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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #75 - Sep 18^th, 2013 at 8:04pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 18^th, 2013 at 5:52pm:

# wrote on Sep 18^th, 2013 at 5:35pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 18^th, 2013 at 1:58pm:

...
the FTTN will have a CBA ...

Would that be an honest CBA or a political CBA?

... you have predetermined that it will be the latter. ...

I've been around long enough to be sceptical when politics intrudes so egregiously. In this highly politicised environment, would any but the feeblest minds trust as you do?

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #76 - Sep 18^th, 2013 at 8:15pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 18^th, 2013 at 6:06pm:

...
pinterest and youtube... your source of choice and you wonder why so many laugh at you.

I'm not laughing. They're just collections of information. What do you find amusing in that?

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 18^th, 2013 at 6:06pm:

... What was the original NBN plane ...

I presume you mean plan, not plane. The original was the 1994 plan, is that the one you mean?

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 18^th, 2013 at 6:06pm:

... It is massively behind schedule and the nearest estimate is circac 2030.

Another assertion, which you can't substantiate, can you?

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Bobby.

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #77 - Sep 18^th, 2013 at 8:47pm

Bobby. wrote on Sep 18^th, 2013 at 5:59pm:

Quote:

Quote:

are you unaware that the copper network is already maintained and upgraded??? did it even occur to you that the entire phone network and the entire internet network already runs on this???

See, you have to stop being wrong.

http://www.pinterest.com/turbojv/fttn-rusting-copper-network/

The copper network is already at its use by date. There is a limited life span on these things and we are pretty much at it now. Attempting to prolong the inevitable is just going to be more expensive in the long run.

Do you understand that? The copper is degrading to a point where its barely carrying the phone network. There are places where you cant get internet or phone services when it rains.

Longweekend hadn't even thought about the old copper wires.

That's a good link - have a look at the pics Longy. Shocked

Longy did not confirm that he looked at the pics.

He's an ostrich with his head in the sand.

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donincognito

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #78 - Sep 18^th, 2013 at 10:11pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 18^th, 2013 at 5:51pm:

pinterest.com??? that's your source????

Grin

Well, I have found that effective communication involves tailoring your message to the comprehension levels of the people you are trying to communicate with.

In this case, seeing as im communicating with you, pictures are about all I think you can handle, giving you complete and utter lack of understanding of anything even remotely involving technology.

Do you look at those pictures and see a network that can handle the current amounts of traffic on it, let alone what is to be coming in the future? Honestly? And you would be happy handing over billions and billions of tax payer dollars for this?

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 18^th, 2013 at 6:06pm:

I defy you to answer this question (on topic). What was the original NBN plane going to do about copper wires over the next 20 years while it finishes its rollout. and don't pretend the NBN would have been out soon. It is massively behind schedule and the nearest estimate is circac 2030.

so can you answer ina coherent manner. I vote NO

Put up with it. Like we have been doing since Telstra was privatised. We have put up with crappy, sub standard service because a bunch of smacking idiots got together and decided it would be a brilliant idea to privitise a natural monopoly, and not restrict its overwhelming market power (that was the LNP BTW). Since then Australian internet has largely stagnated and less developed countries have more developed internet infrastructure.

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Update 18 September
Reply #79 - Sep 19^th, 2013 at 9:35am

change.org

Our message is starting to get through.

After signing our petition, thousands of people have taken further action: emailing Mr Turnbull, contacting him on twitter and sharing images asking him to open up the debate on the NBN. And the media interest hasn't let up -- we've had press and radio coverage across the country!

It was clear from Mr Turnbull’s first response to the petition that he won’t be moved easily, but that he’s willing to engage.

In fact, in a second response, he’s now entered into a debate with an academic from Queensland and, seemingly, promised two things:

1 - That the share of the NBN that’s FTTP will be up for discussion, and

2 - that the Strategic Review will be conducted openly.

In the last few days, Nick’s received hundreds of emails with ideas and comments about what we should do next. (Sorry if you haven’t had a reply yet - it’s been flat out!)

There’s been loads of great ideas but we want to get a clearer picture of who makes up our movement and what you think we should do next. Can you take a few minutes to fill out this survey, let us know a bit about yourself and give us your thoughts on the campaign by clicking here?

We’ve started something here, and you’re part of it. But if we’re going to keep getting movement out of Mr Turnbull, we’ll need to step it up another notch, and start doing things like talking with our local MPs and asking them to advocate on our behalf. What other ideas do you have for continuing this campaign?

Thanks for everything you’ve done so far, we’re really starting to get somewhere,

Alex

(filling in for Nick while he’s offline for a couple of days)

P.S. We’re still worried that Mr Turnbull thinks we don’t understand. If you haven’t already, why not respond by clicking here and commenting on his blog. As always, please be polite, but take the time to explain why a better NBN matters to you.

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longweekend58

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #80 - Sep 19^th, 2013 at 9:45am

# wrote on Sep 18^th, 2013 at 7:41pm:

[Sigh] Feeble minds, I've heard, need their answers repeated. I do despair, however, of longweekend58's capacity to comprehend.
longweekend58 wrote on Sep 18^th, 2013 at 2:17pm:

... are you unaware that the copper network is already maintained and upgraded???

Has it occurred to you that it isn't? # wrote on Sep 16^th, 2013 at 4:08pm:

...
Worst of the worst: Photos of Australia’s copper network
When good copper cable goes bad
Copper network in shocking state

Copper good for 100 years, says Thodey Quote:

Now, we’re absolutely sure that Thodey’s comments will be met with howls of derision from many quarters. After all, there are plenty out there on broadband connections which suffer poor quality precisely because of poor copper lines. There are even those (such as your writer) who tend to suffer issues with their broadband connection when it rains.

No pristine photos: Telstra rejects copper challenge Quote:

The nation’s largest telco Telstra has declined a challenge to provide photos highlighting good examples of the best-maintained infrastructure in its national copper telecommunications network, following the publication several weeks ago of a “worst of the worst” gallery of photos of the network.

Because they couldn't, perhaps?

New technology leaves Telstra in the copper age Quote:

Warren, group manager, regulatory strategy, told the committee: "I think it is right to suggest that ADSL is an interim technology. It is probably the last sweating, if you like, of the old copper network assets. In copper years, if you like, we are at a sort of transition - we are at five minutes to midnight."

# wrote on Sep 16^th, 2013 at 9:09pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 16^th, 2013 at 4:20pm:

...
so no consideration given to simple maintenance and replacement?

What evidence do you have that necessary maintenance has been carried out? Do you think that copper lasts forever? Given that copper is obsolete, does it make sense to replace degraded copper with the same obsolete technology?

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 16^th, 2013 at 4:20pm:

bottom line is that the copper network is NOT in bad condition

What evidence do you have to substantiate that assertion? Here's what the people on the job say: Quote:

Unions have told the ABC that Telstra's copper network is in a state of disrepair, with workers at the coalface of the infrastructure using plastic bags to protect cables from water.

...

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 18^th, 2013 at 2:17pm:

did it even occur to you that the entire phone network and the entire internet network already runs on this???

You assert that there's nothing in the network but copper? Substantiation of that, I'd be interested to see.

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 18^th, 2013 at 2:17pm:

a lot brighter people than you have actually thought this thru

Name them. Is FTTN a technical decision or a political one?

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 18^th, 2013 at 2:17pm:

- unlike Rudd who came up with the NBN literally on a plane flight with Conroy.

# wrote on Sep 16^th, 2013 at 8:37pm:

...
Rudd went to the 2007 election with a fibre to the node plan. At the time, the Coalition branded it "fraudband". Unfortunately, the plan relied on access to Telstra's monopoly customer access network. Then Telstra CEO, Sol Trujillo, played the ultimate obstructionist.

Trujillo was thinking in American. Rudd did what no US President would or could: he decided to build over Telstra's monopoly. Most of the cost of building a network lies in getting machines and workers to the job. It made no sense to duplicate the already obsolete copper network, so he went for fibre to the premises.

Under the circumstances, what's your problem?

of course the copper network is maintained and upgraded! Are you stupid or something? do you think when there is a fault it is just left until the NBN 10-20 years down the track? What about new constructions? area they left without a phone ?

you are always naïve but sometimes you are spectacularly stupid. This is one of those times.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Update 18 September
Reply #81 - Sep 19^th, 2013 at 9:47am

# wrote on Sep 19^th, 2013 at 9:35am:

change.org

http://d22r54gnmuhwmk.cloudfront.net/photos/2/qr/ab/dfqraBJRRMtrzHI-556x313-noPa...

Our message is starting to get through.

After signing our petition, thousands of people have taken further action: emailing Mr Turnbull, contacting him on twitter and sharing images asking him to open up the debate on the NBN. And the media interest hasn't let up -- we've had press and radio coverage across the country!

It was clear from Mr Turnbull’s first response to the petition that he won’t be moved easily, but that he’s willing to engage.

In fact, in a second response, he’s now entered into a debate with an academic from Queensland and, seemingly, promised two things:

1 - That the share of the NBN that’s FTTP will be up for discussion, and

2 - that the Strategic Review will be conducted openly.

In the last few days, Nick’s received hundreds of emails with ideas and comments about what we should do next. (Sorry if you haven’t had a reply yet - it’s been flat out!)

There’s been loads of great ideas but we want to get a clearer picture of who makes up our movement and what you think we should do next. Can you take a few minutes to fill out this survey, let us know a bit about yourself and give us your thoughts on the campaign by clicking here?

We’ve started something here, and you’re part of it. But if we’re going to keep getting movement out of Mr Turnbull, we’ll need to step it up another notch, and start doing things like talking with our local MPs and asking them to advocate on our behalf. What other ideas do you have for continuing this campaign?

Thanks for everything you’ve done so far, we’re really starting to get somewhere,

Alex

(filling in for Nick while he’s offline for a couple of days)

P.S. We’re still worried that Mr Turnbull thinks we don’t understand. If you haven’t already, why not respond by clicking here and commenting on his blog. As always, please be polite, but take the time to explain why a better NBN matters to you.

you are rather naïve to think that a petition against a very major Lib policy that will save the country $20B is going to change. turnball is not as stupid as you and he is a pragmatist - which clearly you are not.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #82 - Sep 19^th, 2013 at 1:56pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 19^th, 2013 at 9:45am:

...

of course the copper network is maintained and upgraded! ...

Feeble minds need their answers repeated:
# wrote on Sep 16^th, 2013 at 4:08pm:

...
Worst of the worst: Photos of Australia’s copper network
When good copper cable goes bad
Copper network in shocking state

Copper good for 100 years, says Thodey Quote:

Now, we’re absolutely sure that Thodey’s comments will be met with howls of derision from many quarters. After all, there are plenty out there on broadband connections which suffer poor quality precisely because of poor copper lines. There are even those (such as your writer) who tend to suffer issues with their broadband connection when it rains.

No pristine photos: Telstra rejects copper challenge Quote:

The nation’s largest telco Telstra has declined a challenge to provide photos highlighting good examples of the best-maintained infrastructure in its national copper telecommunications network, following the publication several weeks ago of a “worst of the worst” gallery of photos of the network.

Because they couldn't, perhaps?

New technology leaves Telstra in the copper age Quote:

Warren, group manager, regulatory strategy, told the committee: "I think it is right to suggest that ADSL is an interim technology. It is probably the last sweating, if you like, of the old copper network assets. In copper years, if you like, we are at a sort of transition - we are at five minutes to midnight."

# wrote on Sep 16^th, 2013 at 9:09pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 16^th, 2013 at 4:20pm:

...
so no consideration given to simple maintenance and replacement?

What evidence do you have that necessary maintenance has been carried out? Do you think that copper lasts forever? Given that copper is obsolete, does it make sense to replace degraded copper with the same obsolete technology?

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 16^th, 2013 at 4:20pm:

bottom line is that the copper network is NOT in bad condition

What evidence do you have to substantiate that assertion? Here's what the people on the job say: Quote:

Unions have told the ABC that Telstra's copper network is in a state of disrepair, with workers at the coalface of the infrastructure using plastic bags to protect cables from water.

...

...
The feeblest need them repeated most often. I do despair of longweekend58's capacity to comprehend.

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# Gold Member Offline A fool is certain: an ignorant fool, absolutely so Posts: 2603	Re: Update 18 September Reply #83 - Sep 19^th, 2013 at 1:58pm longweekend58 wrote on Sep 19^th, 2013 at 9:47am: ... you are rather naïve to think that a petition ... Murdoch won't live forever. Abbott won't be leader forever. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
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Bobby.

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #84 - Sep 19^th, 2013 at 3:05pm

Bobby. wrote on Sep 18^th, 2013 at 8:47pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 18^th, 2013 at 5:59pm:

Quote:

Quote:

are you unaware that the copper network is already maintained and upgraded??? did it even occur to you that the entire phone network and the entire internet network already runs on this???

See, you have to stop being wrong.

http://www.pinterest.com/turbojv/fttn-rusting-copper-network/

The copper network is already at its use by date. There is a limited life span on these things and we are pretty much at it now. Attempting to prolong the inevitable is just going to be more expensive in the long run.

Do you understand that? The copper is degrading to a point where its barely carrying the phone network. There are places where you cant get internet or phone services when it rains.

Longweekend hadn't even thought about the old copper wires.

That's a good link - have a look at the pics Longy. Shocked

Longy did not confirm that he looked at the pics.

He's an ostrich with his head in the sand.

Have a look at the wiring:

http://www.pinterest.com/turbojv/fttn-rusting-copper-network/

FTTN rusting copper network

Malcom Turnbol rolling out FTTN and this is what he is going to use build his network. Current NBN policy is correct policy because it replaces this mess! There are many other reasons NBN is correct policy.

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longweekend58

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #85 - Sep 19^th, 2013 at 5:16pm

Bobby. wrote on Sep 19^th, 2013 at 3:05pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 18^th, 2013 at 8:47pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 18^th, 2013 at 5:59pm:

Quote:

Quote:

are you unaware that the copper network is already maintained and upgraded??? did it even occur to you that the entire phone network and the entire internet network already runs on this???

See, you have to stop being wrong.

http://www.pinterest.com/turbojv/fttn-rusting-copper-network/

The copper network is already at its use by date. There is a limited life span on these things and we are pretty much at it now. Attempting to prolong the inevitable is just going to be more expensive in the long run.

Do you understand that? The copper is degrading to a point where its barely carrying the phone network. There are places where you cant get internet or phone services when it rains.

Longweekend hadn't even thought about the old copper wires.

That's a good link - have a look at the pics Longy. Shocked

Longy did not confirm that he looked at the pics.

He's an ostrich with his head in the sand.

Have a look at the wiring:

http://www.pinterest.com/turbojv/fttn-rusting-copper-network/

FTTN rusting copper network

Malcom Turnbol rolling out FTTN and this is what he is going to use build his network. Current NBN policy is correct policy because it replaces this mess! There are many other reasons NBN is correct policy.

oh I think Turnball might have actually thought these kinds of issues through. After all, he is a LOT brighter than you two clowns.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #86 - Sep 19^th, 2013 at 7:23pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 19^th, 2013 at 5:16pm:

...
oh I think Turnball might have actually thought these kinds of issues through. ...

Does Turnbull do anything but what Abbott directs? Does Abbott do anything that Murdoch wouldn't approve? For those who merely do as they're directed, what's to think through?

By the way: longweekend58 wrote on Sep 18^th, 2013 at 2:06pm:

# wrote on Sep 18^th, 2013 at 10:45am:

... By 2020, the network will be faced with 1Gb/s demands. As you might remember, you've not been able to substantiate your denial of that forecast.
...

why do you continue with such unsubstantiated drivel. Quigley made the claim in a politically motivated rant. ...

You've never substantiated your denial. If Quigley's forecast lacks credibility, why can't you point to one example of anyone credible* saying different?

* credible: that's not you, not me and not any politician.

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Bobby.

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #87 - Sep 19^th, 2013 at 8:21pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 19^th, 2013 at 5:16pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 19^th, 2013 at 3:05pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 18^th, 2013 at 8:47pm:

Bobby. wrote on Sep 18^th, 2013 at 5:59pm:

Quote:

Quote:

are you unaware that the copper network is already maintained and upgraded??? did it even occur to you that the entire phone network and the entire internet network already runs on this???

See, you have to stop being wrong.

http://www.pinterest.com/turbojv/fttn-rusting-copper-network/

The copper network is already at its use by date. There is a limited life span on these things and we are pretty much at it now. Attempting to prolong the inevitable is just going to be more expensive in the long run.

Do you understand that? The copper is degrading to a point where its barely carrying the phone network. There are places where you cant get internet or phone services when it rains.

Longweekend hadn't even thought about the old copper wires.

That's a good link - have a look at the pics Longy. Shocked

Longy did not confirm that he looked at the pics.

He's an ostrich with his head in the sand.

Have a look at the wiring:

http://www.pinterest.com/turbojv/fttn-rusting-copper-network/

FTTN rusting copper network

Malcom Turnbol rolling out FTTN and this is what he is going to use build his network. Current NBN policy is correct policy because it replaces this mess! There are many other reasons NBN is correct policy.

oh I think Turnball might have actually thought these kinds of issues through. After all, he is a LOT brighter than you two clowns.

Turnbull is not a technical person.
I don't know how he can hold a straight face when talking about technology.
He's a lawyer not an engineer.

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #88 - Sep 20^th, 2013 at 7:43am

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 19^th, 2013 at 9:45am:

...

of course the copper network is maintained and upgraded! ...

For mine, the most cogent argument lies in Testra's inability to provide any proof that the network is maintained:
No pristine photos: Telstra rejects copper challenge Quote:

The nation’s largest telco Telstra has declined a challenge to provide photos highlighting good examples of the best-maintained infrastructure in its national copper telecommunications network, following the publication several weeks ago of a “worst of the worst” gallery of photos of the network.

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longweekend58

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Re: NBN progress?
Reply #89 - Sep 20^th, 2013 at 3:45pm

# wrote on Sep 19^th, 2013 at 7:23pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 19^th, 2013 at 5:16pm:

...
oh I think Turnball might have actually thought these kinds of issues through. ...

Does Turnbull do anything but what Abbott directs? Does Abbott do anything that Murdoch wouldn't approve? For those who merely do as they're directed, what's to think through?
By the way: longweekend58 wrote on Sep 18^th, 2013 at 2:06pm:

# wrote on Sep 18^th, 2013 at 10:45am:

... By 2020, the network will be faced with 1Gb/s demands. As you might remember, you've not been able to substantiate your denial of that forecast.
...

why do you continue with such unsubstantiated drivel. Quigley made the claim in a politically motivated rant. ...

You've never substantiated your denial. If Quigley's forecast lacks credibility, why can't you point to one example of anyone credible* saying different?

* credible: that's not you, not me and not any politician.

when you post like that then there is no point in debating with you. you are nothing more than a conspiracy theorist and a fool. There is no possible way to ever change your mind because facts and evidence have nothing to do with it.

enjoy the FTTN you will be getting. It's more than YOU deserve.

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