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muslim god allah hates women (Read 35437 times)
wally1
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Re: muslim god allah hates women
Reply #135 - Oct 16th, 2013 at 6:46am
 
Yadda wrote on Oct 15th, 2013 at 11:03pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 15th, 2013 at 9:08pm:

So, Soren, you obviously wouldn't like Joseph Smith, founder of the Church of the Latter Day Saints.   He practised Polygamy.  Then there was King Salomon who had 700 wives and 300 concubines but he was Jewish.   Grin



brian,

That King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines, is not a holy sanction, of King Solomon's conduct.



And his behaviour was NOT justified by the law of God.

Deuteronomy 17:14
When thou art come unto the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like as all the nations that are about me;
15  Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother.
16  But he shall not multiply horses to himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt, to the end that he should multiply horses: forasmuch as the LORD hath said unto you, Ye shall henceforth return no more that way.
17  Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.
18  And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests the Levites:
19  And it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life: that he may learn to fear the LORD his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them:
20  That his heart be not lifted up above his brethren, and that he turn not aside from the commandment, to the right hand, or to the left: to the end that he may prolong his days in his kingdom, he, and his children, in the midst of Israel.



God's law specifically prohibited prophets and kings from taking many wives, AND YET, prophets like David and Solomon ignored God's law, and took to themselves many wives.




1 Kings 10:26
And Solomon gathered together chariots and horsemen: and he had a thousand and four hundred chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen, whom he bestowed in the cities for chariots, and with the king at Jerusalem.
27  And the king made silver to be in Jerusalem as stones, and cedars made he to be as the sycomore trees that are in the vale, for abundance.
28  And Solomon had horses brought out of Egypt, and linen yarn: the king's merchants received the linen yarn at a price.
29  And a chariot came up and went out of Egypt for six hundred shekels of silver, and an horse for an hundred and fifty: and so for all the kings of the Hittites, and for the kings of Syria, did they bring them out by their means.

1 Kings 11:1
But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites;
2  Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love.
And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.
4  For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father.
5  For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites.
And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father.
7  Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.
8  And likewise did he for all his strange wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods.



What you mean the law of God?

Solomon came before jesus and there was no bible or gospel in solomons time.

Solomon doesn't adhere to the bible.
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Yadda
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Re: muslim god allah hates women
Reply #136 - Oct 16th, 2013 at 7:45am
 
wally1 wrote on Oct 16th, 2013 at 6:46am:
Yadda wrote on Oct 15th, 2013 at 11:03pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Oct 15th, 2013 at 9:08pm:

So, Soren, you obviously wouldn't like Joseph Smith, founder of the Church of the Latter Day Saints.   He practised Polygamy.  Then there was King Salomon who had 700 wives and 300 concubines but he was Jewish.   Grin



brian,

That King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines, is not a holy sanction, of King Solomon's conduct.



And his behaviour was NOT justified by the law of God.

Deuteronomy 17:14
When thou art come unto the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, and shalt possess it, and shalt dwell therein, and shalt say, I will set a king over me, like as all the nations that are about me;
15  Thou shalt in any wise set him king over thee, whom the LORD thy God shall choose: one from among thy brethren shalt thou set king over thee: thou mayest not set a stranger over thee, which is not thy brother.
16  But he shall not multiply horses to himself, nor cause the people to return to Egypt, to the end that he should multiply horses: forasmuch as the LORD hath said unto you, Ye shall henceforth return no more that way.
17  Neither shall he multiply wives to himself, that his heart turn not away: neither shall he greatly multiply to himself silver and gold.
18  And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests the Levites:
19  And it shall be with him, and he shall read therein all the days of his life: that he may learn to fear the LORD his God, to keep all the words of this law and these statutes, to do them:
20  That his heart be not lifted up above his brethren, and that he turn not aside from the commandment, to the right hand, or to the left: to the end that he may prolong his days in his kingdom, he, and his children, in the midst of Israel.



God's law specifically prohibited prophets and kings from taking many wives, AND YET, prophets like David and Solomon ignored God's law, and took to themselves many wives.




1 Kings 10:26
And Solomon gathered together chariots and horsemen: and he had a thousand and four hundred chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen, whom he bestowed in the cities for chariots, and with the king at Jerusalem.
27  And the king made silver to be in Jerusalem as stones, and cedars made he to be as the sycomore trees that are in the vale, for abundance.
28  And Solomon had horses brought out of Egypt, and linen yarn: the king's merchants received the linen yarn at a price.
29  And a chariot came up and went out of Egypt for six hundred shekels of silver, and an horse for an hundred and fifty: and so for all the kings of the Hittites, and for the kings of Syria, did they bring them out by their means.

1 Kings 11:1
But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites;
2  Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love.
And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.
4  For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods: and his heart was not perfect with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father.
5  For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites.
And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father.
7  Then did Solomon build an high place for Chemosh, the abomination of Moab, in the hill that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech, the abomination of the children of Ammon.
8  And likewise did he for all his strange wives, which burnt incense and sacrificed unto their gods.



What you mean the law of God?

Solomon came before jesus and

there was no bible or gospel in solomons time.


Solomon doesn't adhere to the bible.



You are mistaken.




wally,

Ever heard the word, 'Torah' ?

Google it.

"The Torah, or Jewish Written Law, consists of the five books of the Hebrew Bible....."


2 Kings 14:6
But the children of the murderers he slew not: according unto that which is written in the book of the law of Moses, wherein the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall be put to death for his own sin.



An interesting read, even for Jewish people in this forum, would be;

2 Kings 22

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Yadda
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Re: muslim god allah hates women
Reply #137 - Oct 16th, 2013 at 7:59am
 
wally1 wrote on Oct 16th, 2013 at 6:46am:

What you mean the law of God?

Solomon came before jesus and there was no bible or gospel in solomons time.

Solomon doesn't adhere to the bible.




wally,

What law of Moses, was Jesus referring to ?

e.g.

Luke 24:44
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.





There was no New Testament scripture [yet compiled] when Paul wrote this...

1 Timothy 5:18
For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

Whenever the apostles spoke of 'scripture' [in the New Testament], they were referring to Old Testament scripture.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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Re: muslim god allah hates women
Reply #138 - Oct 16th, 2013 at 9:03am
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 15th, 2013 at 4:17pm:
You do not believe the sahih hadeeth on the death penalty for apostasy, why are you selective on what sahih hadeeth you believe in?


Because you asked for a sahih hadith proving what I claim  Tongue

But the only proof I really need is the fact that you clowns don't have a damn shred of evidence to support your smears about pedophilia. Its your smear to prove, not mine to disprove.

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 15th, 2013 at 4:17pm:
Do you expect a rational person to believe Aisha hit puberty before she reached 6 years of age?


A "rational" person apparently believes without question the word of this girl that she married at age 6 and consumated the marriage at age 9. I would accept your sceptisism about her claims of when she reached puberty if you would be equally as sceptical about her claims about her age at marriage. But we know you will not. You will continue peddling the story that she was aged 6 and 9 because it suits your meme - despite the fact that this "unbelievable" girl is the only source for these ages! I on the other hand am happy to discard both claims made by a little girl - and run with the more accepted version amongst modern scholars that she was more like 16-18 at the time of marriage.

But like I said, either way it makes no dent in my case - since its your idiotic smear to prove, not mine to disprove. Its just sux for you that you trip yourself up in insisting the authenticity of some sahih hadeeth (like her age claims, and the account of her taking her dolls to Muhammad's house), but ridicule others (Aisha's puberty claim).

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 15th, 2013 at 4:17pm:
I have produced them are you deaf dumb and blind?


Seriously Baron - besides the doll hadith, and the nikah hadith - both of which I have dealt with in detail - what hadith have you produced that categorically states she had not gone through puberty at the time of consummation? The answer is zero - because no hadith exists.

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Baronvonrort
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Re: muslim god allah hates women
Reply #139 - Oct 16th, 2013 at 8:15pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 16th, 2013 at 9:03am:
Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 15th, 2013 at 4:17pm:
You do not believe the sahih hadeeth on the death penalty for apostasy, why are you selective on what sahih hadeeth you believe in?


Because you asked for a sahih hadith proving what I claim  Tongue

But the only proof I really need is the fact that you clowns don't have a damn shred of evidence to support your smears about pedophilia. Its your smear to prove, not mine to disprove.
You disagree with the sahih hadeeth on the death penalty for apostasy, why are you selective on what sahih hadith you believe?

Mo was pedo the evidence is there,of course muslims deny their prophet was a pedo, those reading this can make up their own mind on whether your piss poor attempts have refuted anything.


Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 15th, 2013 at 4:17pm:
Do you expect a rational person to believe Aisha hit puberty before she reached 6 years of age?


A "rational" person apparently believes without question the word of this girl that she married at age 6 and consumated the marriage at age 9. I would accept your sceptisism about her claims of when she reached puberty if you would be equally as sceptical about her claims about her age at marriage. But we know you will not. You will continue peddling the story that she was aged 6 and 9 because it suits your meme - despite the fact that this "unbelievable" girl is the only source for these ages! I on the other hand am happy to discard both claims made by a little girl - and run with the more accepted version amongst modern scholars that she was more like 16-18 at the time of marriage.
There are other hadeeth narrated by people other than Aisha who say she was 6 when married and 9 when dirty old pedo poked her, there are also hadeeth by Aisha saying this is true.

But like I said, either way it makes no dent in my case - since its your idiotic smear to prove, not mine to disprove. Its just sux for you that you trip yourself up in insisting the authenticity of some sahih hadeeth (like her age claims, and the account of her taking her dolls to Muhammad's house), but ridicule others (Aisha's puberty claim).
Do you think a 6 year old girl would comprehend what puberty is gandalf?
Aishas father was one of the first converts to Islam, he reluctantly gave his daughter in marriage, her parents were following Islam when she was 6 or younger so it is only you who uses this verse to claim she reached puberty so young.


Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 15th, 2013 at 4:17pm:
I have produced them are you deaf dumb and blind?


Seriously Baron - besides the doll hadith, and the nikah hadith - both of which I have dealt with in detail - what hadith have you produced that categorically states she had not gone through puberty at the time of consummation? The answer is zero - because no hadith exists.
All we have is muslims claiming 9 year old girls have reached puberty despite still having their baby teeth, in your case you claim Aisha reached puberty at 6 or younger.  Grin


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Re: muslim god allah hates women
Reply #140 - Oct 16th, 2013 at 8:33pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 16th, 2013 at 9:03am:
A "rational" person apparently believes without question the word of this girl that she married at age 6 and consumated the marriage at age 9. I would accept your sceptisism about her claims of when she reached puberty if you would be equally as sceptical about her claims about her age at marriage. But we know you will not. You will continue peddling the story that she was aged 6 and 9 because it suits your meme - despite the fact that this "unbelievable" girl is the only source for these ages! I on the other hand am happy to discard both claims made by a little girl - and run with the more accepted version amongst modern scholars that she was more like 16-18 at the time of marriage.

But like I said, either way it makes no dent in my case - since its your idiotic smear to prove, not mine to disprove. Its just sux for you that you trip yourself up in insisting the authenticity of some sahih hadeeth (like her age claims, and the account of her taking her dolls to Muhammad's house), but ridicule others (Aisha's puberty claim).





So from this it follows that you would be happy to marry off your own daughter, aged 6-9, to a 50 years plus  Muslim imam as long as she has reached puberty and the old man was well regarded in the 'overwhelmingly law-abiding Muslim community'.

You have no issue with your OWN daughter, today, following in Aisha's footsteps.





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Re: muslim god allah hates women
Reply #141 - Oct 16th, 2013 at 9:24pm
 
Soren wrote on Oct 16th, 2013 at 8:33pm:
So from this it follows that you would be happy to marry off your own daughter, aged 6-9, to a 50 years plus  Muslim imam as long as she has reached puberty and the old man was well regarded in the 'overwhelmingly law-abiding Muslim community'.

You have no issue with your OWN daughter, today, following in Aisha's footsteps.



...
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: muslim god allah hates women
Reply #142 - Oct 16th, 2013 at 9:41pm
 
You seem to confuse the Arabic/Muslim nikah (engagement) of 1400 years with the current Western understanding of marriage.


A nikah (engagement) ceremony conducted with a girl did not become a marriage as Westerners understand it until the girl became an adult.


Marriage for females upon attaining adulthood was common practice across cultures throughout nearly all of human history.

An example is given in the Catholic Church's teaching that Mary married 90 year-old Joseph when she was 12.

Christians accepted this for nearly 2000 years.








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Re: muslim god allah hates women
Reply #143 - Oct 16th, 2013 at 9:57pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 16th, 2013 at 9:24pm:
Soren wrote on Oct 16th, 2013 at 8:33pm:
So from this it follows that you would be happy to marry off your own daughter, aged 6-9, to a 50 years plus  Muslim imam as long as she has reached puberty and the old man was well regarded in the 'overwhelmingly law-abiding Muslim community'.

You have no issue with your OWN daughter, today, following in Aisha's footsteps.



http://truedemocracyparty.net/wp-content/uploads/strawmanargument.jpg

So you wouldn't let your 9 year old daughter marry a 50 year old imam with a few wives, even if she has reached puberty? Totally in accordance with Muhammed's practice, mind.
No?
Mohammed a role model no longer? Or not for you in particular?


How about your 15 year old daughter? OK to marry off to a 50 year old holy man? As a father, you would give her to him?







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Re: muslim god allah hates women
Reply #144 - Oct 16th, 2013 at 10:04pm
 
True Colours wrote on Oct 16th, 2013 at 9:41pm:

Arabic/Muslim nikah (engagement) of 1400 years





I invite you to stick that up your arse.  If you want to smuggle some "Arabic/Muslim nikah (engagement) of 1400 years" into contemporary Australian life, you might as well start shoving it now.

Otherwise I do not see the point you are making - Islam is either relevant or irrelevant.



You need to understand Australian society and law now, not harken to "Arabic/Muslim nikah (engagement) of 1400 years" ago.

A 50 year old with 10 wives diddling a 9 year old is not a man to be emulated here and now.




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Re: muslim god allah hates women
Reply #145 - Oct 17th, 2013 at 6:51am
 
Soren wrote on Oct 16th, 2013 at 9:57pm:
So you wouldn't let your 9 year old daughter marry a 50 year old imam with a few wives, even if she has reached puberty? Totally in accordance with Muhammed's practice, mind.
No?


It is not Muhammad's practice - a point expalined ad-nauseum, but which you singularly refuse to comprehend.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Re: muslim god allah hates women
Reply #146 - Oct 17th, 2013 at 11:19am
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 16th, 2013 at 8:15pm:
You disagree with the sahih hadeeth on the death penalty for apostasy, why are you selective on what sahih hadith you believe?


Its a question you need to ask yourself. You have spectacularly failed to understand what is going on here. You see, I am perfectly happy to disregard the authenticity of any of the hadeeth in question - including the puberty-before-consummation one. It makes not a speck of difference to my case - which is merely to say that the smear that Muhammad was a pedophile is completely unfounded. I don't need to produce any evidence to demonstrate that - merely allude to the complete lack of evidence to make your case. But still, you did insist that I produce a Sahih hadith from sunna.com showing that Aisha had already gone through puberty. So I did-  just to play along with your little games.

So the hadith does nothing to dampen my case - which again is merely to demonstrate that you have no a shred of evidence to base your smear - but it does severely hurt your case. See, you are the one relying on hadeeth to support your case - namely the doll story and the age of Aisha. Assuming these are all in the 'sahih' category (which I think they are), then you look kinda stupid saying "look here - a sahih hadith 'proving' that Aisha was prepubescent at time of consummation" and at the same time saying "but we can disregard this other sahih hadith that clearly states she was post-pubescent long before consummation". Thats your problem because you call up hadith to make your case - whereas I don't.

But of course if we had a hadith narrated by Aisha stating that she was prepubescent at the time consummation, somehow I don't think we'd hear you lecturing us about the unreliability of a little girl claiming to know when she went through puberty now would we?  Tongue

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 16th, 2013 at 8:15pm:
All we have is muslims claiming 9 year old girls have reached puberty despite still having their baby teeth, in your case you claim Aisha reached puberty at 6 or younger.


Is there some reference to her having baby teeth? Where? I have not heard of this.
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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Re: muslim god allah hates women
Reply #147 - Oct 17th, 2013 at 12:19pm
 
Soren wrote on Oct 16th, 2013 at 9:57pm:
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 16th, 2013 at 9:24pm:
Soren wrote on Oct 16th, 2013 at 8:33pm:
So from this it follows that you would be happy to marry off your own daughter, aged 6-9, to a 50 years plus  Muslim imam as long as she has reached puberty and the old man was well regarded in the 'overwhelmingly law-abiding Muslim community'.

You have no issue with your OWN daughter, today, following in Aisha's footsteps.



http://truedemocracyparty.net/wp-content/uploads/strawmanargument.jpg

So you wouldn't let your 9 year old daughter marry a 50 year old imam with a few wives, even if she has reached puberty? Totally in accordance with Muhammed's practice, mind.
No?
Mohammed a role model no longer? Or not for you in particular?



Muslims do say Mo is a role model for all times and not just 7th century Arabia.


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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.
 
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Re: muslim god allah hates women
Reply #148 - Oct 17th, 2013 at 12:36pm
 
polite_gandalf wrote on Oct 17th, 2013 at 11:19am:
Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 16th, 2013 at 8:15pm:
You disagree with the sahih hadeeth on the death penalty for apostasy, why are you selective on what sahih hadith you believe?


Its a question you need to ask yourself.
I am not a muslim i think Islam is bullshit barfed up by a 7th century desert bandit, i dont belive in any of it,i think all religions are bullshit

You have spectacularly failed to understand what is going on here. You see, I am perfectly happy to disregard the authenticity of any of the hadeeth in question - including the puberty-before-consummation one.
If you believe that hadith then you believe Aisha reached puberty before her marriage to Mohammad at age 6 which most reasonable people will think is absurd.

It makes not a speck of difference to my case - which is merely to say that the smear that Muhammad was a pedophile is completely unfounded. I don't need to produce any evidence to demonstrate that - merely allude to the complete lack of evidence to make your case. But still, you did insist that I produce a Sahih hadith from sunna.com showing that Aisha had already gone through puberty. So I did-  just to play along with your little games.
Yes and when sahih hadeeth say kill apostates why are you reluctant to believe those?

So the hadith does nothing to dampen my case - which again is merely to demonstrate that you have no a shred of evidence to base your smear - but it does severely hurt your case.
You have one hadith with a 6 year old girl saying she had reached puberty and nothing else, do you think a 6 year old girl would comprehend what puberty is?

See, you are the one relying on hadeeth to support your case - namely the doll story and the age of Aisha. Assuming these are all in the 'sahih' category (which I think they are), then you look kinda stupid saying "look here - a sahih hadith 'proving' that Aisha was prepubescent at time of consummation" and at the same time saying "but we can disregard this other sahih hadith that clearly states she was post-pubescent long before consummation". Thats your problem because you call up hadith to make your case - whereas I don't.
If i disregard all hadith narrated by Aisha we still have others saying Mo the fat old dwarf porked a 9 year old wife.
Quote:
Abdullah said-
The profit married Aisha at 6 and broke her in age 9, and he passed away when she was 18.
www.sunnah.com/urn/1261950
www.sunnah.com/bukhari/67/93


But of course if we had a hadith narrated by Aisha stating that she was prepubescent at the time consummation, somehow I don't think we'd hear you lecturing us about the unreliability of a little girl claiming to know when she went through puberty now would we?  Tongue
We have other hadeeth that are not narrated by Aisha confirming when Mo first porked her, only muslims claim a 9 year old girl reached puberty to justify your pedo profit, we dont need the hadeeth by Aisha to confirm when Mo p[orked her there are other sahih hadeeth.

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 16th, 2013 at 8:15pm:
All we have is muslims claiming 9 year old girls have reached puberty despite still having their baby teeth, in your case you claim Aisha reached puberty at 6 or younger.


Is there some reference to her having baby teeth? Where? I have not heard of this.
9 year old girls have baby teeth do you ignore medical science to justify Mo banging his 9 year old wife?

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Re: muslim god allah hates women
Reply #149 - Oct 17th, 2013 at 2:10pm
 
Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 17th, 2013 at 12:36pm:
I am not a muslim i think Islam is bullshit barfed up by a 7th century desert bandit, i dont belive in any of it,i think all religions are bullshit


The age at which Muhammad consummated his marriage with Aisha is not religion, it is historical fact - unless you want to argue that Muhammad and/or Aisha and/or their marriage never happened. But obviously you are not, since you wouldn't be able to make this smear.

So the issue then is what historical evidence are we looking at to determine her age, and whether or not she was prepubescent at the time of consummation? And there we have the inconvenient fact (inconvenient for you, that is) that you are relying solely, 100% on hadeeth to build your case that a) Aisha was aged 6 and 9 between betrothal and consummation and b) that she was prepubescent at time of consummation. The exact same sources, as you might recall, that you previously rubbished some time ago as wholly unreliable given that they were written some 200 years after the death of the Prophet.

So where does that leave us Baron? I'll tell you where - you can go one of two ways: 1. be consistent with your previous position on hadeeth, and disregard all hadeeth as unreliable historical sources - at which point the entire basis for your case that Muhammad had sex with a prepubescent 9 year old - goes out the window. Or 2. If you have changed your mind about the historical validity of hadeeth - at least in regards to sahih hadeeth, then you must be consistent and accept that ALL sahih hadeeth are valid historical sources - not just the ones that (you think) supports your smears against islam. And when a sahih hadith comes along which directly refutes your version of Aisha's marriage, you can't simply say "no we have to ignore that". Its also fairly important that you find at least one hadith that actually clearly states that she was prepubescent at the time of consummation. So far you have provided precisely zero.

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 17th, 2013 at 12:36pm:
You have one hadith with a 6 year old girl saying she had reached puberty and nothing else, do you think a 6 year old girl would comprehend what puberty is?


trust me, a girl knows when she goes through puberty  Roll Eyes

The only thing dubious about this hadith is the claimed age. I think its a bit of a no-brainer that she would remember when she went through puberty, and that she would remember that she was still living with her parents (ie not having sex with the Prophet) at the time. But of course, as we both know, it doesn't matter one iota to whether or not the case that the Prophet was having sex with this girl before she reached puberty: it is your bullsh!t claim, and you have to prove it. So far you have produced not one shred of evidence to support it. thats all that matters - any hadith that contradict this claim is just an added bonus.

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 17th, 2013 at 12:36pm:
If i disregard all hadith narrated by Aisha we still have others saying Mo the fat old dwarf porked a 9 year old wife.


Grin you have lost track of what you are arguing already. Prepubescent remember? No one is disputing she was 9 (at least not in this discussion) - but whether or not she was prepubescent. You have some evidence that she was 9, but exactly zero evidence that she was prepubescent.

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 17th, 2013 at 12:36pm:
9 year old girls have baby teeth do you ignore medical science to justify Mo banging his 9 year old wife?


What? Thats your argument? Does every 9 year old in the entire history of humankind still have/had baby teeth? I thought you were making an actual point based on some actual evidence. Well I won't make that mistake again!
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A resident Islam critic who claims to represent western values said:
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Outlawing the enemy's uniform - hijab, islamic beard - is not depriving one's own people of their freedoms.
 
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