Chimp_Logic wrote on Sep 8^th, 2013 at 12:10am:



I don't know where you were hiding today but the rest of us exerted the priviledges of a DEMOCRACY.  you can keep your paranoid delusions elsewhere and preferably under control with medication.

Come on Pauline, you can do it!

Chimp_Logic wrote on Sep 8^th, 2013 at 12:10am:


I think you are the one with delusions.

We have an Ochlocracy.  The minority that pay the majority of the cost of Govt are in effect slaves to the majority that pay the minority of the cost of Govt.

Ours is indeed closer to your socialist utopia than to any Corporatocracy.

The corporates bow to the Govt and the Govt is of the people and it's just that the majority exploit the success of a minority which is why it's not a democracy but an
Ochlocracy.

Occasionally like today, the majority sees the light and works out that other people's money does have a limit...........

Upset results rock Abbott's Senate plan      

    by: Christian Kerr
    From: The Australian
    September 08, 2013


TONY Abbott seems set to face an uphill battle steering his agenda through the Senate.    

In upset results, Clive Palmer's Palmer United Party may have taken Senate places in both Queensland and Tasmania.

Independent Nick Xenophon appears sure to be returned from South Australia, while Family First's Bob Day may well have claimed the final position from the state.

The Palmer win in Tasmania and Mr Day's victory have robbed the Coalition of third Senate spot wins they hope for in the two states.

In a surprise outcome Green Sarah Hanson-Young may be returned in South Australia at the expense of "faceless man" and giant of the Labor Right Don Farrell.

The Greens may also have increased their representation with a second senator in Victoria.   


Early results suggest one of the micro-parties, the Australian Motoring Enthusiasts, may have won the last position in Victoria.

Another micro-party that almost broke through at the 2010 poll, the libertarian Liberal Democratic Party, could take a seat.

Results were not available from Western Australia at the time of writing, but they are expected to split three to the Coalition, two to Labor and one to the Greens.

This scenario would put the Coalition with 33 votes in the Senate, short of the 39 needed to control the 76-member chamber.

Labor would have 26 and the Greens nine, also denying them control of the upper house.

That will make the crossbenchers - John Madigan from the Democratic Labour Party, not up for re-election at this poll, Senator Xenophon, Mr Day, David Leyonhjen from the LPD, the Palmer candidates, former rugby league great Glenn Lazarus and Tasmanian Jacqui Lambie, and Motoring candidate Ricky Muir - key to controlling the Senate.

Mr Day is a former Liberal Party officeholder and donor who defaults towards economic rationalists. Mr Leyonhjen will swing the same way. This could open conflict between the more populist crossbenchers.

But while the process may be tortuous, the way is open for the new prime minister to negotiate his platform through.

I feel vindicated here. I started a thread about the farcical nature of Senate voting before the election and it is interesting - and rather disturbing - to see just how right I am.

It is a farce that parties we haven't heard of have probably got elected to the Senate.

I've been looking over the Senate results on the ABC website and here is the dross that are currently listed as having won a seat in the Senate:

• NSW: Liberal Democratic Party.
• South Australia: Family First Party
• Victoria: Australian Motoring Enthusiasts Party
• Western Australia: Australian Sports Party

I doubt these parties have much more than half a quota of primary votes between them.

(In addition, the Palmer United Party are listed as having won seats in Queensland and Tasmania, but I do not count them here because they have polled strongly enough overall to merit election IMO. Xenophon is not counted here either because he polled well over a quota of primary votes.)

Keating called the Senate "unrepresentative swill". Never have his words rung so true as they have with this vote. Minor parties should not be elected based on a lottery, as has clearly happened in NSW; the "Liberal Democrats" won group A on the NSW ballot while the "Liberal and Nationals" group were buried in Group Y.

If ever there's a case to abolish ticket voting, it was eloquently made with this result. I hope both major parties learn a lesson from this. The Liberals in particular should feel aggrieved given that these results have probably cost them seats. The sooner we replace the Senate voting with a simpler system, the better off we will all be.

The system I would like to see abolishes below the line voting, abolishes group tickets, and replaces the above the line vote with optional preferential voting for six parties or more.

The new Senate ballot would look like this:

• List PARTIES in a vertical (not horizontal) list on the left in a large font with boxes that can be numbered. Parties can also be independents.
• A dividing line down the middle separates the parties from the candidate list.
• On the right the parties list their first four candidates (or eight candidates in a double dissolution election). If these lists are a unity ticket from multiple parties (such as happens with the Coalition in some states), the party affiliation is also listed in parentheses. These candidate lists are only listed for information purposes and cannot be voted on individually because they have no boxes.

To vote, number six party boxes or more. This is optional preferential voting.

John Smith wrote on Sep 7^th, 2013 at 11:55pm:


The new opposition will not have Murdoch protecting it or covering up for bad decisions.

matty wrote on Sep 8^th, 2013 at 12:19am:


Negotiations between Pauline and Tony will be very interesting. Matty's heart will be torn.