Australian Politics Forum - spineless apologetics

Karnal

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1170 - Jan 29^th, 2015 at 10:50pm

Soren wrote on Jan 29^th, 2015 at 9:04pm:

Si fueris Romae, Romano vivito more; si fueris alibi, vivito sicut ibi. "if you are in Rome, live in the Roman way; if you are elsewhere, live as they do there".

Diversity of opinion is such a marvellous thing, no? For FD, the Roman Empire was all about Freeeedom.

For the old boy, it was all about fitting in.

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Soren

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1171 - Jan 29^th, 2015 at 10:54pm

Yadda wrote on Jan 29^th, 2015 at 10:40pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 29^th, 2015 at 9:04pm:

Si fueris Romae, Romano vivito more; si fueris alibi, vivito sicut ibi. "if you are in Rome, live in the Roman way; if you are elsewhere, live as they do there".

Gandy, please put this on the Muslim community's black flag, right under Mohammed's seal. It is for you all to repeat a hundred times every day until you have fully internalised its huge significance.

Don't forget.

LOL

Good advice, wise advice, .....but there is one fatal flaw in such a 'proverb'.

"When in Rome......"
is an infidel proverb, and not an Arabic or ISLAMIC proverb.

Therefore it can be 'rightly' rejected, by 'the moslem', as a corrupt [i.e. an un-ISLAMIC] thought/idea.

This dictum from Ambrose, some 1600 years ago, will be regarded as racist and insensitive today. Insensitivity to local ('Roman') customs is the order of the day today and challenging or opposing that insensitivity is 'racists and divisive'.

Insensitivity to local customs is called 'multiculturalism'.

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Soren

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1172 - Jan 29^th, 2015 at 10:58pm

Karnal wrote on Jan 29^th, 2015 at 10:50pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 29^th, 2015 at 9:04pm:

Si fueris Romae, Romano vivito more; si fueris alibi, vivito sicut ibi. "if you are in Rome, live in the Roman way; if you are elsewhere, live as they do there".

Diversity of opinion is such a marvellous thing, no? For FD, the Roman Empire was all about Freeeedom.

For the old boy, it was all about fitting in.

This is not a quote from me, ijit, it is from a Roman, Ambrose.
You are trying to make a living out of being a hopeless fvkn idiot here, PB. I don't think it's working.

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Soren

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1173 - Jan 29^th, 2015 at 11:01pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Jan 29^th, 2015 at 3:09pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 29^th, 2015 at 9:32am:

You are knowingly distort what I have been saying -none of the great translators were Arab Muslims. They were either Christians, Jews or recent converts to Islam for a quiet life. They were not Arab Muslims. The Arabs, who had Allah's own language, did not learn Greek and Latin or Syriac or other 'inferior' languages.

Sorry S, a complete distortion of what you said - I admit.

Forgiven.

100 Hail Charlies - and don't do it again.

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Karnal

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1174 - Jan 29^th, 2015 at 11:26pm

Soren wrote on Jan 29^th, 2015 at 10:58pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 29^th, 2015 at 10:50pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 29^th, 2015 at 9:04pm:

Si fueris Romae, Romano vivito more; si fueris alibi, vivito sicut ibi. "if you are in Rome, live in the Roman way; if you are elsewhere, live as they do there".

Diversity of opinion is such a marvellous thing, no? For FD, the Roman Empire was all about Freeeedom.

For the old boy, it was all about fitting in.

This is not a quote from me, ijit, it is from a Roman, Ambrose.
You are trying to make a living out of being a hopeless fvkn idiot here, PB. I don't think it's working.

It’s a living. No one has the right to not be offended.

Old boys excepted.

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Soren

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1175 - Jan 29^th, 2015 at 11:36pm

Karnal wrote on Jan 29^th, 2015 at 11:26pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 29^th, 2015 at 10:58pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 29^th, 2015 at 10:50pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 29^th, 2015 at 9:04pm:

Si fueris Romae, Romano vivito more; si fueris alibi, vivito sicut ibi. "if you are in Rome, live in the Roman way; if you are elsewhere, live as they do there".

Diversity of opinion is such a marvellous thing, no? For FD, the Roman Empire was all about Freeeedom.

For the old boy, it was all about fitting in.

This is not a quote from me, ijit, it is from a Roman, Ambrose.
You are trying to make a living out of being a hopeless fvkn idiot here, PB. I don't think it's working.

It’s a living. No one has the right to not be offended.

Old boys excepted.

I picture you as a transgressive who still tucks his jumper in his trousers, 50 years after middle school. You maintain a tradition, PB. Ridiculous, retarded - but someone has to keep it alive. And you are on hand for such things. Always, ever and ever again.

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Karnal

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1176 - Jan 29^th, 2015 at 11:42pm

Soren wrote on Jan 29^th, 2015 at 11:36pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 29^th, 2015 at 11:26pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 29^th, 2015 at 10:58pm:

Karnal wrote on Jan 29^th, 2015 at 10:50pm:

Soren wrote on Jan 29^th, 2015 at 9:04pm:

Si fueris Romae, Romano vivito more; si fueris alibi, vivito sicut ibi. "if you are in Rome, live in the Roman way; if you are elsewhere, live as they do there".

Diversity of opinion is such a marvellous thing, no? For FD, the Roman Empire was all about Freeeedom.

For the old boy, it was all about fitting in.

This is not a quote from me, ijit, it is from a Roman, Ambrose.
You are trying to make a living out of being a hopeless fvkn idiot here, PB. I don't think it's working.

It’s a living. No one has the right to not be offended.

Old boys excepted.

I picture you as a transgressive who still tucks his jumper in his trousers, 50 years after middle school. You maintain a tradition, PB. Ridiculous, retarded - but someone has to keep it alive. And you are on hand for such things. Always, ever and ever again.

Now that’s just the sort of post we need freedom of speech for, dear boy.

Gud is great, no?

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Yadda

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1177 - Jan 30^th, 2015 at 7:11am

freediver wrote on Sep 15^th, 2013 at 6:22pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 15^th, 2013 at 5:39pm:

I make no excuses for those nations and their laws, BV.

I merely recognise that it is their right to create and unfortunately impose those punishments.

It is terrible but I also recognise I have no right or ability to criticise them.

I am neither a member of their religion or a citizen of any of those nations.

“‘Blasphemous’ artwork removed from Paris exhibition,” by David Chazan, the Telegraph, January 28, 2015

The French-Algerian artist, Zoulikha Bouabdellah, withdrew the work from an exhibition in a northern Paris suburb with a large Muslim population after an Islamic group told local authorities it could provoke “uncontrollable, irresponsible incidents”.

Quote:

Sharia France: Artwork violating Islamic blasphemy law removed from Paris exhibition after Muslim threats
Jan 28, 2015 01:53 pm | Robert Spencer

The more the West kowtows to jihadist intimidation and thuggery, the more jihadist intimidation and thuggery it will get.

The Charlie Hebdo jihad massacre is proving to have been a great victory for the jihadists:

now they [moslems] are getting non-Muslims in France and elsewhere to curtail their behavior to conform to Sharia blasphemy laws.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/01/sharia-france-artwork-violating-islamic-blasph...

This is how it starts.

'Bending the knee', to 'the moslem' [who lives among us].

Declaring to the moslem [who lives among us], that we [the people of the host nation] do not wish to offend moslem 'sensibilities'.

So we tell 'the moslem' that we agree, and that we are willing, to refrain from any normal scrutiny or criticism of the 'peaceful faith' which moslems follow.

This is the way that we [the people of the host nation] allow the beginning of the introduction - AND ENFORCEMENT - of ISLAMIC Sharia laws, here, within our own land.

This is the way that we [the people of the host nation] allow ourselves to be constrained by ISLAMIC/Sharia blasphemy laws, here, within our own land.

!!!

And soon, almost everyone in our society agrees;

It is 'easier', to voluntarily, not offend the moslems, who live among us.

It is 'easier', for us to obey the principles and the constraints contained within ISLAMIC law, .....rather than to assert and exercise our own laws, and it is 'easier', to individually refrain from asserting and exercising those freedoms which our own laws protect, .....rather than risk enraging those who live among us.

Then, soon, we, ourselves, decide to pass laws [within our own body of law] which make it unlawful to offend against ISLAMIC/Sharia blasphemy laws !!!!!

THIS IS HOW IT STARTS.

THIS IS HOW OUR OWN COWARDICE, LEADS TO OUR OWN ENSLAVEMENT.

cods, and co, take note.

The secret of Happiness is Freedom, and the secret of Freedom is Courage.

Thucydides, Pericles' Funeral Oration

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1178 - Jan 30^th, 2015 at 7:27am

“‘Blasphemous’ artwork removed from Paris exhibition,” by David Chazan, the Telegraph, January 28, 2015

The French-Algerian artist, Zoulikha Bouabdellah, withdrew the work from an exhibition in a northern Paris suburb with a large Muslim population after an Islamic group told local authorities it could provoke “uncontrollable, irresponsible incidents”.

Yadda wrote on Jan 30^th, 2015 at 7:11am:

Quote:

Sharia France: Artwork violating Islamic blasphemy law removed from Paris exhibition after Muslim threats
Jan 28, 2015 01:53 pm | Robert Spencer

The more the West kowtows to jihadist intimidation and thuggery, the more jihadist intimidation and thuggery it will get.

The Charlie Hebdo jihad massacre is proving to have been a great victory for the jihadists:

now they [moslems] are getting non-Muslims in France and elsewhere to curtail their behavior to conform to Sharia blasphemy laws.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/01/sharia-france-artwork-violating-islamic-blasph...

A COMMENT THAT WAS MADE, IN RESPONSE TO THE ARTICLE [ABOVE].....

Quote:

JAMES says

January 28, 2015 at 2:27 pm

When you bend your laws to accommodate other peoples laws, soon those people will bend you to their laws.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1179 - Jan 30^th, 2015 at 7:51am

Yadda wrote on Jan 30^th, 2015 at 7:11am:

This is how it starts.

'Bending the knee', to 'the moslem' [who lives among us].

Declaring to the moslem [who lives among us], that we [the people of the host nation] do not wish to offend moslem 'sensibilities'.

So we tell 'the moslem' that we agree, and that we are willing, to refrain from any normal scrutiny or criticism of the 'peaceful faith' which moslems follow.

This is the way that we [the people of the host nation] allow the beginning of the introduction - AND ENFORCEMENT - of ISLAMIC Sharia laws, here, within our own land.

This is the way that we [the people of the host nation] allow ourselves to be constrained by ISLAMIC/Sharia blasphemy laws, here, within our own land.

.....
.....

THIS IS HOW IT STARTS.

THIS IS HOW OUR OWN COWARDICE, LEADS TO OUR OWN ENSLAVEMENT.

MORE EXAMPLES;

ISLAMIC blasphemy laws being 'rightfully' enforced, in a moslem majority jurisdiction;

Quote:

Egyptian poet goes on trial accused of contempt of Islam
Jan 28, 2015 01:37 pm | Robert Spencer

Clearly post-Morsi Egypt is still full of people who believe in Sharia blasphemy laws.

In the enlightened West, we don’t have blasphemy laws.

If someone expresses what Leftists and Islamic supremacists think of as “contempt for Islam” here, the only thing that happens is that you’re excoriated as a racist and bigot, and shunned by all decent folk.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/01/egyptian-poet-goes-on-trial-accused-of-contemp...

MORE EXAMPLES;

FACEBOOK accommodating ISLAMIC blasphemy laws, because FACEBOOK doens't want to offend 'the moslem';

Quote:

Zuckerberg said “je suis Charlie,” ...but now Facebook blocks Muhammad images
Jan 28, 2015 08:30 am | Robert Spencer

“It’s an illustration, perhaps, of how extremely complicated and nuanced issues of online speech really are,” says the Washington Post.

But it isn’t really an illustration of anything except the cowardice and inconsistency of Mark Zuckerberg.

“Two weeks after Zuckerberg said ‘je suis Charlie,’ .....Facebook begins censoring images of prophet Muhammad,” by Caitlin Dewey, Washington

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015/01/zuckerberg-said-je-suis-charlie-but-now-facebo...

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 95778 Gender:	Re: spineless apologetics Reply #1180 - Jan 30^th, 2015 at 7:59pm I love it when dirty old boys squirm and try not to bend to my laws. It makes for a jolly ride. I have to hand it to them.They always bend in the end. Gud is great, no?
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freediver

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1181 - Jan 30^th, 2015 at 8:46pm

Quote:

Which political trajectory is that FD? You'll find that the unprecedented wave of western energy consumption in Morris's graph that Rome rode on was in full swing long before Rome's "inclusive" republic became the 'core' of the west, and continued unabated long after any republican inclusiveness was abandoned.

It remained because the economic impacts of what went previously hung around for a while. There was institutional inertia. What exactly are you claiming about beforehand? You appear to have pre-inserted several layers of backpedaling.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1182 - Feb 1^st, 2015 at 6:41pm

freediver wrote on Jan 30^th, 2015 at 8:46pm:

It remained because the economic impacts of what went previously hung around for a while. There was institutional inertia. What exactly are you claiming about beforehand? You appear to have pre-inserted several layers of backpedaling.

Try again FD, this time try addressing the actual point. What I was "claiming about beforehand" was that you attribute Rome's greatness (which you measure by Morris's social development scale) to Rome's alleged 'political inclusiveness' - a mysterious thing that you still haven't explained to us. Yet the only evidence you use demonstrates that the rise in social development in the west happened before, during and after the period that Rome had any semblance of "political inclusiveness" (and even that period is debatable). Point being, there is no evidence whatsoever that any such political inclusiveness was the cause of such a rise in social development - Rome may simply have been 'riding the wave', as it were, and the rise in energy output and organization may well have been happening independent of any "political inclusive" factors.

If you want a take-home message FD, its that you chose the most inadequate type of evidence to support you claim about political inclusiveness and its role in creating economic prosperity - especially when you can't even explain what 'political inclusiveness' even means.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1183 - Feb 1^st, 2015 at 7:18pm

We see the same pattern with the Roman Empire, Venice, the French and the British Empires, and the developed world today. The theory is explored in detail in "Why Nations Fail" (see the second thread I linked earlier).

I have elaborated on political inclusiveness in the context of the Roman Empire. It was far more inclusive that the Caliphate.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1184 - Feb 1^st, 2015 at 7:40pm

freediver wrote on Feb 1^st, 2015 at 7:18pm:

I have elaborated on political inclusiveness in the context of the Roman Empire. It was far more inclusive that the Caliphate.

No you haven't - you gave some vague mention of plebs getting some sort of vote, but no incite to what that vote actually meant. You also haven't demonstrated any meaningful difference between Rome and the Islamic Empire - apart from mistake the islamic caliphate for Prophet Muhammad's rule. People in Syria also get the vote, does that make Syria a "politically inclusive"regime? Is this going to be a revisit of 'Afghanistan is a functioning democracy because I can cite a list of candidates at the election' logic?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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