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NBN progress? (Read 125770 times)
Grendel
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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #1860 - Apr 28th, 2014 at 11:49pm
 
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4625436.html
Labor's NBN technology is superior, but at what cost?
Kevin Morgan

In an age of tablets and smartphones, staking our future on one vast investment in fibre to every home is not sensible. FTTN is more than adequate, and there's nothing stopping us from upgrading it later on, writes Kevin Morgan.

It does a massive disservice to the debate about Australia's broadband future that the rollout of the National Broadband Network (NBN) has been reduced to one dimension: the differing capabilities of two technologies.

Indeed, it seems the only issue in play is the differing speeds promised by the Labor Government's fibre to every home policy (FTTH) and those offered under the Coalition's fibre to the node (FTTN) proposal that takes fibre to the street corner and then hooks up to the existing copper cable.

But broadband policy is not one dimensional. It's a complex trade-off between technological capability, cost, competition policy and consumer needs and demand. The question is, when these issues are balanced, which of the two proposals ticks more boxes in terms of sound public policy?

It's now demonstrable that the Government's all-fibre NBN, with its nominal price tag of $37.4 billion, cannot be built within either its promised budget or timeframe. In the first 10 weeks of this year, NBN Co, the company charged with the fibre rollout, passed only an additional 28 households a day. At that rate it would take 1,200 years to build the NBN. The rollout has stalled and targets are continually revised downward and missed, while the cost of actually connecting homes remains a state secret.

The government and NBN Co dismiss delays as the inevitable teething problems that a 10-year, nationwide infrastructure project will experience. Yet NBN Co was formed in July 2009, has over 2,200 staff and by the September election will have spent or committed more than $9 billion on various contracts.

NBN Co is far from being a start-up and the problems that have stymied its progress, such as the need to train and mobilise a construction workforce, were all foreseeable in 2009. NBN Co has failed miserably to plan for them. At the end of last year, NBN Co had as many full-time staff as contract staff in the field, and its contractors still can't find the 8,000 workers they need by mid-year to meet targets.

It's within this train wreck that the Coalition has been obliged to frame their policy.   Satellite and wireless network contracts worth over $4 billion cannot be broken. The Coalition says it will honour these and use the networks as planned to serve the 7 per cent of households that would not have been covered by fibre. They represent a costly and suboptimal solution to rural service the Coalition will have to live with.

Similarly the extraordinary largesse to Telstra, the $20 billion cash value deal that got Telstra to agree to closing its copper network and transferring customers to the NBN, cannot be unwound. But although Telstra would be unwilling to relinquish their taxpayer guaranteed windfall, there's obviously more than enough cash on the table for the Coalition to secure the cooperation it needs; most notably, access to the existing copper.

Other contracts, such as those with construction companies, may offer some freedom. Although these contractors can't find the labour for an all-fibre rollout, they are better equipped to manage a rejigging of the copper network under the Coalition's plan.

So despite the lead in its saddlebags, the Coalition's policy should be achievable within its peak $29 billion funding commitment and within the tight timeframes envisaged. Using the existing copper to each household means extensive civil works won't be needed and the policy falls within existing legislation, precluding the need for new legislation.

But is the Coalition plan "dudding" consumers or, more dramatically, as some commentators argue, damning Australia's digital future? If so German, British and American telcos that are deploying millions of lines of FTTN and the governments that have authorised these rollouts are also short-changing their consumers and condemning their economies to a digital backwater.

The reality is FTTN is by far and away the most commonly used technology to take fibre close to the consumer, even in markets depicted as being almost 100 per cent all fibre to the home. In Hong Kong, 80 per cent of the final distribution of high speed fibre broadband is on copper or technologies other than fibre. In Korea, the percentage is 60 per cent.

Of course, viewed solely through the technology prism, there's no question that FTTH is superior to FTTN. But that superior technology comes at a price that no other government would dare foot the bill for.

Consequently, when the complexity of conflicting pressures that underpin broadband policy are considered, the use of FTTN is eminently sensible. It will deliver speeds more than adequate for foreseeable consumer needs, and despite scaremongering, it does not foreclose an all-fibre future.

end pt 1.
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« Last Edit: Apr 29th, 2014 at 8:18am by Grendel »  
 
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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #1861 - Apr 28th, 2014 at 11:51pm
 
pt 2...

In a rational business model, FTTN is a stepping stone to FTTH. The lower cost and more rapid rollout of FTTN secures the cash flows needed for subsequent upgrades to an all-fibre network precluding the need for taxpayer subsidies or massive borrowing.

In summary, widespread use of FTTN offers a far lower cost path to higher speed broadband. And significantly, the flexibility of an FTTN deployment recognises that in an age of tablets and smartphones, predicating our future on one vast investment in fibre to every home, at unknown cost, is not sensible.

Not every home wants or needs a $3,000 fibre upgrade, and the demand for broadband services is more nuanced than the assumptions that underpin the government NBN business case.

Consumers have demonstrated they spend their broadband dollar on both fixed and mobile services. FTTN ought to ensure that fixed broadband remains affordable when its competing for the consumer dollar against mobile, offering Australia a far more flexible digital future. The Government's FTTH plan can only drive fixed broadband prices up.

In 35 years in the telecoms sector, Kevin Morgan has worked as an adviser to the labour movement, the African National Congress, and telecommunications companies on policy and regulation. He now writes and comments on the sector.
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RabbitO8
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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #1862 - Apr 29th, 2014 at 12:08am
 
An NBN from govt is a supremely bad idea.

You will notice that every single instance of overseas FTTH that has been a good example for them to bring up has never been done by a govt entity. The govt should not be in the business of Internet providing.

Next we will have these idiots classifying access to the Internet as a human right.  Roll Eyes
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Kat
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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #1863 - Apr 29th, 2014 at 6:37am
 
RabbitO8 wrote on Apr 29th, 2014 at 12:08am:
An NBN from govt is a supremely bad idea.

You will notice that every single instance of overseas FTTH that has been a good example for them to bring up has never been done by a govt entity. The govt should not be in the business of Internet providing.

Next we will have these idiots classifying access to the Internet as a human rightRoll Eyes



It is.
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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #1864 - Apr 29th, 2014 at 6:39am
 
RabbitO8 wrote on Apr 28th, 2014 at 8:50pm:
$29.5Bn is the cost to the taxpayer under the coalition.
$94Bn is the cost to the taxpayer under the ALP.

Not that it matters. You will get what you're given and be thankful to Malcolm because its more than you deserve. Then you can apologise to all Australians for your stupidity in trying to waste their money.


A typical conservative trait - knows the price of everything, but the value of nothing.
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Fit of Absent Mindeness
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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #1865 - Apr 29th, 2014 at 8:11am
 
RabbitO8 wrote on Apr 28th, 2014 at 11:00pm:
Fit of Absent Mindeness wrote on Apr 28th, 2014 at 9:47pm:
RabbitO8 wrote on Apr 28th, 2014 at 8:50pm:
$29.5Bn is the cost to the taxpayer under the coalition.
$94Bn is the cost to the taxpayer under the ALP.


ABSOLUTE CRAP - AND YOU KNOW IT!




You will have to do much better than posting an opinion piece by Clare and one of the ALP industry lackeys who of course champion free, over egged infrastructure paid for by the taxpayer.

You lefty NBN fanbois still haven't got it through your thick heads, that you will get what the righties decide to give you and nothing more.

Suck it up, losers. Be thankful that you are getting anything at all. It should never have been started in the first place.


You haven't disproved my links - you have nothing to backup your numbers.

The Coalitions nbn will be 41 billion plus the cost of the coper - as per their strategic review - which you obviously haven't read!

As for the $90 billion - this was a lie and has been shown to be as such - as pointed out by the Coalitions own members saying as much.

They promised 29.5 billion by 2016 for 25 mbps for everyone - each of these promises has proved to be bogus.

http://www.itnews.com.au/News/367388,coalition-nbn-to-cost-41bn-miss-delivery-da...

Guarantees internet speeds as far as the ISP.

The Coalition is already predicting an $11.5 billion blowout to the cost of building its version of the national broadband network, but says it will still cost less than Labor's scheme.

The 132-page strategic review (pdf), approved by NBN Co's board today, paints the former plan as headed for massive cost and time overruns, including a $19 billion overrun in capital expenditure and a three-year delay to the planned completion date.

However, the Coalition's own pre-election pledges proved overly optimistic, with costs expected to come in at "around" $41 billion rather than the promised $29.5 billion.

The 2016 forecast to bring 25 Mbps to all Australians has also been canned. Instead, the Coalition predicts it will be able to bring download speeds of up to 25 Mbps to 43 percent of premises in Australia's fixed-line footprint by that time.

Keep using the wrong figures, it shows how uninformed/biased you are.

Below is the strategic review which the Coalition undertook - I suggest you read it and understand it:

http://www.nbnco.com.au/content/dam/nbnco/documents/NBN-Co-Strategic-Review-Repo...

http://www.nbnco.com.au/about-us/media/news/strategic-review.html

Optimised Multi-Technology Mix

As an interconnecting “network of networks”, the new-look NBN would resemble the architecture of similar broadband rollouts in other advanced economies, embracing a range of technologies including Fibre to the Node and HFC (i.e. the cable broadband network), alongside Fibre to the Premises, fixed wireless, satellite as well as future advances in telecommunications technology.

This approach should also be able to deliver access to wholesale speeds of up to 50 Mbps to 90% of Australia’s fixed-line footprint and wholesale speeds of up to 100 Mbps to 65%-75% by 2019*.

It would reduce costs and bring forward revenues, reducing peak funding from an estimated $73bn to
$41bn
under the revised outlook.

The ability of homes and businesses to access the NBN sooner would also speed up the flow of revenues. This would help fund the already-reduced cost of construction, thereby moderating cash requirements and allowing for lower debt levels and associated interest charges.

It even has $41 billion on the nbn website.
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Grendel
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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #1866 - Apr 29th, 2014 at 8:19am
 
Kat wrote on Apr 29th, 2014 at 6:39am:
RabbitO8 wrote on Apr 28th, 2014 at 8:50pm:
$29.5Bn is the cost to the taxpayer under the coalition.
$94Bn is the cost to the taxpayer under the ALP.

Not that it matters. You will get what you're given and be thankful to Malcolm because its more than you deserve. Then you can apologise to all Australians for your stupidity in trying to waste their money.


A typical conservative trait - knows the price of everything, but the value of nothing.

Well that's just Bullshyt. Cheesy
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Grendel
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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #1867 - Apr 29th, 2014 at 8:21am
 
For the phoneys...  who apparently can't read.
Grendel wrote on Apr 28th, 2014 at 11:01pm:
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/fact-checker/will-the-nbn-cost-94-billion...

Quote:
The claim
Labor says its national broadband network will cost $44.1 billion. The Coalition says it will cost double that, and three times the cost of the scaled-down $29.5 billion version the Coalition is taking to the polls.


Quote:
Supporting evidence
The first is that its wholesale earnings per user start at $22 per month and then climb to $62 by 2020-21 when the NBN is finished. Mr Turnbull says that's a dramatic  increase of 9 per cent per year above inflation. There are few precedents for such an increase. For a decade now real fixed-line spending per person has been falling. NBN Co is assuming a huge turnaround.

Looks like Monks costings are way out and its going to get worse when the project is complete after all.
  Grin Grin Grin

Quote:
The second assumption is that NBN Co can wire up each fibre connection for an average of $2400 (satellite and wireless connections will cost much more).



Quote:
The third assumption is that the NBN will be finished on time. Due in 2021, it has already missed many deadlines. NBN Co itself describes its task as ''challenging''.


Quote:
Put together and building on each other, these ''quite moderate and realistic'' assumptions push up the total cost of the project to $94 billion by the delayed completion date of 2025. By then Mr Turnbull says NBN Co will also be losing $5 billion per year.


Quote:
Does it stack up?
On earnings per user, NBN Co chief Mike Quigley told Parliament in April that he was making $38 per month, not the $22 quoted by Mr Turnbull (although Mr Turnbull's figure came from Mr Quigley's corporate plan).


Quote:
On costs, NBN Co has told the parliamentary committee it is managing to connect each user for $2200 to $2500, close to its assumption of $2400. Mr Turnbull believes that estimate excludes some costs and is dominated by the low cost of the easier connections NBN Co is doing first.


Quote:
On the question of delays, Mr Quigley told the committee in April that he stood by his target of finishing the NBN by 2021. Then in July he resigned, declaring his job of laying the foundations for the project ''largely complete''. NBN Co had expected to have 566,000 active users by June 2013. It managed to connect 33,600.


Quote:
Finding
Mr Albanese told Lateline this week that Mr Turnbull's $94 billion figure had been ''plucked out of a Coco Pops packet''.   ''And indeed, the joint parliamentary committee, of which Malcolm is a member, did consider this and found there was no basis in fact.''
In fact the committee made no such finding.


Quote:
Mr Turnbull is on strong ground when he says the final cost of Labor's NBN would be likely to exceed the claimed $44.1 billion. Most major projects go over budget. Australia's Parliament House was to cost $220 million. It eventually cost five times as much, $1.1 billion. The Sydney Opera House cost 14 times the original estimate.  But the Snowy Mountains Scheme is said to have been delivered on time and on budget. Labor's NBN is bigger than them all.


Quote:
So difficult is it to estimate the cost of such a project that parliamentary budget officer Phil Bowen this week revealed he would not have been able to cost the Coalition's alternative NBN plan had it asked him to.

Monk of course has managed to do both by himself.
Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy

Quote:
The government says NBN Co's corporate plan has been ''independently verified by KPMG and Greenhill Caliburn'', but the KPMG study wasn't independent (NBN Co paid it for the task) and it took place before construction began. The Greenhill Caliburn review was a paper exercise, which did not examine actual performance.


Quote:
Labor's NBN would end up costing $44.1 billion if a lot of things went right. So far several have not. Turnbull's estimate of $94 billion is unverifiable, but possible if Labor won the election and did not alter its NBN plan.


Quote:
If Mr Turnbull had merely said that it was highly probable Labor's NBN would end up costing more than the claimed $44.1 billion PolitiFact would have rated the claim ''true'' or ''mostly true'' based on what is known.


Quote:
None of the senior telecommunications analysts PolitiFact spoke to wanted to go on record. Each shared one or more of Mr Turnbull's doubts about the NBN Co's assumptions.
Mr Turnbull has gone further and quantified those doubts. His estimate may be on the high side, it may be on the low side.


Quote:
PolitiFact finds Turnbull's claim that Labor's NBN would eventually cost $94 billion possible but unverifiable. It rates it "half true".

Monk of course rates it totally untrue.
  Cheesy Grin Cheesy Grin Cheesy

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RabbitO8
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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #1868 - Apr 29th, 2014 at 8:29am
 
Fit of Absent Mindeness wrote on Apr 29th, 2014 at 8:11am:
RabbitO8 wrote on Apr 28th, 2014 at 11:00pm:
Fit of Absent Mindeness wrote on Apr 28th, 2014 at 9:47pm:
RabbitO8 wrote on Apr 28th, 2014 at 8:50pm:
$29.5Bn is the cost to the taxpayer under the coalition.
$94Bn is the cost to the taxpayer under the ALP.


ABSOLUTE CRAP - AND YOU KNOW IT!




You will have to do much better than posting an opinion piece by Clare and one of the ALP industry lackeys who of course champion free, over egged infrastructure paid for by the taxpayer.

You lefty NBN fanbois still haven't got it through your thick heads, that you will get what the righties decide to give you and nothing more.

Suck it up, losers. Be thankful that you are getting anything at all. It should never have been started in the first place.


You haven't disproved my links - you have nothing to backup your numbers.


I don't need to disprove your links. They are opinion pieces.
My numbers come straight from the ministers webpage. If you have an issue with them, you can take it up with him.

It sounds like you have a real "gotcha" over Malcolm. Why don't you go the the press and shout from the roof tops that he's got it wrong on his own website? You be a hero among goats in the leftwing world.
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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #1869 - Apr 29th, 2014 at 8:40am
 
This is from the same communications minister:

http://www.minister.communications.gov.au/malcolm_turnbull/news/strategic_review...

...

It's 41 billion - how can you not get that?

The above image is from the communication ministers own website.

You've just been proven as the troll/liar I knew you were.

Your either deaf, dumb, stupid or more likely all 3.
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RabbitO8
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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #1870 - Apr 29th, 2014 at 8:44am
 
Well, off you go then. Take the links I have given you from the ministers website with the $29.5bn figure and become a God among goats.

Go forth and become the goat God. It is your destiny!

Let us know how it all works out for you.  Grin
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Fit of Absent Mindeness
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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #1871 - Apr 29th, 2014 at 9:00am
 
RabbitO8 wrote on Apr 29th, 2014 at 8:44am:
Well, off you go then. Take the links I have given you from the ministers website with the $29.5bn figure and become a God among goats.

Go forth and become the goat God. It is your destiny!

Let us know how it all works out for you.  Grin


You have nothing left and have resorted to insults - great tactic.
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RabbitO8
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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #1872 - Apr 29th, 2014 at 9:06am
 
It's not an insult. If you know Malcolm has it wrong, you can point it out to the media and win yourself accolades from your fellow leftwing travellers. You can experience being a god like figure as being the boy who brought Malcolm undone!

There will be all types of lefties clamouring over themselves just to get a photo with the great one who brought Malcolm down with his crushing insight as to how Mal was wrong.

Let us know how it works out.
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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #1873 - Apr 29th, 2014 at 9:17am
 
I've posted a picture that states the cost is $41 billion.

How is that wrong?
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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #1874 - Apr 29th, 2014 at 9:24am
 
I've posted text from Mals website that says it will cost $29.5Bn from the taxpayer. How is that wrong?
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