freediver wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2013 at 6:27pm:


And? LOL, are you seriously under the delusion that there is some sort of contradiction between those two quotes? Perhaps you can  start by looking at the full quotes:

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2013 at 1:23pm:


and...

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2013 at 3:38pm:



Are you still having difficulty comprehending this extreeeeeemely simple fact that 80% of muslims live outside the arab middle east, and 60% live in south and south-east asia?

freediver wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2013 at 6:27pm:


Right, fantastic, hallelujah - so we can both agree that I was wrong - that you were *NOT* trying to dispute the claim that Turkey is a relevant example of muslims being able to adopt and embrace secularism, democracy and freedom right in what you term the "heart of islam". 

Right?....

no I didn't think so... 

freediver wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2013 at 7:10pm:


My bad - clearly they are still in the grips of totalitarianism - along with France and Belgium.

freediver wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2013 at 7:10pm:


As are most government institutions believe it or not.

Funny though that this supposedly deeply regressive and backward society didn't cause some sort of mass revolution and force the government to back down. Even the most tyranical autocracies have to pay some heed to the will of the people - everyone knows that.

Bwian said "I trust Muslims"
All of them bwian...  do you twust them all?
Considering Indonesia is a self confessed corrupt populace...  do you trust all Muslims bwian?
Do you trust the various Islamic groups that have been proscribed?
Have you ever walked through Lakemba?  Seen the bullet holes in the doors and buildings on Parramatta rd?
Do you trust the Muslim outlaw bikies bwian, they're Muslims after all.
Do you trust the Islamic states enough to live there?
just what did you mean bwian?  hmmm.

It's easy to be hostile towards Islam. Especially when you are surrounded by Muslims.

Brian Ross wrote on Dec 22^nd, 2013 at 11:09pm:



brian,

Logically, if that is true, if you trust moslems, and if you believe in the benign intentions of moslems towards people such as yourself,
....then logically, do you also trust that those ISLAMIC religious 'artefacts' also declare a benign intention towards people such as yourself ?

[i.e. of course, i am referring to those ISLAMIC religious 'artefacts', the Koran, and the Hadith, which moslems religiously venerate, and claim to be inspired by.]



brian,

If the answer to my question is no, then what is it [which you suggest], that inspires and motivates those who refer to themselves as a 'moslem' ?




The Koran;

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29


"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123


"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111





The Hadith;


hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260







brian,

Why do you trust in the declared 'good intentions' of the of moslems [towards those who are not moslems] - in the face of the evidence of moslem religious violence seen everywhere ?

But then you out-of-hand refuse to acknowledge the violent declarations contained in those ISLAMIC religious 'artefacts', the Koran, and the Hadith, which all moslems religiously venerate, and which they [moslems] claim to be religiously inspired by ?

"....moslem religious violence seen everywhere."

.....want to see the body count for this month brian ???


http://thereligionofpeace.com/

Quote:


So saying that they believe in the death penalty for apostasy, adultery etc doesn't count?

If you had been alive while the Japanese were making their way south towards Australia, would you have been telling everyone not to worry because until they personally demonstrate their intentions towards you, you must assume they are benign?

I see the point went straight over your head. We are discussing intent Gandalf, not short-term potential.