Australian Politics Forum - spineless apologetics

freediver

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1065 - Dec 11^th, 2014 at 5:56pm

|dev|null wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 5:47pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 5:27pm:

Freedom, democracy, human rights - this system of values is superior to all others. This perspective is optional, but also entirely correct and appropriate. You chose the correct thread to suggest we should feel shame in this certainty.

Your freedom does not include freedom to worship.
Your democracy does not respect democratic rights for those you disagree with.
Your human rights aren't extended to Muslims.

You make a mockery of those concepts. For you, they are not universal, for you they are selective and only to be extended to those who you believe support your views. Grin

HB, freedom does not mean freedom from criticism for the stupid things you say and do. But I can appreciate that as a devoted apologist for Islam, you are compelled to misunderstand such basic concepts.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Soren

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1066 - Dec 11^th, 2014 at 7:20pm

Karnal wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 4:46pm:

Soren wrote on Dec 8^th, 2014 at 6:56pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 8^th, 2014 at 2:58pm:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 8^th, 2014 at 2:22pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 8^th, 2014 at 8:22am:

But there’s little proof for it. I’d say the opposite: the most democratic societies come from the most brutal oppression. Democracy does not just happen. It’s almost always fought for.

Australia is an exception.

It is if you dismiss the massacres and cultural genocide of the Aborigines.

Karnal wrote on Dec 8^th, 2014 at 12:41pm:

Are you really suggesting the Spanish did not destroy the Aztec and Incan empires? You'd have to be the first.

Indeed he would.

FD's actually posted some good, intelligent posts here. I'm pleasantly surprised. I don't have to agree with them.

FD comes from the default position of liberal democracy - what the Yanks call a republic. He measures all other political systems throughout history according to this model. It's a rather Hegelian perspective (and very Eurocentric).

The problem with such a teleological point of view is that it measures the past according to the present. It measures other societies according to our own. Even a brief look at history highlights completely completely different mindsets to our own. Looking at past and traditional cultures from a modern, individualistic paradigm completely misses the point.

And what other perspective can you have, besides your own?

None other, old boy, but the smug, arrogant perspective that your own system of values is inherently superior to all others without question is optional.

It is superior AFTER questioning.

After all, only the West questions itself. Islam commands that it not be questions.

If there is anything of supreme value coming out of the Jewish inheritance, as well as the Greek inheritance, it is the self-critical approach. You don't have it among Aborigines, nature worshippers generally or red indians - or other Indians for that matter.

Islam is alone among the monotheisthic religion lacking a self-critical bone in its body of doctrines. Criticism is forbidden.

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Brian Ross

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1067 - Dec 11^th, 2014 at 7:25pm

freediver wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 5:56pm:

|dev|null wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 5:47pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 5:27pm:

Freedom, democracy, human rights - this system of values is superior to all others. This perspective is optional, but also entirely correct and appropriate. You chose the correct thread to suggest we should feel shame in this certainty.

Your freedom does not include freedom to worship.
Your democracy does not respect democratic rights for those you disagree with.
Your human rights aren't extended to Muslims.

You make a mockery of those concepts. For you, they are not universal, for you they are selective and only to be extended to those who you believe support your views. Grin

HB, freedom does not mean freedom from criticism for the stupid things you say and do. But I can appreciate that as a devoted apologist for Islam, you are compelled to misunderstand such basic concepts.

As usual, FD you like to make pronouncements but you will not hold yourself accountable for them. Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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Karnal

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1068 - Dec 12^th, 2014 at 12:12am

freediver wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 5:27pm:

Freedom, democracy, human rights - this system of values is superior to all others. This perspective is optional, but also entirely correct and appropriate. You chose the correct thread to suggest we should feel shame in this certainty.

Now now, FD, no one has the right to not be offended, you know. The 2007 FD was not nearly so smug and sure.

The 2014 FD thinks Iraq is the next South Korea and Muslims silence decent white people.

I, for one, would fight to the death for FD’s right to feel no shame in this certainty, even if he sounds like a Nazi speech.

Guten essen. Eine sheisen, oder zwei?

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freediver

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1069 - Jan 11^th, 2015 at 5:04pm

Brian on how Charlie Hebdo brought it all on themselves:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 10^th, 2015 at 12:07am:

They obviously thought they were invulnerable and paid the price unfortunately. Complacency and arrogance was their problem. Rather like yours is, Soren. Roll Eyes

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 10^th, 2015 at 10:06pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 10^th, 2015 at 7:00pm:

Hang on, are you saying a satirical magazine should not publish cartoons about religion?

Of course not. However, they shouldn't expect they'll get no response from their targets either, K. Some will bring lawsuits, some will bring guns. They had more than sufficient warning, don't you think? I mean a firebomb is a pretty effective calling card IMO.

Gadalf still trying to stand on both sides of the fence at once. Even Muhammed's scrotum is wacist:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 9^th, 2015 at 11:32pm:

They publish cartoons using negative racial stereotypes (muslims are always hook-nosed arabs - usually frothing at the mouth and looking generally sinister) and depicting the prophet in a negative light. I shouldn't have to explain how a shot of the prophet, naked, from behind complete with scrotum looking like a prostitute is offensive to muslims - or do I?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Soren Gold Member Offline Posts: 25654 Gender:	Re: spineless apologetics Reply #1070 - Jan 11^th, 2015 at 9:32pm Brain is a despicable, spineless fascist. And I use every word advisedly. He is a disgusting, petty, vain and outrageously self-conceited milk monitor who would grind your face in the dirt, given half a chance. A spiteful, resentment-filled ideologue. Let him, encourage him to speak so we can all laugh at him.
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Brian Ross

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1071 - Jan 11^th, 2015 at 10:28pm

Soren wrote on Jan 11^th, 2015 at 9:32pm:

Brain is a despicable, spineless fascist. And I use every word advisedly.
He is a disgusting, petty, vain and outrageously self-conceited milk monitor who would grind your face in the dirt, given half a chance.

A spiteful, resentment-filled ideologue.

Let him, encorage him to speak so we an all laugh at him.

I love you too, Soren. Kiss

As usual, you attack the messenger rather than the message. Your antipathy is showing, Soren. Do you want to put me in the cattle cars with the Muslims? Who'll be next after that, the Jews? Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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|dev|null

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1072 - Jan 12^th, 2015 at 10:59am

freediver wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 5:56pm:

|dev|null wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 5:47pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 5:27pm:

Freedom, democracy, human rights - this system of values is superior to all others. This perspective is optional, but also entirely correct and appropriate. You chose the correct thread to suggest we should feel shame in this certainty.

Your freedom does not include freedom to worship.
Your democracy does not respect democratic rights for those you disagree with.
Your human rights aren't extended to Muslims.

You make a mockery of those concepts. For you, they are not universal, for you they are selective and only to be extended to those who you believe support your views. Grin

HB, freedom does not mean freedom from criticism for the stupid things you say and do. But I can appreciate that as a devoted apologist for Islam, you are compelled to misunderstand such basic concepts.

I enjoy how you describe a position where I have never apologised for anything, Muslim or otherwise, as that of an "apologist" FD.

It just shows how insecure you are that you refuse to recognise that you exclude Muslims from our society simply because you fear them and their beliefs. Grin

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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1073 - Jan 12^th, 2015 at 11:02am

freediver wrote on Jan 11^th, 2015 at 5:04pm:

Brian on how Charlie Hebdo brought it all on themselves:

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 10^th, 2015 at 12:07am:

They obviously thought they were invulnerable and paid the price unfortunately. Complacency and arrogance was their problem. Rather like yours is, Soren. Roll Eyes

Brian Ross wrote on Jan 10^th, 2015 at 10:06pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 10^th, 2015 at 7:00pm:

Hang on, are you saying a satirical magazine should not publish cartoons about religion?

Of course not. However, they shouldn't expect they'll get no response from their targets either, K. Some will bring lawsuits, some will bring guns. They had more than sufficient warning, don't you think? I mean a firebomb is a pretty effective calling card IMO.

Gadalf still trying to stand on both sides of the fence at once. Even Muhammed's scrotum is wacist:

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 9^th, 2015 at 11:32pm:

They publish cartoons using negative racial stereotypes (muslims are always hook-nosed arabs - usually frothing at the mouth and looking generally sinister) and depicting the prophet in a negative light. I shouldn't have to explain how a shot of the prophet, naked, from behind complete with scrotum looking like a prostitute is offensive to muslims - or do I?

Usually it's muslims giving us the good cop bad cop routine.

The god cop says you know what will happen if you draw cartoons, the bad cop will get all butthurt and riot killing people.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Soren

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1074 - Jan 12^th, 2015 at 12:10pm

|dev|null wrote on Jan 12^th, 2015 at 10:59am:

freediver wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 5:56pm:

|dev|null wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 5:47pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 5:27pm:

Freedom, democracy, human rights - this system of values is superior to all others. This perspective is optional, but also entirely correct and appropriate. You chose the correct thread to suggest we should feel shame in this certainty.

Your freedom does not include freedom to worship.
Your democracy does not respect democratic rights for those you disagree with.
Your human rights aren't extended to Muslims.

You make a mockery of those concepts. For you, they are not universal, for you they are selective and only to be extended to those who you believe support your views. Grin

HB, freedom does not mean freedom from criticism for the stupid things you say and do. But I can appreciate that as a devoted apologist for Islam, you are compelled to misunderstand such basic concepts.

I enjoy how you describe a position where I have never apologised for anything, Muslim or otherwise, as that of an "apologist" FD.

It just shows how insecure you are that you refuse to recognise that you exclude Muslims from our society simply because you fear them and their beliefs. Grin

What's not to fear when they kill people over mere cartoons?
Being fearful of what they will do next is the normal response.

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greggerypeccary

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1075 - Jan 12^th, 2015 at 12:27pm

Soren wrote on Jan 12^th, 2015 at 12:10pm:

|dev|null wrote on Jan 12^th, 2015 at 10:59am:

freediver wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 5:56pm:

|dev|null wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 5:47pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 5:27pm:

Freedom, democracy, human rights - this system of values is superior to all others. This perspective is optional, but also entirely correct and appropriate. You chose the correct thread to suggest we should feel shame in this certainty.

Your freedom does not include freedom to worship.
Your democracy does not respect democratic rights for those you disagree with.
Your human rights aren't extended to Muslims.

You make a mockery of those concepts. For you, they are not universal, for you they are selective and only to be extended to those who you believe support your views. Grin

HB, freedom does not mean freedom from criticism for the stupid things you say and do. But I can appreciate that as a devoted apologist for Islam, you are compelled to misunderstand such basic concepts.

I enjoy how you describe a position where I have never apologised for anything, Muslim or otherwise, as that of an "apologist" FD.

It just shows how insecure you are that you refuse to recognise that you exclude Muslims from our society simply because you fear them and their beliefs. Grin

What's not to fear when they kill people over mere cartoons?
Being fearful of what they will do next is the normal response.

Being fearful of terrorists, yes. Sure.

However, being fearful of all Muslims is quite irrational. There's a word for it, actually.

'The term "Islamophobia" was first introduced as a concept in a 1991 Runnymede Trust Report and defined as "unfounded hostility towards Muslims, and therefore fear or dislike of all or most Muslims." '

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freediver

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1076 - Jan 12^th, 2015 at 12:36pm

|dev|null wrote on Jan 12^th, 2015 at 10:59am:

freediver wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 5:56pm:

|dev|null wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 5:47pm:

freediver wrote on Dec 11^th, 2014 at 5:27pm:

Freedom, democracy, human rights - this system of values is superior to all others. This perspective is optional, but also entirely correct and appropriate. You chose the correct thread to suggest we should feel shame in this certainty.

Your freedom does not include freedom to worship.
Your democracy does not respect democratic rights for those you disagree with.
Your human rights aren't extended to Muslims.

You make a mockery of those concepts. For you, they are not universal, for you they are selective and only to be extended to those who you believe support your views. Grin

HB, freedom does not mean freedom from criticism for the stupid things you say and do. But I can appreciate that as a devoted apologist for Islam, you are compelled to misunderstand such basic concepts.

I enjoy how you describe a position where I have never apologised for anything, Muslim or otherwise, as that of an "apologist" FD.

It just shows how insecure you are that you refuse to recognise that you exclude Muslims from our society simply because you fear them and their beliefs. Grin

Would you mind explaining how my freedom does not include the freedom to worship, and all the other idiotic claims you made?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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|dev|null

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1077 - Jan 12^th, 2015 at 12:57pm

Soren wrote on Jan 12^th, 2015 at 12:10pm:

What's not to fear when they kill people over mere cartoons?

Who kills "over mere cartoons"?

Moderate Muslims or Extremist Muslims Soren?

You make no attempt at differentiation. You just persecute ALL Muslims!

Quote:

Being fearful of what they will do next is the normal response.

Who are "they"? Islamists or Moderate Muslims? Again, no effort to differentiate... Grin

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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

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Soren

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1078 - Jan 12^th, 2015 at 1:01pm

|dev|null wrote on Jan 12^th, 2015 at 12:57pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 12^th, 2015 at 12:10pm:

What's not to fear when they kill people over mere cartoons?

Who kills "over mere cartoons"?

Moderate Muslims or Extremist Muslims Soren?

You make no attempt at differentiation. You just persecute ALL Muslims!

Quote:

Being fearful of what they will do next is the normal response.

Who are "they"? Islamists or Moderate Muslims? Again, no effort to differentiate... Grin

How do you tell them apart BEFORE the shooting starts?

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Karnal

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1079 - Jan 12^th, 2015 at 1:11pm

Soren wrote on Jan 12^th, 2015 at 1:01pm:

|dev|null wrote on Jan 12^th, 2015 at 12:57pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 12^th, 2015 at 12:10pm:

What's not to fear when they kill people over mere cartoons?

Who kills "over mere cartoons"?

Moderate Muslims or Extremist Muslims Soren?

You make no attempt at differentiation. You just persecute ALL Muslims!

Quote:

Being fearful of what they will do next is the normal response.

Who are "they"? Islamists or Moderate Muslims? Again, no effort to differentiate... Grin

How do you tell them apart BEFORE the shooting starts?

I'm not sure, old boy.

Is it the guns?

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