Australian Politics Forum - spineless apologetics

Brian Ross

Gold Member

Offline

Representative of me

Posts: 40467

Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1905 - Sep 20^th, 2017 at 9:45pm

Frank wrote on Sep 20^th, 2017 at 8:28pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 19^th, 2017 at 2:02pm:

moses wrote on Sep 19^th, 2017 at 12:21pm:

Brian Ross wrote Reply #1889 - Yesterday at 5:39pm

Quote:

Spoken like a true Protestant, Moses. Catholicism was, to most Western Europeans the only true Christian religion and to the Spanish in particular. The Requerimiento was in 1513. The Christian Reformation did not occur until Martin Luther nailed his Ninety-Five Theses to the door of the cathedral in 1517. The Spanish still remain today primarily Catholics. They were reacting to centuries of Christian belief in 1513.

So, run away, Moses, you've been tripped up again by history. When considering Spain's Christian credentials you need to understand it's relationship to the Catholic church and it's teachings, not to Christ's views on matters.

I repeat:

1/. There was no genocide, people died as they lacked immunity to introduced diseases.

2/. The deeds of the Spanish Conquistador were at the behest of men who made their own rules and regulations, which were 100% at odds with the teachings of Christ, as such they are not acts of Christianity.

Then you tell us to Disregard Christs' view on Christianity in order to validate your false premisses.

Actually you have conceded to my point:

1/.Men who commit atrocities are Disregarding Christs' view on Christianity.

2/. muslims who commit atrocities are obeying the teachings of muhammad and the verses in the qur'an.

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Poor, poor, Moses. It's not what I say or what you say, it is what the Spaniards said and did which matter here. The Conquistadori were inspired by their Christian religion and were given the OK by their Christian church leaders. Now, you can claim what you like but the reality is those Church leaders spoke with the authority of their position in society and used the language of their religious beliefs to justify what they told the Conquistadori was OK. Roll Eyes

Well, then, ISIS THEREFORE is completely Islamic, completely in line with Islamic doctrine - soldiers of allah and their imams say so, Brian. It doesn't matter what YOU say, big thick (mince in treacle). Islamic terrorism is as Islamic as the conquistadors were true christians.

But who today is till a conquistador? Nobody. But there are plenty of Islamic jihadist.
I

Oh, dearie, dearie, me, Soren. Tell me, if ISIS is "completely Islamic, completely in line with Islamic doctrine - soldiers of allah," why are all the other Muslims intent on killing them?

Has the unalterable, the unchangeable interpretation of Mohammed's teachings changed?

As for the Conquistadori - the peoples of Latin and Southern America (and southern United States) still live with their legacy. The Conquistadori may all be dead but their legacy continues. Roll Eyes

Back to top

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

IP Logged

issuevoter Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9200 The Great State of Mind Gender:	Re: spineless apologetics Reply #1906 - Sep 20^th, 2017 at 9:58pm He is quite obviously not bored with his pet subject, even though its in his location. That's the kind of stuff they teach em at Divinity school.
Back to top	No political allegiance. No philosophy. No religion. IP Logged

sir prince duke alevine

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male

Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1907 - Sep 20^th, 2017 at 10:57pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 19^th, 2017 at 9:29pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 19^th, 2017 at 8:48pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 19^th, 2017 at 8:38pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 19^th, 2017 at 8:35pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 19^th, 2017 at 8:30pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 19^th, 2017 at 7:03pm:

What is the point of your argument? Are you suggesting that because Catholics did something centuries ago it means Muslims can do it today?

Some Catholics did bad things, centuries ago. Some Muslims do bad things today. The entire religious movements were not guilty of those crimes. My point is that those Muslims are not unique, something many Islamophobes refuse to acknowledge because to do so would prevent their own point being driven home. History shows that some Muslims are simply one of a long line of religious fruitcakes which exist amongst humanity's numbers. Roll Eyes

They aren't unique, sure, but they are current. And that's what most of the regressives seem to ignore.

Your use of the term "regressive" is telling, Alevine. Are you suggesting that by supporting the rights of citizens who are Muslims and are not Terrorists or Terrorism supporters makes me a "regressive"? Roll Eyes

No. You are regressive by ignoring the pain inflicted by Islam on people, and trying to justify the current illiberal state of Islam. especialyl with such argument as, 'But catholics did it a few hundreds years ago!'

I do not ignore it. I acknowledge that it inflicts equal pain to that of all religions, Alevine. Islam is not a "Borg"-like creation. It is made up of ~1.6 billion individuals who all have their own views on their own religious beliefs. To try and state that Muslims in Australia or Indonesia or Malaysia are identical in their views on their religion and it's beliefs to the Muslims in Saudi Arabia is ludicrous. It's like trying to claim that the Christian beliefs of Australians are the same as the Christian beliefs of Europeans or Latin/South Americans or Oceania. Everybody takes what they like from their religion's belief system.

As to the claim that I have made the statement that, "But catholics did it a few hundreds years ago!" is just as fascicle. I have made statements which Islamophobes like Moses challenge. I have defended those views - backing them invariably with references. When he does the same, rather than referring us to his fairy story book, I may believe him. That those references I use may start out during the 16th century is immaterial. They are relevant to the discussion underway. What occurred then, shapes today. It's like a Christian stating that the existence of Chris is immaterial to their religion. Roll Eyes

mm? How does what occurred then shape today? Are Christians going around blowing people up? Are 1.6Billion Christians subjected to illiberal religious states? Are Christians killing one another en masse on the basis of their interpretation of their religions? Provide examples.
No one says that individuals don't have their own interpretations. But , as an example, > 60% of individuals in Egypt have said they agree with death penalty for apostates...and they've gotten that from where? Surely we can look at the current state of the Islamic world and criticise what we see and don't agree with. And somehow attributing events from 100 years ago in this discussion doesn't in anyway invalidate the criticism of the current state of Islam.

Back to top

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

IP Logged

Frank

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 43698
Gender: male

Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1908 - Sep 21^st, 2017 at 7:16am

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 20^th, 2017 at 9:45pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 20^th, 2017 at 8:28pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 19^th, 2017 at 2:02pm:

moses wrote on Sep 19^th, 2017 at 12:21pm:

Brian Ross wrote Reply #1889 - Yesterday at 5:39pm

Quote:

Spoken like a true Protestant, Moses. Catholicism was, to most Western Europeans the only true Christian religion and to the Spanish in particular. The Requerimiento was in 1513. The Christian Reformation did not occur until Martin Luther nailed his Ninety-Five Theses to the door of the cathedral in 1517. The Spanish still remain today primarily Catholics. They were reacting to centuries of Christian belief in 1513.

So, run away, Moses, you've been tripped up again by history. When considering Spain's Christian credentials you need to understand it's relationship to the Catholic church and it's teachings, not to Christ's views on matters.

I repeat:

1/. There was no genocide, people died as they lacked immunity to introduced diseases.

2/. The deeds of the Spanish Conquistador were at the behest of men who made their own rules and regulations, which were 100% at odds with the teachings of Christ, as such they are not acts of Christianity.

Then you tell us to Disregard Christs' view on Christianity in order to validate your false premisses.

Actually you have conceded to my point:

1/.Men who commit atrocities are Disregarding Christs' view on Christianity.

2/. muslims who commit atrocities are obeying the teachings of muhammad and the verses in the qur'an.

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Poor, poor, Moses. It's not what I say or what you say, it is what the Spaniards said and did which matter here. The Conquistadori were inspired by their Christian religion and were given the OK by their Christian church leaders. Now, you can claim what you like but the reality is those Church leaders spoke with the authority of their position in society and used the language of their religious beliefs to justify what they told the Conquistadori was OK. Roll Eyes

Well, then, ISIS THEREFORE is completely Islamic, completely in line with Islamic doctrine - soldiers of allah and their imams say so, Brian. It doesn't matter what YOU say, big thick (mince in treacle). Islamic terrorism is as Islamic as the conquistadors were true christians.

But who today is till a conquistador? Nobody. But there are plenty of Islamic jihadist.
I

Oh, dearie, dearie, me, Soren. Tell me, if ISIS is "completely Islamic, completely in line with Islamic doctrine - soldiers of allah," why are all the other Muslims intent on killing them?

Has the unalterable, the unchangeable interpretation of Mohammed's teachings changed?

As for the Conquistadori - the peoples of Latin and Southern America (and southern United States) still live with their legacy. The Conquistadori may all be dead but their legacy continues. Roll Eyes

Like Mohammed's legacy.

Back to top

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

IP Logged

moses

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 6353

Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1909 - Sep 21^st, 2017 at 11:41am

Brian Ross wrote: Reply #1904 - Yesterday at 9:27pm

Quote:

As I have said before, Moses. Catholicism is Christian. It is one denomination - the major denomination - amongst many denominations all describing themselves as "Christian".

The Churches are all nearly equally of the crimes ascribed to the Catholic church. They have all basically supported genocide, massacre, imperialism, etc. at one time or another. As much as you keep trying to disown it, claiming it is not representative of Christ's message, etc. you are simply trying to obscure what Christianity as a movement has done.

And that's the sticking point.

The truth is people who commit atrocities are disobeying the teachings of Christ.

The Christian doctrine is very clear on this point, evil doers are disowned.

You can dishonestly try and portray the past atrocities as examples of Christianity, however the doctrine proves you're a liar.

You simply lack the integrity to make a truthful statement: Men who have perpetrated atrocities have disobeyed the doctrine of Christ.

Quote:

While you keep attacking Islam, you're just indicating how hypocritical you and it appears many other Christians are about your religion and it's beliefs, Moses. Tsk, tsk.

islam is being attacked because it is the antithesis of Christianity.

islam preaches religious terrorism as the highest path for muslims.

islam is a death cult.

The preislamic moon god allah apparently was able to exist in harmony with other beliefs.

However when muhammad decided to reinvent his moon god, he made allah a god of hate and mass murder.

muslims are now reaping the fruits of 1400 years of muhammads' recreated moon god: poverty, inbreeding physical and mental deficiencies, low I.Q., death and destruction, millions of them fleeing around the globe, they are a burden on everybody else, global acts of terrorism, they are at the bottom of the heap and think the only way up is to regress deeper into the very cause of their problems (islam).

Leftards are doing their very best to keep them where they are, you're petrified at the thought of a reformation of islamic doctrine, so you say and do anything to excuse islamic terrorism rather than have muslims look inwards at their own beliefs as the way to solve their problems.

However more and more people are turning Brian, you will lose in the end.

Back to top

IP Logged

Brian Ross

Gold Member

Offline

Representative of me

Posts: 40467

Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1910 - Sep 21^st, 2017 at 3:44pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 20^th, 2017 at 10:57pm:

mm? How does what occurred then shape today? Are Christians going around blowing people up? Are 1.6Billion Christians subjected to illiberal religious states? Are Christians killing one another en masse on the basis of their interpretation of their religions? Provide examples.

Christians are past that, thankfully, Alevine. However, they do kill those that they disagree with. They create propaganda to justify their crimes - just look at the current same sex marriage survey in Australia. None of their claims have come true in any of the countries which have legalised same sex marriage, yet they still claim it will lead to the end of civilisation. Really? Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

Quote:

No one says that individuals don't have their own interpretations.

Mmm, haven't read much by Yadda/Moses/Soren/FD, then have you? Roll Eyes

Quote:

But , as an example, > 60% of individuals in Egypt have said they agree with death penalty for apostates...and they've gotten that from where? Surely we can look at the current state of the Islamic world and criticise what we see and don't agree with. And somehow attributing events from 100 years ago in this discussion doesn't in anyway invalidate the criticism of the current state of Islam.

Views outside of Australia are considering at variance to the views inside Australia's Muslim community. "Believing" is not doing. Many on this very forum, such as Herbie/Bobby/etc., claim that they believe in Capital punishment for crimes against the individual. Does that solve the crime problem? Doesn't seem to have worked for the thousands of years we've seen that penalty in use, now has it? I make no excuses for what the Egyptians believe in. Nor for what they claim in Saudi Arabia or any other overseas country. I am interested in what Australian Muslims claim to believe in. The overwhelming majority of them support Australian law as it stands, today. That is good enough for me. How about you? Roll Eyes

Back to top

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

IP Logged

Brian Ross

Gold Member

Offline

Representative of me

Posts: 40467

Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1911 - Sep 21^st, 2017 at 3:45pm

Frank wrote on Sep 21^st, 2017 at 7:16am:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 20^th, 2017 at 9:45pm:

Frank wrote on Sep 20^th, 2017 at 8:28pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 19^th, 2017 at 2:02pm:

moses wrote on Sep 19^th, 2017 at 12:21pm:

Brian Ross wrote Reply #1889 - Yesterday at 5:39pm

Quote:

Spoken like a true Protestant, Moses. Catholicism was, to most Western Europeans the only true Christian religion and to the Spanish in particular. The Requerimiento was in 1513. The Christian Reformation did not occur until Martin Luther nailed his Ninety-Five Theses to the door of the cathedral in 1517. The Spanish still remain today primarily Catholics. They were reacting to centuries of Christian belief in 1513.

So, run away, Moses, you've been tripped up again by history. When considering Spain's Christian credentials you need to understand it's relationship to the Catholic church and it's teachings, not to Christ's views on matters.

I repeat:

1/. There was no genocide, people died as they lacked immunity to introduced diseases.

2/. The deeds of the Spanish Conquistador were at the behest of men who made their own rules and regulations, which were 100% at odds with the teachings of Christ, as such they are not acts of Christianity.

Then you tell us to Disregard Christs' view on Christianity in order to validate your false premisses.

Actually you have conceded to my point:

1/.Men who commit atrocities are Disregarding Christs' view on Christianity.

2/. muslims who commit atrocities are obeying the teachings of muhammad and the verses in the qur'an.

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Poor, poor, Moses. It's not what I say or what you say, it is what the Spaniards said and did which matter here. The Conquistadori were inspired by their Christian religion and were given the OK by their Christian church leaders. Now, you can claim what you like but the reality is those Church leaders spoke with the authority of their position in society and used the language of their religious beliefs to justify what they told the Conquistadori was OK. Roll Eyes

Well, then, ISIS THEREFORE is completely Islamic, completely in line with Islamic doctrine - soldiers of allah and their imams say so, Brian. It doesn't matter what YOU say, big thick (mince in treacle). Islamic terrorism is as Islamic as the conquistadors were true christians.

But who today is till a conquistador? Nobody. But there are plenty of Islamic jihadist.
I

Oh, dearie, dearie, me, Soren. Tell me, if ISIS is "completely Islamic, completely in line with Islamic doctrine - soldiers of allah," why are all the other Muslims intent on killing them?

Has the unalterable, the unchangeable interpretation of Mohammed's teachings changed?

As for the Conquistadori - the peoples of Latin and Southern America (and southern United States) still live with their legacy. The Conquistadori may all be dead but their legacy continues. Roll Eyes

Like Mohammed's legacy.

So, how does that answer the question, Soren? Tsk, tsk, wasting our time yet again? Roll Eyes

Back to top

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

IP Logged

Brian Ross

Gold Member

Offline

Representative of me

Posts: 40467

Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1912 - Sep 21^st, 2017 at 3:58pm

moses wrote on Sep 21^st, 2017 at 11:41am:

Brian Ross wrote: Reply #1904 - Yesterday at 9:27pm

Quote:

As I have said before, Moses. Catholicism is Christian. It is one denomination - the major denomination - amongst many denominations all describing themselves as "Christian".

The Churches are all nearly equally of the crimes ascribed to the Catholic church. They have all basically supported genocide, massacre, imperialism, etc. at one time or another. As much as you keep trying to disown it, claiming it is not representative of Christ's message, etc. you are simply trying to obscure what Christianity as a movement has done.

And that's the sticking point.

The truth is people who commit atrocities are disobeying the teachings of Christ.

According to you. According to them, they are obeying the teachings of Christ, Moses.

Quote:

The Christian doctrine is very clear on this point, evil doers are disowned.

According to you. According to them, they are going to be rewarded for doing what they believe are the teachings of Christ, Moses.

Quote:

You can dishonestly try and portray the past atrocities as examples of Christianity, however the doctrine proves you're a liar.

I have proved that the past atrocities were undertaken as part of the early beliefs of Christianity, Moses. You keep refusing to accept that because it embarrasses you.

Quote:

You simply lack the integrity to make a truthful statement: Men who have perpetrated atrocities have disobeyed the doctrine of Christ.

According to you. According to them? Nope, they believed they were obeying the doctrine of Christ as they had been taught it by their Church.

Quote:

Quote:

While you keep attacking Islam, you're just indicating how hypocritical you and it appears many other Christians are about your religion and it's beliefs, Moses. Tsk, tsk.

islam is being attacked because it is the antithesis of Christianity.

According to you, a hypocrite, Moses? Why should we believe you when we have 2017 years of history which counters your claims?

Quote:

islam preaches religious terrorism as the highest path for muslims.

islam is a death cult.

The preislamic moon god allah apparently was able to exist in harmony with other beliefs.

However when muhammad decided to reinvent his moon god, he made allah a god of hate and mass murder.

muslims are now reaping the fruits of 1400 years of muhammads' recreated moon god: poverty, inbreeding physical and mental deficiencies, low I.Q., death and destruction, millions of them fleeing around the globe, they are a burden on everybody else, global acts of terrorism, they are at the bottom of the heap and think the only way up is to regress deeper into the very cause of their problems (islam).

According to you, a hypocrite, Moses? Tsk, tsk, your credibility is in tatters.

Quote:

Leftards are doing their very best to keep them where they are, you're petrified at the thought of a reformation of islamic doctrine, so you say and do anything to excuse islamic terrorism rather than have muslims look inwards at their own beliefs as the way to solve their problems.

However more and more people are turning Brian, you will lose in the end.

I am terrified of nothing, Moses. Islam can reform. Islam can stay moribund. Christianity can reform, Christianity can stay moribund. I am irreligious, Moses. I have nothing invested in believing in a sky fairy, unlike you. When you admit the error of your ways, we might be able to talk.... Roll Eyes

Back to top

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

IP Logged

Frank

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 43698
Gender: male

Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1913 - Sep 21^st, 2017 at 7:33pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 21^st, 2017 at 3:44pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 20^th, 2017 at 10:57pm:

mm? How does what occurred then shape today? Are Christians going around blowing people up? Are 1.6Billion Christians subjected to illiberal religious states? Are Christians killing one another en masse on the basis of their interpretation of their religions? Provide examples.

Christians are past that, thankfully, Alevine. However, they do kill those that they disagree with. They create propaganda to justify their crimes - just look at the current same sex marriage survey in Australia. None of their claims have come true in any of the countries which have legalised same sex marriage, yet they still claim it will lead to the end of civilisation. Really? Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

Actually, ALL they claims have come true, they are coming true in Australia even before the vote is in.

Nobody has been sacked for advocating SSM. There is at least one documented case of being sacked for saying No.

Opposing SSM is 'hate speech' (the same as your stupid 'Islamophobia' shrieks, big thick).

Advocating for SSM is not labelled as hate speech even though it is obviously and evidently hateful of heterosexuals having an institution that is as fundamentally heterosexual as can be. Gays want to reduce it to their level, remove its heterosexual essence.

But still, nobody is sacking gays.

A gay / transgender hater dragged the Bishop of Tasmania before a tribunal for being Christian and saying out loud what the Church stands for.

What we are seeing is the Gay Animal farm with the gay activists as the pigs. Their tactics are as Stalinist as the pigs'.

Back to top

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

IP Logged

sir prince duke alevine

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male

Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1914 - Sep 21^st, 2017 at 11:06pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 21^st, 2017 at 3:44pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 20^th, 2017 at 10:57pm:

mm? How does what occurred then shape today? Are Christians going around blowing people up? Are 1.6Billion Christians subjected to illiberal religious states? Are Christians killing one another en masse on the basis of their interpretation of their religions? Provide examples.

Christians are past that, thankfully, Alevine. However, they do kill those that they disagree with. They create propaganda to justify their crimes - just look at the current same sex marriage survey in Australia. None of their claims have come true in any of the countries which have legalised same sex marriage, yet they still claim it will lead to the end of civilisation. Really? Tsk, tsk. Roll Eyes

Quote:

No one says that individuals don't have their own interpretations.

Mmm, haven't read much by Yadda/Moses/Soren/FD, then have you? Roll Eyes

Quote:

But , as an example, > 60% of individuals in Egypt have said they agree with death penalty for apostates...and they've gotten that from where? Surely we can look at the current state of the Islamic world and criticise what we see and don't agree with. And somehow attributing events from 100 years ago in this discussion doesn't in anyway invalidate the criticism of the current state of Islam.

Views outside of Australia are considering at variance to the views inside Australia's Muslim community. "Believing" is not doing. Many on this very forum, such as Herbie/Bobby/etc., claim that they believe in Capital punishment for crimes against the individual. Does that solve the crime problem? Doesn't seem to have worked for the thousands of years we've seen that penalty in use, now has it? I make no excuses for what the Egyptians believe in. Nor for what they claim in Saudi Arabia or any other overseas country. I am interested in what Australian Muslims claim to believe in. The overwhelming majority of them support Australian law as it stands, today. That is good enough for me. How about you? Roll Eyes

Views outside of Australia are considered at variance to the views inside the Australian muslim community? Really? I'd be glad to see reports on this as so far what we've witnessed is mass rallying against cartoons, videos of mohammed, majority opposition to same sex marriage, disproportionate amount of muslim women in the workforce compared to non-muslim women. Not to mention that what goes on in the wider 1.6Billion Muslim community does indeed matter to the minority muslim community in Australia. Why? Because we know that islam is seeing a growth in the conservative interpretation of it. Nothing suggests that a conservative muslim somehow becomes a moderate muslim the moment they arrive in Australia. So the key is to help ALL of islam reform, not just parts in Australia. It's the only way to prevent the spread of the crazy dangerous interpretations, and instead to try and keep the 'well meaning' ones.

Back to top

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

IP Logged

Brian Ross

Gold Member

Offline

Representative of me

Posts: 40467

Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1915 - Sep 21^st, 2017 at 11:12pm

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 21^st, 2017 at 11:06pm:

Views outside of Australia are considered at variance to the views inside the Australian muslim community? Really? I'd be glad to see reports on this as so far what we've witnessed is mass rallying against cartoons, videos of mohammed, majority opposition to same sex marriage, disproportionate amount of muslim women in the workforce compared to non-muslim women. Not to mention that what goes on in the wider 1.6Billion Muslim community does indeed matter to the minority muslim community in Australia. Why? Because we know that islam is seeing a growth in the conservative interpretation of it. Nothing suggests that a conservative muslim somehow becomes a moderate muslim the moment they arrive in Australia. So the key is to help ALL of islam reform, not just parts in Australia. It's the only way to prevent the spread of the crazy dangerous interpretations, and instead to try and keep the 'well meaning' ones.

Several hundred protesters in Sydney represent only a minority of Muslims in Australia, Alevine. When you have hundreds of thousands on the street you can claim a majority viewpoint. Roll Eyes

I am unsure why you're upset by a "dispropornate" number of Muslim women in the workforce, compared to non-Muslim women. If that was true, that's actually a good thing as it means that there will be fewer Muslim kids as the women are too busy working to have and care for them! Roll Eyes

Back to top

Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

IP Logged

sir prince duke alevine

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 23619
Gender: male

Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1916 - Sep 21^st, 2017 at 11:31pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 21^st, 2017 at 11:12pm:

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 21^st, 2017 at 11:06pm:

Views outside of Australia are considered at variance to the views inside the Australian muslim community? Really? I'd be glad to see reports on this as so far what we've witnessed is mass rallying against cartoons, videos of mohammed, majority opposition to same sex marriage, disproportionate amount of muslim women in the workforce compared to non-muslim women. Not to mention that what goes on in the wider 1.6Billion Muslim community does indeed matter to the minority muslim community in Australia. Why? Because we know that islam is seeing a growth in the conservative interpretation of it. Nothing suggests that a conservative muslim somehow becomes a moderate muslim the moment they arrive in Australia. So the key is to help ALL of islam reform, not just parts in Australia. It's the only way to prevent the spread of the crazy dangerous interpretations, and instead to try and keep the 'well meaning' ones.

Several hundred protesters in Sydney represent only a minority of Muslims in Australia, Alevine. When you have hundreds of thousands on the street you can claim a majority viewpoint. Roll Eyes

I am unsure why you're upset by a "dispropornate" number of Muslim women in the workforce, compared to non-Muslim women. If that was true, that's actually a good thing as it means that there will be fewer Muslim kids as the women are too busy working to have and care for them! Roll Eyes

Wait, you thought disproportionate meant a greater amount of muslim women in the workforce than non-muslim women? Grin

Yeah, right. Think again.

And to suggest that a majority viewpoint can only be claimed by the NUMBEr of people IN a protest is so ridiculous. By that logic climate change doesn't have majority support. In fact, same sex marriage can't possibly claim majority support.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Sep 21^st, 2017 at 11:37pm by sir prince duke alevine »

Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.

IP Logged

Lastone

Senior Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 310
Pakenham, Victoria, Australia
Gender: male

Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1917 - Sep 21^st, 2017 at 11:44pm

freediver wrote on Sep 15^th, 2013 at 6:22pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 15^th, 2013 at 5:39pm:

Quote:

Is this the Islam you are so keen to defend with your "fair deal" nonsense, what about those who no longer believe in that bullshit barfed up by a 7th century desert bandit do they deserve a fair deal like article 18 of the Universal declaration of human rights?
Quote:

7 nations where atheism is punishable by death.
All 7 establish Islam as the state religion.
Pakistan,Saudi Arabia,Iran,Afghanistan,Sudan,Mauritania and the Maldives
www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2012/12/10/the-seven-countries-where-...

I make no excuses for those nations and their laws, BV. I merely recognise that it is their right to create and unfortunately impose those punishments. It is terrible but I also recognise I have no right or ability to criticise them. I am neither a member of their religion or a citizen of any of those nations.

List of people burned as heretics

Roman Catholic Countries

Ramihrdus of Cambrai (1076 or 1077) (lynched)
Peter of Bruys († 1130) (lynched)
Gerard Segarelli († 1300)
Maifreda da († 1300)
Andrea Saramiti († 1300)
Fra Dolcino († 1307) (never tried by Catholic Church), Italy
Sister Margherita († 1307), Italy
Brother Longino († 1307), Italy
Marguerite Porete († 1310), Paris, France
Botulf Botulfsson († 1311), the only known person executed for heresy in Sweden
Jacques de Molay (1243–1314), burned after conviction by a tribunal under the control of King Philip IV of France, Paris, France
Geoffroi de Charney († 1314), burned with Jacques de Molay above, Paris, France.
Guilhèm Belibasta († 1321), last Cathar, Villerouge-Termenès, France
Cecco d'Ascoli († 1327), Florence, Italy
Na Prous Boneta († 1328)
Francesco da Pistoia († 1337)
Lorenzo Gherardi († 1337)
Bartolomeo Greco († 1337)
Bartolomeo da Bucciano († 1337)
Antonio Bevilacqua († 1337)
William Sawtre († 1401), Smithfield, London, England
John Badby († 1410), Smithfield, London, England
Jan Hus (1371–1415), Constance, Germany
Jerome of Prague (1365–1416)
William Taylor († 1423), Smithfield, London, England
St. Joan of Arc (1412–1431), Trial of Joan of Arc, Rouen, France
Thomas Bagley († 1431), Smithfield, London, England
Pavel Kravař († 1433)
Joan Boughton († 1494), Smithfield, London, England
Girolamo Savonarola († 1498), Florence, Italy
Joshua Weißöck (1488–1498)
Ipswich Martyrs († 1515–1558)
Jean Vallière († 1523)
Hendrik Voes († 1523), 1st martyr in the Seventeen Provinces
Jan van Essen († 1523), 1st martyr in the Seventeen Provinces
Jan de Bakker († 1525), 1st martyr in the Northern Netherlands
Wendelmoet Claesdochter († 1527), 1st Dutch woman charged and burned for the accusation of heresy
Michael Sattler († 1527), Rottenburg am Neckar, Germany
Patrick Hamilton († 1528), St Andrews, Scotland
Balthasar Hubmaier (1485–1528), Vienna, Austria
George Blaurock (1491–1529), Klausen, Tyrol
Hans Langegger († 1529), Klausen, Tyrol
Giovanni Milanese († 1530)
Thomas Hitton († 1530), Maidstone, England
Richard Bayfield († 1531), Smithfield, England
Thomas Benet († 1531), Exeter, England
Thomas Bilney († 1531), Norwich, England
Joan Bocher († 1531), Smithfield, England
Solomon Molcho († 1532), Mantua
Thomas Harding († 1532), Chesham, England
James Bainham († 1532), Smithfield, England
John Frith (1503–1533), Smithfield, England
William Tyndale (1490–1536), Belgium
Jakob Hutter († 1536), Innsbruck, Tyrol
Aefgen Listincx († 1538), Münster, Germany
John Forest († 1538), Smithfield, England
Francisco de San Roman († 1540), Spain
Étienne Dolet (1509–1546), Paris, France
Giandomenico dell' Aquila († 1542)
Henry Filmer († 1543), Windsor, England
Robert Testwood († 1543), Windsor, England
Anthony Pearson († 1543), Windsor, England
Maria van Beckum († 1544)
Ursula van Beckum († 1544)
Colchester Martyrs († 1545 to 1558), 26 people, Colchester, England
George Wishart (1513–1546), St Andrews, Scotland
Bartolomeo Hector († 1555)
Paolo Rappi († 1555)
Vernon Giovanni († 1555)
Labori Antonio († 1555)
John Hooper († 1555), Gloucester, England
John Rogers († 1555), London, England
Canterbury Martyrs († 1555–1558), c.40 people, Canterbury, England
Laurence Saunders, (1519–1555), Coventry, England
Rowland Taylor († 1555), Hadleigh, Suffolk, England
Cornelius Bongey, († 1555), Coventry, England
Dirick Carver, († 1555), Lewes, England
Robert Ferrar († 1555), Carmarthen, Wales
William Flower († 1555), Westminster, England
Patrick Pakingham († 1555), Uxbridge, England
Hugh Latimer (1485–1555), Oxford, England
Robert Samuel († 1555), Ipswich, England

Burning of Latimer and Ridley, Oxford, 1555

Nicholas Ridley (1500–1555), Oxford, England
John Bradford († 1555), London, England
John Cardmaker († 1555), Smithfield, London, England
Robert Glover († 1555), Coventry, England
Thomas Hawkes († 1555), Coggeshall, England
Thomas Tomkins († 1555), Smithfield, London, England
Thomas Cranmer (1489–1556), Oxford, England
Stratford Martyrs († 1556), 11 men and 2 women, St

Back to top

I am yet to see a trickle down lift anyone up

IP Logged

sir prince duke alevine Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 23619 Gender:	Re: spineless apologetics Reply #1918 - Sep 21^st, 2017 at 11:45pm Shall we list the names of all the people killed be islamic terrorists in the past 5 years?
Back to top	Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of. IP Logged

Lastone

Senior Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 310
Pakenham, Victoria, Australia
Gender: male

Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1919 - Sep 21^st, 2017 at 11:47pm

Guernsey Martyrs († 1556), 3 women, Guernsey, Channel Islands
Joan Waste († 1556), Derby, England
Bartlet Green († 1556), Smithfield, London, England
John Hullier († 1556), Cambridge, England
John Forman († 1556), East Grinstead, England
Pomponio Algerio († 1556) Boiled in oil, Rome
Nicola Sartonio († 1557)
Alexander Gooch and Alice Driver († 1558), Ipswich, England
Fra Goffredo Varaglia († 1558)
Gisberto di Milanuccio († 1558)
Francesco Cartone († 1558)
Antonio di Colella († 1559)
Antonio Gesualdi († 1559)
María de Bohórquez († 1559)
Giacomo Bonello († 1560)
Mermetto Savoiardo († 1560)
Dionigi di Cola († 1560)
Gian Pascali di Cuneo († 1560)
Bernardino Conte († 1560)
Giorgio Olivetto († 1567)
Leonor de Cisneros († 1568), Valladolid, Spain
Luca di Faenza († 1568)
Thomas Szük (1522–1568)
Bartolomeo Bartoccio († 1569)
Dirk Willems († 1569), Netherlands
Fra Arnaldo di Santo Zeno († 1570)
Alessandro di Giacomo († 1574)
Benedetto Thomaria († 1574)
Francisco de la Cruz ((† 1578), Lima, Peru
Diego Lopez (martyr)|Diego Lopez († 1583)
Gabriello Henriquez († 1583)
Borro of Arezzo († 1583)
Ludovico Moro († 1583)
Pietro Benato († 1585)
Francesco Gambonell († 1594)
Marcantonio Valena († 1594)
Giovanni Antonio da Verona († 1599)
Fra Celestino († 1599)
Giordano Bruno (1548–1600), Rome, Italy
Maurizio Rinaldi († 1600)
Bartolomeo Coppino († 1601)
Lucilio Vanini (Giulio Cesare Vanini) (1585–1619), Toulouse, France
Caterina Tarongí († 1691)
Kimpa Vita (1684–1706), Angola
Maria Barbara Carillo (1625–1721), Madrid, Spain
Gertrude Cordovana († 1724), Palermo, Spain
Ana de Castro († 1736)
María de los Dolores López († 1781), Seville, Spain

The book "Acts and Monuments" by John Foxe, commonly known as Foxe's Book of Martyrs lists many more than this

Back to top

I am yet to see a trickle down lift anyone up

IP Logged