Australian Politics Forum - spineless apologetics

wally1 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2055 Gender:	Re: spineless apologetics Reply #60 - Sep 20^th, 2013 at 9:38am As usual you regurgitate your recycled posts. I read your first two lines then stop, not going to read your essays. Yadda=Repetitive.
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Yadda

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #61 - Sep 20^th, 2013 at 10:12am

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 20^th, 2013 at 8:38am:

Yadda wrote on Sep 20^th, 2013 at 12:00am:

So brian,

Yadda is a bad dude, for criticising ISLAM/moslems!!!"

Whatever bad behaviour moslems are guilty of [murder, mayhem], it is all about people like Yadda, who are critical of moslems.

Yadda is a bad dude because he he can't accept that there are genuinely well intentioned muslims - the vast majority in fact.

Quote:

EXAMINE THE EVIDENCE;

Moslems will blatantly, and intentionally, and deceitfully misrepresent ISLAM to a non-moslems.

All moslems barefacedly lie, when they communicate with non-believers - so as to promote ISLAM's [and their own] interests.

What is a true representation of the nature and intent of moslems/ISLAM ?

Is it the image of an instant in time [posed for] for a photographer ?

Or is the true nature and intent of moslems/ISLAM more likely to be revealed, when we examine the content of the foundation 'religious' texts of ISLAM ?
[....where we find an expressed hatred and intolerance for 'others', who are not moslems]i

Is the content of this image a sincere representation of true nature and intent of moslems/ISLAM ?....

"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves....."

Koran 48.29

"...If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him."

hadithsunnah/bukhari/ #004.052.260

Is the content of this image a sincere representation of true nature and intent of moslems/ISLAM ?....

"Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves....."

Koran 48.29

"Fighting [against unbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah:"
Koran 003.028

"O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?"
Koran 004.144

"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
Koran 5.51

"....the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies."
Koran 4.101

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him;...."
Koran 3.85

"And fight with them until.....religion should be only for Allah,..."
Koran 2.193

"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
Koran 2.089

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"...And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of [i.e. for] those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?...Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan:.."
Koran 4.74-76i

Quote:

Of course [these images are] just a conspiracy to sucker people in and pretend we're nice.

Yep.

IMAGE....

A moslem advertising campaign [2007] in the UK, promoting British moslems as normal, integrated citizens, who reject extremism;
"PROUD TO BE A.....MOSLEM"

Moslem deceit ???

Surely a moslem, would not lie!!!!

A moslem community leader,

speaking in the UK, publicly, AND THEN PRIVATELY, regarding the London 7/7 bombing victims.

Quote:

"......In public interviews Bakri condemned the killing of all innocent civilians.

Later when he addressed his own followers he explained that he had in fact been referring only to Muslims as only they were innocent:

Yes I condemn killing any innocent people, but not any kuffar."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1724541,00.html

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: spineless apologetics Reply #62 - Sep 20^th, 2013 at 10:47am Y, you forgot to tell me to google taqiyya. You dissapoint me.
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|dev|null

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #63 - Sep 20^th, 2013 at 11:55am

Yadda wrote on Sep 20^th, 2013 at 10:12am:

[quote author=gandalf link=1379233323/58#58 date=1379630311][quote author=Yadda link=1379233323/55#55 date=1379599206]

So brian,

Yadda is a bad dude, for criticising ISLAM/moslems!!!"

Yadda is a bad dude cause he can't accept that he maybe wrong.

Yadda is a bad dude cause he uses crayons.

Yadda is a bad dude cause he shouts to make his points.

Yadda is a bad due cause he's bloody boring.

Yadda is a bad dude cause he's a bigot.

The list goes on and on and on... Grin

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"Pens and books are the weapons that defeat terrorism." - Malala Yousefzai, 2013.

"we will never ever solve violence while we grasp for overly simplistic solutions."
Freediver, 2007.

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Yadda

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #64 - Sep 20^th, 2013 at 12:22pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 20^th, 2013 at 10:47am:

Y, you forgot to tell me to google taqiyya. You dissapoint me.

Lying is your religion, gandalf.

That is what ISLAM is.

ISLAM is, falsehood, ISLAM is, lying, ISLAM is, deceit.

You are sick, gandalf.

You are mentally sick [....to choose to embrace such an evil, deceitful philosophy].

ISLAM is a lying, deceitful, vicious, violent, supremacist death cult.

Moslems, who are they ?

Liars.

Pretending that moslems are peaceful and tolerant people.

When the opposite is the truth.

Pretending that moslems are being persecuted and that moslems are being falsely accused and that moslems are being provoked to violence, by hateful non-moslems.

When the opposite is the truth.

"O ye who believe! Take not my enemies and yours as friends.....offering them (your) love,..."
Koran 60.1

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

+++

Moslems 'making it up'.

ISLAM law 'legitimises' murder and violence [by moslems] against non-moslems....

But it is moslems regularly make false 'hate-crime' accusations against non-moslems.

It is moslems who regularly PROJECT accusations against non-moslems [accusations which actually mirror REAL moslem wrongdoing and violence, against non-moslems!!].

e.g.
In the USA, an ISLAMIST, and a relative of a murder victim, claimed that a moslem woman [his wife], had been the victim of a hate crime against her, because she was a moslem.

BUT IT WAS LATER EXPOSED, THAT THAT ACCUSATION WAS A TOTAL MOSLEM LIE/SLANDER AGAINST THE NON-MOSLEM COMMUNITY - BECAUSE IT WAS LATER REVEALED THAT THE HUSBAND HAD COMMITTED THE MURDER, HIMSELF.

AND THAT THE ACCUSATION MADE BY AGAINST NON-MOSLEMS, WAS MADE TO CONCEAL THE REAL - ISLAMICLY INSPIRED - MOTIVES FOR THE MOSLEM WOMANS MURDER.

THE MOTIVE IN MAKING THE FALSE ACCUSATION, WAS TO TO STIR UP WIDESPREAD COMMUNITY HATRED AGAINST THOSE WHO HAVE A LEGITIMATE CONCERNS AND CRITICISMS OF THE MOTIVES AND BEHAVIOUR OF THE USA MOSLEM/ISLAMIC COMMUNITY.

Quote:

".....a murdered Muslim woman whom the media and progressives professed immense concern for when they thought she was killed by an “Islamophobe.”

Now that it turns out that she was killed by a member of her own family, the Left has abruptly lost all interest in Shaima Alawadi."

READ THE SHAMEFUL DETAILS [of just one incident]....

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/03/having-failed-to-frame-us-for-murder-in-toulou...

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/04/murder-of-shaima-al-alawadi-touted-as-an-islam...

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/04/oops-islamic-supremacist-activist-whines-about...

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/04/shaima-alawadi-victim-of-honor-killing-not-isl...

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/04/salon-tries-to-save-face-shaima-alawadi-murder...

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/04/police-looking-at-daughter-in-shaima-alawadi-m...

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/04/why-the-left-abandoned-shaima-alawadi.html

+++

Do you remember the name;

Carnita Matthews

???

+++

Moslems will blatantly, and intentionally, and deceitfully misrepresent ISLAM to non-moslems.

All moslems barefacedly lie, when they communicate with non-believers - so as to promote ISLAM's [and their own] interests.

e.g.

“Speaking is a means to achieve objectives. If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish it through lying because there is no need for it. When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not by telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if attaining the goal is permissible..., and obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory. ...One should compare the bad consequences entailed by lying to those entailed by telling the truth, and if the consequences of telling the truth are more damaging, one is entitled to lie…”

google

Google;

taqiyya - the muslim doctrine of deceit

Google;

we smile to the face "while our hearts curse them"

How Taqiyya Alters Islams Rules of War

http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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polite_gandalf Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20027 Canberra Gender:	Re: spineless apologetics Reply #65 - Sep 20^th, 2013 at 12:39pm thats much better.
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Karnal Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 96507	Re: spineless apologetics Reply #66 - Sep 20^th, 2013 at 12:42pm You see? That’s gastronomy, right there.
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freediver

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #67 - Sep 20^th, 2013 at 12:55pm

Gandalf, nothing is stopping you from "doing good deeds" without at the same time trying to cast Muhammed's long shadow onto the modern world. If it was a choice between a dozen blokes shovelling snow and missing out on the London bombings and all the creeping backwards ideology, I'm sure most Brits would prefer to do without.

Wasn't that bloke arrested for stealing the handbag off the old lady?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Karnal

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #68 - Sep 20^th, 2013 at 1:50pm

freediver wrote on Sep 20^th, 2013 at 12:55pm:

Gandalf, nothing is stopping you from "doing good deeds" without at the same time trying to cast Muhammed's long shadow onto the modern world. If it was a choice between a dozen blokes shovelling snow and missing out on the London bombings and all the creeping backwards ideology, I'm sure most Brits would prefer to do without.

Wasn't that bloke arrested for stealing the handbag off the old lady?

Not nearly as good, FD. You need a few sprigs of parsley.

And I still don’t see Google Taqiyya.

Try to catch up to Y, FD.

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Brian Ross

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #69 - Sep 20^th, 2013 at 3:04pm

freediver wrote on Sep 20^th, 2013 at 8:29am:

The great irony is that even the Muslims you are so 'valiantly' defending think it is spineless.

Some may, some may not, as I've said, I'm not overly concerned either way, FD. I do it out of altruism, not a desire or need for appreciation. You can't claim a majority "think it is spineless", FD, so your comment is nonsense. Roll Eyes

Quote:

Where have I remained "silent in the face of injustice", FD?

What else does it mean, but spineless self censorship?

Is that the best you can do to answer the question? Tsk, tsk, no proof, merely supposition, FD. Roll Eyes

Quote:

I condemn it, where and when I believe it is appropriate.

When is it inappropriate to stand up for your fellow man who is subjected to grinding oppression?

Exactly and you're the one who is subjecting innocent Muslims to grinding oppression, FD. Proud?

Quote:

When is it inappropriate to stand up for freedom, democracy and human rights?

When you're busy denying them to Muslims merely on the basis of guilt by association?

To you, a newborn baby Muslim is guilty of the most horrendous crimes. To you, an 80 year old Muslims is guilty of the most horrendous crimes. Doesn't matter if they're in Australia or Timbuktu, they're all guilty of the most horrendious crimes and beliefs, merely because they are Muslims. Now, that is bigotry, FD! Roll Eyes

Quote:

It sounds to me like you are using some demented concept of politeness or civility as a pissweak excuse for your spineless response to barbarity. You are oblivious to the dangers of the self censorship you promote.

I respond to your barbarity, FD, does that annoy you?

I respond to the Muslims who are barbaric and condemn them individually but that isn't all Muslims, now is it? It's only a tiny minority of the billions on the Earth.

Quote:

Quote:

I accept alternative explanations when they are provided because you have already made your mind up.

Why don't I see anything in there about you thinking for yourself?

Your thinking about Muslims is prejudiced, FD. You are a bigot. Change your views and my analysis of them will change. Stop continually attacking Muslims for the most inane things and I'll reconsider my views about you. However, we both know it isn't going to happen, now is it? Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour. Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe? Tsk, tsk, tsk... Roll Eyes

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polite_gandalf

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #70 - Sep 20^th, 2013 at 3:08pm

freediver wrote on Sep 20^th, 2013 at 12:55pm:

Gandalf, nothing is stopping you from "doing good deeds" without at the same time trying to cast Muhammed's long shadow onto the modern world. If it was a choice between a dozen blokes shovelling snow and missing out on the London bombings and all the creeping backwards ideology, I'm sure most Brits would prefer to do without.

Ah, I see - so the only way a muslim can be a good person is to stop being a muslim. Got it.

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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
Quote:

Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.

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freediver

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #71 - Sep 20^th, 2013 at 5:58pm

Quote:

Ah, I see - so the only way a muslim can be a good person is to stop being a muslim. Got it.

It certainly helps. It's kind of hard to be a Muslim and reject all the nasty poo Muhammed pulled. Even you end up apologising or excusing it. It is only the efforts of non-Muslims that prevents you lowering socety's standards to that of Muhammed.

Quote:

Some may, some may not

This should be fun. I challenge you to find a single Muslim who does not consider what you said to be spineless.

Quote:

You can't claim a majority "think it is spineless", FD, so your comment is nonsense.

Not a majorty. All of them. I don't even have to ask them to know they think your words are spineless. Some concepts are universal, even for Muslims.

Quote:

Exactly and you're the one who is subjecting innocent Muslims to grinding oppression, FD. Proud?

This is a good example of the torturous mental gymnastics you need to perform to justify your spineless attitude.

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Yadda

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #72 - Sep 20^th, 2013 at 6:28pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 20^th, 2013 at 3:04pm:

Quote:

It sounds to me like you are using some demented concept of politeness or civility as a pissweak excuse for your spineless response to barbarity. You are oblivious to the dangers of the self censorship you promote.

I respond to your barbarity, FD, does that annoy you?

I respond to the Muslims who are barbaric and condemn them individually

but that isn't all Muslims, now is it? It's only a tiny minority of the billions on the Earth.

brian,

Your premise, that 'only a tiny minority' of moslems are [or support the] extremists - is wrong.

Your premise assumes that the majority of 'mainstream' moslems are NOT misrepresenting ISLAM - to those who are not moslems.

But, if most moslems in the world are lying to us about the nature of ISLAM,
and if moslems are blatantly, and intentionally, and deceitfully misrepresenting ISLAM to those who are NOT moslems,
then your assumption regarding the vast majority of moslems NOT supporting extremism [and that only a tiny minority of moslems are extremists] is an absurdity.

FACT;
Almost all moslems are barefacedly lying, when they communicate with non-believers - about the nature of ISLAM.

OR, is your argument, that the Koran [which is revered by all moslems], is NOT the foundation text of ISLAM, which is the principle religious text, by which moslems are guided in life to follow the tenets of their 'faith' ?

brian,

Who's KORAN [below], are these verses from ?

Isn't this Koran, the sacred Koran for all of the worlds moslems ?

brian, is your argument, that these Koran verses [below, verses which legitimise moslem hatred and cultural enmity towards those who are not moslems], are only the Koran verses of the 'tiny minority' of moslem extremists ???

"Fighting [against unbelievers] is prescribed for you, and [if] ye dislike it.....Allah knoweth, and ye know not."
Koran 2.216

"Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah:"
Koran 003.028

"O ye who believe! Take not for friends unbelievers rather than believers: Do ye wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?"
Koran 004.144

"....take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends....
......he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them."
Koran 5.51

"....the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies."
Koran 4.101

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."
Koran 9.123

"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:...."
Koran 9.111

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him;...."
Koran 3.85

"And fight with them until.....religion should be only for Allah,..."
Koran 2.193

"......the curse of Allah is on those without Faith."
Koran 2.089

"....Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith."
Koran 2.98

"....those who reject Allah have no protector."
Koran 47.008
v. 8-11

"...And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of [i.e. for] those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?...Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject Faith Fight in the cause of Evil: So fight ye against the friends of Satan:.."
Koran 4.74-76

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #73 - Sep 20^th, 2013 at 6:37pm

Brian Ross wrote on Sep 20^th, 2013 at 3:04pm:

Quote:

I accept alternative explanations when they are provided because you have already made your mind up.

Why don't I see anything in there about you thinking for yourself?

Your thinking about Muslims is prejudiced, FD.

You are a bigot.

Change your views and my analysis of them will change. Stop continually attacking Muslims for the most inane things and I'll reconsider my views about you. However, we both know it isn't going to happen, now is it? Roll Eyes

brian,

So, people like FD [who ask that moslems give an account of the tenets of their faith], are bigots ?

But, that the intolerance and bigotry which is contained [and which is expressed] within the Koran, and which inspires VIOLENT moslem behaviour in the world, does not reflect religious bigotry and religious fascism ???

Is that your argument, brian ?

SAMPLE KORAN VERSES....

"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. "
Koran 9.29

"If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him;...."
Koran 3.85

brian,

A question.

Why do you accuse those who are not moslems, of being bigots, for the 'crime' of questioning the bigotry and intolerance expressed within the Koran [which is ISLAM's foundation text, and which inspires VIOLENT moslem behaviour in the world against those who are not moslems],
but then you refuse 'to call' ISLAM's bigotry and intolerance ?

Why is that, brian ?

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda

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Re: spineless apologetics
Reply #74 - Sep 20^th, 2013 at 6:45pm

polite_gandalf wrote on Sep 20^th, 2013 at 3:08pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 20^th, 2013 at 12:55pm:

Gandalf, nothing is stopping you from "doing good deeds" without at the same time trying to cast Muhammed's long shadow onto the modern world. If it was a choice between a dozen blokes shovelling snow and missing out on the London bombings and all the creeping backwards ideology, I'm sure most Brits would prefer to do without.

Ah, I see - so the only way a muslim can be a good person is to stop being a muslim. Got it.

Essentially; Yes.iMY ARGUMENT - THAT MOSLEMS, ALL MOSLEMS, ARE CULPABLE, FOR THE BEHAVIOUR OF MOSLEMS, WHICH ISLAM ENCOURAGES....

Female students attacked by terrorists in Pakistan
http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1371379537/18#18
Quote:

+++

You declare yourself to be a moslem, gandalf.

Dictionary;
Muslim = = a follower of Islam.

ISLAM is a lawlessness, which you excuse, support, and defend, gandalf.

You are culpable, in facilitating moslem violence against those who reject ISLAM.

ISLAM [notwithstanding your incessant denials] promotes and encourages violence, as a means to impose ISLAM's authority upon those not within the moslem 'camp'.

Any act of violence, any act of evil, is justified by ISLAM, in promoting ISLAM's interests in the world.

Because those acts of violence, and acts of evil, are always made 'lawful' by ISLAM, precisely because those acts promote ISLAM's interests in the world.

AND EVERY MOSLEM IS CULPABLE - IN THOSE CRIMES, COMMITTED IN THE NAME OF ISLAM.

The victims of ISLAMIC violence, are the victims of ISLAMIC lawlessness [a violence, pretending to be a 'lawfully' provoked violence], a violence which you [as a moslem] refuse to acknowledge any responsibility for.

ISLAM is responsible for a lawlessness [a lawless violence], which you excuse, support, and defend, gandalf.

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« Last Edit: Sep 20^th, 2013 at 7:05pm by Yadda »

"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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