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longweekend58

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #180 - Nov 29^th, 2013 at 8:15pm

Bobby. wrote on Nov 29^th, 2013 at 5:15pm:

Fiber to the node will mean over 75,000 special boxes
on various streets around Australia.

If a car hits one - a whole suburb could lose their communications.

You can thank the Libbos when you lose your connection.

you mean like what happens when a car hits one of the already existing phone nodes or a phone pole or a...

idiot.

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longweekend58 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 45675 Gender:	Re: NBN progress? Reply #181 - Nov 29^th, 2013 at 8:16pm when one of you clowns can come up with an actual necessary use for super-fast broadband then come back. int he meantime, the adults are working out and affordable solution. I guess you all drive Lamborghinis right? they are faster and handle better then the crap you currently drive. and if not, why not?
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Bobby.

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #182 - Nov 29^th, 2013 at 8:29pm

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 29^th, 2013 at 8:12pm:

Bobby. wrote on Nov 29^th, 2013 at 5:02pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 29^th, 2013 at 4:58pm:

Bobby. wrote on Nov 29^th, 2013 at 4:48pm:

Longy,
you forgot about cloud storage.
It means that business can back up their data for a nominal monthly fee.
It requires fiber optic.

forgiven

namaste

it DOESNT need fibre optic. It can actually be done on dial-up - just slowly. it is a function of upload speed and date size - nothing else.

and back up what??? what does the average residential user have that is so important it needs backing up? documents letters, assignments, photos?

people are already doing it!

It does need fiber optic - it can involve terabytes of info to store all of a servers data.
You are clearly not a technical person.

garbage. how many HOME USERS have terabytes of data they need to upload and how many of them need to upload there data more than once? everytime you post you reveal your ignorance.

I know someone who has 16 Terabytes of data.
Longy - you're out of touch.
Don't try & mix with the grownups.

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St George of the Garden

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #183 - Nov 29^th, 2013 at 9:08pm

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 29^th, 2013 at 8:16pm:

when one of you clowns can come up with an actual necessary use for super-fast broadband then come back.

Given ADSL2 typically gives a measly 5–8mbps if you are a family that is nowhere near enough bandwidth for all to be using the net.

Uploading photos, let alone backing up a whole folder of digital images is a PITA. We need higher up and down bandwidth. Small business wanting to maintain some sort of web presence or online store needs more than ADSL can give.

4K and 3D TVs require megabits speeds.

Stuff like 3D printing requires huge files to be sent—better copy to some sort of hard media and have the file couriered to the 3D printing shop.

Some people rely on medical monitoring—no huge datafiles but they must have a system that is reliable.

Skype is crap, not good enough for business use, not good enough for family members to keep in touch.

Generally web sites, media files etc will grow and grow in size.

There are a few uses for the here and now.

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Friends of the National Broadband Network

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St George of the Garden

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #184 - Nov 30^th, 2013 at 6:23am

Wish it was possible to impeach Turncoat and Abbott:

Quote:

The chairman of the national broadband network has warned of further cost blowouts in rolling out fibre-optic cables throughout the country, while an NBN Co analysis warns the Coalition’s ‘‘cheaper, sooner’’ network would strip up to $1.8 billion from its projected revenues.

New details of the draft document prepared by the NBN Co for the incoming government also reveal the slower transmission speed under the new model would compromise the provision of telehealth, distance education, internet TV and other business applications. . . .

According to the NBN Co analysis prepared for the incoming government during the caretaker period, obtained by Fairfax Media, the fibre-to-the-node NBN promised by the Coalition before the poll would be unable to deliver the advanced digital services people expect.

Among the services likely to be compromised by the slower service are quality voice telephony and reliable-quality video transmission required for delivering e-health and education to rural and remote areas.

The government’s model does not allow for sufficient upload speeds to deliver those services and sufficient bandwidth overall to deliver highly reliable services, the document states. The Coalition model proposes a minimum of 25 megabits per second (Mbps) by 2016, and a minimum of 50 Mbps by 2019.

The fibre-to-the-node model also compromises ‘‘multicast’’ capabilities – a key NBN Co product that allows multiple high-definition TV channels to be broadcast to large numbers of subscribers at once – because the number and quality of available programs would be restricted by the limited bandwidth.

http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/government-it/ziggy-switkowski-warns-of-more-nbn-co...

So there is no point at all rolling out Fraudband even before considering the repair state and wiring diameters of the copper. 25mbps will be a maximum not a minimum speed and vectoring won’t work here.

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longweekend58

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #185 - Nov 30^th, 2013 at 6:30am

Bobby. wrote on Nov 29^th, 2013 at 8:29pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 29^th, 2013 at 8:12pm:

Bobby. wrote on Nov 29^th, 2013 at 5:02pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 29^th, 2013 at 4:58pm:

Bobby. wrote on Nov 29^th, 2013 at 4:48pm:

Longy,
you forgot about cloud storage.
It means that business can back up their data for a nominal monthly fee.
It requires fiber optic.

forgiven

namaste

it DOESNT need fibre optic. It can actually be done on dial-up - just slowly. it is a function of upload speed and date size - nothing else.

and back up what??? what does the average residential user have that is so important it needs backing up? documents letters, assignments, photos?

people are already doing it!

It does need fiber optic - it can involve terabytes of info to store all of a servers data.
You are clearly not a technical person.

garbage. how many HOME USERS have terabytes of data they need to upload and how many of them need to upload there data more than once? everytime you post you reveal your ignorance.

I know someone who has 16 Terabytes of data.
Longy - you're out of touch.
Don't try & mix with the grownups.

residential or business\?

and so what? it isn't about ONE person it is about EVERYONE. and just because you have x amount of data doesn't mean it all has to be uploaded somewhere at all nevermind every day

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longweekend58

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #186 - Nov 30^th, 2013 at 6:37am

St George of the Garden wrote on Nov 29^th, 2013 at 9:08pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 29^th, 2013 at 8:16pm:

when one of you clowns can come up with an actual necessary use for super-fast broadband then come back.

Given ADSL2 typically gives a measly 5–8mbps if you are a family that is nowhere near enough bandwidth for all to be using the net.

that depends on how many and what they are doing. Generally your argument is flawed and since FTTN will offer 50-100Mbps what is the problem?

Uploading photos, let alone backing up a whole folder of digital images is a PITA. We need higher up and down bandwidth. Small business wanting to maintain some sort of web presence or online store needs more than ADSL can give.

IM a small business with a web presence. I don't host it myself and very few do because it is a dumb idea. and business is a different argument to residential - which is the vast majority of the cost of the NBN

4K and 3D TVs require megabits speeds.

4K is virtually unavailable and there is zero content for it. Plus, why does TV have to go via internet? been doing it via wireless for decades. and if the best you can come up with is downloading movies then it isn't an argument of value.

Stuff like 3D printing requires huge files to be sent—better copy to some sort of hard media and have the file couriered to the 3D printing shop.

They are CAD files which are NOT huge compared to many other types of media. Plus, you are still to identify an actual need for ANYONE to have something 3D printed.

Some people rely on medical monitoring—no huge datafiles but they must have a system that is reliable.

Anyone that needs a 100% foolproof medical monitoring system should be in a hospital. FTTP is not failure-proof.

Skype is crap, not good enough for business use, not good enough for family members to keep in touch.

Generally web sites, media files etc will grow and grow in size.

show me one that you find is unbearably slow at ADSL speeds now.

There are a few uses for the here and now.

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longweekend58

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #187 - Nov 30^th, 2013 at 6:39am

St George of the Garden wrote on Nov 30^th, 2013 at 6:23am:

Wish it was possible to impeach Turncoat and Abbott:

Quote:

The chairman of the national broadband network has warned of further cost blowouts in rolling out fibre-optic cables throughout the country, while an NBN Co analysis warns the Coalition’s ‘‘cheaper, sooner’’ network would strip up to $1.8 billion from its projected revenues.

New details of the draft document prepared by the NBN Co for the incoming government also reveal the slower transmission speed under the new model would compromise the provision of telehealth, distance education, internet TV and other business applications. . . .

According to the NBN Co analysis prepared for the incoming government during the caretaker period, obtained by Fairfax Media, the fibre-to-the-node NBN promised by the Coalition before the poll would be unable to deliver the advanced digital services people expect.

Among the services likely to be compromised by the slower service are quality voice telephony and reliable-quality video transmission required for delivering e-health and education to rural and remote areas.

The government’s model does not allow for sufficient upload speeds to deliver those services and sufficient bandwidth overall to deliver highly reliable services, the document states. The Coalition model proposes a minimum of 25 megabits per second (Mbps) by 2016, and a minimum of 50 Mbps by 2019.

The fibre-to-the-node model also compromises ‘‘multicast’’ capabilities – a key NBN Co product that allows multiple high-definition TV channels to be broadcast to large numbers of subscribers at once – because the number and quality of available programs would be restricted by the limited bandwidth.

http://www.smh.com.au/it-pro/government-it/ziggy-switkowski-warns-of-more-nbn-co...

So there is no point at all rolling out Fraudband even before considering the repair state and wiring diameters of the copper. 25mbps will be a maximum not a minimum speed and vectoring won’t work here.

except it does and there are already VDSL sites offering 100Mbps.

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Kat Gold Member Offline Socialism IS the answer. Posts: 17709 Everywhere and no-where Gender:	Re: NBN progress? Reply #188 - Nov 30^th, 2013 at 6:51am If it was up to 'some people', both on here and in this so-called government, we'd all still be using 14.4kb/sec dialup modems. So, they're happy to lumber us with its 21st-century equivalent. You've just gotta love these Luddites (NOT!).
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Bobby.

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #189 - Nov 30^th, 2013 at 7:02am

Kat wrote on Nov 30^th, 2013 at 6:51am:

If it was up to 'some people', both on here and in this so-called
government, we'd all still be using 14.4kb/sec dialup modems.

So, they're happy to lumber us with its 21st-century equivalent.

You've just gotta love these Luddites (NOT!).

Yes Kat,
many people are happy with the copper network.
They don't realise that a lot of the wires are in pits full of water
& one day they will lose their connection.

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St George of the Garden

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #190 - Nov 30^th, 2013 at 7:07am

Quote:

FTTN will offer 50-100Mbps what is the problem?

Turncoat might claim a minimum of 25mbps and 50-100mbps later but those are empty promises—the copper wires are too degraded and too narrow for vectoring etc. Up to 25mbps is the best you’ll get. Family—assume Dad, Mum and 2 kids but even a 2person household needs more bandwidth than is available now if they are at all heavy users. Use of the NBN for entertainment will ensure it makes a healthy profit, zero risk to taxpayers.

Quote:

[I’m] a small business with a web presence. I don't host it myself and very few do because it is a dumb idea.

Who said hosting? but you have to upload media so that needs more upload speed than available right now—photos, video etc has to have higher definition today or your website will be avoided.

Quote:

4K is virtually unavailable and there is zero content for it. Plus, why does TV have to go via internet? been doing it via wireless for decades.

I think all commercial video being recorded now is 4K. It is the new format, sets are coming down in price and it will be popular within a year or two and ubiquitous not long afterwards. Your remarks about wireless show a total ignorance about data loads with the higher formats. Fibre Optic cable has more spectrum in one fibre than the whole EM spectrum, all radio–TV-mobile phone-cordless phone etc spectrum. It makes sense to distribute the higher density format via clean optical fibre that can do justice to it. Some reading for you to do there.

3D printing files contain much more info than 2D CAD files.

Re VDSL—Telstra copper is too corroded, and this is getting worse not better. The copper is also overwhelmingly too narrow at .32mm and .4mm when for low impedance wiring, needed for real VDSL performance the wiring needs to be .6mm diameter at least. Where VDSL is in use overseas, like in the UK and NZ, the copper has been maintained in excellent condition by the telco owning the .62mm and up copper and even then speeds are less than expected. The poster child for FTTN, Germany, uses a huge number of nodes. FTTN is only worth it for an incumbent telco that owns the copper. NBN Co does not own the copper! FTTN therefor makes no sense here and isn’t really possible here.

That apartment block Turncoat trumpeted as a great example of FTTN was no such thing: it was fibre to the premises, to the apartment block basement (FTTB) and distributed by copper from there on.

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longweekend58

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #191 - Nov 30^th, 2013 at 7:21am

St George of the Garden wrote on Nov 30^th, 2013 at 7:07am:

Quote:

FTTN will offer 50-100Mbps what is the problem?

Turncoat might claim a minimum of 25mbps and 50-100mbps later but those are empty promises—the copper wires are too degraded and too narrow for vectoring etc. Up to 25mbps is the best you’ll get. Family—assume Dad, Mum and 2 kids but even a 2person household needs more bandwidth than is available now if they are at all heavy users. Use of the NBN for entertainment will ensure it makes a healthy profit, zero risk to taxpayers.

Quote:

[I’m] a small business with a web presence. I don't host it myself and very few do because it is a dumb idea.

Who said hosting? but you have to upload media so that needs more upload speed than available right now—photos, video etc has to have higher definition today or your website will be avoided.

Quote:

4K is virtually unavailable and there is zero content for it. Plus, why does TV have to go via internet? been doing it via wireless for decades.

I think all commercial video being recorded now is 4K. It is the new format, sets are coming down in price and it will be popular within a year or two and ubiquitous not long afterwards. Your remarks about wireless show a total ignorance about data loads with the higher formats. Fibre Optic cable has more spectrum in one fibre than the whole EM spectrum, all radio–TV-mobile phone-cordless phone etc spectrum. It makes sense to distribute the higher density format via clean optical fibre that can do justice to it. Some reading for you to do there.

3D printing files contain much more info than 2D CAD files.

Re VDSL—Telstra copper is too corroded, and this is getting worse not better. The copper is also overwhelmingly too narrow at .32mm and .4mm when for low impedance wiring, needed for real VDSL performance the wiring needs to be .6mm diameter at least. Where VDSL is in use overseas, like in the UK and NZ, the copper has been maintained in excellent condition by the telco owning the .62mm and up copper and even then speeds are less than expected. The poster child for FTTN, Germany, uses a huge number of nodes. FTTN is only worth it for an incumbent telco that owns the copper. NBN Co does not own the copper! FTTN therefor makes no sense here and isn’t really possible here.

That apartment block Turncoat trumpeted as a great example of FTTN was no such thing: it was fibre to the premises, to the apartment block basement (FTTB) and distributed by copper from there on.

actually NO COMMERCIAL TV is recorded in 4K. it is too expensive and too pointless. it has been used for some movies however.

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St George of the Garden

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #192 - Nov 30^th, 2013 at 7:46am

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 30^th, 2013 at 7:21am:

actually NO COMMERCIAL TV is recorded in 4K. it is too expensive and too pointless. it has been used for some movies however.

So you agree 4K TV (and 3D TV) are the coming thing. A major project like FTTn or FTTH has to be aimed at future use more than current use.

4K TV sets are coming down rapidly in price, when they are ubiquitous people are going to be up in arms if they can’t actually watch 4K TV! Turncoat (who thinks FTTH is perfectly fine for the French and Spanish people but too good for us Aussies) will become within a few short years the most unpopular Comms Minister, and Piss&Moan the most unpopular PM. Couple smacking CLOWNS!

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longweekend58

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #193 - Nov 30^th, 2013 at 7:49am

St George of the Garden wrote on Nov 30^th, 2013 at 7:46am:

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 30^th, 2013 at 7:21am:

actually NO COMMERCIAL TV is recorded in 4K. it is too expensive and too pointless. it has been used for some movies however.

So you agree 4K TV (and 3D TV) are the coming thing. A major project like FTTn or FTTH has to be aimed at future use more than current use.

4K TV sets are coming down rapidly in price, when they are ubiquitous people are going to be up in arms if they can’t actually watch 4K TV! Turncoat (who thinks FTTH is perfectly fine for the French and Spanish people but too good for us Aussies) will become within a few short years the most unpopular Comms Minister, and Piss&Moan the most unpopular PM. Couple smacking CLOWNS!

what is it with you clowns and TV. is it all you live for??? must everything you watch on you precious TVs come to you via online? you cant go out an hire a movie or whatever? and since virtually nothing is available on 4K sales will be very slow for along time.

TV... all you ever think about.

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #194 - Nov 30^th, 2013 at 11:21am

longweekend58 wrote on Nov 29^th, 2013 at 8:16pm:

when one of you clowns can come up with an actual necessary use for super-fast broadband then come back. ...

You always come back to that question. Could that be because you can't answer the relevant one?

As I've pointed out many times, you can't explain what you believe will halt the rise in demand for bandwidth. I have no idea what the rising demand for bandwidth is used for. I have even less idea what it will be used for. Because you have no idea, you deny*. I don't.

Quote:

The Americans have need of the telephone, but we do not. We have plenty of messenger boys.

-- Sir William Preece, chief engineer of the British Post Office, 1876.

* Or do you deny for lesser reasons?

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