Australian Politics Forum - Abbott's carbon move likened to HIV denial

longweekend58

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Re: Abbott's carbon move likened to HIV denial
Reply #60 - Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 5:27pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 5:20pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 5:12pm:

Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 2:25pm:

[quote author=unbiased_view link=1379781242/36#36 date=1379909559]She does not hold patents to her work, and does not make rash statements to garner publicity. Grants are not made to individuals, and they have to be accounted for in every aspect of the research, so your statements are somewhat on the naive side don't you think?

As with 99.9% of climate scientists, they just happen to be saying something, that for whatever reason you don't want to agree with.

Quote:

Incidentally, the elitist scum bit sounds more like Mr Grey the Anarchist. My daughter in fact spent nine years working hard to get her doctorate from sixteen years old onward, so I hardly think she can be referred to as elitist.

As I said Kudos, I'm well aware of the self discipline required for such work, she is a credit to you & her mother.

Quote:

Well not by anybody who isn't a socialist, unionist muppet, or a freaky anarchist.

Ironically the only people I've heard use the word ELITIST as a derogatory term for well educated are republicans in America & idiots here in this country.
It was a FOX News standard for quite a while.
Hardly socialist let alone anarcist, just another example of conservative double-think.

'Climate scientist' is an interesting term. If you are an economist or a paleontologist who supports ACC then you are a climate scientist. But if you are a geologist, atmospheric physicist or environmental expert, but question ACC, then you are not.

Exactly where did I post that?

Anyone who works in the field of climate with a degree I would consider a climate scientist.
An economist who believes in CC is smart but not scientist.

A geologist who disagree's well I think your a hero, nodding heads are boring & fill me with fear, I look forward to dissenters that actually know what they are on about, although I will caveat that with I want to know who is paying for them.

Just as you believe 99% of CC scientists are lying & believe deniers can be bought as well.[/quote]

I would be the first to concur. However, you are the only one on here that I have ever heard concede that the ACC hysteric side can be bought. I remember one quote from and eminent climate scientist who when asked her opinion started with "not that I no longer have to rely on government grants for my income I can proclaim my own opinion and position...' And then went on to repudiate climate change. Try being a government official or a university researcher (in any discipline) and declare you are a sceptic. your job will be over.

A more even-handed assessment of the consensus of opinion on climate change would rednr a very different outcome. I have worked with dozens of environmental experts including a few at the absolute top of their field. You know how many subscribe to ACC??? not one. a few will grant some of it but no one accepts it all. and most surprisingly is the way in which they cheerfully say that most feel the same... until they need to get grants and promotions...

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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Dsmithy70

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Re: Abbott's carbon move likened to HIV denial
Reply #61 - Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 5:33pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 5:27pm:

However, you are the only one on here that I have ever heard concede that the ACC hysteric side can be bought.

The days of integrity & principle are long gone.

We are in the times of fame & self.

Have you ever wondered why great civilizations past have died?

Hubris & self absorption, The "WEST" is now in those times.

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REBELLION is not what most people think it is.
REBELLION is when you turn off the TV & start educating & thinking for yourself.
Gavin Nascimento

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longweekend58

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Re: Abbott's carbon move likened to HIV denial
Reply #62 - Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 5:35pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 5:25pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 5:20pm:

and you think governments don't do the same thing?

How quaint, you think governments still control nations.

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 5:20pm:

I see in ACC a global hysteria supported by little more than a few data points but overwhelmed but an absolutely refusal of the climate as a whole to budge outside its normal trajectory.

Your opinion & your entitled to it

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 5:20pm:

Seas rise by 50mm. so wat? they've been 100m higher and lower in the past. Temperatures rise by 0.7 degrees??? so what/ The MVP was 3-4 degrees warmer and the little ice age 2-3 degrees cooler. extreme weather is actually slightly LOWER tha the average of the last century.

No problem in a world with under a billion, problem is now days we have 8 billion & rising rapidly.

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 5:20pm:

This is a massive global hysteria and future generations will study just how it happened - and how it ended. It is an embarrassment to us all to be so gullible and so arrogant and to swallow the patently false.

Again IN YOUR OPINION

Which goes against the vast majority of science.

Its a big gamble to take with your children's future, just to save a few bucks & keep oil/gas & coal as the preferred energy sources.

its not a gamble at all. It isn't as if the evidence is even remotely convincing, never-mind compelling. There is zero evidence(literally) to find ANY CLIMATE ASPECT that has gone outside the bounds of historic levels or heading there. I know climate models predict death and destruction etc but they are only models and even the IPCC and other eminent commentators admit that the 23 major climate models have been off by a very large margin.

The argument that we have to radically alter everything we do because of predictions that have a near 100% failure rate is ludicrous.

TEMPERATURE CHANGES: epic failure
SEA LEVEL CHANGES: epic failure
ICE CAP melting: epic failure
EXTREME WEATHER increases: epic failure
AUSTRALIAN DROUGHTS: epic, epice, massive failure
GLACIAL RETREAT: failure

and on and on it goes.

why should I take the slightest notice of a hypothesis that fails each and every experimental outcome?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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longweekend58

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Re: Abbott's carbon move likened to HIV denial
Reply #63 - Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 5:38pm

Dsmithy70 wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 5:33pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 5:27pm:

However, you are the only one on here that I have ever heard concede that the ACC hysteric side can be bought.

The days of integrity & principle are long gone.

We are in the times of fame & self.

Have you ever wondered why great civilizations past have died?

Hubris & self absorption, The "WEST" is now in those times.

an interesting point but I note that that argument plays to my side of the debate.

Mind you, I think the long-anticipated decline of the West has been oversold. Our economies continue to boom and then slide back only to boom again. In the meantime the rest of the world is either hopelessly poor by their own hand or so mired in corruption that they will never move forward. I agree the west is in decline but we are a crap-load in front of the west. As long as Asia remains stuck in the corruption-first and democracy by name only mould, the Asian Century wont be starting any time soon.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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John Smith

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Re: Abbott's carbon move likened to HIV denial
Reply #64 - Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 5:39pm

Innocent bystander wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 3:44pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 3:19pm:

#, this is a familiar tune that Innocent Bystander often sings ... he makes claims and then when you ask him to substantiate them, he comes back with either, 'you wouldn't be interested'(the fact that you ask means nothing apparently) or his other favourite is 'I've put them up in the past, go find them' .....

One answer you will never get from him, however, is actual proof of his comments.

First one has to be able to critically analyze information, that leaves you out jonny, which is why attempting to educate you is a waste of your time and mine Wink

As for # he is patently not interested in fact checking his own information, otherwise he would check the claim for his self and not rely on me, when someone told me about the bogus consensus I decided to check it out myself to see if they were right and f#ck me dead they were.

you have a talent for making up crap so as to not prove your comments ....

no one has asked you to educate me, this is where you go wrong ... don't try to educate anyone, who the bugger made you the teacher?

Instead make your claim and support it with proper evidence, if you have the proper evidence no one can dispute your claim ... it's simple really.

It's easy to say they were right, but without supporting evidence, your just pissing in the wind.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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longweekend58

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Re: Abbott's carbon move likened to HIV denial
Reply #65 - Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 5:47pm

John Smith wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 5:39pm:

Innocent bystander wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 3:44pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 3:19pm:

#, this is a familiar tune that Innocent Bystander often sings ... he makes claims and then when you ask him to substantiate them, he comes back with either, 'you wouldn't be interested'(the fact that you ask means nothing apparently) or his other favourite is 'I've put them up in the past, go find them' .....

One answer you will never get from him, however, is actual proof of his comments.

First one has to be able to critically analyze information, that leaves you out jonny, which is why attempting to educate you is a waste of your time and mine Wink

As for # he is patently not interested in fact checking his own information, otherwise he would check the claim for his self and not rely on me, when someone told me about the bogus consensus I decided to check it out myself to see if they were right and f#ck me dead they were.

you have a talent for making up crap so as to not prove your comments ....

no one has asked you to educate me, this is where you go wrong ... don't try to educate anyone, who the bugger made you the teacher?

Instead make your claim and support it with proper evidence, if you have the proper evidence no one can dispute your claim ... it's simple really.

It's easy to say they were right, but without supporting evidence, your just pissing in the wind.

it has been patently obvious that it has been decades since you last learned anything. You listen to the ALP and ACTU and adopt their opinions and little else. I doubt you even possess the ability to think independently any more, never mind think critically.

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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#

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ignorant fool, absolutely
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Re: Abbott's carbon move likened to HIV denial
Reply #66 - Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 6:07pm

John Smith wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 3:19pm:

#, this is a familiar tune that Innocent Bystander often sings ... he makes claims and then when you ask him to substantiate them, he comes back with either, 'you wouldn't be interested'(the fact that you ask means nothing apparently) or his other favourite is 'I've put them up in the past, go find them' .....

One answer you will never get from him, however, is actual proof of his comments.

The mark of a troll.

Innocent bystander wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 3:44pm:

First one has to be able to critically analyze information, that leaves you out jonny, which is why attempting to educate you is a waste of your time and mine Wink

As for # he is patently not interested in fact checking his own information, otherwise he would check the claim for his self and not rely on me, when someone told me about the bogus consensus I decided to check it out myself to see if they were right and f#ck me dead they were.

You've got nothing. You're just trolling.

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adelcrow

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Re: Abbott's carbon move likened to HIV denial
Reply #67 - Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 6:14pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 5:47pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 5:39pm:

Innocent bystander wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 3:44pm:

John Smith wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 3:19pm:

#, this is a familiar tune that Innocent Bystander often sings ... he makes claims and then when you ask him to substantiate them, he comes back with either, 'you wouldn't be interested'(the fact that you ask means nothing apparently) or his other favourite is 'I've put them up in the past, go find them' .....

One answer you will never get from him, however, is actual proof of his comments.

First one has to be able to critically analyze information, that leaves you out jonny, which is why attempting to educate you is a waste of your time and mine Wink

As for # he is patently not interested in fact checking his own information, otherwise he would check the claim for his self and not rely on me, when someone told me about the bogus consensus I decided to check it out myself to see if they were right and f#ck me dead they were.

you have a talent for making up crap so as to not prove your comments ....

no one has asked you to educate me, this is where you go wrong ... don't try to educate anyone, who the bugger made you the teacher?

Instead make your claim and support it with proper evidence, if you have the proper evidence no one can dispute your claim ... it's simple really.

It's easy to say they were right, but without supporting evidence, your just pissing in the wind.

it has been patently obvious that it has been decades since you last learned anything. You listen to the ALP and ACTU and adopt their opinions and little else. I doubt you even possess the ability to think independently any more, never mind think critically.

What an odd statement coming from someone who parrots the Libs line no matter whose running the show and how stupid and contradictory it is Tongue

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Go the Bunnies

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#

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Re: Abbott's carbon move likened to HIV denial
Reply #68 - Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 7:33pm

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 5:35pm:

... It isn't as if the evidence is even remotely convincing, never-mind compelling. There is zero evidence(literally) to find ANY CLIMATE ASPECT that has gone outside the bounds of historic levels or heading there. ...

TEMPERATURE CHANGES: epic failure
SEA LEVEL CHANGES: epic failure
ICE CAP melting: epic failure
EXTREME WEATHER increases: epic failure
AUSTRALIAN DROUGHTS: epic, epice, massive failure
GLACIAL RETREAT: failure
...

None of which you have the remotest chance of substantiating. As I've pointed out before, assertion with no intention of substantiation is the mark of a troll.

I first became aware of the issue in the 1950s; a television program, something like this from YouTube. In the 1970s, I looked into climate science in some detail and came to the conclusion that it's so complex that I'll never be in a position to devote the resources to the study, necessary to develop a credible understanding.

My fallback position is to seek the opinion of the best qualified. Fortunately for me, there's a clear consensus.

So why are so many patently feeble minds so certain that they know better than the best qualified? My guess is that the Dunning-Kruger Effect has something to do with it.
http://alwaysquestionauthority.com/2013/07/07/critical-thinking-ignorance-begets... Quote:

The D-K Effect was frequently suggested historically, notably by Charles Darwin -

“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge”

– and Bertrand Russell -

“One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision.”

In a series of studies, Dunning and Kruger found this pattern across many skills, including reading comprehension, operating a motor vehicle, and playing chess or tennis. Apparently, those displaying the D-K Effect are so lacking in competence that they are even unaware of their incompetence, thus they tend to overestimate their level of skill and fail to recognize skill in others. Conversely, people with high levels of skill or knowledge tend to underestimate their standing relative to others. It seems that the more one knows, the more he realizes how little he knows.

To that, I would add a Confucian principle, which translates roughly: Quote:

The more a wise man learns, the more ho comes to appreciate how little he knows.

So what of longweekend58? On the evidence of his behaviour here, he probably failed to complete High School. The trolling is compensation for his inadequacies.

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MOTR Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6646	Re: Abbott's carbon move likened to HIV denial Reply #69 - Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 7:45pm I think you're on to something, #.
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longweekend58

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Re: Abbott's carbon move likened to HIV denial
Reply #70 - Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 7:54pm

# wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 7:33pm:

longweekend58 wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 5:35pm:

... It isn't as if the evidence is even remotely convincing, never-mind compelling. There is zero evidence(literally) to find ANY CLIMATE ASPECT that has gone outside the bounds of historic levels or heading there. ...

TEMPERATURE CHANGES: epic failure
SEA LEVEL CHANGES: epic failure
ICE CAP melting: epic failure
EXTREME WEATHER increases: epic failure
AUSTRALIAN DROUGHTS: epic, epice, massive failure
GLACIAL RETREAT: failure
...

None of which you have the remotest chance of substantiating. As I've pointed out before, assertion with no intention of substantiation is the mark of a troll.

I first became aware of the issue in the 1950s; a television program, something like this from YouTube. In the 1970s, I looked into climate science in some detail and came to the conclusion that it's so complex that I'll never be in a position to devote the resources to the study, necessary to develop a credible understanding.

My fallback position is to seek the opinion of the best qualified. Fortunately for me, there's a clear consensus.

So why are so many patently feeble minds so certain that they know better than the best qualified? My guess is that the Dunning-Kruger Effect has something to do with it.
http://alwaysquestionauthority.com/2013/07/07/critical-thinking-ignorance-begets... Quote:

The D-K Effect was frequently suggested historically, notably by Charles Darwin -

“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge”

– and Bertrand Russell -

“One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision.”

In a series of studies, Dunning and Kruger found this pattern across many skills, including reading comprehension, operating a motor vehicle, and playing chess or tennis. Apparently, those displaying the D-K Effect are so lacking in competence that they are even unaware of their incompetence, thus they tend to overestimate their level of skill and fail to recognize skill in others. Conversely, people with high levels of skill or knowledge tend to underestimate their standing relative to others. It seems that the more one knows, the more he realizes how little he knows.

To that, I would add a Confucian principle, which translates roughly: Quote:

The more a wise man learns, the more ho comes to appreciate how little he knows.

So what of longweekend58? On the evidence of his behaviour here, he probably failed to complete High School. The trolling is compensation for his inadequacies.

I don't have to substantiate them. that's the beauty of being a sceptic. it is YOU that is making the claims for climate collapse, not us. the job is up to YOU to prove YOUR hypothesis and it has been an epic fail as each and every one of those points has failed to materialise or are you going to pretend that the supposedly never-ending Australian drought is still continuing?

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AUSSIE: "Speaking for myself, I could not care less about 298 human beings having their life snuffed out in a nano-second, or what impact that loss has on Members of their family, their parents..."

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muso Gold Member Offline Posts: 13151 Gladstone, Queensland Gender:	Re: Abbott's carbon move likened to HIV denial Reply #71 - Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 8:10pm Postmodern Trendoid wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2013 at 11:37am: What's more important, climate change or gay rights? Hold that thought. I'll post a thread in Environment.
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