Australian Politics Forum - Making Australia ungovernable

bogarde73

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Making Australia ungovernable
Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 11:32am

I know there are a lot of people out there, some of them here, who would welcome a scenario where it's impossible for a govt to run the country because of an unworkable Senate. They live under some utopian delusion that in this way they can bring about a peoples' revolution.
Hence we have this farce of the Senate ballots and cross preference deals among unknown groups of dubious origin.
It would be in the interests of the Coalition and Labor to preference each other in future and let the contest be decided between them.
Shut the idiots out for good.

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Know the enemies of a civil society by their public behaviour, by their fraudulent claim to be liberal-progressive, by their propensity to lie and, above all, by their attachment to authoritarianism.

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viewpoint

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Re: Making Australia ungovernable
Reply #1 - Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 11:43am

bogarde73 wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 11:32am:

I know there are a lot of people out there, some of them here, who would welcome a scenario where it's impossible for a govt to run the country because of an unworkable Senate. They live under some utopian delusion that in this way they can bring about a peoples' revolution.
Hence we have this farce of the Senate ballots and cross preference deals among unknown groups of dubious origin.
It would be in the interests of the Coalition and Labor to preference each other in future and let the contest be decided between them.
Shut the idiots out for good.

Yes I don't disagree with this, as long as Pauline Hanson doesn't get a seat in the Senate. That would be like trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. If she wins against Arthur Sinodinos it will be a sad reflection of the Australian Senate preference system.

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Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
- Sir Winston Churchill

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longweekend58

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Re: Making Australia ungovernable
Reply #2 - Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 12:04pm

bogarde73 wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 11:32am:

I know there are a lot of people out there, some of them here, who would welcome a scenario where it's impossible for a govt to run the country because of an unworkable Senate. They live under some utopian delusion that in this way they can bring about a peoples' revolution.
Hence we have this farce of the Senate ballots and cross preference deals among unknown groups of dubious origin.
It would be in the interests of the Coalition and Labor to preference each other in future and let the contest be decided between them.
Shut the idiots out for good.

Most govts in our history have not had a senate majority and yet managed to make it work quite fine. It means you have to compromise and negotiate which is fine as long as the Greens are not involved. Unlike the Democrats and other parties/indies that have held the balance of power in the past, the Green don't compromise or negotiate and usually just oppose everything.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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____ Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 33410 Australia Gender:	Re: Making Australia ungovernable Reply #3 - Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 12:10pm A massive amount of legislation was past this term because of negotiation between Labor, Greens, and Independents. Get with the program Conservatives. Senate is the house of review ... not a rubber stamp for far right corruption.
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Innocent bystander Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4220 Gender:	Re: Making Australia ungovernable Reply #4 - Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 12:20pm The Greens don't oppose everything, if you wanted a law passed that promised to import 1 000 000 unemployed fake reffos to come here and retire on centrelink benefits for life they would sign on the dotted line in a second.
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longweekend58

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Re: Making Australia ungovernable
Reply #5 - Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 12:36pm

Innocent bystander wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 12:20pm:

The Greens don't oppose everything, if you wanted a law passed that promised to import 1 000 000 unemployed fake reffos to come here and retire on centrelink benefits for life they would sign on the dotted line in a second.

they voted no to 96% of bills.

that's close enough to everything. most labor bills were passed with Liberal support.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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cods

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Re: Making Australia ungovernable
Reply #6 - Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 1:52pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 12:36pm:

Innocent bystander wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 12:20pm:

The Greens don't oppose everything, if you wanted a law passed that promised to import 1 000 000 unemployed fake reffos to come here and retire on centrelink benefits for life they would sign on the dotted line in a second.

they voted no to 96% of bills.

that's close enough to everything. most labor bills were passed with Liberal support.

AND THE GREENS MAKE DEAL........DEALS DEALS DEALS..

IS THAT THE SORT OF GOVT WE NEED RIGHT NOW... Angry

you would have thought they learnt their lesson after jumping into bed with gillard...........

the people hate CARBON TAX...they dont want green DEALS.

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bogarde73 Gold Member Offline Anti-Global & Contra Mundum Posts: 18443 Gender:	Re: Making Australia ungovernable Reply #7 - Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 2:59pm Yes I don't disagree with this, as long as Pauline Hanson doesn't get a seat in the Senate. Apparently, according to Anthony Green's analysis, she is likely to. Just imagine that, a thoughtful, erudite person like Sinodinis being shuffled aside by Pauline Hanson and all because of this farcical system we have.
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John S

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Re: Making Australia ungovernable
Reply #8 - Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 3:50pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 12:36pm:

Innocent bystander wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 12:20pm:

The Greens don't oppose everything, if you wanted a law passed that promised to import 1 000 000 unemployed fake reffos to come here and retire on centrelink benefits for life they would sign on the dotted line in a second.

they voted no to 96% of bills.

that's close enough to everything. most labor bills were passed with Liberal support.

Liberals opposed all labor bill in the lower house then you are saying the liberal passed all labor bills in the senate.

You want to get your hand off it longy it will send you blind.

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'The worst Labor Government is always better then the best Liberal government for Australians workers'

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RightSadFred

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Re: Making Australia ungovernable
Reply #9 - Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 3:54pm

bogarde73 wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 2:59pm:

Yes I don't disagree with this, as long as Pauline Hanson doesn't get a seat in the Senate.

Apparently, according to Anthony Green's analysis, she is likely to. Just imagine that, a thoughtful, erudite person like Sinodinis being shuffled aside by Pauline Hanson and all because of this farcical system we have.

bogarde73

From memory wasn't he assigned as the 3rd option ?

The lower you are down the list the more likely you will miss out, can not blame Pauline for that.

I would like to remove the senate altogether like they did in QLD.

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John S Gold Member Offline Fascist Party = Liberal Party Posts: 3691 Gender:	Re: Making Australia ungovernable Reply #10 - Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 3:54pm There should be 4 more senators making 80 senators all up then half of them should be independents. All party senators elected at one elections and independents senators elected at the next election.
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ImSpartacus2

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Re: Making Australia ungovernable
Reply #11 - Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 4:21pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 12:04pm:

Most govts in our history have not had a senate majority and yet managed to make it work quite fine. It means you have to compromise and negotiate which is fine as long as the Greens are not involved. Unlike the Democrats and other parties/indies that have held the balance of power in the past, the Green don't compromise or negotiate and usually just oppose everything.

Hehe thats funny. A liberal accusing others that they "don't compromise or negotiate and usually just oppose everything"

The analysts are saying its very unlikely the coalition will win the senate and 6 Greens senators are not up for re election this time. I dont think you will be able to abolish the carbon tax (TES) or the resources tax and hopefully by mid term Abbott will want to push the issue and we will see a double dissolution and then it will be a whole new ball game.

People are disgusted with the major parties and one thing they could promise before but can't any longer is stability. And as this election proves, people are looking for alternatives and that will only get more intense as the major parties continue to fail to produce workable majorities. Interesting times ahead. Last election we heard a few voices in the background calling for direct democracy. This election there are 2 parties calling for it and their voices are more audible. I'm sure those of you who need a nanny to make the big decisions for them will fear such a change but you and your parties need to get out of the way for the future.

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Pantheon

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Re: Making Australia ungovernable
Reply #12 - Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 4:43pm

bogarde73 wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 11:32am:

I know there are a lot of people out there, some of them here, who would welcome a scenario where it's impossible for a govt to run the country because of an unworkable Senate. They live under some utopian delusion that in this way they can bring about a peoples' revolution.
Hence we have this farce of the Senate ballots and cross preference deals among unknown groups of dubious origin.
It would be in the interests of the Coalition and Labor to preference each other in future and let the contest be decided between them.
Shut the idiots out for good.

Generally Agreed! I have had enough with these clowns who have these laughable defence, economical, foreign policies.

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[b][center]Socialism had been tried on every continent on earth. In light of its results, it's time to question the motives of its advocates.

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ImSpartacus2

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Re: Making Australia ungovernable
Reply #13 - Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 6:24pm

____ wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 12:10pm:

A massive amount of legislation was past this term because of negotiation between Labor, Greens, and Independents.

Get with the program Conservatives. Senate is the house of review ... not a rubber stamp for far right corruption.

Most responsive government I have seen for a long time was this hung Parliament. If there was a box to tick hung parliament I would do it. But of course Abbott and Rudd tell us "Hung parliaments don't work" (of course, what do you expect them to say).

For those of you who have some sympathy for the idea of direct democracy, take a good look at the people on this site who are clearly labor and liberal supporters. These are people who have forgotten how to think. They attack each other with venom for things their own party was doing last election and they were justifying at the time. "Oh but that was different" How many times you heard that? There's no objectivity left in them anymore and they can't promise a change we can believe in anymore.

Direct democracy is real democracy. It lets us make the decisions not them. We don't need Uncle Tony and Uncle Kev (and the people behind closed doors who put them there). We're all grown up now. We can decide ourselves. We just have to start demanding it.

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Peter Freedman

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Re: Making Australia ungovernable
Reply #14 - Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 7:04pm

ImSpartacus2 wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 6:24pm:

____ wrote on Sep 2^nd, 2013 at 12:10pm:

A massive amount of legislation was past this term because of negotiation between Labor, Greens, and Independents.

Get with the program Conservatives. Senate is the house of review ... not a rubber stamp for far right corruption.

Most responsive government I have seen for a long time was this hung Parliament. If there was a box to tick hung parliament I would do it. But of course Abbott and Rudd tell us "Hung parliaments don't work" (of course, what do you expect them to say).

For those of you who have some sympathy for the idea of direct democracy, take a good look at the people on this site who are clearly labor and liberal supporters. These are people who have forgotten how to think. They attack each other with venom for things their own party was doing last election and they were justifying at the time. "Oh but that was different" How many times you heard that? There's no objectivity left in them anymore and they can't promise a change we can believe in anymore.

Direct democracy is real democracy. It lets us make the decisions not them. We don't need Uncle Tony and Uncle Kev (and the people behind closed doors who put them there). We're all grown up now. We can decide ourselves. We just have to start demanding it.

Congratulations, IS, on one of the most sensible postings I have read in a while.

Welcome, and I look forward to reading more of your thoughts.

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God grant me the patience to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and, above all, the wisdom to tell the difference.

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