Australian Politics Forum - spineless apologetics

Karnal

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 96597

Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #105 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 11:24am

freediver wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 9:32am:

Quote:

I make no excuses for those nations and their laws, BV. I merely recognise that it is their right to create and unfortunately impose those punishments. It is terrible but I also recognise I have no right or ability to criticise them.

Do you think that is spineless?

Ah, my friend, it is what your good Henry Kissinger would call mutual self-interest. It is what your good German chancellor Mr Bismark would call realpolitik

Yes, it is why your good US president Woodrow Wilson started League of Nations. But is why successive US presidents refused to join. It is why your good Teddy Roosevelt said to speak softly, but carry a big stick.

You see? Been here 200 years, invented a stick. Spineless apologetics is the foundation for International Relations, isn't it.

Gud is great, no?

Back to top

IP Logged

polite_gandalf

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 20027
Canberra
Gender: male

Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #106 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 12:26pm

freediver wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 9:32am:

You are pretending.

Of course I am Roll Eyes

I gave a lengthy explanation of what I understand what Brian meant - based on all his comments around that post. I invite Brian to point me to anywhere that I misinterpreted:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 25^th, 2013 at 8:22am:

Brian has made it very clear what exactly he was talking about - the problem is tarring all muslims with the same brush. I think what he means (and correct me if I'm wrong Brian), is he doesn't have a right to say "all Iranians/Afghanis/Saudis etc collectively are evil because their countries have draconian laws on apostasy etc" He is not talking about just the regimes - which it seems clear he would criticise - but the entire people of those nations. Proof of this is the fact that he has mentioned that he will have no problem condemning individuals for being backward/oppressive etc. Its just that he refuses to overgeneralise and say "all muslims are evil" for the actions of a few.

Back to top

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

IP Logged

\|dev\|null Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4434 Gender:	Re: spineless apologetics Reply #107 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 12:33pm Squirming, squirming, like the fat worm you are FD!
Back to top	"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013. "we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions." Freediver, 2007. IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Online

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49433
At my desk.

Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #108 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 12:36pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 12:26pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 9:32am:

You are pretending.

Of course I am Roll Eyes

I gave a lengthy explanation of what I understand what Brian meant - based on all his comments around that post. I invite Brian to point me to anywhere that I misinterpreted:

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 25^th, 2013 at 8:22am:

Brian has made it very clear what exactly he was talking about - the problem is tarring all muslims with the same brush. I think what he means (and correct me if I'm wrong Brian), is he doesn't have a right to say "all Iranians/Afghanis/Saudis etc collectively are evil because their countries have draconian laws on apostasy etc" He is not talking about just the regimes - which it seems clear he would criticise - but the entire people of those nations. Proof of this is the fact that he has mentioned that he will have no problem condemning individuals for being backward/oppressive etc. Its just that he refuses to overgeneralise and say "all muslims are evil" for the actions of a few.

So Brian did not mean what he actually said because what he actually said was spineless?

And unless Brian corrects you by pointing out that he did intend what he said in all it's spineless glory, then you are free to substitute whatever meaning you want for what he actually said?

We have now come full circle. We have a Muslim apologising for the spineless apologetics of the Muslim apologist.

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: spineless apologetics Reply #109 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 12:39pm go away FD. Could you be any more petty minded?
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49433 At my desk.	Re: spineless apologetics Reply #110 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 12:42pm Aren't you interested to know whether the spinelessness goes beyond the surface? Is this the same mental gymnastics you go through to discover your alternative interpretations of what Muhammed really meant?
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

\|dev\|null Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4434 Gender:	Re: spineless apologetics Reply #111 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 12:42pm polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 12:39pm: go away FD. Could you be any more petty minded? Worms are petty minded!
Back to top	"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013. "we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions." Freediver, 2007. IP Logged

Brian Ross Gold Member Offline Representative of me Posts: 42431	Re: spineless apologetics Reply #112 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 8:26pm Waiting, waiting, waiting, FD. Your spine appears to have turned to water.
Back to top	Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... IP Logged

freediver Gold Member Online www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 49433 At my desk.	Re: spineless apologetics Reply #113 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 9:29pm Gandalf agrees with me about what you posted Brian. BTW, do you agree with Gandalf that you really meant something completely different to what you actually said?
Back to top	People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words. IP Logged

Brian Ross

Gold Member

Offline

Representative of me

Posts: 42431

Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #114 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 10:46pm

freediver wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 9:29pm:

Gandalf agrees with me about what you posted Brian.

BTW, do you agree with Gandalf that you really meant something completely different to what you actually said?

I meant what I said in the context it was said, FD.

Gandalf got it basically right. Your prejudices I suspect prevent you from understanding it.

Tell me, FD, did you mean what you said here?

Are you willing to extend that sentiment to Muslims? Imagine if we substituted "Muslim" for "Abo":

freediver wrote on Jun 15^th, 2007 at 11:23am:

In this thread:

http://ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1181614826/45#45

DT, AN and sprint implied (or stated explicitly) that certain races are inherently (ie genetically) inferior and have a lower IQ. This is not true and is based on prejudice rather than evidence. Where IQ differences have been detected, they have been small and attributable to cultural influences on the test. They have always been insignificant compared to the variation in IQ within a group.

Hi freediver - to repeat my question.
How do YOU account for the list of standards of living I posted ?

By referring you to Jared Diamond's book, "Guns, Germs and Steel"

Because they are the second most stupid race on earth. I wasnt going to mention Muslim's first but now that you've mentioned it- The Muslim people...are the most backwards people on earth.

My family employs Muslim people. They are some of the best employees. Your claim is based on prejudice, not fact.

Nothing wrong with recognising a gene that somehow proves that Muslims's are more prone to violence.

But it doesn't prove that.

The European, Muslim and African races are separated by thousands of years of evolution. Pretty big gap between us.

They are not separated, and thousands of years is not significant in evolutionary terms.

I don't particularly think Muslims have very civilised genes. IQ differences...

What IQ differences? Are you just making this up DT?

Get the point I'm making FD?

I don't think you're necessarily an evil person but I do believe you're bigoted. You can recognise racism when it's directed towards Aborigines but you seem to have a blind spot when you're being bigoted towards Muslims... Roll Eyes

Back to top

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

IP Logged

Soren

Gold Member

Offline

Posts: 25654
Gender: male

Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #115 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 11:07pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 10:46pm:

Get the point I'm making FD?

I don't think you're necessarily an evil person but I do believe you're bigoted. You can recognise racism when it's directed towards Aborigines but you seem to have a blind spot when you're being bigoted towards Muslims... Roll Eyes

Being an Aborigine is not an ideology you subscribe to freely - or not.
Islam is.

I am not at all surprised that the very essence of the difference has escaped you and you rush to unthinking, po-faced posturing.

Back to top

IP Logged

Brian Ross

Gold Member

Offline

Representative of me

Posts: 42431

Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #116 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 11:31pm

Soren wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 11:07pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 10:46pm:

Get the point I'm making FD?

I don't think you're necessarily an evil person but I do believe you're bigoted. You can recognise racism when it's directed towards Aborigines but you seem to have a blind spot when you're being bigoted towards Muslims... Roll Eyes

Being an Aborigine is not an ideology you subscribe to freely - or not.
Islam is.

I am not at all surprised that the very essence of the difference has escaped you and you rush to unthinking, po-faced posturing.

You appear to have problems with the concept of a "comparison", Soren. Muslims are people, just as Aborigines are. Neither deserves to be treated unfairly. I know you can't understand that concept as you're a bigot but perhaps FD can? Roll Eyes

Back to top

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

IP Logged

Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96597	Re: spineless apologetics Reply #117 - Sep 27^th, 2013 at 12:56am The old boy a bigot? Never! He hates all the tinted races equally. Well, their culture, anyway. Which just happens to coincide with their level of tintedness. Rich tapestry, innit - as long as it’s not tinted.
Back to top	IP Logged

freediver

Gold Member

Online

www.ozpolitic.com

Posts: 49433
At my desk.

Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #118 - Sep 27^th, 2013 at 12:23pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 10:46pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 9:29pm:

Gandalf agrees with me about what you posted Brian.

BTW, do you agree with Gandalf that you really meant something completely different to what you actually said?

I meant what I said in the context it was said, FD.

Gandalf got it basically right. Your prejudices I suspect prevent you from understanding it.

So you meant exactly what you said, yet Gandalf is also right in insisting you meant something completely different because what you posted is spineless if taken at face value?

Can you tell the difference between what you posted and Gandalf's interpretation of what you 'really' meant?

Back to top

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

IP Logged

Karnal

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 96597

Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #119 - Sep 27^th, 2013 at 5:08pm

freediver wrote on Sep 27^th, 2013 at 12:23pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 10:46pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 9:29pm:

Gandalf agrees with me about what you posted Brian.

BTW, do you agree with Gandalf that you really meant something completely different to what you actually said?

I meant what I said in the context it was said, FD.

Gandalf got it basically right. Your prejudices I suspect prevent you from understanding it.

So you meant exactly what you said, yet Gandalf is also right in insisting you meant something completely different because what you posted is spineless if taken at face value?

Can you tell the difference between what you posted and Gandalf's interpretation of what you 'really' meant?

Gee, this is getting really hard, FD. I think I need some sort of maths training to keep up.

Couldn't we just stick to the Muselmen?

Back to top

IP Logged