Australian Politics Forum - Renewables save Germans $8.5bn a year

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Renewables save Germans $8.5bn a year
Sep 5^th, 2013 at 11:13am

Renewables slashing German energy prices by $8.5bn a year

By Karl-Friedrich Lenz on 4 September 2013

I just mailed my absentee ballot from Japan for the next German election. Living in Japan, I needed to fill out some forms and send them in to my last place of residence in Germany, but I thought this election is important enough to jump through those hoops.

Of course I voted for the Green Party.

One of the topics in this election season is the price of electricity. There is a lot of confusion around. Many people don’t understand that the renewable revolution caused by the German feed-in tariff model has lowered prices.

This is also a season to discuss the surcharge, which will be fixed for next year on October 15. Spiegel has an article on the topic, and Craig Morris has discussed that article here.

Morris links to an interesting study done by Brainpool for the German Green party (21 page PDF file), which looks at the next surcharge decision in some detail.

From that we learn (page 1) that German wholesale electricity prices are down from 5.115 cents estimated in 2012 to around 3.9 cents. Let’s just note that renewable energy has reduced wholesale prices by 1.2 cents per kWh.

Multiply that by the 482 TWh they expect Germany to consume next year (page 21) , and we see that renewable energy will reduce wholesale prices by EUR 5.784 billion ($A8.5 billion) next year.

Of course these lower prices will lead to a higher surcharge next year, since the surcharge is calculated by the difference between the feed-in tariff and the wholesale price.

But that’s only a temporary effect. It will be gone after a decade or two.

In contrast, the lower prices from a higher renewable share are here to stay. Those solar panels are not going anywhere.

Even if renewable energy did not reduce prices, as it already does, it would add to Germany’s price stability as a hedge against higher fossil fuel prices in the future.

But it does. Renewable energy reduces electricity prices in Germany.

And this is still only the beginning. Over the next couple of decades, electricity will reach at least 80 percent renewable share (Article 1 of the Law on Priority for Renewable Energy).

Of course there is also that “global warming” problem we seem to have. The analysis above doesn’t even mention that phasing out fossil fuels will reduce the costs from global warming damages.

We also learn from the Brainpool study I mentioned above (page 21), that the surcharges are expected to go up by 0.07 cents for another 4 GW solar over the year. That’s a killer number (007). It should lay to rest forever the outdated idea that solar is expensive.

And trying to slow down new solar in Germany right as costs have come down and we can finally reap the benefits from introducing it at rock bottom prices is a very stupid idea. If it was the right thing to build the World’s biggest solar infrastructure back when prices were really high (and it was the right thing to do), then it doesn’t make any sense at all to stop now.

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BigOl64

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Re: Renewables save Germans $8.5bn a year
Reply #1 - Sep 5^th, 2013 at 11:30am

Does some idiot's opinion pass for facts these days in the greens supporters camp?

The box heads have some of the most expensive power charges on the planet, thanks to their embrace of renewable energy.

Jeez their energy secter is so buggered up they have to buy french nuclear power so they don't have shut the place down

The germans are not the people to look at when trying to convince others of the benefits of the cost of renewable energy.

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Re: Renewables save Germans $8.5bn a year
Reply #2 - Sep 6^th, 2013 at 11:54am

Quote:

“Suggesting that renewables will let us phase rapidly off fossil fuels in the United States, China, India, or the world as a whole is almost the equivalent of believing in the Easter Bunny and [the] Tooth Fairy.”

Jim Hansen - Father of global warming.

http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/23/jim-hansen-presses-the-climate-case...

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Re: Renewables save Germans $8.5bn a year
Reply #3 - Sep 6^th, 2013 at 12:01pm

BigOl64 wrote on Sep 5^th, 2013 at 11:30am:

Does some idiot's opinion pass for facts these days in the greens supporters camp?

The box heads have some of the most expensive power charges on the planet, thanks to their embrace of renewable energy.

Jeez their energy secter is so buggered up they have to buy french nuclear power so they don't have shut the place down

The germans are not the people to look at when trying to convince others of the benefits of the cost of renewable energy.

So who do we look at? The Japanese nuclear energy experts perhaps? Lol

Perhaps the USA?

Are you aware that the words biggest exporting nation s Germany? Even bigger than china which is ranked second in the world.

Not bad for a action tat pays high wages, has low working hour weeks and high electrical power costs.

So high in fact that they are similar to pathetic little Australia, the worlds biggest per capita CO2 emitter.

You haven't really thought this one through carefully ave you?

You must feel publicly embarrassed at the moment.

Keep at it though. A little bit reading and basic research and you will hopefully be able to enter this forum a little less intellectually defenseless

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Re: Renewables save Germans $8.5bn a year
Reply #4 - Sep 6^th, 2013 at 12:10pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Sep 6^th, 2013 at 12:01pm:

So high in fact that they are similar to pathetic little Australia,

the worlds biggest per capita CO2 emitter.

Yes that's the only way to scare the general public isn't it.

Using economic jargon called per capita.

Australia doesn't even emit 1.5% of ALL manmade CO2 emissions.

We're not even in the top ten in the world.

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2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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Re: Renewables save Germans $8.5bn a year
Reply #5 - Sep 6^th, 2013 at 12:22pm

Ajax wrote on Sep 6^th, 2013 at 12:10pm:

Chimp_Logic wrote on Sep 6^th, 2013 at 12:01pm:

So high in fact that they are similar to pathetic little Australia,

the worlds biggest per capita CO2 emitter.

Yes that's the only way to scare the general public isn't it.

Using economic jargon called per capita.

Australia doesn't even emit 1.5% of ALL manmade CO2 emissions.

We're not even in the top ten in the world.

Out of 195+ nations in the world, Australia is ranked 17th on a gross CO2 emission basis. Utterly Disgraceful for a nation of only 22 million people. (And we don't even manufacture anything significant for export)

Do you think china or India should set themselves goals of matching Australia's world record per capita CO2 emissions?

Or are Australians the only people allowed this level of per capita CO2 emissions? I hope you're not a racist.

And seeing as Australia has one of the most ideal regions for solar energy capture and usage, the story becomes even more pathetic

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Re: Renewables save Germans $8.5bn a year
Reply #6 - Sep 6^th, 2013 at 12:43pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Sep 6^th, 2013 at 12:22pm:

Out of 195+ nations in the world, Australia is ranked 17th on a gross CO2 emission basis. Utterly Disgraceful for a nation of only 22 million people. (And we don't even manufacture anything significant for export)

Do you want to go back to living in caves then.....????

You first, set the example and I'll see how you fair and decide later.

Quote:

Do you think china or India should set themselves goals of matching Australia's world record per capita CO2 emissions?

Why not, they should be entitled to live just like we do.

Quote:

Or are Australians the only people allowed this level of per capita CO2 emissions? I hope you're not a racist.

You said we are 17th in the world, you'll notice that after the top three or so, manmade CO2 emissions really drop off.

Quote:

And seeing as Australia has one of the most ideal regions for solar energy capture and usage, the story becomes even more pathetic

I'm not against clean energy provided its as cheap as fossil fuels.

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Re: Renewables save Germans $8.5bn a year
Reply #7 - Sep 6^th, 2013 at 12:46pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Sep 6^th, 2013 at 12:01pm:

BigOl64 wrote on Sep 5^th, 2013 at 11:30am:

Does some idiot's opinion pass for facts these days in the greens supporters camp?

The box heads have some of the most expensive power charges on the planet, thanks to their embrace of renewable energy.

Jeez their energy secter is so buggered up they have to buy french nuclear power so they don't have shut the place down

The germans are not the people to look at when trying to convince others of the benefits of the cost of renewable energy.

So who do we look at? The Japanese nuclear energy experts perhaps? Lol

Perhaps the USA?

Are you aware that the words biggest exporting nation s Germany? Even bigger than china which is ranked second in the world.

Not bad for a action tat pays high wages, has low working hour weeks and high electrical power costs.

So high in fact that they are similar to pathetic little Australia, the worlds biggest per capita CO2 emitter.

You haven't really thought this one through carefully ave you?

You must feel publicly embarrassed at the moment.

Keep at it though. A little bit reading and basic research and you will hopefully be able to enter this forum a little less intellectually defenseless

Hang on a tick

None of your argument that Im supposed to be all embarrassed about, has anything to do with what I said You have just gone off on your own little rant about a series of facts that not only do not counter my argument but have nothing at all to do with my argument.

So am I embarrased, no, but you should be

The germans import nuclear power from france, because they shut down their own nuclear plants

The germans have some seriously expensive power, subsidising renewables will do that

Notice, nothing about japan, usa or exports, china, wages, per capita CO outputs, nothing at all about those things.

Well done Grin

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Re: Renewables save Germans $8.5bn a year
Reply #8 - Sep 6^th, 2013 at 12:53pm

Ajax wrote on Sep 6^th, 2013 at 12:43pm: