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spineless apologetics (Read 350805 times)

brumbie Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 994 Gender:	Re: spineless apologetics Reply #630 - Dec 30^th, 2013 at 12:00am Lol..how do you answer that?
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brumbie

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #631 - Dec 30^th, 2013 at 12:04am

polite_gandalf wrote on Dec 29^th, 2013 at 11:38pm:

please stay on topic brumbie - if you want to talk about Ian's views on Nigeria, feel free to start a new thread.

Unless of course it relates somehow to "spineless apologetics".

amazing..spineless apologetics has nothing to do with the situation in Nigeria,,,sorry gandalph but please explain why you don't think they are attached?

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brumbie Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 994 Gender:	Re: spineless apologetics Reply #632 - Dec 30^th, 2013 at 12:22am EVERY major war going on now is because of who Gandalf? Read the original statement of this thread and then tell me what we are talking about on page 43?..you are possibly misleading yourself Gandalf?
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Pete Waldo

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #633 - Dec 30^th, 2013 at 12:49am

Stratos wrote on Dec 29^th, 2013 at 9:51pm:

Ooh fun, are we allowed to take things out of context again?

Pete Waldo wrote on Dec 29^th, 2013 at 9:31pm:

Yet somehow you can't seem to see that Muhammad's people follow Satan, even as you are compelled to prostrate yourself to the Quraish pagan's black stone idol and Kaaba five times a day.

Oh come on, modern Christianity has a bunch of pagan objects involved.

It isn't unusual for an unregenerate to desire to judge the Gospel according to the deeds of men, rather than to measure the deeds of men, according to the Gospel.
In this case, Roman Church idolatry has no more to do with the Gospel, than did the Roman Church murder of Jews, Muslims AND CHRISTIANS. Let's instead measure Roman Church statuary and icons against what the scriptures say:

Exd 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

1Cr 10:14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.

While followers of the false prophet Muhammad are REQUIRED to prostrate themselves toward the Quraish pagan's black stone idol and kaaba in Mecca five times a day while they "pray in the vain repetitions as the heathen do" in the names of the Arabian pagan deity "Allah" and his "messenger" Muhammad.
falseprophetmuhammad.com/the_name_allah.htm

They are even obligated to travel to it and march around it, as the Arabian pagan's did in Arabian moon, sun, star and jinn-devil worship, before Muhammad was ever born.
brotherpete.com/hajj_umrah.htm

It would help if you tried to educate yourself about such matters, rather than attempting to engaging in discussion, while insisting on self-imposed abject ignorance.
religionresearchinstitute.org/

Why not start with the nonexistent history of Mecca prior to the 4th century AD:
ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1388067196

Adding to your difficulty is that you don't understand, why you can't understand:

1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Stratos wrote on Dec 29^th, 2013 at 9:51pm:

Extremely weak argument for a Christian to use.

No, it would be a weak argument for a Roman Catholic to use. Jesus castigated the Pharisees for the same:

Mar 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

« Last Edit: Dec 30^th, 2013 at 5:00am by Pete Waldo »

Truth can never be told so as to be understood and not be believed. ~ William Blake

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Pete Waldo

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #634 - Dec 30^th, 2013 at 1:07am

Stratos wrote on Dec 29^th, 2013 at 9:51pm:

Also pagan=bad? since when and why, or is it just your opinion?

I depend on the revelation of God to mankind, for answers regarding the things of the Spirit of God, rather than empty unsupported personal opinion.

Stratos wrote on Dec 29^th, 2013 at 9:51pm:

Or maybe it is the prostrating you don't like?

Quote:

While He was in one of the cities, behold, there was a man covered with leprosy; and when he saw Jesus, he fell on his face and implored Him, saying, "Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean."

Arguing like a Muslim now. Perhaps you are yet another, that is deep down in taqiyyah, while pretending not to be a Muslim.

An individual incident does not make an ordnance. Christians are instructed as to how to pray:

1Th 5:17 Pray without ceasing.

That describes relationship, in constant contact through the Spirit, not vain ritual. We are also instructed specifically as to how NOT to pray:

Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Islam, always and unceasingly, the exact opposite:

From "Infidel" Ali explains part of salat, "You say Praise be to Allah thirty-three times; God forgive me thirty-three times; Allah is great thirty-three times; and then, if you choose, you may also say Gratitude to Allah."

Islam - the exact opposite.
falseprophetmuhammad.com

Stratos wrote on Dec 29^th, 2013 at 9:51pm:

Nope, guess not.

Pete Waldo wrote on Dec 29^th, 2013 at 9:31pm:

What if the world were like that, rather than 1/4 of the world following Muhammad's alter-ego "Allah", who loves those that engage in very thing you are running and hiding from - the very thing you are vainly wishing Islam is not:

Games up Gandalf. Everyone is saying you aren't a real Muslim .......

No it is his books, and his own brethren, that indicate he is a hypocrite:

"Summarized Sahih Al-Bukhari" - Maktba Dar-us-Salam's page 580
Chapter 2. The best among the people is that believer who strives his utmost in Allah's Cause with both his life and property.
footnotes:
[1] "Al-Jihad (the holy fighting) in Allah's Cause (with full force of number and weaponry) is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its pillars (on which it stands). By Jihad Islam is established, Allah's Word is made superior, [His Word being La ilaha ill-Allah (which means: none has the right to be worshipped but Allah)] and His Religion (Islam) is propagated. By abandoning Jihad (may Allah protect us from that) Islam is destroyed and the Muslims fall into an inferior position; there honour is lost, their lands are stolen, their rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim, and he who tries to escape from this duty, or does not in his innermost heart wish to fulfill this duty, dies with one of the qualities of a hypocrite.
[2] Of course, nobody can offer Salat (prayer) and observe Saum (fast) incessantly, and since the Muslim fighter is rewarded as if he was doing such good impossible deeds, no possible deed equals Jihad in reward.

Stratos wrote on Dec 29^th, 2013 at 9:51pm:

...... so it must be true. Can't have shades of grey and all that now can we?

Pete Waldo wrote on Dec 29^th, 2013 at 9:31pm:

Quran Surah 61:4 Truly allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure.

How amusing you pick the one that says "battle array" when every other translation says rows or ranks.

I generally try to quote from the most sanitized Yusuf Ali translation (that you are criticizing) in order to not have to waste time with a cacophony of Muhammad's apologist's whining about translation.
Do you really believe there is a difference between a verse that describes the dress of the aggressors, or the "ranks" or "columns" of military formation, of Islam's imperialistic slaughterers?

Stratos wrote on Dec 29^th, 2013 at 9:51pm:

I'm not sure of the context, but seeing as it comes directly after a passage about staying making sure to do what you say you will do, to be more about standing as one in faith than an actual physical fight

Utterly ridiculous. Since you can't possibly be that ignorant about Islam, I will presume that you are indeed a Muslim engaged in dissimulation. Try these:

Surah 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Quran Surah 9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah. then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

Bukhari, V1 B2 #24 Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah...

Qur'an 33:26 "Allah took down the People of the Scripture Book. He cast terror into their hearts.

falseprophetmuhammad.com/jihad_islamic_terrorism.htm

« Last Edit: Dec 30^th, 2013 at 5:10am by Pete Waldo »

Truth can never be told so as to be understood and not be believed. ~ William Blake

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Stratos

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #635 - Dec 30^th, 2013 at 7:53am

Pete Waldo wrote on Dec 30^th, 2013 at 12:49am:

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above

So every image of an angel, God, or any depiction of the heaven is a sin? I wonder how many Sunday School teachers have been willingly committing sin by showing Bible picture stories that involve these things?
Pete Waldo wrote on Dec 30^th, 2013 at 12:49am:

While followers of the false prophet Muhammad are REQUIRED to prostrate themselves toward the Quraish pagan's black stone idol and kaaba in Mecca five times a day while they "pray in the vain repetitions as the heathen do" in the names of the Arabian pagan deity "Allah" and his "messenger" Muhammad.
falseprophetmuhammad.com/the_name_allah.htm

Pete Waldo wrote on Dec 30^th, 2013 at 12:49am:

No, it would be a weak argument for a Roman Catholic to use. Jesus castigated the Pharisees for the same:

Well I sure hope you didn't celebrate Christmas a few days ago. After all, it is based on the Pagan celebration of the Winter Solstice. Why exactly is the stone pagan by the way, traditionally it was said to have been built by Abraham?

Pete Waldo wrote on Dec 30^th, 2013 at 1:07am:

An individual incident does not make an ordnance

Oh good. I'm going to remember you said that next time you decide to depict all Muslims as people who buy the blood of Christians to wash their hands with.

Pete Waldo wrote on Dec 30^th, 2013 at 1:07am:

From "Infidel" Ali explains part of salat, "You say Praise be to Allah thirty-three times; God forgive me thirty-three times; Allah is great thirty-three times; and then, if you choose, you may also say Gratitude to Allah."

It's called ritual and it is commonplace in most religions. Just because it isn't part of yours doesn't make it a bad thing.

Pete Waldo wrote on Dec 30^th, 2013 at 1:07am:

Fair point, but context is everything isn't it? Lets have a look at that verse with the previous one.

Quote:

Grievously odious is it in the sight of Allah that ye say that which ye do not.
Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure.

It is about hypocrisy, not war, or are you seriously going to argue that Muslims should fight only in straight lines?

Pete Waldo wrote on Dec 30^th, 2013 at 1:07am:

Utterly ridiculous. Since you can't possibly be that ignorant about Islam, I will presume that you are indeed a Muslim engaged in dissimulation. Try these:

Nope, not a Muslim. I also regularly have arguments on this forum about gay rights and the rights of refugees, doesn't make me one of them either. Also, Taqiyya as you are describing is not Koranic, it describes the practice of hiding your belief to escape a personal threat.

Also, cute how you try and change the passage you were defending previously. I wasn't arguing about other verses, I was simply demonstrating that the passage you used was out of context.

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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freediver

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #636 - Dec 30^th, 2013 at 8:33am

Quote:

seeing as the survey of Malaysian Muslim opinions you quoted and seem so firmly to believe in apparently shows that the majority of Malaysian Muslims believe in stoning and head chopping if Sharia law was to be in place.

You misunderstand. The question was a simple one - do you support the death penalty for apostasy, or stoning people to death for adultery. There were no preconditions attached, other than confining the question to those who support shariah law in the first place. It was a survey of people's opinions, not what actually happens.

Quote:

This is your assertion, is it not?

My assertion was a simple one. There was a survey. These are the results.

Quote:

so now tell us in these places where sharia law is in place why there are zero cases of stoning and head chopping. Simple enough, stop evading and answer the relevant question.

I have explained this, many times. Not sure why you keep repeating the question. If you do not comprehend my response, just say so, but so far you seem oblivious to it.

Quote:

Again, key word serious debate.

Of course there is serious debate if Anwar ibrahim needs to clarify his coalition's position on the matter.

Quote:

What we are talking about is a policy of a party that received 14% of the vote at the last election. They are a fringe party promoting a fringe issue.

They have 14% of the vote and are promoting a position that is supported by the majority of Muslims. To suggest this happens in the absence of serious debate can only be a deliberate effort at deception.

Quote:

Malays themselves are not supporting them or their policies in droves - thats the point here. Now a majority of Malays supposedly support stoning - well they know which party to vote for to get it, but they don't.

Like I already pointed out, an election is never a referendum on a single issue. The majority of Australians for example supported serious action on climate change for several election cycles before they got what they want.

Quote:

Of course it does. The only "debate" going on was about how much of an embarrassment the issue was for the opposition, and how they should deal with it. Similar to the "debate" that arose when Cory Bernadi' made his statements about gay marriage = bestiality - not a serious debate about the merits of the statement - but rather about how Tony Abbott should deal with such an idiotic statement and person.

And yet we do not have gay marriage in Australia. And we do have serious debate about it.

Stratos:

Quote:

Pretty much every religion has roots in paganism. Paradoxically almost all of them also condemn it. I don't see why this makes Islam any different to any other major religion by appropriating a previous tradition as their own.

What makes Islam different was that it's founder personally went round slaughtering pagans and engaging in ethnic cleansing.

Quote:

Another topic for another thread (actually there is one somewhere I think). The quote was still out of context, and blatantly used the most beneficial translation to make the point he was going for, which was that Muslims are supposed to consider war a good thing.

There is no shortage of calls to arms in Islam. You don't need a "beneficial translation". You just need to look at Muhammed's own example.

Quote:

Ian so far listening to you..you haven't got an opinion but you've always got an argument...would I be correct or do you have a stance on anything?..if at all?

He still hasn't explained what his point is. He still seems to think the survey was of actual laws rather than people's opinions - if he cannot comprehend how they might differ, then everyone else must be wrong.

Quote:

of course, Ive made my political views clear any number of times on this forum. I have only stepped into this thread because of the disinformation being posted. I have happened to spend a considerable amount of time in both Indonesia and Malaysia and know these countries quite well.

Well enough to insist that you know what Muslims believe on the topic without ever having asked them? Well enough to insist that those who do actually ask Muslims what they think must have somehow tricked them?

People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Yadda

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #637 - Dec 30^th, 2013 at 9:53am

ian wrote on Dec 29^th, 2013 at 10:33am:

so, FD says Malaysian Muslims want to stone adulterers to death and execute those convicted of apostasy. so why aren't they doing it?

If they have such strong opinions then what is to stop them putting it into action?

The will is (allegedly) there, the ability under sharia law is there, so whats going on? Where are all the stonings and beheadings? even 1 stoning or beheading?

If moslems reject Allah's law, and do not institute full Sharia [n.b. in what moslems claim, is a moslem majority jurisdiction!], are they still determined [by Allah] to be moslems ?

Can a moslem lawfully institute and obey only part of Allah's law ?

Are Malay moslems, who institute only parts of Allah's law, are they moslems ?

Or does Allah describe such persons who are disobedient to his law, as "the Hypocrites" ?

The Koran instructs moslems, to take no 'Hypocrites' as friends.
And whenever they oppose you [in Allah's way], kill them.
[n.b. ALL ex-moslems, are non-moslems/disbelievers, and worthy of death]

"Why should ye be divided into two parties about the Hypocrites? Allah hath upset them for their (evil) deeds. Would ye guide those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way? For those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way, never shalt thou find the Way.
They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-"
Koran 4.88, 89

Q.
Who are 'the Hypocrites', that are described in the Koran?

A.
Those who pretend to be moslems - but they are not moslems, because they do not '....Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger'.

"Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.
But those who believe and do deeds of righteousness, We shall soon admit to Gardens, with rivers flowing beneath,- their eternal home: Therein shall they have companions pure and holy: We shall admit them to shades, cool and ever deepening."
Koran 4.56, 57

If moslems have doubts about law, the Koran instructs moslems to refer back "to Allah and His Messenger" [i.e. Koran and Sunna of Mohammed].

"O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination.
Hast thou not turned Thy vision to those who declare that they believe in the revelations that have come to thee and to those before thee? Their (real) wish is to resort together for judgment (in their disputes) to the Evil One, though they were ordered to reject him. But Satan's wish is to lead them astray far away (from the right).
When it is said to them: "Come to what Allah hath revealed, and to the Messenger": Thou seest the Hypocrites avert their faces from thee in disgust.
How then, when they are seized by misfortune, because of the deeds which they hands have sent forth? Then their come to thee, swearing by Allah: "We meant no more than good-will and conciliation!"
Those men,-Allah knows what is in their hearts; so keep clear of them, but admonish them, and speak to them a word to reach their very souls.
We sent not a messenger, but to be obeyed, [and] in accordance with the will of Allah. If they had only, when they were unjust to themselves, come unto thee and asked Allah's forgiveness, and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah indeed Oft-returning, Most Merciful.
But no, by the Lord, they can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against Thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction."
Koran 4.59-65

n.b.
"But no, by the Lord, they can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against Thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction."

Those among the moslems who are not obedient, are kufur.

"O ye who believe! take not for protectors your fathers and your brothers if they love infidelity above Faith: if any of you do so, they do wrong."
Koran 9.23, 24

« Last Edit: Dec 30^th, 2013 at 10:06am by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Stratos Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4725	Re: spineless apologetics Reply #638 - Dec 30^th, 2013 at 10:05am What exactly are you arguing for now Yadda? That the majority of people who call themselves Muslims are in fact not? If that is your case, then why do you even care about Islam, as apparently the vast majority of Muslims aren't eve believers according to you?
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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #639 - Dec 30^th, 2013 at 10:18am

Stratos wrote on Dec 30^th, 2013 at 10:05am:

What exactly are you arguing for now Yadda?

That the majority of people who call themselves Muslims are in fact not?

If that is your case, then why do you even care about Islam, as apparently the vast majority of Muslims aren't eve believers according to you?

Stratos,

I have long argued that most 'moslems' are wilfully CORRECTION obedient dis-obedient to their own religion.

And that most 'moslems' are in actual fact the kuffar [infidels], and bound for hell.

And that most 'moslems' are in actual fact the very kuffar [infidels], that moslems claim to despise!

kuffar = = infidel = = a person who hides, denies, or covers the truth = = liar
= = MOSLEM

"Dear muslim, YOU are the kuffar"

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1229682951/0#0
Quote:

You who embrace ISLAM, your own lies and deception, have become a witness against you, before God......

"kuffar" = = "...is an Arabic word meaning.....[an unbeliever] a person....who hides, denies, or covers the truth."

i
Quote:

That the majority of people who call themselves Muslims are in fact not?

If that is your case, then why do you even care about Islam, as apparently the vast majority of Muslims aren't eve believers according to you?

Why do i care ?

I want people like gandalf, to be redeemed.

And not end up in HELL.

And God wants that too.iEzekiel 33:11
Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die.....

« Last Edit: Dec 30^th, 2013 at 12:06pm by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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polite_gandalf

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #640 - Dec 30^th, 2013 at 11:55am

freediver wrote on Dec 30^th, 2013 at 8:33am:

so now tell us in these places where sharia law is in place why there are zero cases of stoning and head chopping. Simple enough, stop evading and answer the relevant question.

I have explained this, many times. Not sure why you keep repeating the question. If you do not comprehend my response, just say so, but so far you seem oblivious to it.

You did not explain it. You just made some lame-arsed throw away line about democracy (which makes no sense in a muslim dominated area like Aceh) and muslims never agreeing on who should be stoned or something. Thats not an explanation at all, and I don't think its unreasonable to ask for further clarification on this. But whats really annoying is how you just deflect every time its brought up. Do us a favour FD, pretend Ian and I are really stupid and spell it out like you would a 5 year old - clearly and non-cryptically.

By the way, Aceh (you know that ISLAMIC state), just this year has removed stoning from its own draft of a new criminal code. Feel free to explain that away with inane thought bubbles about Acehnese society that you know nothing about Tongue

freediver wrote on Dec 30^th, 2013 at 8:33am:

Of course there is serious debate if Anwar ibrahim needs to clarify his coalition's position on the matter.

No more serious than the "debate" about bestiality being a realistic consequence of gay marriage after Tony Abbott intervened to gag Cory Bernadi and distance the coalition from it.

freediver wrote on Dec 30^th, 2013 at 8:33am:

And yet the majority of muslims don't vote for them - they vote for the party that takes a zero tolerance policy towards hudud laws. And whenever PAS bring it up they are roundly howled down by just about everyone.

freediver wrote on Dec 30^th, 2013 at 8:33am:

Yeah, except I don't see Malaysian politicians prance around declaring hudud laws are "the great moral challenge of our time" and placing it front and centre of their policy platform.

But I think you miss the point. Yes, elections are never referendums on single issues, but they are very good guages of which issues are front and centre in people's minds. I always refer back to the Iraq war opposition in Australia, and then seeing John Howard getting re-elected a year later. No doubt a vote for Howard wasn't necessarily an endorsement of the Iraq war, but it did demonstrate where people's priorities were, and it clearly wasn't with disgust over the war. An outside observer could have correctly judged that by re-electing Howard in 2004, the Australian public simply weren't that serious in their opposition to the war.

A similar sort of thing in Malaysia regarding hudud laws. As you say, elections are never about single issues, but they are definitely about a set of key issues. And the fact is, hudud laws are simply not amongst those key issues. Furthermore, the proof in the pudding is that the ruling BN party can proudly and openly declare they are a "zero-tolerance to hudud law" party. Now its possible that Malays flock to the BN in far greater numbers than PAS in spite of their opposition to hudud, but one has to question the political wisdom of BN - whose support base is predominantly Malays - specifically marketing themselves as an anti-hudud party, if Malays are in fact so fond of hudud. Unless of course BN has correctly read the Malay electorate and concluded that such "support" is in fact illusory.

freediver wrote on Dec 30^th, 2013 at 8:33am:

And yet we do not have gay marriage in Australia. And we do have serious debate about it.

Thats not what I was talking about. I was talking about the issue of gay-marriage = bestiality, not the debate over gay marriage itself.

A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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ian

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #641 - Dec 30^th, 2013 at 12:48pm

freediver wrote on Dec 30^th, 2013 at 8:33am:

Its easy enough, post a copy of the survey.

Quote:

My assertion was a simple one. There was a survey. These are the results.

Why are you dodging, post a copy of the survey.

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ian

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #642 - Dec 30^th, 2013 at 12:52pm

freediver wrote on Dec 30^th, 2013 at 8:33am:

why are you lying, I never stated I knew what Muslims believe on this topic, I posted my experiences in their countries, experiences you are lacking. I also questioned the validity of the survey since you cannot validate it in any way other than a website quote. It certainly shows you have lost this argument when you fabricate statements from other posters.

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ian Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 9451	Re: spineless apologetics Reply #643 - Dec 30^th, 2013 at 12:53pm brumbie wrote on Dec 30^th, 2013 at 12:22am: EVERY major war going on now is because of who Gandalf? ? suggest you google this at least before you look really, really stupid.
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Stratos

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #644 - Dec 30^th, 2013 at 1:08pm

Yadda wrote on Dec 30^th, 2013 at 10:18am:

Why do i care ?

I want people like gandalf, to be redeemed.

And not end up in HELL.

And God wants that too.

What a joke. The other day you equated Islam to a bucket of sewerage, breaking one of your own passages. How many Muslims do you think you are going to convert by calling their religion a bucket of poo?

Quote:

But have reverence for Christ in your hearts, and honor him as Lord. Be ready at all times to answer anyone who asks you to explain the hope you have in you, but do it with gentleness and respect

All the gentleness and respect I have come to expect from someone who advocates the murder of infants as long as it's done by Christians.

Pete Waldo wrote on Jan 15^th, 2014 at 11:24pm:

Thus killing those Canaanite babies while they were still innocent, was a particularly merciful act

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