Australian Politics Forum - Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns

Chimp_Logic

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Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Reply #30 - Sep 24^th, 2013 at 10:52pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Sep 24^th, 2013 at 6:24pm:

muso wrote on Sep 21^st, 2013 at 2:16pm:

Ajax wrote on Sep 21^st, 2013 at 1:54pm:

Of course it is silly, would I post nonsense.... Kiss

You do.

So, muso o dearest of the dearest, Huh

, is the statement
"

And one third of ALL that's ALL manmade CO2 emissions have gone up into the atmosphere since 1998.

" actually true or untrue?

Huh

What percentage of the CO2 release was absorbed by the earths oceans?

What is the change in mean temperature for the earths entire surface?

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 138015 Gender:	Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns Reply #31 - Sep 24^th, 2013 at 10:57pm greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 24^th, 2013 at 9:02pm: 'yes', or 'no'? Surely it's not that hard. Any disciples have the balls to answer?
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Chimp_Logic

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Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Reply #32 - Sep 24^th, 2013 at 10:59pm

perceptions_now wrote on Sep 24^th, 2013 at 1:35pm:

Ajax wrote on Sep 20^th, 2013 at 2:42pm:

More bullsh!t...........!!!!!!

In 2005 they said that the arctic would be ice free by 2013.

If we don't take action in the next five years.

Ross Garnaut said it would never rain in Australia again....!!

And then we had the years 2011 & 2012.

Polar bears will soon be extinct, yet their numbers have grown from 25000 to 32000 in the last 10 years or so.

That's why we don't hear about polar bears anymore....???

BTW that photo.......FFS....???

CO2 is colorless.....you cannot see it coming out of the stack....????

That looks like (steam) water vapour from boilers.

Still trying to scare everyone sh!tless aren't you......????

You do realize that the article, that started this thread, was reputedly derived for comments by the IEA, which could not possibly be considered as a natural ally of the IPCC???

The IEA head honcho's following comments are of interest, at least to some? -

"Birol said those need to be cut and instead a price needs to be levied on carbon.

Only when "dirty" fuels become more expensive, he said, will governments follow through on their commitments to increase energy efficiency."

Sweden has had a price on carbon for almost 25 years. It is currently hovering around the $140 per tonne mark. Pretty high hey?

Swedish carbon emissions are down 8% ON 1990 LEVELS.

Did you get that? DOWN 8% ON 1990 LEVELS.

the Swedish economy has also grown nearly 50% during this period.

Why do you believe that a carbon price and emission trading scheme will destroy your beloved socialist corporate welfare economic insanity?

You have a lot to answer for batman

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Chimp_Logic

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Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Reply #33 - Sep 24^th, 2013 at 11:19pm

muso wrote on Sep 24^th, 2013 at 8:01pm:

It's about as certain as you can possibly get.

I suspect that you have come across the term emissions intensity or a quantitative indicator that relates carbon emissions per growth in GDP?

Very interesting spin approach by the AGW fossilized deniers.

This indicator can actually decrease during a period of increasing NET carbon emissions depending on what is happening with economic growth indicators like the GDP.

I am sure the environment and the earths fever will take into account the fluctuations in one of its species internal artificial indicators.

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muso

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Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Reply #34 - Sep 25^th, 2013 at 7:29am

The argument I have against that, is that some countries are doing very well both in terms of wealth and the use of renewable technology. You cited Sweden as an example. Sweden is a very good example (and I'm sure that you appreciate their past reliance on nuclear fission that helped them along that road)

Premise # 1.Nobody wants to be poor.

I think that's the main stumbling block that leads to all these meticulously constructed arguments that, although patently false and mind-numbingly superficial, are aimed at dismantling any attempt to divert from the status quo of financial growth.

In the same way, salmon will always swim upstream to spawn regardless of the fact that they will die in the process.

If we have any chance of transitioning to renewable technology, it must preserve wealth. Is renewable technology compatible with wealth and financial growth?

Of course it is, but as long as we have the deep greens who'd rather weave (and smoke) hemp and sing Kumbaya, then there will remain an obstacle to that goal. Those people are the biggest single obstacle to the continuation of civilisation, and they are every bit as bad as denialists, if not worse.

Our best chance of survival is to create wealth while pursuing clean technology. - and guess what? I like having the benefits of a market economy. I like technology.

This is where I differ with many posters, but I think that the key to success is environmental capitalism, where capitalism is just an extension of natural processes.

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« Last Edit: Sep 25^th, 2013 at 7:51am by muso »

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greggerypeccary Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 138015 Gender:	Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns Reply #35 - Sep 25^th, 2013 at 8:03am muso wrote on Sep 24^th, 2013 at 8:01pm: It's about as certain as you can possibly get. Is there any possibility at all that AGW may not be happening? 'yes', or 'no' ?
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Ajax

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Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Reply #36 - Sep 25^th, 2013 at 8:42pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Sep 24^th, 2013 at 10:52pm:

So, muso o dearest of the dearest, Huh

, is the statement
"

And one third of ALL that's ALL manmade CO2 emissions have gone up into the atmosphere since 1998.

" actually true or untrue?

Huh

You bet your inflated red arse it is............?????

Quote:

What percentage of the CO2 release was absorbed by the earths oceans?

What is the change in mean temperature for the earths entire surface?

Have a look here banana breath............!!!

http://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1379999189/0

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1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery & prison" Regas Feraeos

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# Gold Member Offline A fool is certain: an ignorant fool, absolutely so Posts: 2603	Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns Reply #37 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 10:20am greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 25^th, 2013 at 8:03am: muso wrote on Sep 24^th, 2013 at 8:01pm: It's about as certain as you can possibly get. Is there any possibility at all that AGW may not be happening? 'yes', or 'no' ? Still trolling, young simpleton? What are the risks?
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perceptions_now

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Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Reply #38 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 5:35pm

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 25^th, 2013 at 8:03am:

muso wrote on Sep 24^th, 2013 at 8:01pm:

It's about as certain as you can possibly get.

Is there any possibility at all that AGW may not be happening?

'yes', or 'no' ?

The answer you're looking for, is YES and it is a logical answer, for various reasons!

That said, let's change the question a little and ask -
"is it likely that Climate Change is Real and that on the balance of probabilities, humanity has impacted & continues to impact on the directions of that Changing Climate?

And again, the logical answer is YES!

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perceptions_now

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Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Reply #39 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 6:00pm

Ajax wrote on Sep 24^th, 2013 at 2:57pm:

perceptions_now wrote on Sep 24^th, 2013 at 1:35pm:

You do realize that the article, that started this thread, was reputedly derived for comments by the IEA, which could not possibly be considered as a natural ally of the IPCC???

The IEA head honcho's following comments are of interest, at least to some? -

"Birol said those need to be cut and instead a price needs to be levied on carbon.

Only when "dirty" fuels become more expensive, he said, will governments follow through on their commitments to increase energy efficiency."

Are you sure about that....??????

Quote:

The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) was established by the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) and the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) in 1988. Its main objective was to assess scientific, technical and socio-economic information relevant to the understanding of human induced climate change, potential impacts of climate change and options for mitigation and adaptation. The IPCC has completed four assessment reports, developed methodology guidelines for national greenhouse gas inventories, special reports and technical papers. For more information on the IPCC, its activities and publications, please see the IPCC homepage.

The IPCC National Greenhouse Gas Inventories Programme was managed from 1991 by the IPCC WG I in close collaboration with the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) and the International Energy Agency (IEA) until its transfer to the IPCC's Task Force on National Greenhouse Gas Inventories (TFI) based in Japan in 1999.

http://www.ipcc-nggip.iges.or.jp/

The IEA has been around since the "Oil Crisis of the early 1970's" and its bias is towards the "BIG ENERGY CONSUMERS/PRODUCERS & OLD ENERGY (FOSSIL FUELS)!

The IPCC has been around since the late 1980's and its bias is to "protect the climate against the human impacts of CO2, which are largely derived from Fossil Fuels"!

And, because the IPCC had the IEA manage one of its Energy progams for a few years, ending in 1999, you think that the IEA would agree with the IPCC, to the detriment of its natural constituency, in BIG Energy Consumers & Producers???

Well, all I can say is, I know where the IPCC Bias is, I know where the IEA's bias is and I'm pretty sure I know where your Bias is pointing to!
And frankly wherever your Bias may be coming from, your Logic is a bit Batty!

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muso

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Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Reply #40 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 6:27pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Sep 24^th, 2013 at 6:24pm:

So, muso o dearest of the dearest, Huh

, is the statement
"

And one third of ALL that's ALL manmade CO2 emissions have gone up into the atmosphere since 1998.

" actually true or untrue?

Huh

It's close enough if you exclude CO2 from land use changes.

Chimp_Logic wrote on Sep 24^th, 2013 at 10:52pm:

What percentage of the CO2 release was absorbed by the earths oceans?

Roughly 30% to date, or 167 GtC.

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« Last Edit: Sep 26^th, 2013 at 6:39pm by muso »

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Reply #41 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 6:36pm

# wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 10:20am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Sep 25^th, 2013 at 8:03am:

muso wrote on Sep 24^th, 2013 at 8:01pm:

It's about as certain as you can possibly get.

Is there any possibility at all that AGW may not be happening?

'yes', or 'no' ?

What are the risks?

The situations involving exposure to danger.

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Reply #42 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 6:44pm

muso wrote on Sep 25^th, 2013 at 7:29am:

The argument I have against that, is that some countries are doing very well both in terms of wealth and the use of renewable technology. You cited Sweden as an example. Sweden is a very good example (and I'm sure that you appreciate their past reliance on nuclear fission that helped them along that road)

Premise # 1.Nobody wants to be poor.

I think that's the main stumbling block that leads to all these meticulously constructed arguments that, although patently false and mind-numbingly superficial, are aimed at dismantling any attempt to divert from the status quo of financial growth.

In the same way, salmon will always swim upstream to spawn regardless of the fact that they will die in the process.

If we have any chance of transitioning to renewable technology, it must preserve wealth. Is renewable technology compatible with wealth and financial growth?

Of course it is, but as long as we have the deep greens who'd rather weave (and smoke) hemp and sing Kumbaya, then there will remain an obstacle to that goal. Those people are the biggest single obstacle to the continuation of civilisation, and they are every bit as bad as denialists, if not worse.

Our best chance of survival is to create wealth while pursuing clean technology. - and guess what? I like having the benefits of a market economy. I like technology.

This is where I differ with many posters, but I think that the key to success is environmental capitalism, where capitalism is just an extension of natural processes.

If we have any chance of transitioning to renewable technology, it must preserve wealth. Is renewable technology compatible with wealth and financial growth?

I agree: so at some point we have to ask what wealth is, surely?!!?

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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BatteriesNotIncluded

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Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Reply #43 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 6:49pm

Chimp_Logic wrote on Sep 24^th, 2013 at 10:52pm:

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Sep 24^th, 2013 at 6:24pm:

muso wrote on Sep 21^st, 2013 at 2:16pm:

Ajax wrote on Sep 21^st, 2013 at 1:54pm:

Of course it is silly, would I post nonsense.... Kiss

You do.

So, muso o dearest of the dearest, Huh

, is the statement
"

And one third of ALL that's ALL manmade CO2 emissions have gone up into the atmosphere since 1998.

" actually true or untrue?

Huh

What percentage of the CO2 release was absorbed by the earths oceans?

What is the change in mean temperature for the earths entire surface?

I wish I knew!

Socratic method is surely the way however!! Wink

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*Sure....they're anti competitive as any subsidised job is. It wouldn't be there without the tax payer. Very damned difficult for a brainwashed collectivist to understand that I know.... (swaggy) *

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muso

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Re: Time for climate change fix running out, IEA warns
Reply #44 - Sep 26^th, 2013 at 6:51pm

BatteriesNotIncluded wrote on Sep 26^th, 2013 at 6:44pm:

I agree: so at some point we have to ask what wealth is, surely?!!?

Astute. Is this what you mean?

Quote:

Ecological economics is referred to as both a transdisciplinary and interdisciplinary field of academic research that aims to address the interdependence and coevolution of human economies and natural ecosystems over time and space.[1] It is distinguished from environmental economics, which is the mainstream economic analysis of the environment, by its treatment of the economy as a subsystem of the ecosystem and its emphasis upon preserving natural capital.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_economics

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