Australian Politics Forum - Abetz to crack down on union corruption

bogarde73

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Re: Abetz to crack down on union corruption
Reply #15 - Sep 17^th, 2013 at 3:21pm

It is up to the unions themselves to implement stricter checks on spending by officials and regular audits to ensure any wrongdoing is nipped in the bud quickly.

Your statement implies that you think unions ought not be subject to the same rules of corporate law & behaviour which apply generally to incorporated bodies.
I don't think you mean that.

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Know the enemies of a civil society by their public behaviour, by their fraudulent claim to be liberal-progressive, by their propensity to lie and, above all, by their attachment to authoritarianism.

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Peter Freedman

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Re: Abetz to crack down on union corruption
Reply #16 - Sep 17^th, 2013 at 3:39pm

bogarde73 wrote on Sep 17^th, 2013 at 3:21pm:

It is up to the unions themselves to implement stricter checks on spending by officials and regular audits to ensure any wrongdoing is nipped in the bud quickly.

Your statement implies that you think unions ought not be subject to the same rules of corporate law & behaviour which apply generally to incorporated bodies.
I don't think you mean that.

I don't know enough about Australian corporate law to comment.

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God grant me the patience to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and, above all, the wisdom to tell the difference.

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longweekend58 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 45675 Gender:	Re: Abetz to crack down on union corruption Reply #17 - Sep 17^th, 2013 at 3:53pm Bam wrote on Sep 17^th, 2013 at 9:27am: A shame that corporate corruption will be allowed to run rampant. THAT'S what you got out of the OP??? I think your extreme bias (as well as your bad temper) are showing.
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Verge Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6329 Gender:	Re: Abetz to crack down on union corruption Reply #18 - Sep 17^th, 2013 at 4:47pm Im happy to see corruption cracked down on anyone!
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Verge

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Re: Abetz to crack down on union corruption
Reply #19 - Sep 17^th, 2013 at 4:52pm

Peter Freedman wrote on Sep 17^th, 2013 at 10:38am:

Abetz is a fool if he thinks harsher penalties will stamp out corruption. If that were so, there would be no thieving accountants, lawyers or businessmen.

It is up to the unions themselves to implement stricter checks on spending by officials and regular audits to ensure any wrongdoing is nipped in the bud quickly.

And those theiving ones you mention get jail time, deregistering and huge fines. Somehow the unions are outside the control of ASIC and as a result dont have the same penalties applied.

I dont think this is unfair. Bring them under the umbrella and let ASIC deal with them, as well as criminal proceedings if there is someone not right going on.

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And why not, if you will permit me; why shouldn’t I, if you will permit me; spend my first week as prime minister, should that happen, on this, on your, country - Abbott with the Garma People Aug 13

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Life_goes_on

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Re: Abetz to crack down on union corruption
Reply #20 - Sep 17^th, 2013 at 4:53pm

Oh no... next year is 2014... that's EXACTLY 80 years after 1934!

I can see the parallels now....

It'll be like the Night Of The Long Knives all over again... or Part 2... or the sequel... or a remake....

There'll be Obersturmbannfuhrer Abetz playing the role of the entire SS hierarchy against the rough and undisciplined boot boys the SA played by the various union bods.

There'll be midnight door knocks, black Mercedes, Abetz in his black uniform and shiny black riding boots... crop in hand...

Raus! Raus! Union goons! Raus! Raus!

truckloads of union members off to the camps...

ok, prob not camps... maybe to watch the 5th at Randwick.

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"You're just one lucky motherf-cker" - Someone, 5th February 2013

Num num num num.

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Bam

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Re: Abetz to crack down on union corruption
Reply #21 - Sep 17^th, 2013 at 5:15pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 17^th, 2013 at 3:53pm:

Bam wrote on Sep 17^th, 2013 at 9:27am:

A shame that corporate corruption will be allowed to run rampant.

THAT'S what you got out of the OP???

It's in the DNA of the Coalition to go soft on corporate wrongdoing whenever they are in power. To do otherwise would imperil their main source of donations.

Quote:

I think your extreme bias (as well as your bad temper) are showing.

Your psychological projection is fooling no-one.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Bam

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Re: Abetz to crack down on union corruption
Reply #22 - Sep 17^th, 2013 at 5:26pm

bogarde73 wrote on Sep 17^th, 2013 at 9:46am:

"If you as a company director rip off shareholders, you face the risk of five years jail or $320,000 worth of fines.

"If you're a trade union official and rip off your members, you face a $10,000 fine.

Have seen plenty of company directors, accountants etc dealt with by the courts but not many union leaders.

I'm not opposed in principle to consistency, but consistency is not a one-way street.

Company directors can earn a lot more than union officials. This is probably why they are fined a lot more. How many union officials have million-dollar salaries? How many company directors or CEOs?

If the maximum fine in both cases was six months' salary plus repayment of all monies taken fraudulently, that would be entirely consistent.

Other consistent measures would be a ban on holding similar positions of responsibility for a similar length of time and jail terms of similar length.

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You are not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to hold opinions that you can defend through sound, reasoned argument.

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Maqqa Gold Member Offline 14% - that low?! Posts: 16000	Re: Abetz to crack down on union corruption Reply #23 - Sep 17^th, 2013 at 7:03pm Bam wrote on Sep 17^th, 2013 at 9:27am: A shame that corporate corruption will be allowed to run rampant. What do you mean "allow to run rampant"?? The law?
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longweekend58

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Re: Abetz to crack down on union corruption
Reply #24 - Sep 18^th, 2013 at 9:17am

Bam wrote on Sep 17^th, 2013 at 5:15pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 17^th, 2013 at 3:53pm:

Bam wrote on Sep 17^th, 2013 at 9:27am:

A shame that corporate corruption will be allowed to run rampant.

THAT'S what you got out of the OP???

It's in the DNA of the Coalition to go soft on corporate wrongdoing whenever they are in power. To do otherwise would imperil their main source of donations.

Quote:

I think your extreme bias (as well as your bad temper) are showing.

Your psychological projection is fooling no-one.

Prove those claims, pebbles. or be proven to be a liar.

(and of course labor never goes soft on unions because of their donations...)

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Abetz to crack down on union corruption
Reply #25 - Sep 18^th, 2013 at 9:19am

Bam wrote on Sep 17^th, 2013 at 5:26pm:

bogarde73 wrote on Sep 17^th, 2013 at 9:46am:

"If you as a company director rip off shareholders, you face the risk of five years jail or $320,000 worth of fines.

"If you're a trade union official and rip off your members, you face a $10,000 fine.

Have seen plenty of company directors, accountants etc dealt with by the courts but not many union leaders.

I'm not opposed in principle to consistency, but consistency is not a one-way street.

Company directors can earn a lot more than union officials. This is probably why they are fined a lot more. How many union officials have million-dollar salaries? How many company directors or CEOs?

If the maximum fine in both cases was six months' salary plus repayment of all monies taken fraudulently, that would be entirely consistent.

Other consistent measures would be a ban on holding similar positions of responsibility for a similar length of time and jail terms of similar length.

as a company director myself I earn far far less than a union official and yet are subject to those same penalties. Why should unions be legally not subject to the same penalties? NO REASON AT ALL. After all, courts do take into account the circumstances that apply regarding income and assets and the nature of the crime. but they are currently no able to fine unions like all other organisations.

Finally, this will change.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 58507 Here Gender:	Re: Abetz to crack down on union corruption Reply #26 - Sep 18^th, 2013 at 9:21am Shaping up like a standard Liberal government. Attack Unions - the unemployed the Public service, employment, IR, Builders, Pensions, superannuation, education etc. Nothing new from them here, seen it all before.
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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 58507 Here Gender:	Re: Abetz to crack down on union corruption Reply #27 - Sep 18^th, 2013 at 9:24am Maqqa wrote on Sep 17^th, 2013 at 7:03pm: Bam wrote on Sep 17^th, 2013 at 9:27am: A shame that corporate corruption will be allowed to run rampant. What do you mean "allow to run rampant"?? The law? "allow to run rampant"?? Always has always will.
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longweekend58

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Re: Abetz to crack down on union corruption
Reply #28 - Sep 18^th, 2013 at 9:51am

Dnarever wrote on Sep 18^th, 2013 at 9:24am:

Maqqa wrote on Sep 17^th, 2013 at 7:03pm:

Bam wrote on Sep 17^th, 2013 at 9:27am:

A shame that corporate corruption will be allowed to run rampant.

What do you mean "allow to run rampant"??

The law?

"allow to run rampant"??

Always has always will.

You may or may not be aware that there is a 'corruption index' that is calculated annually around the globe and Australia usually ranks 3rd or 4th BEST.

Not quite in keeping with your 'rampant corruption' beliefs.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Verge

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Re: Abetz to crack down on union corruption
Reply #29 - Sep 18^th, 2013 at 12:18pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 18^th, 2013 at 9:19am:

Bam wrote on Sep 17^th, 2013 at 5:26pm:

bogarde73 wrote on Sep 17^th, 2013 at 9:46am:

"If you as a company director rip off shareholders, you face the risk of five years jail or $320,000 worth of fines.

"If you're a trade union official and rip off your members, you face a $10,000 fine.

Have seen plenty of company directors, accountants etc dealt with by the courts but not many union leaders.

I'm not opposed in principle to consistency, but consistency is not a one-way street.

Company directors can earn a lot more than union officials. This is probably why they are fined a lot more. How many union officials have million-dollar salaries? How many company directors or CEOs?

If the maximum fine in both cases was six months' salary plus repayment of all monies taken fraudulently, that would be entirely consistent.

Other consistent measures would be a ban on holding similar positions of responsibility for a similar length of time and jail terms of similar length.

as a company director myself I earn far far less than a union official and yet are subject to those same penalties. Why should unions be legally not subject to the same penalties? NO REASON AT ALL. After all, courts do take into account the circumstances that apply regarding income and assets and the nature of the crime. but they are currently no able to fine unions like all other organisations.

Finally, this will change.

You are a sole operator business who uses a company as the vehicle for his legal trading status.

Dont pull the "as a company director I earn less" crap.

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And why not, if you will permit me; why shouldn’t I, if you will permit me; spend my first week as prime minister, should that happen, on this, on your, country - Abbott with the Garma People Aug 13

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