Australian Politics Forum - Abbott's carbon move likened to HIV denial

MOTR

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Abbott's carbon move likened to HIV denial
Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 2:34am

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TONY Abbott has been likened to South African leaders who once claimed HIV did not cause AIDS.

The comparison, by British process engineer Nilay Shah, was reported in The Times of London and reflects the strong interest internationally in the decision to scrap the carbon tax.

Professor Shah, who specialises in modelling low-carbon technologies, made the comparison when launching a report that said the world needed to spend $2 trillion a year by 2050, or 1 per cent of GDP, to limit global warming to 2C above pre-industrial levels.

The Times report said politicians such as the newly sworn-in Prime Minister would be judged as harshly by future generations as those who questioned the medical evidence on AIDS.

"There's an interesting parallel with South Africa in the 90s, where political capital was being made out of HIV denial," Professor Shah said. "Those people must now regret what they did. I suspect that some of the politicians (now arguing against rapid cuts in emissions) will still be around in the mid-2030s and will reflect that they didn't do enough on climate change."

Mr Abbott has said the Coalition government will scrap the carbon tax and spend billions of dollars on direct measures.

He has said he accepts that "climate change is real, and I accept that mankind is making a difference, and I absolutely accept that we need a strong and effective policy to deal with it".

Australia's decision to scrap the carbon tax has come at an inconvenient time for climate-change campaigners, ahead of the release this month of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change updated report.

There is robust international debate about why climate-change models have overestimated actual temperatures.

- See more at: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/policy/abbotts-carbon-move-like...

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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Verge

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Re: Abbott's carbon move likened to HIV denial
Reply #1 - Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 7:01am

While Abbotts denial is a concern, I dont like people using such emotive and graphic comparisons in order to discredit those they disagree with.

If you want to be respected in your field of profession, just debate the facts.

The true message gets lost as people focus on the drama instead.

He could have said abbotts belief in climate change is likened to a teenage boys best method of contraception is the pull out method, but it just doesnt have the same impact does it as the one used above.

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And why not, if you will permit me; why shouldn’t I, if you will permit me; spend my first week as prime minister, should that happen, on this, on your, country - Abbott with the Garma People Aug 13

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MOTR

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Re: Abbott's carbon move likened to HIV denial
Reply #2 - Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:17am

Verge wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 7:01am:

While Abbotts denial is a concern, I dont like people using such emotive and graphic comparisons in order to discredit those they disagree with.

If you want to be respected in your field of profession, just debate the facts.

The true message gets lost as people focus on the drama instead.

He could have said abbotts belief in climate change is likened to a teenage boys best method of contraception is the pull out method, but it just doesnt have the same impact does it as the one used above.

It's an important analogy. Politicians and political parties need to be told their inaction will come with a heavy political price. Abbott's legacy and the credibility of his party will be trashed beyond repair if he does not take the threat of global warming seriously.

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 74740 Gender:	Re: Abbott's carbon move likened to HIV denial Reply #3 - Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:20am I'm actually surprised the poms give a rats ...... Whilst I don't necessarily agree with the analogy, they do make a good point.
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Innocent bystander Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4220 Gender:	Re: Abbott's carbon move likened to HIV denial Reply #4 - Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:20am Thankfully its all a great big hoax and we don't have anything to worry about.
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salad in Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 5941	Re: Abbott's carbon move likened to HIV denial Reply #5 - Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:45am Thanks professor Shah. Got anything that might contradict the IPCC's latest volte-face?
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MOTR

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Re: Abbott's carbon move likened to HIV denial
Reply #6 - Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:49am

Innocent bystander wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:20am:

Thankfully its all a great big hoax and we don't have anything to worry about.

Abbott will have to take responsibility for fostering this type of ignorance. When the seriousness of this problem becomes unavoidable, people will ask who deliberately fed the public's ignorance. Abbott has symbolically banished Science from the ministry, closed the government body responsible for informing the community about the science of climate change, and is now seeking to dismantle the only mechanism that can efficiently reduce our emmissions of greenhouse gases.

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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progressiveslol Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17029	Re: Abbott's carbon move likened to HIV denial Reply #7 - Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:50am These AGW loons will try anything to scare the pants off you, call you names until you submit, make you lose employment to shut you up and make you lose funding. Might as well add in the pal-review system in order to over power you. AGW loons are nothing but stalinist inspired frauds.
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MOTR

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Re: Abbott's carbon move likened to HIV denial
Reply #8 - Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:53am

salad in wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:45am:

Thanks professor Shah. Got anything that might contradict the IPCC's latest volte-face?

What volt-face. Are you talking about the misinformation coming from the Daily Mail and then regurgitated uncritically by the Australian.

In case you missed it the Australian has printed a small correction.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MeddlesomPriest/status/381258223413510145/photo/1/lar...

Quote:

* CLARIFICATION: An earlier version of this story contained errors that have been corrected. The earlier version said the IPCC had dramatically revised down the rate of global warming over the past 60 years. In fact, the new rate of 0.12C every decade is almost the same as the IPCC's 2007 figure of 0.13C every decade over the 50 years to 2005. The report was based on a British media article that has since been corrected. The earlier version also said incorrectly that the IPCC conducted its own computer modelling. That error was made in the production process.

See more at: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/health-science/we-got-it-wrong-on-warming-s...

For those who have forgotten, this is how the Australians's Graham Lloyd, breathlessly started his article on the IPCC.

Quote:

THE Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's latest assessment reportedly admits its computer drastically overestimated rising temperatures, and over the past 60 years the world has in fact been warming at half the rate claimed in the previous IPCC report in 2007.

It seems despite the correction the initial article has served it's purpose of seeding doubt.

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Hunt says Coalition accepts IPCC findings

"What does this mean? It means that we need to do practical things that actually reduce emissions."

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John Smith

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Re: Abbott's carbon move likened to HIV denial
Reply #9 - Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 9:11am

MOTR wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:53am:

salad in wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:45am:

Thanks professor Shah. Got anything that might contradict the IPCC's latest volte-face?

What volt-face. Are you talking about the misinformation coming from the Daily Mail and then regurgitated uncritically by the Australian.

In case you missed it the Australian has printed a small correction.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MeddlesomPriest/status/381258223413510145/photo/1/lar...

Quote:

* CLARIFICATION: An earlier version of this story contained errors that have been corrected. The earlier version said the IPCC had dramatically revised down the rate of global warming over the past 60 years. In fact, the new rate of 0.12C every decade is almost the same as the IPCC's 2007 figure of 0.13C every decade over the 50 years to 2005. The report was based on a British media article that has since been corrected. The earlier version also said incorrectly that the IPCC conducted its own computer modelling. That error was made in the production process.

See more at: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/health-science/we-got-it-wrong-on-warming-s...

For those who have forgotten, this is how the Australians's Graham Lloyd, breathlessly started his article on the IPCC.

Quote:

THE Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's latest assessment reportedly admits its computer drastically overestimated rising temperatures, and over the past 60 years the world has in fact been warming at half the rate claimed in the previous IPCC report in 2007.

It seems despite the correction the initial article has served it's purpose of seeding doubt.

some people are easily fooled.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Innocent bystander

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Re: Abbott's carbon move likened to HIV denial
Reply #10 - Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 9:36am

MOTR wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:49am:

Innocent bystander wrote on Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 8:20am:

Thankfully its all a great big hoax and we don't have anything to worry about.

Abbott will have to take responsibility for fostering this type of ignorance. When the seriousness of this problem becomes unavoidable, people will ask who deliberately fed the public's ignorance. Abbott has symbolically banished Science from the ministry, closed the government body responsible for informing the community about the science of climate change, and is now seeking to dismantle the only mechanism that can efficiently reduce our emmissions of greenhouse gases.

Don't need Abbott to tell me its all a bunch of bullsh#t, even the most basic of research and fact checking shows what a load of crap it is. Grin

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salad in

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Re: Abbott's carbon move likened to HIV denial
Reply #11 - Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 9:55am

MOTR, in case you hadn’t noticed until now the poster boy from the AGW Scare ‘Em Department has been forced out of his well-remunerated job because of his woeful predictions. Those predictions were drawn from the information gathered and compiled by the IPCC. You are asking me to treat the IPCC’s reports as beyond question because the IPCC lends a certain cachet to its reports and is after all the veridical authority on the global warming/climate change/rising seas topic. A wax nose such as yourself may be drawn to this new religion but remember it’s your religion not mine. Others have difficulty with the AGW religion.

Quote:

The IPCC under the Microscope

The charter of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) is

"... to assess on a comprehensive, objective, open and transparent basis the scientific, technical and socio-economic information relevant to understanding the scientific basis of risk of human-induced climate change, its potential impacts and options for adaptation and mitigation. IPCC reports should be neutral with respect to policy.".

This make it a high-profile single-focus organization whose existence depends on its own reports. In other words it has a vested interest in promoting claims that would guarantee its funding and justify its continued existence.

This alone would be reason enough to closely examine its procedures and claims but the situation is made worse by the involvement of governments. These governments not only fund the IPCC but apparently accept its claims without question and allocate funding for climate research on the basis of those findings, then repeat the process when the next IPCC Assessment Report draws on the findings of that government-sponsored research to support its hypothesis.

Shouldn't you also be suspicious of an organization that seeks to imply (or fails to correct false perceptions) that
- it is impartial when it is clearly not,
- that its authors and reviewers have no vested interest when most do,
- that its climate models are accurate when they are not,
- that all reviewers support the IPCC's fundamental claims when very few explicitly do so
- that its authors have a wide range of opinions and experience when many work together or have co-authored papers together
- that all its authors support the critical claim when many merely reported on observations and far more others had to work from the assumption that the claim was correct?

Here are 50 articles that seriously question the credibility and integrity of the IPCC's activities and claims.

See even more in the left column of my main page.

http://mclean.ch/climate/IPCC.htm

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The ALP, the progressive party, the party of ideas, the workers' friend, is the only Australian political party to roast four young Australians in roof cavities. SHAME! SHAME! SHAME!

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MOTR Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6646	Re: Abbott's carbon move likened to HIV denial Reply #12 - Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 10:31am Whatever, salad in. Can't you do any better than post stale propaganda.
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Fit of Absent Mindeness Gold Member Offline We need more fits of absent mindedness Posts: 1622 Brisbane Gender:	Re: Abbott's carbon move likened to HIV denial Reply #13 - Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 7:32pm Are you paying attention yet? Of course conservatives don't care - they'll all be dead by the time it has taken hold.
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Rider Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2669 OnTheRoad Gender:	Re: Abbott's carbon move likened to HIV denial Reply #14 - Sep 22^nd, 2013 at 7:48pm ^^ desperate much.. About time Australians told these twats from wherever they are, who ever they are, that we actually don't care what they think and they can stick their opinions in their pipes and smoke them.
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