Australian Politics Forum - spineless apologetics

polite_gandalf

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1200 - Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 1:06pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 1:03pm:

How can it be Islamophobia when there were no muslim victims?

So Baron, I'd like you to say it straight out if you wouldn't mind - are you saying Brievik doesn't fear Islam?

Are you saying killing students of the political party he held directly responsible for allowing islam into Norway has nothing to do with a "fear of Islam"?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1201 - Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 1:17pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 1:06pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 1:03pm:

How can it be Islamophobia when there were no muslim victims?

So Baron, I'd like you to say it straight out if you wouldn't mind - are you saying Brievik doesn't fear Islam?

Are you saying killing students of the political party he held directly responsible for allowing islam into Norway has nothing to do with a "fear of Islam"?

Are you saying Breviks irrational fear of Islam caused him to kill non muslims?

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1202 - Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 1:26pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 1:17pm:

Are you saying Breviks irrational fear of Islam caused him to kill non muslims?

GEE Baron now there's a thought!!

What does everyone else think? When Breivik's *STATED* justification of his attack was his fear of islam taking over the western world - does that count as an 'irrational fear of Islam"?

Would you settle for "rational" fear of islam Baron?

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1203 - Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 1:53pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 1:26pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 1:17pm:

Are you saying Breviks irrational fear of Islam caused him to kill non muslims?

GEE Baron now there's a thought!!

What does everyone else think? When Breivik's *STATED* justification of his attack was his fear of islam taking over the western world - does that count as an 'irrational fear of Islam"?

Would you settle for "rational" fear of islam Baron?

So what does killing leftist non muslims have to do with Islamophobia?

How many muslim victims were there in his attack?

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: spineless apologetics Reply #1204 - Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 2:14pm read this very S - L - O - W - L - Y Baron... *Breivik's STATED* justification of his attack was his fear of islam**
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

Soren

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1205 - Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 3:27pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 12:48pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 12:46pm:

How can that be considered Islamophobia

- so you're saying Breivik doesn't fear islam?

good one!

He didn't blame Muslims for wanting to go to the West and didn't fear Islam as long as it stayed away from the West ( a bit like Muslims want the West to stay away from 'Muslim lands' don't you think?). He didn't want it in Norway and he blamed politicians for allowing it in. It is a distinction that's worth observing if you don't want to descend to Hot Breath's or Brain's level.

It is a political decision to allow mass Muslim migration to the West. Stopping it, if it is to be stopped, also has to be a political decision.

But I think Brevik was a salvo in the Enoch Powell 'rivers of blood' scenario. In a way his over the top action ensured that it will not be repeated in a hurry but rather the political path will be pursued with greater determination. The Charlie Hebdo massacre, the Copenhagen shooting and of course the whole ISIL savagery also strengthen the political will. There will be more attacks on the West, urged by ISIL and other Islamist outfits and the time will come when the political push will be too great to resist. The Danish tightening of immigration controls was an early step, Australia's tightening of visa and citizenship rules is another tentative step. Movements in the UK, Germany, Denmark, France and elsewhere are all gathering support with every news of another Islamist atrocity. But there will be no more Breviks.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: spineless apologetics Reply #1206 - Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 3:37pm Soren wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 3:27pm: He didn't blame Muslims for wanting to go to the West and didn't fear Islam as long as it stayed away from the West So S, you would agree that Breivik DID have a fear of Islam in the west, and that this was a key reason for his attack?
Back to top	A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said: Quote: Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms. IP Logged

|dev|null

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1207 - Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 3:38pm

Soren wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 3:27pm:

He didn't blame Muslims for wanting to go to the West and didn't fear Islam as long as it stayed away from the West ( a bit like Muslims want the West to stay away from 'Muslim lands' don't you think?). He didn't want it in Norway and he blamed politicians for allowing it in. It is a distinction that's worth observing if you don't want to descend to Hot Breath's or Brain's level.

And what is wrong my "level"? Grin

Quote:

It is a political decision to allow mass Muslim migration to the West. Stopping it, if it is to be stopped, also has to be a political decision.

Of course it does but if it is to occur, it has to be based on something other than your usual level of insane religious persecution and bigotry Soren! Grin

Quote:

But I think Brevik was a salvo in the Enoch Powell 'rivers of blood' scenario. In a way his over the top action ensured that it will not be repeated in a hurry but rather the political path will be pursued with greater determination. The Charlie Hebdo massacre, the Copenhagen shooting and of course the whole ISIL savagery also strengthen the political will. There will be more attacks on the West, urged by ISIL and other Islamist outfits and the time will come when the political push will be too great to resist. The Danish tightening of immigration controls was an early step, Australia's tightening of visa and citizenship rules is another tentative step. Movements in the UK, Germany, Denmark, France and elsewhere are all gathering support with every news of another Islamist atrocity. But there will be no more Breviks.

Hopefully not but I suspect you're wrong Soren as you're a prime piece of beef to represent one! Grin

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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

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Soren

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1208 - Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 5:49pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 3:37pm:

Soren wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 3:27pm:

He didn't blame Muslims for wanting to go to the West and didn't fear Islam

as long as

it stayed away from the West

So S, you would agree that Breivik *DID* have a fear of Islam in the west, and that this was a key reason for his attack?

THat's what he said and wrote. And that in itself is completely unremarkable
Wink

. There are millions of people who are apprehensive or fearful about the incursions of Islam in the West and see Islam as incompatible with Western ideals and systems and so are fearful about the spread of Islamic thought and custom in the West.

In this we are not dissimilar to Muslims who fear the incursion of Western ideas and influence into 'Muslim lands'. The heart of Islam goes so far as forbidding any non-Muslims to worship openly and bans identifiable Jews from entering.

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« Last Edit: Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 5:58pm by Soren »

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Soren

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1209 - Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 5:57pm

|dev|null wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 3:38pm:

Soren wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 3:27pm:

He didn't blame Muslims for wanting to go to the West and didn't fear Islam as long as it stayed away from the West ( a bit like Muslims want the West to stay away from 'Muslim lands' don't you think?). He didn't want it in Norway and he blamed politicians for allowing it in. It is a distinction that's worth observing if you don't want to descend to Hot Breath's or Brain's level.

And what is wrong my "level"? Grin

You are stupid and could never, ever, elevate yourself to the level of a reasonable discussion.

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polite_gandalf

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1210 - Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 8:38pm

Soren wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 5:49pm:

THat's what he said and wrote. And that in itself is completely unremarkable Wink . There are millions of people who are apprehensive or fearful about the incursions of Islam in the West and see Islam as incompatible with Western ideals and systems and so are fearful about the spread of Islamic thought and custom in the West.

No arguments S - but Baron is claiming with a straight face that this was somehow not the case. Thats how dumb his argument is

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« Last Edit: Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 8:50pm by polite_gandalf »

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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Soren

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1211 - Feb 24^th, 2015 at 11:08am

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 8:38pm:

Soren wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 5:49pm:

THat's what he said and wrote. And that in itself is completely unremarkable Wink . There are millions of people who are apprehensive or fearful about the incursions of Islam in the West and see Islam as incompatible with Western ideals and systems and so are fearful about the spread of Islamic thought and custom in the West.

No arguments S - but Baron is claiming with a straight face that this was somehow not the case. Thats how dumb his argument is

Well, it was not an islamophobic murder spree.

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|dev|null

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1212 - Feb 24^th, 2015 at 11:40am

Soren wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 5:57pm:

|dev|null wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 3:38pm:

Soren wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2015 at 3:27pm:

He didn't blame Muslims for wanting to go to the West and didn't fear Islam as long as it stayed away from the West ( a bit like Muslims want the West to stay away from 'Muslim lands' don't you think?). He didn't want it in Norway and he blamed politicians for allowing it in. It is a distinction that's worth observing if you don't want to descend to Hot Breath's or Brain's level.

And what is wrong my "level"? Grin

You are stupid and could never, ever, elevate yourself to the level of a reasonable discussion.

Wrong! Care to try again Soren? I continually have to lower myself to your level to make myself understood! Grin

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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: spineless apologetics Reply #1213 - Feb 24^th, 2015 at 11:50am Soren wrote on Feb 24^th, 2015 at 11:08am: Well, it was not an islamophobic murder spree. Absolutely S - just a spree committed by a guy whose stated justification was his fear of Islam. But definitely NOT islamophobic!!
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Soren

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1214 - Feb 24^th, 2015 at 3:44pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Feb 24^th, 2015 at 11:50am:

Soren wrote on Feb 24^th, 2015 at 11:08am:

Well, it was not an islamophobic murder spree.

Absolutely S - just a spree committed by a guy whose stated justification was his fear of Islam.

But definitely *NOT* islamophobic!! Cheesy

Oh, I see!!!!! I forgot that ze muslim victimhood line muss be obeyed at all timez

We must not be opposed to Islam in any way. Complete disagreement and opposition are phobia. We must learn to love it.

If you oppose fascism or communism Catholicism, you are anti-fascist or anti-communist or anti-Catholic. if you oppose Islam, you are Islamophobic.

Got it.

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