Australian Politics Forum - Carbon tax is to blame for labors defeat

freediver

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Re: Carbon tax is to blame for labors defeat
Reply #30 - Sep 15^th, 2013 at 10:00am

I don't think it was the carbon tax itself. I think it was the process behind it.

I still think Abbott will keep the tax. It could work out quite well for him. He gets to keep the most economically rational mechanism for reducing GHG emissions. He gets to nullify the biggest criticism the left can throw at him. He gets to sink the boot into the microparties and independents and blame them for not getting his way and refusing to bow down to his glorious man date. We could end up with a carbon tax we cannot get rid of, but that neither major party is willing to claim ownership of.

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buzzanddidj

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Re: Carbon tax is to blame for labors defeat
Reply #31 - Sep 15^th, 2013 at 10:28am

RightSadFred wrote on Sep 15^th, 2013 at 9:59am:

buzzanddidj wrote on Sep 15^th, 2013 at 9:45am:

Gillard - and her government - were drawn to a major strategic error in letting the Abbott opposition "get away with" tagging the interim, fixed price phase of the
Emissions Trading Scheme
as a "carbon tax"

( ... I believe Gillard raised this in the Guardian essay ?)

The Abbott opposition capitalised - VERY successfully - on the electorates ignorance and/or confusion on carbon pricing schemes

The very fact the Abbott opposition "got away with" telling the electorate ( ... and quite a few posters in this forum) that a Carbon Tax
and an
Emissions Trading Scheme
are the SAME THING - just CONFIRMS this

buzzanddidj

A turd is a turd whether its a fixed turd or a floating turd.

See what I MEAN ?

"Whether it’s a fixed tax or a floating tax, (Rudd's floating-price emissions trading scheme) is still a tax."

Tony Abbott on Monday, July 15, 2013

FALSE

( ... not that it MATTERS - the electorate BOUGHT it - it's too LATE)

http://www.politifact.com.au/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jul/19/tony-abbott/ta...

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49016 At my desk.	Re: Carbon tax is to blame for labors defeat Reply #32 - Sep 15^th, 2013 at 10:38am Interesting logic from Abbott there. If we accept that, then Julia went into the last election promising a carbon tax.
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buzzanddidj

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Re: Carbon tax is to blame for labors defeat
Reply #33 - Sep 15^th, 2013 at 3:10pm

John Smith wrote on Sep 15^th, 2013 at 9:53am:

.... mandates aren't real. They are a fancy word put up by politicians to try and get their way.

This was brought up on this morning's "INSIDERS"

Should winning an election - by a couple of percentage points - give a "green light" to every policy
in party's manifesto ?

Not EVERYONE votes - one way, or another - for the SAME REASONS

And what of the substantial percentage of LibNat
supporters in this election that SUPPORT the ETS ?

The MOST bizarre of post-election statements MUST go to Tony Abbott's
"she's a good girl" -

Julie Bishop

, who told us her party's election win was a "referendum on the ETS"

As a lawyer, her apparent definition of "referendum" - in regard to the Australian Constitution - is even
MORE BIZARRE

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'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.
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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Carbon tax is to blame for labors defeat Reply #34 - Sep 15^th, 2013 at 3:23pm Mandate or not, once the Senate changes, I would like to see the Government refresh workplace relations in Australia. There needs to be more flexibility and competitive edge applied to assist economic growth. That would be a welcome move by me.
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Re: Carbon tax is to blame for labors defeat
Reply #35 - Sep 15^th, 2013 at 4:45pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 15^th, 2013 at 3:23pm:

Mandate or not, once the Senate changes, I would like to see the Government refresh workplace relations in Australia.

There needs to be more flexibility and competitive edge applied to assist economic growth.

That would be a welcome move by me.

Workchoices?

That's dead, buried, then resumed and cremated.

Or did the conservatives tell another lie.

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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Carbon tax is to blame for labors defeat Reply #36 - Sep 15^th, 2013 at 4:48pm Workplace relations encompasses many things. There is a lot of refreshing of the workplace laws to be done in Australia to introduce some much needed flexibility.
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buzzanddidj

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Re: Carbon tax is to blame for labors defeat
Reply #37 - Sep 15^th, 2013 at 7:32pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 15^th, 2013 at 3:23pm:

Mandate or not, once the Senate changes, I would like to see the Government "refresh workplace relations" in Australia.

The stripping away of one hundred years of hard earned workers rights and entitlements is NOT a "workplace reform"

AUSTRALIANS

take kindly to - DESPITE the tedious RANTS of business groups and a small FOREIGN labour contingent

A

POWER DRUNK

former prime minister - with control of both houses of parliament - was

tarred and feathered

by the electorate for forcing HIS ( ... and employer groups) version of
"reform"
on Australian workers and their dependents

If an Australian employer and employee want to come to an agreement on pay and conditions ABOVE AWARD - there is NOTHING stopping them from doing so under current workplace law

*mental note
beware of strange conservatives - bearing "reform"

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Andrei.Hicks Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23818 Carlsbad, CA Gender:	Re: Carbon tax is to blame for labors defeat Reply #38 - Sep 15^th, 2013 at 7:38pm The rant of someone completely ignorant of economics and business competitve edge.
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Dnarever

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Re: Carbon tax is to blame for labors defeat
Reply #39 - Sep 15^th, 2013 at 8:50pm

buzzanddidj wrote on Sep 15^th, 2013 at 10:28am:

"Whether it’s a fixed tax or a floating tax, (Rudd's floating-price emissions trading scheme) is still a tax."

Tony Abbott on Monday, July 15, 2013

FALSE

http://www.politifact.com.au/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jul/19/tony-abbott/ta...

Did he really say that ???

Was it a lie or is he stupid ?????

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buzzanddidj

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Re: Carbon tax is to blame for labors defeat
Reply #40 - Sep 15^th, 2013 at 9:55pm

freediver wrote on Sep 15^th, 2013 at 10:00am:

I still think Abbott will keep the tax.

Abbott ought to "grow a pair" - and 'fess-up - that his scare campaign on carbon pricing was JUST THAT

It's past it's "use by" date as a political and election tool ( ... a very effective tool, at that) - and has no further purpose

Carbon tax inflation fears evaporate

July 24, 2013
Tim Colebatch

Some wrecking ball that was!

Australia’s first year with a carbon tax has ended with inflation so low that it was only the carbon tax that kept inflation from falling out of the Reserve Bank’s target range.

The Bureau of Statistics reports that in the year to June, consumer prices rose 2.4 per cent on the raw data, 2.3 per cent after seasonal adjustment, and 2.2 per cent on the trimmed mean measure, which strips out the biggest price rises and falls to define underlying inflation.

That is low inflation by any measure. It shows the Coalition’s scare campaign against the carbon tax was just a scare campaign.

Bear in mind that before the carbon tax came in, Treasury estimated that it would lift the CPI by 0.7 per cent, and underlying inflation by 0.4 per cent. If that’s right – and some analysts looking at the data think the tax’s impact was even less than that – then without the carbon tax, the CPI would have risen 1.7 per cent, and the trimmed mean by 1.8 per cent.

Inflation is now running at low levels, domestic demand has stopped growing and wage growth has decelerated markedly. Away from the petrol pump, many firms will opt to absorb rising import costs rather than pass them on and risk losing business.

A rate cut Tuesday week should be a pretty safe bet. It would still leave Australian interest rates well above those in the rest of the West, but would probably give the currency markets a helpful nudge to sell the dollar down a bit more - as the Reserve would prefer.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/carbon-tax-inflation-fears-evaporate-...

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Peter Freedman

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Re: Carbon tax is to blame for labors defeat
Reply #41 - Sep 15^th, 2013 at 10:17pm

Andrei.Hicks wrote on Sep 15^th, 2013 at 3:23pm:

Mandate or not, once the Senate changes, I would like to see the Government refresh workplace relations in Australia.

There needs to be more flexibility and competitive edge applied to assist economic growth.

That would be a welcome move by me.

So Andrei thinks it is okay for a politician to promise one thing to win power, then do the opposite once elected.

So Gillard's about face on the carbon tax was morally okay by you, Andrei? Or do you judge politicians by different standards according to which party they represent?

I don't give a stuff what is welcome by you. You don't live here.

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Andrei.Hicks

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Re: Carbon tax is to blame for labors defeat
Reply #42 - Sep 16^th, 2013 at 12:13am

No. I currently choose to live in Europe for a myriad of reasons both career and personal.

Nonetheless I am an Australian born citizen which makes my opinion more valid than some sheep fondling blow in with socialist bludging tendencies.

On the pension courtesy of the Aussie taxpayer no doubt like every other waster from those sh1t irrelevant islands of yours.

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 40747 Gender:	Re: Carbon tax is to blame for labors defeat Reply #43 - Sep 16^th, 2013 at 7:59am labor is to blame for labors defeat. not that they'ld ever hint at that.
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longweekend58

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Re: Carbon tax is to blame for labors defeat
Reply #44 - Sep 16^th, 2013 at 9:24am

John Smith wrote on Sep 14^th, 2013 at 9:23am:

stryder wrote on Sep 14^th, 2013 at 9:11am:

John Smith wrote on Sep 14^th, 2013 at 8:52am:

stryder wrote on Sep 14^th, 2013 at 8:45am:

I know there will be time ahead for labor figures and historians to debate why the australian labor party was defeated comprehensively last saturday, but I believe the no carbon tax pledge is one of the many factors that contributed to labors defeat, hands down along with other factors such as the boat people issue, spending taxpayers money into many wasteful policies and programs and the debt were accumulating, the shady and dark relationship between the unions and the labor party itself revealed through the craig thommo affair and others like the backstabbing nature of the ALP leadership itself

yes, it was one of MANY factors ... but it was not the reason in itself.

If the only thing labor had done wrong was to introduce the carbon tax, and there were no other issues, the libs would never have won the election ...

And yet stupidity still runs wild in the ALP still as this week Labor member Mark Dreyfus has declared his party will oppose Tony Abbotts attempts to scrap the carbon tax, by stating that he got a mandate to defend good policy ? I MEAN HELLO, LABOR JUST GOT ITS @RSE KICKED LAST SATURDAY BY THE ELECTORATE AND HE SAYS THAT Grin

Does labor want to learn from its mistakes or just be as dismissive of its mistakes like richard dreyfus and as you seem to be John smith ???

I'm not dismissive of anything, I just don't believe that Abbott won a mandate to do what he likes .. the people voted for a change in government, they also voted for a senate that would stop Abbott railroading his policies through ... why do you pretend that only the vote in the house of representatives matters and the vote in the senate can be dismissed ?

one of your own - Keating- said exactly that. r do you really want to maintain that a clown that got just 12000 votes is representative of the electorate while another that received 110,000 did not win?

the senate has a problem with NOT being particularly representative.

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