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spineless apologetics (Read 348255 times)
Lastone
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1920 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 12:03am
 
Protestant Countries



    Robert Barnes († 1540), Smithfield, London, England
    Thomas Gerrard († 1540), Smithfield, England
    Anne Askew (1521–1546), Smithfield, England
    John Lascelles († 1546), Smithfield, England
    John Adams († 1546), Smithfield, England
    Joan Bocher († 1550), Smithfield, England
    George van Parris († 1551), Smithfield, England
    Matthew Hamont († 1579), Norwich, England
    John Lewes († 1583)
    Peter Cole († 1587)
    Francis Kett († 1589), Norwich, England
    Bartholomew Legate (1575–1612), Smithfield, England
    Edward Wightman (1566–1612), relapsed heretic, Lichfield, England
    Ian Gregory (1552-1558), Lutheran heretic, Dundee, Scotland

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 21st, 2017 at 11:45pm:
Shall we list the names of all the people killed be islamic terrorists in the past 5 years?


Fine if it will help you to get off your moral high horse. Extremist Catholics, Protestants, and Jews are no different to Muslim extremists. Sure you can  argue that the last Christian executed for heresy was in the late 18th century, Islam is after all 700 years younger and is still catching up.
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sir prince duke alevine
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1921 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 12:25am
 
Lastone wrote on Sep 22nd, 2017 at 12:03am:
Protestant Countries



    Robert Barnes († 1540), Smithfield, London, England
    Thomas Gerrard († 1540), Smithfield, England
    Anne Askew (1521–1546), Smithfield, England
    John Lascelles († 1546), Smithfield, England
    John Adams († 1546), Smithfield, England
    Joan Bocher († 1550), Smithfield, England
    George van Parris († 1551), Smithfield, England
    Matthew Hamont († 1579), Norwich, England
    John Lewes († 1583)
    Peter Cole († 1587)
    Francis Kett († 1589), Norwich, England
    Bartholomew Legate (1575–1612), Smithfield, England
    Edward Wightman (1566–1612), relapsed heretic, Lichfield, England
    Ian Gregory (1552-1558), Lutheran heretic, Dundee, Scotland

sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 21st, 2017 at 11:45pm:
Shall we list the names of all the people killed be islamic terrorists in the past 5 years?


Fine if it will help you to get off your moral high horse. Extremist Catholics, Protestants, and Jews are no different to Muslim extremists. Sure you can  argue that the last Christian executed for heresy was in the late 18th century, Islam is after all 700 years younger and is still catching up.

Actually extremist catholics, protestants and jews are different to extremist muslims because extremist catholics, protestants and jews don't go around blowing up people, driving over people with trucks, crashing planes into buildings. Your argument is as pointless as Brians. We aren't dealing with what happened in 18th century. We are concerned with TODAY. AND TODAY, extremism amongst religions is different.

But please, why don't you tell me more about someone who died for heresy in the 18th century. It is so very relevant to why extremist jihadists decide to throw people off buildings.
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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
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Lastone
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1922 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 1:10am
 
Have you ever heard of the Irgun and Stern Gang? radical Jewish organisations that blew up people in the late 1940's. How about the IRA, Radical Catholics.....No they never blew up anything did they. The Ulster defence league would not know what a block of C4 was would they.

You would much rather not talk about the history of Christian religions. Because it pulls the rug out of you sense of moral superiority. Christianity spawned the likes of the Spanish inquisition It burned people alive and tortured people in the name of god. If you are not willing to recognise that as evil and condemn it, then you are nothing more than a bigoted hypocrite.

It matters very little to me whether a group, shoots you, burns you alive, stones you to death or beheads you. Either way a religious fanatic has taken a life. Historically Christianity lacks the moral authority to criticise anyone else for brutality. I don't accept with your blinkered few of life that you carry any moral authority or superiority either.
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1923 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 1:26am
 
Lastone wrote on Sep 22nd, 2017 at 1:10am:
Have you ever heard of the Irgun and Stern Gang? radical Jewish organisations that blew up people in the late 1940's. How about the IRA, Radical Catholics.....No they never blew up anything did they. The Ulster defence league would not know what a block of C4 was would they.

You would much rather not talk about the history of Christian religions. Because it pulls the rug out of you sense of moral superiority. Christianity spawned the likes of the Spanish inquisition It burned people alive and tortured people in the name of god. If you are not willing to recognise that as evil and condemn it, then you are nothing more than a bigoted hypocrite.

It matters very little to me whether a group, shoots you, burns you alive, stones you to death or beheads you. Either way a religious fanatic has taken a life. Historically Christianity lacks the moral authority to criticise anyone else for brutality. I don't accept with your blinkered few of life that you carry any moral authority or superiority either.

It's not that I don't recognise the past deeds of Christianity as evil, it's more that I don't see how it's relevant to what is happening with Islam in 2017.

But please, do tell us how extremist islam is okay to ignore because of the past Christian deeds.   I think that's the definition of a spineless apologetic, no?
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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1924 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 3:26am
 
I am not responsible for what you think. I am responsible for what I say just as you are accountable for what you say. you wrote.

Quote:
Actually extremist catholics, protestants and jews are different to extremist muslims because extremist catholics, protestants and jews don't go around blowing up people,


You were wrong. The Irgun the terrorist Zionist organisation blew up the king David hotel in Jerusalem it is considered the founding act of modern day terrorism.



The stern Gang another Zionist Terrorist organisation perpetrated the Deir Yassin massacre. The IRA a terrorist Catholic Irish organisation was responsible for a vast number of bombings in London and Northern Ireland, as was the protestant Ulster defence league.

To state the above indicates that you either did not know what you are talking about or you were being deliberately deceptive. which is it?
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1925 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 3:40am
 
Lastone wrote on Sep 22nd, 2017 at 3:26am:
I am not responsible for what you think. I am responsible for what I say just as you are accountable for what you say. you wrote.

Quote:
Actually extremist catholics, protestants and jews are different to extremist muslims because extremist catholics, protestants and jews don't go around blowing up people,


You were wrong. The Irgun the terrorist Zionist organisation blew up the king David hotel in Jerusalem it is considered the founding act of modern day terrorism.



The stern Gang another Zionist Terrorist organisation perpetrated the Deir Yassin massacre. The IRA a terrorist Catholic Irish organisation was responsible for a vast number of bombings in London and Northern Ireland, as was the protestant Ulster defence league.

To state the above indicates that you either did not know what you are talking about or you were being deliberately deceptive. which is it?

about terrorist acts in 2017?
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Disclaimer for Mothra per POST so it is forever acknowledged: Saying 'Islam' or 'Muslims' doesn't mean ALL muslims. This does not target individual muslims who's opinion I am not aware of.
 
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1926 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 11:17am
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 22nd, 2017 at 12:25am:
Actually extremist catholics, protestants and jews are different to extremist muslims because extremist catholics, protestants and jews don't go around blowing up people


Thats right alevine - they don't need to, as the moderate ones do it for them. How many people do you think are blown up every day by the moderate "non-extremist" American government? Do you reckon the number of innocents killed by extremist muslims pales in comparison to the number of innocents killed by "non-extremist" catholics, protestants and jews?
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:
Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1927 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 2:32pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 21st, 2017 at 11:31pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Sep 21st, 2017 at 11:12pm:
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 21st, 2017 at 11:06pm:
Views outside of Australia are considered at variance to the views inside the Australian muslim community? Really? I'd be glad to see reports on this as so far what we've witnessed is mass rallying against cartoons, videos of mohammed, majority opposition to same sex marriage, disproportionate amount of muslim women in the workforce compared to non-muslim women. Not to mention that what goes on in the wider 1.6Billion Muslim community does indeed matter to the minority muslim community in Australia. Why? Because we know that islam is seeing a growth in the conservative interpretation of it. Nothing suggests that a conservative muslim somehow becomes a moderate muslim the moment they arrive in Australia.  So the key is to help ALL of islam reform, not just parts in Australia.  It's the only way to prevent the spread of the crazy dangerous interpretations, and instead to try and keep the 'well meaning' ones.


Several hundred protesters in Sydney represent only a minority of Muslims in Australia, Alevine.   When you have hundreds of thousands on the street you can claim a majority viewpoint.   Roll Eyes

I am unsure why you're upset by a "dispropornate" number of Muslim women in the workforce, compared to non-Muslim women.  If that was true, that's actually a good thing as it means that there will be fewer Muslim kids as the women are too busy working to have and care for them!   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes



Wait, you thought disproportionate meant a greater amount of  muslim women in the workforce than non-muslim women? Grin Grin Grin Grin  Yeah, right.   Think again.


So, now you're claiming that because they are recent arrivals (for the most part) Muslim women aren't represented equally compared to non-Muslim women?  Appears they can't win, no matter which way they go, Alevine.

Tell me, how many first-generation European women migrants were represented in the Australian work force in the first 10-15 years of their arrival?  Mmmm?  Going to condemn them as well or only Muslims deserve your ire?

Quote:
And to suggest that a majority viewpoint can only be claimed by the NUMBEr of people IN a protest is so ridiculous. By that logic climate change doesn't have majority support. In fact, same sex marriage can't possibly claim majority support.


Well, it's a sure way of counting the numbers, Alevine.  All you're going on is your prejudice.  I wonder, how many Muslims do you know personally?   One?  Two?  None?   I suspect like all the Islamophobes here, its the last, right?   Get back to us when you actually know some Muslims yourself, Alevine, otherwise you are just spouting Islamophobic prejudice.   Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1928 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 2:38pm
 
sir prince duke alevine wrote on Sep 22nd, 2017 at 12:25am:
Actually extremist catholics, protestants and jews are different to extremist muslims because extremist catholics, protestants and jews don't go around blowing up people, driving over people with trucks, crashing planes into buildings.


No, they just murder them with guns, machettes and other implements of destruction:

Quote:
Mark Juergensmeyer, a former president of the American Academy of Religion, has argued that there has been a global rise in religious nationalism after the Cold War due to a post-colonial collapse of confidence in Western models of nationalism and the rise of globalization.[18][19] Juergensmeyer categorizes contemporary Christian terrorists as being a part of "religious activists from Algeria to Idaho, who have come to hate secular governments with an almost transcendent passion and dream of revolutionary changes that will establish a godly social order in the rubble of what the citizens of most secular societies regard as modern, egalitarian democracies".[20]

According to terrorism expert David C. Rapoport, a "religious wave", or cycle, of terrorism, dates from approximately 1979 to the present. According to Rapoport, this wave most prominently features Islamic terrorism, but also includes terrorism by Christians and other religious groups that may have been influenced by Islamic terrorism.[21]
Central African Republic
See also: Central African Republic conflict under the Djotodia administration

Anti-balaka groups destroyed almost all mosques in the Central African Republic unrest.[22][23] In 2014, Amnesty International reported several massacres committed by the Anti-balaka against Muslim civilians, forcing thousands of Muslims to flee the country.[24][25] Other sources report incidents of Muslims being cannibalized.[26][27]

While anti-balaka groups have been frequently described as Christian militias in the media, this has been denied by Church leaders. Bishop Juan José Aguirre said: "But in no sense can it be said that the anti-balaka is a Christian group. The anti-balaka are made up of people of all kinds, terribly enraged, and including many people whom we call the 'dispossessed' – bandits, ex-prisoners, delinquents, criminals – who have got involved in these groups and are now extending, like a plague of locusts, across the whole of the CAR, murdering Muslims".[28] The Tony Blair Faith Foundation has also pointed out the presence of animists in anti-balaka groups.[29] However, there have been reports that many members of Anti-balaka groups have forcibly converted Muslims to Christianity.[30][31][32][33]

On 20 January 2014, Catherine Samba-Panza, the mayor of Bangui, was elected as the interim president in the second round voting.[34] The election of Samba-Panza was welcomed by Ban Ki-moon, the UN Secretary-General.[35] Samba-Panza was viewed as having been neutral and away from clan clashes. Her arrival to the presidency was generally accepted by the anti-balaka. Following the election, Samba-Panza made a speech in the parliament appealing to the anti-balaka to put down their weapons.[36]

The next day anti-Muslim violence continued in Bangui,[37] just days after the Muslim former Health Minister Dr. Joseph Kalite was lynched outside the Central Mosque[38] and at least nine other people were killed when attacked when a mob, some of who were from Christian self-defence groups, looted shops in the Muslim-majority Miskine neighbourhood of Bangui.[39] As of 20 January, the ICRC reported that it had buried about 50 bodies within 48 hours.[40] It also came after a mob killed two people whom they accused of being Muslim, then dragged the bodies through the streets and burnt them.[41] Within the previous month, about 1,000 people had died.[42] On 4 February 2014, a local priest said 75 people were killed in the town of Boda, in Lobaye prefecture.[43] In the southwest, anti-balaka militants attacked Guen in early February resulting in the deaths of 60 people, according to Father Rigobert Dolongo, who also said that he had helped bury the bodies of the dead, at least 27 of whom died on the first day of the attack and 43 others the next day. As a result, hundreds of Muslim refugees sought shelter at a church in Carnot.[44]

In May 2014, it was reported that around 600,000 people in CAR were internally displaced with 160,000 of these in the capital Bangui. The Muslim population of Bangui had dropped from 138,000 to 900. The national health system had collapsed and over half of the total population of 4.6 million were said to be in need of immediate aid. Also from December 2013 to May 2014, 100,000 people had fled to neighbouring Cameroon, Chad and the Democratic Republic of Congo bringing the number of CAR refugees in these countries to about 350,000.[45] Amnesty International blamed the anti-balaka militia of causing a "Muslim exodus of historic proportions.[46] Some Muslims of the country were also weary of the French presence in MISCA, with the French accused of not doing enough to stop attacks by Anti-balaka militias. One of the cited reasons for the difficulty in stopping attacks by anti-balaka militias was the mob nature of these attacks.[47]

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1929 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 2:40pm
 
[cont'd from previous post] Quote:
India
Tripura
Further information: Tripura rebellion

The National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT), is a rebel group that seeks the secession of Tripura, North-East India, and is a proscribed terrorist organization in India. Group activities have been described as Christian terrorists engaging in terrorist violence motivated by their Christian beliefs.[48][49][50] The NLFT includes in its aims the forced conversion of all tribespeople in Tripura to Christianity.[51] The NLFT says that it is fighting not only for the removal of Bengali immigrants from the tribal areas, "but also for the tribal areas of the state to become overtly Christian", and "has warned members of the tribal community that they may be attacked if they do not accept its Christian agenda".[52] The NLFT is listed as a terrorist organization in the Prevention of Terrorism Act, 2002.[53] The state government contends that the Baptist Church of Tripura supplies arms and gives financial support to the NLFT.[54][55][56] Reports from the state government and Indian media describe activities such as the acquisition by the NLFT of explosives through the Noapara Baptist Church in Tripura,[56] and threats of killing Hindus celebrating religious festivals.[57] Over 20 Hindus in Tripura were reported to have been killed by the NLFT from 1999 to 2001 for resisting forced conversion to Christianity.[58] According to Hindus in the area, there have also been forced conversions of tribal villagers to Christianity by armed NLFT militants.[58] These forcible conversions, sometimes including the use of "rape as a means of intimidation", have also been noted by academics outside of India.[59] In 2000, the NLFT broke into a temple and gunned down a popular Hindu preacher popularly known as Shanti Kali.[60]

Nagaland

Further information: Ethnic conflict in Nagaland
See also: 2015 Indian counter-insurgency operation in Myanmar and 2015 Manipur ambush

The Nationalist Socialist Council of Nagaland (NSCN) is also a Christian[61] Naga nationalist militant group operating in North India.[62][63] The main aim of the organization is to establish a sovereign Christian state, "Nagalim",[64] unifying all the areas inhabited by the Naga people in Northeast India and Burma.[65] The organization's slogan is "Nagaland for Christ".[66][67][68][69][70][71] Its manifesto is based on the principle of Socialism for economic development and a Baptist Christian religious outlook.[72] In some of their documents the NSCN has called for recognizing only Christianity in Nagalim.[73] They believe in Christian theocracy.[74] The NSCN has been declared a terrorist organisation in India under the Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act, 1967.[75] It is believed that the organisation primarily raises funds through trafficking drugs from Burma and selling smuggled weapons to other insurgent groups in the region.[76] The group reportedly indulges in kidnapping, assassination, extortion, forced conversion,[77] and other terrorist activities.[78][79][80][81][82][83][84][85][86]

On 3 August 2015 NSCN leader T. Muivah signed a peace accord with the Government of India in the presence of Prime Minister Narendra Modi, Home Minister Rajnath Singh, and NSA Ajit Doval.[87] However, NSCN also joined with a militia organization named the United Liberation Front of Western South East Asia, along with other Northeast Indian terrorist groups,[88][89] and shortly after broke off peace talks with the Indian government.[citation needed]

Lebanon

Maronite Christian militias perpetrated the Karantina and Tel al-Zaatar massacres of Palestinians and Lebanese Muslims during Lebanon's 1975–1990 civil war. The 1982 Sabra and Shatila massacre, which targeted unarmed Palestinian refugees for rape and murder, was considered to be genocide by the United Nations General Assembly.[90] A British photographer present during the incident said that "People who committed the acts of murder that I saw that day were wearing [crucifixes] and were calling themselves Christians."[91]
Uganda

The Lord's Resistance Army, a guerrilla army, was engaged in an armed rebellion against the Ugandan government in 2005. It has been accused of using child soldiers and of committing numerous crimes against humanity; including massacres, abductions, mutilation, torture, rape, and using forced child labourers as soldiers, porters, and sex slaves.[48][92] A quasi-religious movement that mixes some aspects of Christian beliefs with its own brand of spiritualism,[93][94] it is led by Joseph Kony, who proclaims himself the spokesperson of God and a spirit medium, primarily of the "Holy Spirit" which the Acholi believe can represent itself in many manifestations.[95][95][96][97] LRA fighters wear rosary beads and recite passages from the Bible before battle.[93][98][99][100][101][102]

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1930 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 2:40pm
 
Brian Ross wrote Reply #1912 - Yesterday at 3:58pm

Quote:
According to you.  According to them, they are obeying the teachings of Christ, Moses.
&
According to you.  According to them, they are going to be rewarded for doing what they believe are the teachings of Christ, Moses.
&
I have proved that the past atrocities were undertaken as part of the early beliefs of Christianity, Moses.   You keep refusing to accept that because it embarrasses you.
&
According to you.  According to them?  Nope, they believed they were obeying the doctrine of Christ as they had been taught it by their Church.
&
I have proved that the past atrocities were undertaken as part of the early beliefs of Christianity, Moses.   You keep refusing to accept that because it embarrasses you.
&
According to you.  According to them?  Nope, they believed they were obeying the doctrine of Christ as they had been taught it by their Church.
&
According to you, a hypocrite, Moses?   Why should we believe you when we have 2017 years of history which counters your claims?
&
According to you, a hypocrite, Moses?   Tsk, tsk, your credibility is in tatters.
&
I am terrified of nothing, Moses.  Islam can reform.  Islam can stay moribund.  Christianity can reform, Christianity can stay moribund.    I am irreligious, Moses.  I have nothing invested in believing in a sky fairy, unlike you.   When you admit the error of your ways, we might be able to talk....


I believe you're intentionally being dishonest (a liar), in order to excuse islamic decreed atrocities.

My perspective has always been that no matter what the men who committed atrocities in the past may have thought, they were not acting within the maxims presented by Christ as the true path for his followers.

You twist and turn always trying to establish that Christianity is as evil as islam.

We can settle this once and for all.

You show one teaching of Christ which exhorts Christians to commit atrocities. I will then concede.

If you can't I reserve the right to call you a liar.
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1931 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 2:41pm
 
Lastone wrote Reply #1920 - Today at 12:03am
Quote:
Fine if it will help you to get off your moral high horse. Extremist Catholics, Protestants, and Jews are no different to Muslim extremists


There is one incontestable difference betweem extremist catholics, protestants and the muslim extremists.

The catholics and protestants are disobeying what their founder Christ taught.

The muslims are 100% obeying the teachings of muhammad and the verses in the qur'an.

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1932 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 2:42pm
 
[cont'd from previous post] Quote:
United States
See also: Anti-abortion violence in the United States and Terrorism in the United States

Contemporary American Christian terrorism can be motivated by a violent desire to implement a Reconstructionist or Dominionist ideology.[103] Dominion Theology insists that Christians are called by God to (re)build society on Christian values to subjugate the earth and establish dominion over all things, as a prerequisite for the second coming of Christ.[104] Political violence motivated by dominion theology is a violent extension of the desire to impose a select version of Christianity on other Christians, as well as on non-Christians.

At least 11 people have been killed in attacks on abortion clinics in the United States since 1993. After 1981, members of groups such as the Army of God began attacking abortion clinics and doctors across the United States.[105][106][107] A number of terrorist attacks were attributed by Bruce Hoffman to individuals and groups with ties to the Christian Identity and Christian Patriot movements, including the Lambs of Christ.[108] A group called Concerned Christians was deported from Israel on suspicion of planning to attack holy sites in Jerusalem at the end of 1999; they believed that their deaths would "lead them to heaven".[109][110]

Eric Robert Rudolph carried out the Centennial Olympic Park bombing in 1996, as well as subsequent attacks on an abortion clinic and a lesbian nightclub. Michael Barkun, a professor at Syracuse University, considers Rudolph to likely fit the definition of a Christian terrorist. James A. Aho, a professor at Idaho State University, argues that religious considerations inspired Rudolph only in part.[111]

Terrorism scholar Aref M. Al-Khattar has listed The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord (CSA), Defensive Action, the Montana Freemen, and some "Christian militia" as groups that "can be placed under the category of far-right-wing terrorism" that "has a religious (Christian) component".[112]

In 1996 three men—Charles Barbee, Robert Berry and Jay Merelle—were charged with two bank robberies and bombings at the banks, a Spokane newspaper, and a Planned Parenthood office in Washington State. The men were anti-Semitic Christian Identity theorists who believed that God wanted them to carry out violent attacks and that such attacks would hasten the ascendancy of the Aryan race.[113]

1n 1993 Dr. David Gunn was shot and killed by an opponent of abortion during a protest outside his clinic in Pensacola, Fla. His death was the first known killing of an abortion provider in the United States. The gunman, Michael F. Griffin, shot Dr. Gunn three times in the back as he approached the rear entrance of the clinic, and Mr. Griffin turned himself over to the police just moments later. Mr. Griffin was convicted of the murder in March 1994 and was sentenced to life in prison.

Anti-abortion violence returned to Pensacola one year after the death of Dr. Gunn when Paul J. Hill, a well-known anti-abortion protester, shot and killed Dr. John Britton and a clinic volunteer, James Barrett, outside a women’s health center in July 1994. Mr. Barrett’s wife, June, was also wounded in the shooting. Mr. Hill, a former minister, was well known for advocating violence against abortion doctors, and he had praised the killing of Dr. Gunn. He was arrested shortly after the shooting as he tried to flee the scene. He was convicted in December 1994 of first-degree murder and was sentenced to death. In the interview before his execution in 2003, Mr. Hill said that the killing of Dr. Gunn in 1993 had inspired him to kill Dr. Britton. ”I believe in the short and long term, more and more people will act on the principles for which I stand,” he said. ”I’m willing and I feel very honored that they are most likely going to kill me for what I did.”

Dr. George Tiller, one of the few doctors in the United States who provided abortions late in pregnancy, was a frequent target of anti-abortion violence and was killed in 2009 by Scott Roeder as he stood in the foyer of his church. A witness who was serving as an usher alongside Dr. Tiller at the church that day told the court that Mr. Roeder entered the foyer, put a gun to the doctor’s head and pulled the trigger. At trial, Mr. Roeder admitted to killing Dr. Tiller and said he did it to protect unborn babies. He was convicted of first-degree murder and sentenced to life in prison. At his sentencing, he told the court that God’s judgment would ”sweep over this land like a prairie wind.” Dr. Tiller was shot once before, in 1993, by Shelley Shannon, an anti-abortion activist who compared abortion providers to Hitler and said she believed that “justifiable force” was necessary to stop abortions. Ms. Shannon was sentenced to 10 years in prison for the shooting of Dr. Tiller and later confessed to vandalizing and burning a string of abortion clinics in California, Nevada and Oregon.

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1933 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 2:44pm
 
[con't from previous post]
Quote:
James Kopp was convicted of the murder of Dr. Barnett Slepian, an obstetrician who provided abortion services in the Buffalo area, and has been named a suspect in the shooting of several abortion providers in Canada. Mr. Kopp hid in the woods behind Dr. Slepian’s home in October 1998 and shot him through the window with a high-powered rifle, killing him as he stood in his kitchen with his family. Dr. Slepian had just returned from a memorial service for his father when he was killed. Mr. Kopp spent several years on the run in Mexico, Ireland and France before he was captured and extradited to the Unites States. He was convicted of a state charge of second-degree murder in 2003 and sentenced to 25 years in jail. He was convicted in 2007 on a separate federal charge and sentenced to life in prison. The authorities in Canada also suspect Mr. Kopp in the nonlethal attacks on several abortion providers there who were shot through the windows of their homes. He was charged with the 1995 attempted murder of Dr. Hugh Short, an abortion provider in Ontario, although the charges were dropped after his conviction in New York. The police in Canada also named him a suspect in the 1997 shooting of Dr. Jack Fainman in Winnipeg and the 1994 shooting of Dr. Garson Romalis in Vancouver, which was the first attack on an abortion provider in Canada.

In 2015, Robert Doggart, a 63 year old mechanical engineer, was indicted for solicitation to commit a civil rights violation by intending to damage or destroy religious property after communicating that he intended to amass weapons to attack a Muslim enclave in Delaware County, New York.[114] Doggart, a member of several private militia groups, communicated to an FBI source in a phone call that he had an M4 carbine with "500 rounds of ammunition" that he intended to take to the Delaware County enclave, along with a handgun, molotov cocktails and a machete. The FBI source recorded him saying "if it gets down to the machete, we will cut them to shreds".[115] Doggart had previously travelled to a site in Dover, Tennessee described in chain emails as a "jihadist training camp", and found that the claims were wrong. Doggart pleaded guilty in an April plea bargain stating he had "willfully and knowingly sent a message in interstate commerce containing a true threat" to injure someone. The plea bargain was struck down by a judge because it did not contain enough facts to constitute a true threat.[116][117] Doggart stood as an independent candidate in Tennessee's 4th congressional district, losing with 6.4% of the vote.[118] None of the charges against him are terrorism related.[119][120][121][122]

The November 2015 Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood shooting, in which three were killed and nine injured, was described as "a form of terrorism" by Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper.[123] The gunman, Robert Lewis Dear, was described as a "delusional" man[124] who had written on a cannabis internet forum that "sinners" would "burn in hell" during the end times, and had also written about smoking marijuana and propositioned women for sex.[125][126] He had praised the Army of God, saying that attacks on abortion clinics are "God's work".[127] Deer's ex-wife said he had put glue on a lock of a Planned Parenthood clinic, and in court documents for their divorce she said "He claims to be a Christian and is extremely evangelistic, but does not follow the Bible in his actions. He says that as long as he believes he will be saved, he can do whatever he pleases. He is obsessed with the world coming to an end." Authorities said that he spoke of “no more baby parts” in a rambling interview after his arrest.
Global ideologies
See also: Anti-abortion violence, Christian Identity, and Christian Patriot movement

Christian Identity is a loosely affiliated global group of churches and individuals devoted to a racialized theology which asserts that Northern European whites are the direct descendants of the lost tribes of Israel, making them God's chosen people. It has been associated with groups such as the Aryan Nations, the Aryan Republican Army, the Army of God, the Phineas Priesthood, and The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord. It has been cited as an influence on a number of terrorist attacks around the world, including the 2002 Soweto bombings.[128][129][130][131]

These groups are estimated to have 2,000 members in the United States,[132] and an unknown number of members in Canada and the rest of the Commonwealth of Nations. Due to the promotion of Christian Identity doctrines through radio broadcasts and later through the Internet, an additional 50,000 unaffiliated individuals are thought to hold Christian Identity beliefs.[132]

[Source]
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Brian Ross
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Representative of me

Posts: 40467
Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #1934 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 2:56pm
 
moses wrote on Sep 22nd, 2017 at 2:40pm:
I believe you're intentionally being dishonest (a liar), in order to excuse islamic decreed atrocities.


Wrong.  Like so much of what you claim, dead wrong.  I have challenged you before and I will challenge you again to quote back to me one post from me (in context) where I have apologised/excused one act of Terrorism.  You failed dismally before, you will fail dismally again.   Roll Eyes

Quote:
My perspective has always been that no matter what the men who committed atrocities in the past may have thought, they were not acting within the maxims presented by Christ as the true path for his followers.


How easy it is for you to ignore that these men (and women) believed they were acting within the teachings of your Christ.  How easy is for you to apologise and excuse their acts of Terrorism and hatred, Moses.  How bloody typical of the Christian mindset.   Roll Eyes

Quote:
You twist and turn always trying to establish that Christianity is as evil as islam.


I do not have twist or turn anything, Moses.  You do, to excuse Christianity and its outrages.

Voltaire remarked, “Men who believe absurdities will commit atrocities."    Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

Jesus' cleansing of the Temple is an example of direct violent action by Jesus, Moses.   Tsk, tsk, tripped up by your own religion...   Roll Eyes
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