
Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 12:58pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 12:32pm:
but you think the rudd alternative - increased borrowings - is better?



No but lets just drop the bullsh!t that under the coalition COL will decrease, you'll get more services for less money & life will be wonderful.

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 12:32pm:
so will there be tax rises and spending cuts?  of course.  and it was always going to be thus.



And yet this is fine but Gillard is a liar FFS


get over yourself...  Abbott has already announced spending cuts while Gillard categorically promised something she reneged on mere days later.

When Abbott raises the GST next week you can complain.  Until then, Gillard is way, way out in front of the Lying PM stakes.


Yeah
ok
its just the spending cuts announced, cuts that wont effect anyone, like the 10 billion clean energy fund.
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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento
 
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longweekend58
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Re: The right ditching the mining tax
Reply #26 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 4:02pm  
Karnal wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 3:34pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 3:21pm:
Karnal wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 1:01pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 12:29pm:
the miners don't want more taxes.  NO ONE wants to pay more tax.  and the idiocy of this tax was the royaties being deductions.  so all the states had to do was increase the royalties and effectively take the money off the feds.  it was DUMB and incredibly OBVIOUS.

now if you wanted to discuss a sliding scale of company tax that applies to ALL companies then you might have an argument.  But simply taxing one industry above all others is intrinsically unfair.


It's not unfair - it's how taxation works. If you don't tax mining companies, the burden of paying for government services falls on income earners. In a two-speed economy, this source of revenue is not enough. The high dollar pushes manufacturing offshore. Where are the mining projects going to get all their skilled workers from?

Mining requires infrastructure and skilled workers - these things cost money. If the rest of the economy is sluggish, the tax revenue is not always there to pay for them.

And this is exactly the problem Australia finds itself it no matter what party gets in next week.

Just think, if you can't get a hundred FIFO electricians for your new project, you need to look elsewhere. If the government can't afford the track maintenance on the railway line, you need to pay for it yourself. Rail, ports, roads, skilled workers - these are all things mining companies rely on governments for.

They therefore need to be taxed accordingly. This is what tax is for.


Garbage.  all that amounts to is 'super tax the successful'

pitiful...


The "successful" are foreign companies who take our resources with them. By the same token, would you tax foreign companies who came here, bought or leased all our land, farmed it, and sent the produce overseas?

Of course not - you wouldn't let them do this in the first place. We're not a cash-crop economy. Why should mining be any different?

Mind you, if you had a valid criticism, you'd post it. "Pitiful" is just an utterance. It's just the sort of thing Chris Pyne would say.


this same argument has been had ad nauseum before.  Royalties pay for the minerals in the ground.  they are not 'stolen' as some fools assert.  After that they are just like any other company which beggars the question why they should be singled out for extra tax when no other company or industry is.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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longweekend58
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Re: The right ditching the mining tax
Reply #27 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 4:04pm  
Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 3:44pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 3:20pm:
Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 12:58pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 12:32pm:
but you think the rudd alternative - increased borrowings - is better?



No but lets just drop the bullsh!t that under the coalition COL will decrease, you'll get more services for less money & life will be wonderful.

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 12:32pm:
so will there be tax rises and spending cuts?  of course.  and it was always going to be thus.



And yet this is fine but Gillard is a liar FFS


get over yourself...  Abbott has already announced spending cuts while Gillard categorically promised something she reneged on mere days later.

When Abbott raises the GST next week you can complain.  Until then, Gillard is way, way out in front of the Lying PM stakes.


Yeah
ok
its just the spending cuts announced, cuts that wont effect anyone, like the 10 billion clean energy fund.




so what?  or have you not noticed that we are losing $30B per year at the moment?  somehow that has to be made-up.

why is it that you criticise Libs for everything but scarcely criticise Labor for 6 years of debt-funded incompetence.
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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."
 
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Dsmithy70
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Re: The right ditching the mining tax
Reply #28 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 4:29pm  
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 4:04pm:
why is it that you criticise Libs for everything but scarcely criticise Labor for 6 years of debt-funded incompetence.



Because it was not 6 years of debt funded incompetence, although if you rely on the Tele or Advertiser in Adelaide or whatever its called you just might.

In fact Labor are the ones clawing back some of the largess only to be hammered for it.

Tonys the one promising more & your fawning over him like some doe eyed lover, suspending your reality FFS.

Stop being a school girl, look at the ACTUAL FACTS & make your own mind up.

I'm not championing Rudd or Labor they are smacking hopeless, but just because they are doesn't mean I should suddenly believe that spending more will increase wealth.
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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento
 
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Andrei.Hicks
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Re: The right ditching the mining tax
Reply #29 - Sep 2nd, 2013 at 4:32pm  
Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 4:29pm:
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2013 at 4:04pm:
why is it that you criticise Libs for everything but scarcely criticise Labor for 6 years of debt-funded incompetence.



Because it was not 6 years of debt funded incompetence, although if you rely on the Tele or Advertiser in Adelaide or whatever its called you just might.

In fact Labor are the ones clawing back some of the largess only to be hammered for it.

Tonys the one promising more & your fawning over him like some doe eyed lover, suspending your reality FFS.

Stop being a school girl, look at the ACTUAL FACTS & make your own mind up.

I'm not championing Rudd or Labor they are smacking hopeless, but just because they are doesn't mean I should suddenly believe that spending more will increase wealth.



Debt has risen by A$245,000,000,000 (335% increase).

The Government in the last 3 years have missed their OWN FORECASTS by A$107,000,000,000!!!

Cheesy  Cheesy
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Anyone who lives within their means suffers from a lack of imagination - Oscar Wilde
 
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